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#252 Jul 05 2009 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent
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456 posts
You are suppose to get a warp scroll (small effort), you are suppose to use a warp cud (assuming you can), theres many things you can do that requires the same time cut with small amount of effort.

Lol you said a cooldown time is effort, (small cooldown time at that lol). There is no effort in a cooldown time, effort would be doing a quest to get such an item (then I wouldn't care).

You cannot name 1 agruement that I have said that was "retarded", so stop pulling stuff out of your ***. If you think anything that was said on here was retarded (stuff me or you said), then you need to get a concept on life has many philosophies. This has nothing to do with FFXI, or WoW, or any other game (I dont know why you keep bringing games up). This could be my first MMO ever and my philosophy would be the same effort=reward (even if its small effort), as in this could be your first MMO ever and your philosophy could be the same.

You know nothing about keeping casual players, if you think casual players would leave because you have to complete a quest to obtain free warp, then you are fooling yourself. You think casual people left ffxi because they had to pay CP for a warp, or buy a warp cudgel? (I know you seriously don't think that). They left because a lot of other things was hard for casual players (SE has gotten better).

You have no clue if you don't think they already attracted casual users with "less of a grind". This in itself has attracted many casual players, but that also doesn't mean a free warp you start off with. Like I said if you think casual players left because you had to pay 750CP to warp, or buy a warp cudgel, then you are funny.

Edited, Jul 5th 2009 5:32pm by HocusP
#253 Jul 05 2009 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
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New players do not have access to scrolls or a cludge. We should punish them for being new or lower leveled.

That is a bad philosophy.

Here is a good philosophy: Everyone has a way back to their home when they finish their quest/grind/farming/etc. It will encourage people to go do something. If you only have 2hrs to play but half of it is wasted (key word: WASTED) by travel, what are you going to do? Obviously something else that's more accessible.


Accessibility and convenience is GOOD. People don't walk places when they have a car because it is more convenient. It is more rewarding to walk, but people don't have 15hrs to waste.
#254 Jul 05 2009 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
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456 posts
New players have access to getting conquest points to get a warp scroll (not extremely new but fairly soon). New players can't get chocobos either in ffxi terms (the level 20 and quest is effort), that would make travel faster, that doesn't mean they should. Have you ever heard as you progress through the game you unlock things? As in more ways to travel (airships after mission rank etc), as in more ways to get back (more cp for warp scrolls, and warp cud), as in you get stronger, more jobs (advanced jobs level 30), yes that is what progress means.

People don't magically get a car either (somebody is paying for it), people don't magically get an endless supply of gas either (somebody is paying for it). That was a very bad example, because a car takes effort. That just lets me know you didn't understand much of the thread, I am all for more ways and fast ways back home, I would love 20 ways to warp back home, as long as they come with some price (even if its as small as CP).



Edited, Jul 5th 2009 5:41pm by HocusP
#255 Jul 05 2009 at 1:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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3,416 posts
Assault Staging Points. Cut the bs travel, get to the point, when done gtfo without silly fees. Works for me, and certainly encourages people to do them assaults. Haven't seen anyone complain about the system; that should tell us something.
____________________________
SE:
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#256 Jul 05 2009 at 1:53 PM Rating: Good
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11,576 posts
HocusP wrote:
You cannot name 1 agruement that I have said that was "retarded",


You 'should' have to pay for something with no reason as to why = retarded argument.

Restricting basic accessibility for casual players in a way that doesn't hurt hardcore players is a good idea for no apparent reason = retarded.

Free warp item on a cooldown means people might explore in a way that's different from your idea of the right way to explore means that kind of functionality is bad = retarded argument.

You're unable to address the concept of cost scaling relative to available time.

You're unwilling to acknowledge that virtually every MMO that has been released since FFXI has included free return warps for all classes on a cooldown for a reason.

I say don't restrict or penalize the casual player over something so basic as a fast trip home and your 'fair' solution is for the casual player to log in the field until they've ground enough to pay for the trip back.

FFXI is the only MMO I've played where you have to pay for that return home. It's also the only MMO I've played where setting yourself up to minimize the penalty for death (ie. switching to low level job) and then ganking yourself to get home was/is a common practice. It's the only game I've played where people justify their own preference for needless timesinks with the ridiculous argument that that's how it "should" be, despite the impact it has on the playerbase as a whole. It's the only MMO I've played where people walk around all puffed up talking about how "hard" the game is because they waste so much of their time in it instead of actually enjoying the content.

I'm astounded by your hypocrisy in admitting that if you were given the free warp option you would use it, despite your apparent conviction that doing so isn't what a person "should" do. You avoid the most fundamental parts of the argument and dismiss them as trivial (ie. how would it hurt the hardcore player?) when that's what the entire discussion is about: who would it hurt and who would it help? If it would hurt anyone/everyone, you'd have an argument. It wouldn't. If it would help one group and hurt another, you might have an argument, but it wouldn't. It would help the hardcore player as well as the casual player, with the primary difference being that it would help the casual player a lot more.

Those are the arguments. Those are the arguments you avoid or try to dismiss because despite all that, you still hold that your malformed view on how things "should" be is more important than how things are.

And that, my good man, is why your argument is retarded.

Find a clue yet?


Edited, Jul 5th 2009 2:58pm by AureliusSir
#257 Jul 05 2009 at 2:49 PM Rating: Default
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456 posts
You "should not" have to pay for something because other games dont make you. = retarded

It is not restricting anything, it just requires a small amount of effort. I dont know about other games but in ffxi you could go home by just dieing (I dont think in other games you could), this doesn't mean every game should have this.

Exploring...Mindlessly

Yes a free warp might do this, and you have acknowledged this but you don't see anything wrong with exploring mindlessly. That doesn't make my agruement retarded because I do see something wrong with mindlessly exploring, its just two different opinions.

Once again what other games have doesn't matter, no one is going to play them other games just because they have free warp.

You keep saying restrict or penalize the casual players, when it is not doing either. All it is doing is requiring the same effort out of everybody. A quest later on, or CP, does not restrict or penalize anyone. Explain how requiring a quest to obtain such an item, is penalizing and restricting casual players. I bet you cannot think of anyway it is so you should just skip that. They don't only make quest for hardcore players, they make quest for all kinds of players (casual included).

Once again you use timesink when there are many things in the game that cuts down the same amount of time, with a small effort. You always skip that point also... A timesink is forced upon you, not when you have many other methods to cut the same amount of time just requiring effort...

Im not being an hypocrite, I believe you should be penalized in some form, this doesn't mean if something is free i'm not going to use it. You are telling a 100% lie, if you say you always end up doing what you should be doing.

