No, I'm saying that you can't suggest people haven't learned about proper planning because they prefer a free warp option on a cooldown over an option you have to pay for. It's an extraordinarily lame argument.
I suggest that HSing does not require any planning/decision making and FFXI way of home warping - does require.
What a trivial argument.
Because other MMOs...most of them since FFXI...have demonstrated that the game isn't made lacking in any way because they offer a free return option.
Which one exactly?
WAR and WoW - they both geared heavily to end-game (PvE/Arena for WoW and RvR for WAR) - with almost non-existance of middle-game progression, crafting, exploring or any other activities besides end-game PvE/PvP.
So? What does that have to do with a free warp?
Ya, and in RL you don't ride oversized chickens, use magic, or fight walking trees on your way to town. Don't bring RL comparisons into it...it's almost always a losing shenanigan.
But simple principle "You get what you pay for" - remains in both RL and MMO - maybe because people are the same in both.
Wrong, because in WoW, LOTRO, and other games, you get a free warp without paying it. You get
it, and you don't pay
If you add fast transportation without cost - it will impair travelling, and as a result - exploration aspect of game.
There's a difference between heading out to explore because you want to, and dedicating a chunk of your session to travel because you have to. It won't impair traveling...it eases
traveling, and if people want
to explore, they're free to do so.
As traveling to destination really need tweaks, and you additionally suggest making way back free and instaneous - we will see WoW type of traveling where nobody really care about travelling expenses and exploration difficulties.
That's the whole point. Not everything in a game needs to be accompanied by an obstacle. In fact, the more obstacles you build in, the smaller your playerbase will become over time.
Exploration to be an viable part of game - should incur some danger and difficulties - or it will be dull and uninteresting.
So what does danger and difficulty while exploring have to do with a pay-to-warp system vs. a free one?
Changing jobs in most games _are_ free as normally games have several slots for your twinks. What differs is that in FFXI you ultimately have number of slots equal to number of jobs, while in other games it usually limited to a lesser number. But this comes ain't free in FFXI - you need to do some quest to have "slots" for additional (advanced) jobs.
I didn't say changing jobs...I said changing builds of a character. You can create a new character in a game like FFXI and run to the nearest mog house and change to a completely different job for free. There is not (at any point) a cost associated with that job change. You can expand the list of available jobs via quests, but changing to those jobs once you've unlocked them remains free. So stop nitpicking stupid little details. Be a sport and admit that you're wrong when you say that having a game where not every basic function has a cost associated with it means the game is eventually going to bypass all content.
FFXI simply doesn't have "job builds" mechanic, besides equip-based builds - so there are no cost here.
builds, and it most certainly does.
Grinding xp to cap in FFXI didn't take much longer than getting to max level in other MMOs I've played. What made it seem like such an extended process was all the time waiting for a group.
Even now, after a lot of adjustments to exp, it takes at least twice as much to get to cap in FFXI as it is in WoW. Its not including getting to party and traveling. This even on assumption of FFXI party vs WoW solo. WoW party exping at ridiculous speed, especially with PL.
I think you're wrong. I think that the only way to gauge how long it takes to level in FFXI is to consider how much xp you need to get from 1 -> 75 on a given job and work it out based on what a reasonable average rate of xp/hour might be. If you did that, you'd find the difference isn't really all that significant.
[quote][quote]Or mix it up and itemize so that you don't have to halt your character progression while you do an extensive grind for the next "mandatory" upgrade by giving lesser alternatives that let you keep plugging away at your character.[/quote]
This depends on speed of progression. In FFXI where progression is slow, next "mandatory" upgrade becomes really mandatory and no lesser alternatives can solve it.[/quote]
Ya, and that's a problem for a lot of players. Farming for currency in an MMO should never be required
in any significant amounts in order to progress your toon. It's bad design. The same with standing in the same area in the same zone for many, many hours camping NMs. They're neat features to have, but if a game is designed around those things as being a functional necessity, the subscriber base will shrink as a result of it.
[quote]In WoW - you just usecheap and available alternatives and never bother about "mandatory" progress. And there will be no middle - because either you need/forced to min-max or not.[/quote]
That's right, because inserting significant, involuntary roadblocks into the progression process is bad design. It's been proven bad design repeatedly. Unless an MMO developer decides ahead of time that they're creating a product aimed exclusively for the hardcore market, those roadblocks will shrink their subscriber base. That means they make less money, which translates to a less successful product, and no business in their right mind needlessly shrinks their income for the sake of "flavor".
[quote][quote]So you didn't like chocobos, airships, WHM teleports or warp items in FFXI?[/quote]
I like them, but they are usually available after a certain period of playtime when it is expected that you already finished some part of learning curve, exploration, quests/missions and thus game now offer you an easining on your travel.[/quote]
So in other words, you're just talking out of your *** when you say that faster and easier methods of travel ruin a game, because you had your chocobo license, airship pass, access to WHM teleports and warp items long before you could have possibly explored every zone in Vana'diel.
[quote]It's like giving some sort of free of pay HS at level 30 for everyone after rigorous quest - i am not against such solutions, and some sorts of travel is particulary done in this way (airships, tavnasian ring etc). But not for free, for everyone, and at level 1.[/quote]
Is it...is it so you could get to level thirty and do this "rigorous" quest and then run into the middle of a group of lowbies and use your zomfg uber item of free warp to enhance your e-peen? Is that what it's about? I fully appreciate and respect that you enjoy the grind aspects of FFXI. I wish you a great deal more enjoyment from that game if that's what you want. In this case however, we're talking about a new game that the devs have mentioned will be suited more to those players who are not
interested in epic grinds in order to progress their character and achieve anything worthwhile. In that specific concept, perpetual items on a cooldown granted very, very early in the game make absolute sense.
[quote]Unlike general opinion that "easy is good" - you should actually have a challenge to make thing interesting. Self-entertaining, which is primary issue with "too easy, too casual" playstyle - never last long - so it is necessary to add grind at some point of time - and every game does, even as popular in casual audience as WoW. And, as it seen, the only viable (i.e. interesting from the major playerbase) part of game is that requires grind and massive time sink.[/quote]
Pffft...time sink does not entail challenge.
Godwars MUD gameplay, beeing not available to replicate 100%, are very close to Arena PvP in Wow. You can reach cap level in 2-3 weeks, spend week to gain basic equip and shift focus entirely to Arena. You character progression will become self-sustanable by Arena and quite low relatively to other parts of game. But Arena PvP mostly not for your character progression, it is progression of you and your status as PvP player.
No, Arena PvP is not something most people do for progression. They do it because they really enjoy it, and only maybe 5% of the people who do it ever really progress at all. It's even been tuned to discourage people from milking Arena for gear that they want to use in a PvE setting. WoW arena PvP gives the rewards to the people who are successful, and if you aren't winning substantially more matches than you're losing, you get very, very little.
I'll say it again: time sink does not entail challenge, and time-sink is the antithesis of what SE has announced in terms of their goals for FFXIV. I'm not going to argue with you about things to change or not change in FFXIV, but your point of view is directly contrary to SE's stated intentions. Edited, Jul 2nd 2009 2:44pm by AureliusSir