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No more 2hrsFollow

#1 Jul 01 2009 at 10:17 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm not sure if this game is going to only allow one job per character or be like ffxi where you can have any job on one character. But I would love to see 2hrs be done away with.

Most of them are never used in every day situations because no one knows if they will need it in the near future which almost never happens so they never get used.

An idea I have was to have racial ability's and they change depending on what job you have but keep there racial flavor. Like lets say a Hume's racial ability was to increase haste. If you were a mage it would decreases spell casting time to make you cast faster. or if your melee it would make you attack faster.

But my point is it shouldn't be 2hrs they should instead be made 25-30 mins tops that way more people would feel safe using there main ability without worry that right after they are done using it they will actually need it.
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#2 Jul 01 2009 at 10:27 PM Rating: Decent
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i've never liked the way XI implemented 2hrs. some of them were just totally useless in 99.9% of situations, so why even have them?

i would like to see a job's main ability be something that would be worthwile in more ways, and see the cooldown on them cut in at least half (in fact, i think 1hr cooldown is perfect)
#3 Jul 01 2009 at 10:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I somewhat like the idea of 2 hours. They have some functionality, but for the most part--as stated in the OP-they are not used. This is fine. Content isn't designed around the expectation for them to be used, so they aren't really hurting the game at all. I think they've a very strong class defining feature, even if they are mostly cosmetic. Don't tell me it's not fun to use mighty strikes, even if it isn't for a useful purpose.
#4 Jul 01 2009 at 11:31 PM Rating: Default
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Hopefully we get to choose are own 2 hour.
#5 Jul 01 2009 at 11:43 PM Rating: Good
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I like the idea of a 2hour ability that REALLY makes a difference, but isn't necessary to beat a boss.

The problem with the 2hours in FFXI is that too many of them were useless, while others were AMAZING. For example: Ninja 2hr vs Mnk 2hr.

The only problem with making 2hours what they really should be (meaning very useful overpowered abilities for 1 minute every 2hours) is that people will rely on them too much for bosses, and you will end up with groups just waiting for 2hours to retry the boss. (but really, if you are that reliant on a 2hour ability that you need to wait 2 hours to fight the boss again, you probably aren't skilled enough to take that boss).

I think 2hours are one of the unique aspects of FFXI that should be carried on in the sequel. SE just needs to iron out the details. (Seriously, Chainspell vs the old school Summon Wyvern... what the **** were they thinking)
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#6 Jul 02 2009 at 3:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Suddenly, my worst fear is that there will be no summoning class, and that everyone will be able to equip summons, and that summons will have the 2hr cooldown.
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#7 Jul 02 2009 at 4:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kharmageddon wrote:
Suddenly, my worst fear is that there will be no summoning class, and that everyone will be able to equip summons, and that summons will have the 2hr cooldown.

A part of me feels that would be a better implimentation than trying to make another SMN job... At least this way, Square would be able to recapture the original ideas of Summons being absurdly powerful attacks, which would otherwise be imbalanced in an MMO.
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#8 Jul 02 2009 at 5:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Racial job abilities would be more of a hindrance then a benefit. ex One race gets a haste boost & others don't, said race is now outright superior. I like the idea of using summons as our 2hours though.
#9 Jul 02 2009 at 5:22 AM Rating: Good
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I guess I don't mind using the summons as the 2hr abilities as much as I thought, as long as you can freely switch between them at a reasonable rate. I just want to be able to at least toy with each summon until the novelty goes away.
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#10 Jul 02 2009 at 8:04 AM Rating: Decent
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I like the 2 hour ability function, it gave every single job a flavor. Every ability in the game does not have to be designed to be used, everytime the cooldown period is up, but they all could be effective at some point in time. I remember seeing a LS about to wipe, all they have left is the nin but the hnm is at 1%, and boom nin 2hour and they win. Now this doesn't happen often, but nin 2hour was also a free warp home everytime you left out. As long as they all have some impact in the game (some was bigger than others), then it is all good with me. I don't think they should take down the cool down time, 2hours is fair enough, I don't want people spamming every 25mins (like the OP suggested). The abilities should not be the same (of course, its a new game), but they were powerful enough. You have to account for "end game", their will be bosses, and 18 people 2hours (assuming thats an alliance size still), being anymore powerful could really upset the balance of difficulty later on (especially 18 peoples 2hour ability every 25-30mins like the OP suggested).
#11 Jul 02 2009 at 10:24 AM Rating: Decent
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I would absolutely not want a race based 2hr or ability in FFXIV. The whole concept that some races couldnt do some jobs in FFXI (read: taru DD or galka WHM) was incredibly annoying. I'd much prefer that stats/abilities are tied to jobs only, with no (or very little) benefit from race.

That being said, I actually didn't mind the FFXI 2hr system. God knows i rarely used my 2hr as a BST or a BRD, but they were useful in certain instances. The crappy thing about BRD 2hr was that you had to tell that the **** was about to hit the fan in advance.
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#12 Jul 02 2009 at 11:04 AM Rating: Decent
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I would love to see 2 hours. But, one idea I've always toyed with is having a 2hr that has a function very different from your class.

Like, a Paladin would get a threatless DD 2hr instead of a Tanking one.

This way, the abilities can be very strong, but are really designed for situations where they are needed without being too OP at other times.

So, a defensive class can have the chance to put out a lot of damage so as to take out an enemy before they die. For *their* class, it would be very high DpS, but average for a DD class. So, say you are soloing and you get an add. A Paladin can survive very well (assuming he can actually get heals off), but outlasting isn't always best. Being able to quickly take out one of the two mobs may be the difference between death and survival.