You get a clue, your points are retarded... if you was talking about less growth grind, and faster events to make casual players comfortable the yes, but something so small as free warp because you don't want to do anything for it...(lol)... and only excuse for this is other games have it...(lol). Game can be more casual without this, game can be casual even if effort is required for everything. Game doesn't have to be giving free stuff to be casual, unless your thoughts of "casual" is all wrong.




#258 Jul 05 2009 at 3:35 PM Rating: Good
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11,576 posts
HocusP wrote:
YOnce again what other games have doesn't matter, no one is going to play them other games just because they have free warp.


But if they have played other games and FFXIV doesn't have that baseline function, they're going to notice.

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You keep saying restrict or penalize the casual players, when it is not doing either.


It is restricting them. Cost = restriction. Casual players are the most affected by it.

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All it is doing is requiring the same effort out of everybody.


Bull. sh*t.

If you're hardcore and you go out grinding for six hours and you want the trip home, you've had six hours out in the field to accumulate currency to pay for the one trip home. If you're casual and you've got one hour to play/session, unless you want to log in the field and/or walk back, you've got that one hour (minus travel time) to earn the same amount of currency as the hardcore guy for the same trip back at the end of the session. That's what I mean when I say cost scaling relative to available time. In this case, you're talking a trivial cost for the hardcore that can represent a not-so-trivial cost for the casual. You're skewing the system in favor of the hardcore, and if you're not able to connect that skewing in the favor of the hardcore in FFXI as directly opposing what SE has said about what they want in FFXIV, nothing will teach you. You are, ergo, too dense for this discussion.

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You've used A quest later on, or CP, does not restrict or penalize anyone.


Not later on. No cost. No restriction. IT'S A BASELINE FUNCTION.

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Once again you use timesink when there are many things in the game that cuts down the same amount of time, with a small effort. You always skip that point also... A timesink is forced upon you, not when you have many other methods to cut the same amount of time just requiring effort...


A timesink is a timesink as a timesink. Timesink A sucks bawls. Timesink B simply sucks. "I'll take time sink B, Bob! That sounds so much better!! kyuk!!"

ffs...

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Im not being an hypocrite, I believe you should be penalized in some form, this doesn't mean if something is free i'm not going to use it. You are telling a 100% lie, if you say you always end up doing what you should be doing.


Penalized. A penalty. Would not a penalty be something you associate with having made a mistake or doing something wrong? Penalty aka corrective action aka if you don't want the penalty, don't do it anymore? That's what a penalty is. Please don't tell me you want to argue the definition of penalty. Please. "Okay boss, if I'm penalized for traveling 30 minutes in one direction in order to do what I enjoy, I guess that means I'm not supposed to go do what I enjoy, right?"

Do you understand why we're taught that in RL we shouldn't be expected to get something for nothing? Because someone else had to spend the time and/or money to provide that something we're getting, so to be good sports and fair in our dealings with other people we should be prepared to equally compensate them for what they give to us. It's not an obscure principle. There's a very specific reason, and that reason does not in any way apply to your dealings with an NPC in a game. Do you think the family of an NPC in a game is going to starve because he doesn't sell enough warp scrolls? The whole "you shouldn't expect something for nothing...ever" argument doesn't apply. People will go out and develop their characters via direct progression and/or gear because those are rewards for playing the game, and they like playing the game. Travel is a necessary evil in an MMO that can be either entertaining (ie. exploring/enjoying the scenery) or dull as **** (ie. just trying to get somewhere to do what you actually enjoy). Savvy MMO developers know this, so they incorporate ways to make it partially voluntary.

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You get a clue, your points are retarded... if you was talking about less growth grind, and faster events to make casual players comfortable the yes, but something so small as free warp because you don't want to do anything for it...(lol)... and only excuse for this is other games have it...(lol). Game can be more casual without this, game can be casual even if effort is required for everything. Game doesn't have to be giving free stuff to be casual, unless your thoughts of "casual" is all wrong.


No, my ideas of casual are realistic. Yours are not.


Edited, Jul 5th 2009 4:37pm by AureliusSir
#259 Jul 05 2009 at 4:20 PM Rating: Default
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456 posts
Quote:
Penalized. A penalty. Would not a penalty be something you associate with having made a mistake or doing something wrong? Penalty aka corrective action aka if you don't want the penalty, don't do it anymore? That's what a penalty is. Please don't tell me you want to argue the definition of penalty. Please. "Okay boss, if I'm penalized for traveling 30 minutes in one direction in order to do what I enjoy, I guess that means I'm not supposed to go do what I enjoy, right?"


No my idea of a penalty in the sense, was for taking the easy way out of exploring. As in the penalty for taking the easy way in killing bosses (by zerg or over killing), is a lot of people don't get rewarded. You could do it this way but it would take longer to get everyone a reward rather then if you did it in a harder but smaller group. Instead we are talking about exploring (mindlessly exploring) so the penalty is the small effort or price it costs to warp back home.

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If you're hardcore and you go out grinding for six hours and you want the trip home, you've had six hours out in the field to accumulate currency to pay for the one trip home. If you're casual and you've got one hour to play/session, unless you want to log in the field and/or walk back, you've got that one hour (minus travel time) to earn the same amount of currency as the hardcore guy for the same trip back at the end of the session. That's what I mean when I say cost scaling relative to available time. In this case, you're talking a trivial cost for the hardcore that can represent a not-so-trivial cost for the casual. You're skewing the system in favor of the hardcore, and if you're not able to connect that skewing in the favor of the hardcore in FFXI as directly opposing what SE has said about what they want in FFXIV, nothing will teach you. You are, ergo, too dense for this discussion.


Hello this makes no sense because (listen up), if one player (the hardcore) spent 6hours (in your example), in one area before coming home, the casual player spent 1 hour in an area before coming home. Of course the hardcore player get more because he only came home once, and by the time the casual player spent 6 hours in the same place he has came back 6 times (needing 6 warps). This makes no sense whatsoever, whats so wrong with logging there, if you make examples you have to at least use 2 people with the same common goal. If the hardcore person used warp to go back once every hour (like the casual guy if he warps back every hour), then they would require the same effort. It would be the same effort for the hardcore guy to use 6warps in 6hours, as your casual guy using 1warp every hour , so in reality its the same effort for everyone.

You are talking about a family of an Npc, like they really exist. It means nothing at all, it is a game that doesn't mean you should get stuff for free. My idea of casual is not realistic because it doesn't include free stuff like warp, yea right. We will find out when more details is released, or when the beta is released, until then you can think you know how its going to be all you want, but you dont.

You can never explain how something is a timesink if there is methods in the game that cuts the same amount of time just with some effort. Just because it is not free, doesn't mean its a timesink, free and time are two totally different things. You don't have to walk home there are things in the game that cuts the same amount of time, just for a price. Instead of saying anything about the timesink point, you talk like a kid, which I was expecting anyway (because you have nothing to say).

Edited, Jul 5th 2009 8:22pm by HocusP
#260 Jul 05 2009 at 4:45 PM Rating: Good
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11,576 posts
HocusP wrote:
No my idea of a penalty in the sense, was for taking the easy way out of exploring. As in the penalty for taking the easy way in killing bosses (by zerg or over killing), is a lot of people don't get rewarded. You could do it this way but it would take longer to get everyone a reward rather then if you did it in a harder but smaller group. Instead we are talking about exploring (mindlessly exploring) so the penalty is the small effort or price it costs to warp back home.


What is all this "mindlessly" exploring nonsense? I don't explore any differently whether I've got a warp item or not. Pathetic argument is pathetic.

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Hello this makes no sense because (listen up), if one player (the hardcore) spent 6hours (in your example), in one area before coming home, the casual player spent 1 hour in an area before coming home. Of course the hardcore player get more because he only came home once, and by the time the casual player spent 6 hours in the same place he has came back 6 times (needing 6 warps). This makes no sense whatsoever, whats so wrong with logging there, if you make examples you have to at least use 2 people with the same common goal. If the hardcore person used warp to go back once every hour (like the casual guy if he warps back every hour), then they would require the same effort. It would be the same effort for the hardcore guy to use 6warps in 6hours, as your casual guy using 1warp every hour , so in reality its the same effort for everyone.


There has to be a better solution than being forced to log in the field so that your warp costs scale in line with the hardcore guy. Period. YOU CANNOT PENALIZE CASUAL PLAY IF YOU WANT TO SAY YOU HAVE A GAME WITH CONTENT SUITED TO ALL PLAYERS, HARDCORE AND CASUAL ALIKE. We're not talking about giving casuals the same gear as the hardcore guy. We're not talking about casuals being able to progress as much in an hour as it takes a hardcore guy to do in six hours. We're talking about being able to get back to a safe hub at the end of a session. Your solution of logging in the field is...not a solution.

It's obvious that you're just...100% ignorant about how a solo-friendly casual game works, so let me give you an example.

You've got one hour to play. You head out to do your thing. It takes you 15 minutes to get where you need to be in order to do what you want. You've now got 40-45 minutes to do whatever it is you set out to do. Unless, of course, you have to run back. Now you've only got 25-30 minutes to do the same thing if you want to get back to a safe hub at the end of your session. You don't like logging out in the middle of nowhere because you may not feel like doing the same thing tomorrow (which is sort of something you would expect players be enabled to do when SE says FFXIV will be more about "do what you want" amirite?). So what functions does the game provide for you to get home? How much of that is going to cut into your time spent doing what you actually wanted to do? How much of what you earned by way of currency of any kind is going to have to go towards paying for that option? Unless your answers to those two questions are "instant" and "free", you're creating a barrier for casual players. And since we know that other games have implemented very popular features to return to your predesignated homepoint without breaking those games, is there a logical reason to keep those barriers in place in a new game?

No, there is not.

So let's look at another scenario. You've got 3 hours to play. Ideally, you'd like to join a group for something but you also don't want to take the risk of watching those 3 hours tick by and not do anything entertaining, so you put yourself into the relevant LFG tool in the game and head out for some solo goodness which just happens to take 20 minutes to reach, and requires you to travel in the opposite direction from where you would need to go if you end up finding a group. 15 minutes into your solo exploits, you get a message from someone asking if you want to join a party. Do you now pay for that return to the hub so that you can get to said party quicker, or do you ask the party to wait 20 minutes for to get back to the hub, + time to travel to where you need to be? Would a free option be a huge benefit in that scenario? (hint: nod yes...)

See, I understand that in FFXI you don't have to think about a scenario like that one. Most of the time, if someone was wanting to group for something, they would hang out in a city or cruise the zone line to the area where they wanted to party. They wouldn't head out to farm unless they were willing to blow a charge on a cudgel or a warp scroll. Another barrier. "I could go out and do this while I wait, but it'll cost me if I need to get back in a hurry." Bad. Bad game design.

Or let's say you're the hardcore type. 6 hours in a sitting is a short session for you. You start off with one objective that requires you to travel to the far corners of the world on some brief errand. Would it bother you that when you were done you could warp back at no cost and get on with the next thing on your agenda? Don't say yes...really, from a credibility standpoint, you can't afford to say yes.

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You are talking about a family of an Npc, like they really exist.


Exactly. So obviously you're not hurting people who don't exist, right? (Protip: The NPC? They don't exist either, so you're not hurting them if you're not feeding them currency all the time.)

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It means nothing at all, it is a game that doesn't mean you should get stuff for free.


It doesn't mean you should have to pay for absolutely everything, either.

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My idea of casual is not realistic because it doesn't include free stuff like warp, yea right.


No, it's not realistic because you think casual players are going to accept frivolous, pointless barriers when other MMOs have proven that they aren't necessary. Those barriers don't add a **** thing to the enjoyment factor in a game to anyone. There's plenty of room for diversity and flavor, but when we're talking about functions that are accepted as absolutely basic based on the evolution of the genre, there's really no room to **** around.

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We will find out when more details is released, or when the beta is released, until then you can think you know how its going to be all you want, but you dont.


I'm fairly certain I have a better idea of how it's going to work out than you do.

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You can never explain how something is a timesink if there is methods in the game that cuts the same amount of time just with some effort.


Ya, I can. And I have. You..sadly...are too dense to grasp it.

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Just because it is not free, doesn't mean its a timesink,


For basic functions? Yes, it absolutely does.

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free and time are two totally didnt things.


Except...if you have to pay for it, you have to take the time to earn the currency you use to pay for it, yes?

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You don't have to walk home there are things in the game that cuts the same amount of time, just for a price.


So you're taking time to do it yourself or you're taking the time to earn the currency so that you don't have to do it. Either way...time sink. In the case of the warp, unnecessary time sink. Unnecessary barrier. Unnecessary restriction. Players will know this. They will resent it.

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Instead of saying anything about the timesink point, you talk like a kid, which I was expecting anyway (because you have nothing to say).


Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

You still haven't found a clue. Something tells me you never will. So carry on..be a thick twit until release...I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
#261 Jul 05 2009 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
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456 posts
Insults are used when you have nothing intelligent to say, I see you havern't learned that yet.

You dont have more of an idea, then anybody else has. They did not release details, and until you have details you have nothing but speculation.

You don't need currency if you earn such an item from a quest like I offered, the only time would be the time used to complete the quest later on. As you progress through the games you get better ways to travel, its as simple as that, or do you want chocobos and airships and etc (assuming they are in the game), available at level 1 also?

When you say you have a game for all type of players, that doesn't mean the overall concept is thrown out. Its simple if you are using something 6times more then another person, then of course you need more effort. Like using 6 warps vs one person using 1warp, so that makes no sense whatsoever.

Just because you don't do it, doesn't mean other don't also. Somebody already said (who played WoW), that when he explored on there he never really cared and just mindlessly did it because he always knew he had a free way home. So this is an agruement if people are doing it, so you are pathetic for dismissing this because "you dont" do it.

We will see when more things are released, or at least a single detail on the topic. As of right now we have no details, you can try to spin it all you want to, but without details it is speculation. Its funny I go on every other forum (like BG for example), and there main complaint is "SE didn't tell us anything, they just want us to speculate for ourself" (I took that off a bg forum post somebody said), but you got somuch details out of broad statements. Stop pulling details out the air and saying this has to be in the game or its not casual (like stuff with no effort), because its speculation and simple not true.

Once again using hurting someone as a point to implement a feature is a retarded arguement. Many things can be added that doesn't hurt anyone, that doesn't mean it is going to be added. I said this earlier but you skipped it of course, like jumping, adding crazy races, getting extra exp for being logged out, making everything instanced, none of this hurts anyone but doesn't mean its going to be in the game either.

I'm not going to lose any sleep, because you think you are actually on the development team either. You don't know anything special about the game that we don't know, so stop acting like you do.










#262 Jul 05 2009 at 5:32 PM Rating: Good
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11,576 posts
HocusP wrote:
Insults are used when you have nothing intelligent to say, I see you havern't learned that yet.


No, they're just fun to throw in from time to time.

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You dont have more of an idea, then anybody else has. They did not release details, and until you have details you have nothing but speculation.


Yes, but my speculation is based on a more accurate perspective than yours, because I've played FFXI for close to 4 years, and I've spent the years since then playing other MMOs (mostly WoW, but I've dabbled with about half a dozen others). Your argument relies on the idea that nobody will know any better if SE retains the "nothing for nothing" philosophy they had in FFXI. They've pretty much said that won't be the case in FFXIV. If you can't read the press releases and figure that out for yourself, I've got nothing for you. I'm not here to teach literacy skills.

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You don't need currency if you earn such an item from a quest like I offered, the only time would be the time used to complete the quest later on. As you progress through the games you get better ways to travel, its as simple as that, or do you want chocobos and airships and etc (assuming they are in the game), available at level 1 also?


Again...not talking about other than the return warp. And again, if you want to discuss other travel options, you might want to consider starting another thread, because this thread isn't about those other options. You haven't offered anything by way of hint or suggestion as to when this "quest" would be obtainable. Immediately? Early levels? Mid-levels? Something tells me I don't even want to know the answer.

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When you say you have a game for all type of players, that doesn't mean the overall concept is thrown out. Its simple if you are using something 6times more then another person, then of course you need more effort. Like using 6 warps vs one person using 1warp, so that makes no sense whatsoever.


For anything other than a return to your homepoint, I'd agree. For the homepoint issue, you're wrong.

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Just because you don't do it, doesn't mean other don't also. Somebody already said (who played WoW), that when he explored on there he never really cared and just mindlessly did it because he always knew he had a free way home. So this is an agruement if people are doing it, so you are pathetic for dismissing this because "you dont" do it.


You still haven't answered why you should care about how you're going to get back after exploring. Could it be...because you don't have an answer? I think that's probably about right. I also think you'd do well to get over this "you didn't plan some elaborate scheme to get home, therefore you are just MINDLESSLY exploring!! kyuk!" I've hard more intelligent arguments from 8 year olds. ffs...

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We will see when more things are released, or at least a single detail on the topic. As of right now we have no details, you can try to spin it all you want to, but without details it is speculation. Its funny I go on every other forum (like BG for example), and there main complaint is "SE didn't tell us anything, they just want us to speculate for ourself" (I took that off a bg forum post somebody said), but you got somuch details out of broad statements. Stop pulling details out the air and saying this has to be in the game or its not casual (like stuff with no effort), because its speculation and simple not true.


You go to an FFXI site and expect those people to have a more broad amount of experience in the MMO genre such that they can comment on what sorts of things are standard in casual MMOs? Why am I not surprised?

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Once again using hurting someone as a point to implement a feature is a retarded arguement. Many things can be added that doesn't hurt anyone, that doesn't mean it is going to be added.


If it doesn't hurt them but it makes allowing them to play the game more viable, it's a pretty **** good reason to add it. Again...not talking about making progression access to gear easier...just talking about being able to get involved in the game without feeling like half their time is spent just getting ready to do what they want to do.

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I said this earlier but you skipped it of course, like jumping, adding crazy races, getting extra exp for being logged out, making everything instanced, none of this hurts anyone but doesn't mean its going to be in the game either.


I skipped it because it wasn't worth responding to. We're not talking about jumping, races, rested xp, or antyhing else. We're talking about the return home so you can get to a hub at the end of a session without having to spend more time than necessary to get there. That's all. What part of that are you having a hard time understanding?

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I'm not going to lose any sleep, because you think you are actually on the development team either. You don't know anything special about the game that we don't know, so stop acting like you do.


lol cute

You don't need to be on the dev team to read and understand. You don't need to be on a dev team to understand basic business. It helps if you want to get a pulse for what casual players want to have actually spent some time in a casual game. You, apparently, have not, ergo...you have very little foundation upon which to base your arguments.
#263 Jul 05 2009 at 6:02 PM Rating: Decent
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456 posts
You need to be on the dev team if you can take a broad statement, and turn it into exactly what will be in the game. You need to be on the dev team if you know what is going to be in the game and everybody else doesn't.

What part of "it doesn't hurt anyone" isn't a good agruement because a lot of things doesn't hurt anyone. You didn't respond because you know that was a stupid remark, and had nothing to reply too. It didn't matter what we are talking about, bottom line is there are many things that falls under "it doesn't hurt anyone" category and that don't mean they should be implemented. You had nothing intelligent to say, so you skipped it, lets be honest here.


Feeling like half your time is being spent getting there, is funny and you know it. It takes half your time to get a warp scroll? If you plan accordingly, then you won't have an issue at all.

It doesn't matter what casual MMO's have, they said aimed a bit casual and that many different types can enjoy their time. This doesn't mean they have to include every "baseline" feature most casual MMOs have, it can still be casual and require small effort.

You should care because then you have no excuse as to why you can't get back. You wouldn't have to run 15 minutes back if you would have cared about how you was going to get back before you left, that is why you should care. You should care because there could (yes could) be a consequence if you don't (even if that consequence is small). You ask anybody what they do when they plan a trip, and they will tell you they have a plan to get there, and a plan to get back.

They pretty much did not say anything about giving away free stuff, so once again you are pulling details out of thin air. Did they ever say some stuff will require no effort at all, we will be giving everyone warp free, no you are putting words in their mouth.

When you say stuff like "half their time getting their", then we are talking about other ways of travel also, because warp is about getting back not getting there. So maybe you should go on another thread, stop dismissing stuff thats is relevant because you have no answer for it. Instead of saying I have no answer (what is real for the chocobo comment), you say you should go to another thread, yet you are talking about the same exact thing.











Edited, Jul 5th 2009 10:05pm by HocusP
#264 Jul 05 2009 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
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HocusP wrote:
You need to be on the dev team if you can take a broad statement, and turn it into exactly what will be in the game. You need to be on the dev team if you know what is going to be in the game and everybody else doesn't.


I don't recall having said that it will be in the game. I do recall having said that it would be a mistake to not have that basic functionality in the game, or to include it in the game with a barrier (aka a cost).

Quote:
What part of "it doesn't hurt anyone" isn't a good agruement because a lot of things doesn't hurt anyone.


We're not talking about other things.

Quote:
You didn't respond because you know that was a stupid remark I argue like an eight year old (with half the mental capacity), and had nothing to reply too.


FTFY

Quote:
It didn't matter what we are talking about


What!?!

Quote:
bottom line is there are many things that falls under "it doesn't hurt anyone" category and that don't mean they should be implemented.


You missed the key part. It wouldn't hurt anyone, and it would be a benefit to making the game accessible to the casual player. Argue based on the entire point, not just the part of it you think you can safely address.

Quote:
Feeling like half your time is being spent getting there, is funny and you know it. It takes half your time to get a warp scroll? If you plan accordingly, then you won't have an issue at all.


Again...cost. If a hardcore player spends 750 CP for every 6000 CP he earns for a warp scroll, is that system not skewed in their favor compared to someone who has to spend 750 CP for every 1000 CP they earn? Cost scaling relative to time. Look into it.

Quote:
It doesn't matter what casual MMO's have,


Sure it does...because if SE doesn't implement something as helpful or more helpful, they're going to be in trouble with the casual playerbase.

Quote:
they said aimed a bit casual and that many different types can enjoy their time. This doesn't mean they have to include every "baseline" feature most casual MMOs have, it can still be casual and require small effort.


Not if you're talking about a basic feature like a warp home when the devs have specifically said that the game will be accessible even if you only have 40 minutes to play.

Quote:
You should care because then you have no excuse as to why you can't get back. You wouldn't have to run 15 minutes back if you would have cared about how you was going to get back before you left, that is why you should care.


Or, it wouldn't be an issue if the game provided you with a persistent solution.

Quote:
You should care because there could (yes could) be a consequence if you don't (even if that consequence is small). You ask anybody what they do when they plan a trip, and they will tell you they have a plan to get there, and a plan to get back.


This isn't about planning, it's about needless barriers. it's not like picking up a warp scroll or a cudgel requires a lengthy decision making process. It's not about the planning...it's about the presence of needless barriers.

Quote:
They pretty much did not say anything about giving away free stuff, so once again you are pulling details out of thin air. Did they ever say some stuff will require no effort at all, we will be giving everyone warp free, no you are putting words in their mouth.


Again, I haven't said anything to the effect that SE said it would be there. I have, however, said that based on what they have said, they're going to have a hard time living up to their own statements without it.

Quote:
When you say stuff like "half their time getting their", then we are talking about other ways of travel also, because warp is about getting back not getting there. So maybe you should go on another thread, stop dismissing stuff thats is relevant because you have no answer for it. Instead of saying I have no answer (what is real for the chocobo comment), you say you should go to another thread, yet you are talking about the same exact thing.


Now you've gone from twit to moron to flat out stupid. I'm not wasting any more time on you.


Edited, Jul 5th 2009 7:21pm by AureliusSir
#265 Jul 05 2009 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
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still going at it? man...

think of it this way.

since FFXIV is in FACT a FF game there are some things u can and can't have. for example you can't go around calling a warp item a hearthstone, its called a warp stone, or a warp scroll. it also has to be a consumable, hence u gota pay for it just like potions and other items. don't expect them to change this for convenience to the player. this is a FF game, and it will act like every other FF game.

just because its now a MMO doesn't mean there going to toss it all out because WoW or Aion, or "enter popular MMO name here" made XXX feature a standard in every MMO.

to further push my claim. every FF game that had a teleport/warp type spell was either at the expense of the blm or whm (giving no other class access to it) or was used thru a consumable item (al la FF12).

stop trying to break FF traditions. adjust or don't play.

this also doesn't dismiss the posibility of having dirt cheap types of warp or a cheap method of getting warp items. as i said b4 in a previous post, making warp items/stones more like FF12 where u can get them from mob drops or treasure chests and are "not common" would be a nice solution to this problem.
u want a warp out? kill a few mobs and hope one drops or while ur out with friends lot on them. doing this would give u all the warps warps u want which can be used at any time, while at the same time has requires little to no effort to gather all the while remain FF.

for those who don't like to read or like to argue the bottem line is this

Final Fantasy XIV is still appart of the Final Fantasy number series. Just because its now a MMO doesn't change the fact that it is still a Final Fantasy and it has gameplay mechanics that can not be toss away for the sake of convenience.

Edited, Jul 5th 2009 10:39pm by Leyego
#266 Jul 05 2009 at 6:44 PM Rating: Default
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You said it was a "neccessity" or they was lieing, and you implied that if its not they lied. I don't see them as being liers so to me thats like saying it will be in the game.

We are talking about other things, this thread has been through so many things. Other things is relevant because if something as small as this then where does it stop. We have talked about trends in here, we have talked about casual and hardcore, and we have talked about other games in here. Most of that has nothing to do with, will ffxiv have a free warp item with no effort or not.

Yeah you still have nothing to say, but to change my quotes with no response after. You are fighting more like a child using insults, (childlike behavior, esp insults over the internet).

You are missing the keypoint, so much other things wouldn't hurt anyone and would make the game more accessible, that doesn't mean it should be added. Like the things I have named, or everyone getting a personal dragon (mount), and being able to fly anywhere, wouldn't hurt anyone and would make the game more accessible. That doesn't mean it needs to be added, that is the keypoint you keep dodging like they are balls and you are in the center. Everyone being able to teleport (like whms), at level 1 with no effort wouldn't hurt anyone and would make the game more accessible, that doesn't mean it needs to be added.

No the system is not screwed because the hardcore player spent more time in that area, and took less trips back. Like your earlier example he spent 6 hours in the area, so he was in the area a total of 6 hours, if your casual player stays there also a total of 6 hours (through logging and continuing at other times), then they both would be using the same effort. You are trying to make an experiment (or an example), with too many independent variables. Meaning an example like that is retarded because too many things are different (not enough constants), they don't even start with a common goal (same time at a place). If you use anything 6 times more then another person then of course you have to do more for it.

They can have an easy time living up to broad statements without it. A game can be casual without that, and thats all it takes to live up to the broad statements they have made.

More insults over the internet, more childlike behavior, you have gone from tunnel minded, to childish, to flat out silly.


Like Leyego stated... Because WoW or other MMOs have this doesn't mean anything. This is FF game and they don't have to have stuff just because another game has it. Its that simple, they are making there own game, not merging with WoW or any other game, there own game = there own features (= there own philosophies).







Edited, Jul 5th 2009 10:48pm by HocusP

Edited, Jul 5th 2009 10:49pm by HocusP
#267 Jul 05 2009 at 7:01 PM Rating: Good
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Leyego wrote:
since FFXIV is in FACT a FF game there are some things u can and can't have. for example you can't go around calling a warp item a hearthstone, its called a warp stone, or a warp scroll.


That's fine. I don't care what it's called...it's more about the functionality than the name. Maldavian just likes to stir the pot a bit, but he obviously came up with a winner of a general topic this time around.

Quote:
it also has to be a consumable, hence u gota pay for it just like potions and other items.


I'm not sure what precedent you might be referencing for why it "has" to be a consumable.

Quote:
to further push my claim. every FF game that had a teleport/warp type spell was either at the expense of the blm or whm (giving no other class access to it)


Right, except in every other FF game you controlled the entire party, not just one person in it. So even if you preferred a particular character without a travel spell, you still had the character with the spell in your party (or could put them in your party if you wanted that benefit). You still had access to it...at no cost.

Quote:
stop trying to break FF traditions. adjust or don't play.


It's already been discussed elsewhere on these boards, but if you look at the full spectrum of FF games starting with the first one on the NES and going all the way up to 12, there's actually very little that SE "has" to keep in order for it to be an FF title. Chocobos, black magic, white magic, airships, "gil", significance of elements, Cid, and maybe a small handful of other things. Those are the only things you "need" in order to call it an FF title.


Edited, Jul 5th 2009 8:02pm by AureliusSir
#268 Jul 05 2009 at 7:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm not sure what precedent you might be referencing for why it "has" to be a consumable.

this will take me a while....

FF1 - Warp, Black Magic, Blm and Rdm job classes only, lvl 5 black magic.
FF2 - Teleport, White Magic, used by all classes, gained from using Teleport Tome (Consumable)
FF3 - Exit, White Magic, many jobs have access to it, must be bought (Consumable), level 3 white magic.
FF4 - Exit, White Magic, gained by leveling up.
FF5 - Exit, Time Magic, can be bought or found (Consumable), level 3 time magic.
FF6 - Warp, Must be learned thru esper. Warp stones (Consumable), requires u to find the esper.
FF7 - Escape, Learned from materia
FF8 - has no warp spell.
FF9 - has no warp spell.
FF10 - has no warp spell.
FF12 - Warp stones which are found of monsters. (Consumable)

warp is magic which is either only used by mages (not everyone), or used by everyone but u need a specific item (materia, teleport tome, buying it from shops. Consumable) to learn or required u to learn it thru some other means (esper, or leveling up. free but u had to work for it) which means it requires u to put some effort into it, not free.

since most MMO's have a warp type spell or item it made sense for SE to modify one of there spells to fit that roll. instead of warp warping u out of dungeons it was modified to warp u back to ur save point (much like other RPG on the snes that took after FF) since it makes more sense in an open world game. while at the same time using escape for dungeons only.

the whm teleport spell from the older games was used exactly like the black magic warp but since warp already warps u back to your HP then it only makes sense to either remove it or change teleport into something that takes u somewhere else.
adding them both makes sense, since instead of 1 method of travel, u now have 2. which helps in MMOs.

weither the name was Warp or Teleport, weither the function has changed or not the fact remains that the spell has to be earned and its not free.

now im not gona argue u the concept or w/e. the fact remains that u had to work for something like this.

Quote:
Right, except in every other FF game you controlled the entire party, not just one person in it. So even if you preferred a particular character without a travel spell, you still had the character with the spell in your party (or could put them in your party if you wanted that benefit). You still had access to it...at no cost.


thats a lame excuse. if u wanted a warp u could always ask the BLM or WHM in your party and they would give you one unless they were an *** about it. if u didn't invite one then thats the party leaders fault. its just like playing a normal FF game without a whitemage or blackmage.

i don't no what else u need. every game that had a warp spell made u work for it. thats not going to change.


>.< Zemzelette if only u posted sooner.....

as u can see it was never free in the sense of giving it to the player off right off the bat u always had to work for it. that will never change.

now can we finally put this thread to rest or something?

Edited, Jul 5th 2009 11:54pm by Leyego
#269 Jul 05 2009 at 7:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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God, I feel old.

Teleport, Warp and Escape have been owned by WHM, RDM, BLM, THF, BLU, Time Mage, Magus, Sage, Machinist, Knight Scholar, Devout, and Onion Knight.

Acquired by the Warp tome, was usable while wearing the item Fairy Boots and learned from the summons Fenrir, Carbuncle and Cactuar.

There were forms of Escape that ended the battle, not by running, but by destroying the enemy (without you receiving EXP). There were also a line of spells that simply had a chance to destroy the enemy (and you received EXP). Despite the fact this is all very cannon, SE wisely chose to respectively alter and avoid implementing these two types of spells. Because while they're functional in a single player game, an MMO is a completely different story.

They understand now, as they did then; the traditional needs to be balanced with the functional.



/edit:
Well, Ley, you managed to not make me feel quite so old. I like that.
You also managed to make me feel like everybody's (excuse my language) ***** again. I don't like that.

If you wanna' work for your warps, you work for your warps. You don't get your 15 minutes of fame on the traditional soapbox just to turn around and harass someone else when it comes time to pay the piper. I'd sooner give up Warp spells and Teleports completely.



Edited, Jul 6th 2009 12:16am by Zemzelette
#270 Jul 05 2009 at 8:18 PM Rating: Good
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Leyego wrote:
Quote:
I'm not sure what precedent you might be referencing for why it "has" to be a consumable.

this will take me a while....

FF1 - Warp, Black Magic, Blm and Rdm job classes only, lvl 5 black magic.
FF2 - Teleport, White Magic, used by all classes, gained from using Teleport Tome (Consumable)
FF3 - Exit, White Magic, many jobs have access to it, must be bought (Consumable), level 3 white magic.
FF4 - Exit, White Magic, gained by leveling up.
FF5 - Exit, Time Magic, can be bought or found (Consumable), level 3 time magic.
FF6 - Warp, Must be learned thru esper. Warp stones (Consumable), requires u to find the esper.
FF7 - Escape, Learned from materia
FF8 - has no warp spell.
FF9 - has no warp spell.
FF10 - has no warp spell.
FF12 - Warp stones which are found of monsters. (Consumable)


So in other words, the option to warp doesn't have to be a consumable. 6 of the 11 titles you listed don't show a consumable item.

Quote:
weither the name was Warp or Teleport, weither the function has changed or not the fact remains that the spell has to be earned and its not free.


Quote:
now im not gona argue u the concept or w/e. the fact remains that u had to work for something like this.


Quote:
Quote:
Right, except in every other FF game you controlled the entire party, not just one person in it. So even if you preferred a particular character without a travel spell, you still had the character with the spell in your party (or could put them in your party if you wanted that benefit). You still had access to it...at no cost.


thats a lame excuse. if u wanted a warp u could always ask the BLM or WHM in your party and they would give you one unless they were an *** about it. if u didn't invite one then thats the party leaders fault. its just like playing a normal FF game without a whitemage or blackmage.


Or...maybe they didn't invite one because their wasn't one available? Holy sh*t. lol

Can you imagine? Parties falling apart because there were no tanks. Parties falling apart because there were no healers. Then parties fall apart because you had a tank and healer but no RDM or BRD, and then you want to go so far as to say someone did something wrong because they didn't insist on a BLM or WHM, too?

LMAO!!! NICE!!!

It also doesn't address what happens when you're not in a party at all, whereas in standalone FF titles, you were the entire party.

Quote:
i don't no what else u need. every game that had a warp spell made u work for it. thats not going to change.


If SE implemented something where you got a perpetual warp item as part of a "Intro to Haiderin" type quest series, I'd be fine with that. As long as you're not being forced to wait until midgame to get access to it, it doesn't matter. "Here's how you move." "Here's how you trade with a player or NPC." "Here's how you fight." "Go run all the way over there and bring me back a chunk of monster *** and I'll give you this nifty item that lets you return to your homepoint once/hour." That'd be just fine.

As soon as you've progressed to the point where it's taking you longer than 10-15 minutes to get to where you need to be, that's when the item should be made available (if not sooner). Anything more than that and SE wouldn't be holding true to their "40 minutes/day" statement.


Edited, Jul 5th 2009 9:20pm by AureliusSir
#271 Jul 05 2009 at 8:32 PM Rating: Default
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On page 4:

Quote:
I don't want to see Hearths.

Why? Because I am DESPERATELY hoping that transportation is WAY better than it was in XI, so we don't need them.


Same **** thing I tried to say on page 1.

It seems people just won't be comfortable without having a magic button to send them home every 30 minutes.

I see it as taking away immersion in the world and in gameplay.

The best argument made against this was 'I think the developers have more important things to do' (stated by AureliusSir).

Well, lets assume the developers have already made a successful MMO and have been studying and testing that MMO to create their next MMO for the last 5 years.

Why do we need hearths? Transportation problems.

If there are innovative solutions to travel problems then we don't need hearths.

Last time I said this I heard 'Why reinvent the wheel' (again from AureliusSir)

FFS... The only argument for Hearthstones is 'it makes travel easy, so every MMO should have them.'

It doesn't mean that it is the end-all, be-all travel solution of every MMO that will ever be made.
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#272 Jul 05 2009 at 8:43 PM Rating: Default
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Why hasn't a post been made on summoning stones?

I like the idea of summoning stones, provided every party member has touched the stone at least once. Meaning no need to rerun to an area you have been to a ton of times if you got 2 party members there.

I always felt like I was completely displaced in WoW when my character was summoned from Darkshore to Shadowfang Keep. And then I had no idea how to get back when I first started. That's why I am for 'summoning stones only work if you have been there before'.
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#273 Jul 05 2009 at 8:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
If SE implemented something where you got a perpetual warp item as part of a "Intro to Haiderin" type quest series, I'd be fine with that. As long as you're not being forced to wait until midgame to get access to it, it doesn't matter. "Here's how you move." "Here's how you trade with a player or NPC." "Here's how you fight." "Go run all the way over there and bring me back a chunk of monster *** and I'll give you this nifty item that lets you return to your homepoint once/hour." That'd be just fine.


im perfectly fine with that. your still working for it. weither its something so small as it requires u no effort at all ur still working for it. ur not just making a character and bam u have warp.

MY problem aint with the item. its with how you recieve the item. i could careless if all u had to do was trade in a noob voucher for it your still working for it.

now that were finally on the same page u see the difference between what some ppl have been trying to tell u and with what the OP wants?
#274 Jul 05 2009 at 8:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It seems people just won't be comfortable without having a magic button to send them home every 30 minutes.


Exactly... Sounds sad to me.
#275 Jul 05 2009 at 8:49 PM Rating: Good
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The idea behind fast transportation is players spend more time enjoying the game and less time doing nothing.

Having efficient, cheap, available, and easy transportation is a GOOD thing. Other games adopt it and it is received well. No one complains that it is too easy to travel.

I am very certain FFXI will adopt a hearthstone style item, and other ways of fast and easy transportation.
#276 Jul 05 2009 at 8:55 PM Rating: Decent
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i just hope this thread stops getting the attention it doesn't deserve.


more energy should be put towards speculating new ways of traveling around the world, not a lousy warp item that would have little use if there was an efficent, fast and cheap way to get around the world while at the same time making it enjoyable.
#277 Jul 05 2009 at 8:57 PM Rating: Good
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Leyego wrote:
Quote:
If SE implemented something where you got a perpetual warp item as part of a "Intro to Haiderin" type quest series, I'd be fine with that. As long as you're not being forced to wait until midgame to get access to it, it doesn't matter. "Here's how you move." "Here's how you trade with a player or NPC." "Here's how you fight." "Go run all the way over there and bring me back a chunk of monster *** and I'll give you this nifty item that lets you return to your homepoint once/hour." That'd be just fine.


im perfectly fine with that. your still working for it. weither its something so small as it requires u no effort at all ur still working for it. ur not just making a character and bam u have warp.

MY problem aint with the item. its with how you recieve the item. i could careless if all u had to do was trade in a noob voucher for it your still working for it.

now that were finally on the same page u see the difference between what some ppl have been trying to tell u and with what the OP wants?


Trivial is trivial. Whether you're trading a "noob voucher" or finding it in your inventory when you first arrive in Haiderin isn't going to affect too many people. What I take issue with is the idea that each use should cost you something, because that's creating a barrier...a barrier that would negatively effect casual players the most when it's the casual player who relies on that function for the game to be truly accessible.
#278 Jul 05 2009 at 8:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The idea behind fast transportation is players spend more time enjoying the game and less time doing nothing.

Having efficient, cheap, available, and easy transportation is a GOOD thing. Other games adopt it and it is received well. No one complains that it is too easy to travel.

I am very certain FFXI will adopt a hearthstone style item, and other ways of fast and easy transportation.


Great post, I didn't see free used once. When you say "cheap" this is impling that it costs some kind of effort, and that is all we are asking for, no free warp for everyone as soon as they start. Requiring effort is not a barrier its simply requiring effort, even if its small effort.

Edited, Jul 6th 2009 12:58am by HocusP
#279 Jul 05 2009 at 9:03 PM Rating: Decent
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wow talk about beating around the **** bush.

this thread has lost its appeal. it leaves a bad taste.

now its just become an argument over something so trivial and retarded. how about we just wait and see? but then again i bet even that statement would get argued.
#280 Jul 05 2009 at 9:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
more energy should be put towards speculating new ways of traveling around the world, not a lousy warp item that would have little use if there was an efficent, fast and cheap way to get around the world while at the same time making it enjoyable.


I agree, I tried to start that discussion on page 1 of this thread with a suggestion of well placed camps for adventures to gain access to an AH, town travel, and basic goods.

But I was shot down by AureliusSir and his quote 'Why reinvent the wheel'.

Some people just won't be happy without a magic button.

Innovative solutions to travel problems actually require some sort of thought.

Given the already shown flying machines of FFXIV, maybe the idea of camps that populate each area are possible. I like the idea of instanced zones, where you can actually see a camp created when you progress a certain amount through the zone's quests or mobs. Maybe even the old 'tent' and 'cabin' items can make a return in an online FF.
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#281 Jul 05 2009 at 9:03 PM Rating: Decent
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As far as returning home goes, I'd prefer something that's at least a little bit of trouble so there's some small barrier for using it. One use scrolls that cost a little, whatever.

But much more than that I just want better transportation. I didn't even mind the outpost/warpstone system in XI, just needed to be more accessible, reasonable, and flexible.

Again, though, the atmosphere of FF is different from other major MMOs nowadays. Travel and appreciating the world is part of that charm. I'd appreciate a compromise where everyone gets chances (is forced) to appreciate the journey and their surroundings, but traveling doesn't become something that's a drag after the first few times.
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#282 Jul 06 2009 at 1:01 AM Rating: Good
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(Only read the first page...)

So what if the OP used an example from WoW, the idea is still a good one. But I do agree that if having this item, would make the world feel smaller, then FFXIV would be loosing something, the same thing that made FFXI great and that was the emmersion factor. It takes forever to get anywhere, but its a whole world we're living in and for it to give that feel, was just great in my eyes.

I would definately go for this however...

An auto Pilot on your very own Chocobo. You could jump on, input where you want it to take you (perhaps a menu of nearby camps or towns were other modes of transportation could be then used, and that's only if you can't get to your Mog House directly. Anyone remember trying to navigate the Jungle for the first time using Sneak and Invis? Urgh...)
#283 Jul 06 2009 at 7:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Anyone agree we should have this item in FFXIV ?

Hearthstone
Use: Returns you to your homepoint.
Cooldown: 20min
Rare/Ex


Make cool down at least 2 hours and I'll agree.
#284 Jul 14 2009 at 7:52 AM Rating: Default
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If there is a Mog house, that's where it should take you. There are enoguh ways to get to a home point already, if it follows the FFXI model.
#285 Jul 16 2009 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
gumpman wrote:
New players do not have access to scrolls or a cludge. We should punish them for being new or lower leveled.

That is a bad philosophy.
However, new players also do not have nearly as far to travel from the "startup" areas to get home on average. If I were to see some person using a warp scroll to get from one end of West Sarutabaruta to Windurst Woods I'd probably have a stroke lauging at them.

Going to some of the other contentions that have been brought up throughout this thread I have just a couple of things to say:

1) We know nothing about the setup of the geography of FFXIV.
2) We know nothing of the methods of transport they intend to introduce.
3) FFXIV is not FFXI, or WoW, or any other MMO.

That all being said... if we take FFXI as a concept baseline to draw comparisons based on SE's "past patterns" we could assume that there would be somewhat similar progression of distance from cities in relation to levelling or "progression" areas for higher level or "further progress" players. However, by that point in your character's career you also have to assume that your character will have earned some form of currency or points or whatever the going method of item acquisition is.

So... Assuming that you will have relatively small amounts of traveling to do at the beginning... One would likewise assume that it is useless to debate the 'fairness' of a new player obtaining a warp method. Also assuming that distance traveled from home progresses with "level" one can assume that a player would have obtained enough money/points/whatever to purchase some method of transportation by then.

Giving a "free" item to everyone that says "hey, don't worry about any semblance of responsibility for your travels, you can always go home with the click of a button," seems redundant to me. Yes, it's been done in some games but seriously that's no reason it has to be done in EVERY game.

Just my 2 cents.
#286 Jul 17 2009 at 9:06 PM Rating: Decent
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424 posts
To AureliusSir:

Your avatar would throw away his hearthstone the moment he realized he couldn't sell it to a vendor.

God bless Donald.

(I already threw my 2 cents into the conversation, but I just had to comment on that pic)
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Administrator Kaolian:
"Quote it correctly or don't quote it. That's called "how people get banned"..."

Actually it's called "Libel"... and only if it is fabricated, but hey, you are the admin.

AureliusSir the Irrelevant:
"They're on a tangent, but they aren't off topic."
#287 Jul 17 2009 at 9:54 PM Rating: Good
Shazaamemt wrote:
To AureliusSir:

Your avatar would throw away his hearthstone the moment he realized he couldn't sell it to a vendor.

God bless Donald.

(I already threw my 2 cents into the conversation, but I just had to comment on that pic)


"BUT IF I USE THE MOUSE TO TURN, HOW DO I CLICK ON REND?!?!"
#288 Jul 19 2009 at 5:00 PM Rating: Default
1 post
Yes, put as simply as possible if there is an easy way to return home I would use it. Is not the test of a proposed item whether players would use it. I'd like there to be a distinction between or among home points as well.
For example in my case a permanent home in my nation's center is unnecessary if we can return there by using repatriate and we can. A home point set for a particulare mission that expires with the missions completion would be very nice. A permanent home different from the one in the national center would be a great convenience and so would a choice among those home points when transporting oneself.
Jim
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