And, because you will usually tank in a group as a Pal, a high-damage strike without aggro (or low aggro) won't help your specific role much, but the group in general (so they aren't OP).

What I REALLY don't want to see is something like Mighty Strikes, something dependent on your accuracy to be even slightly effective. Especially because the duration means that different weapon speeds receive better bonuses than others.
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#13 Jul 02 2009 at 11:11 AM Rating: Default
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I likke the 2 hour ablities in FF11. Its almost like our Jobs Overdrive ability. Albeit toned way the **** down. I Would like SE to Have our "2 Hour" ability Change As we play through the game. Make it so it powers up the abilities that we use the most. in other words I'd like to see an evolving ability that Tailors(Not Sure if i spelled that right) itself to how we play so that its hard to find a person whos "2 hour" is the exact same as another persons and that as you(For lack of a better word since SE says there wont be Levels in FFXIV) Level in the game the ability becomes stronger. so the same Azure lore i got at level 1 wont be the same azure lore at 75.
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#14 Jul 02 2009 at 12:05 PM Rating: Decent
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I use my 2Hrs a lot more often in small group settings than in traditional parties (even missions and whatnot). Even some of the questionable ones (Mighty Strikes, pre-Convert Chainspell, etc.) can make a huge difference in a duo or trio.

If FFXIV does have a similar mechanic, I think there needs to be a bit better balance between the classes and throughout the levels. With a handful of exceptions, they're pretty out of whack right now.

As for the summons being a 2Hr-like ability, I'd rather not see it. I always preferred the "summoning as a unique ability" FF games (FFIV, FFX, etc.) to the "everyone can do it" ones (pretty much all of them since FFVI). Mind you, that's just a flavor thing; I'm not going to be upset if FFXIV has univeral summons or anything.

Bardalicious wrote:
The whole concept that some races couldnt do some jobs in FFXI (read: taru DD or galka WHM) was incredibly annoying.


One of the best WHMs I ever grouped with was a Galka. Elvaan BLM are about the only race/job combo that's unequivocally terrible. Dumb as a bag of hammers...

Bardalicious wrote:
I'd much prefer that stats/abilities are tied to jobs only, with no (or very little) benefit from race.


I'd hate to see race become nothing but a cosmetic choice. With a few exceptions (the abovementioned Elvaan BLM) I think the current race/job interaction is pretty well-balanced. You gain a tangible benefit for staying in the "correct" field, but can also function in the "wrong" ones without too much difficulty. Also, outside of a traditional party (and I'm usually outside of a traditional party), some of the racial traits are worth more than they would be. For example: If you're duoing as a WHM, an Elvaan's higher STR, HP, and VIT make a difference, 'cause you're either in melee or riding on your partner's coattails.
#15 Jul 02 2009 at 8:24 PM Rating: Good
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I'd hate to see race become nothing but a cosmetic choice. With a few exceptions (the abovementioned Elvaan BLM) I think the current race/job interaction is pretty well-balanced. You gain a tangible benefit for staying in the "correct" field, but can also function in the "wrong" ones without too much difficulty. Also, outside of a traditional party (and I'm usually outside of a traditional party), some of the racial traits are worth more than they would be. For example: If you're duoing as a WHM, an Elvaan's higher STR, HP, and VIT make a difference, 'cause you're either in melee or riding on your partner's coattails.


I don't want the choice to be purely cosmetic, but I don't want it to make enough of a noticeable difference that it is a problem.

I love Tarutaru (and whatever they are called in XIV), and part of that is that they are the smaller, weaker race physically, but masters of magic. I never let that stop me from leveling my Taru as melee classes in XI (granted, I always tried to get the best gear if possible, so my Taru were often above-average in stats anyway).

I want there to be a noticeable difference. I don't want that difference to mean you want to pick one race over another--it should be more about personality and skill. But, it doesn't make sense for the pintsize race to punch as hard as the massive, muscle-man one.
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#16 Jul 02 2009 at 9:00 PM Rating: Decent
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The 2-hrs that I found most useful were Mighty Strikes and Hundred Fists. Mostly when we got a link...

On BST before Leave, Familiar is pretty useful. I'd always start by 2-hring an EM, keep it alive with pet food, and not have to worry about it turning on my for 30 min.

I can't say I ever saved the day with Benediction, but I've been in parties where it was looking bad, and Bene turned things around.

I liked 2-hrs... just wish they were 1/2-hr abilities, but that might make things unbalanced since some jobs (MNK) definitely had better 2-hrs.

Whether or not they should be kept depends on a lot of other things we just don't know yet.
#17 Jul 02 2009 at 9:14 PM Rating: Good
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I'd like them to keep desperation abilities but I doubt they'll use the same mechanic (2 hour timer) as FFXI. It may be something you have to build up like a Limit Break or Weapon Skill, it may be something we can use whenever we want but it does something like sap 1/3 or some denomination of MP (ala FF12) or using it may temporarily weaken you. They may even go old school and make it where we can only use it when under critical HP.
#18 Jul 02 2009 at 9:42 PM Rating: Decent
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or using it may temporarily weaken you


I actually find this to be a very appealing alternative.
#19 Jul 03 2009 at 3:47 AM Rating: Good
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I'd say since SE are looking at making the combat more fluid and faster (thank god), if they implement the equivalent of a 2hr it'll likely be on a much faster timer, I'd say 30min maximum. 2 hours is just a ridiculous time to wait to use an ability that really isn't THAT amazing, in any game. I agree that I frequently forgot all about it because of it's stupidly long timer. Especially for solo play.

Basically everything should have way faster cooldowns, people will obviously complain that it's making the game too easy but the simple solution to speeding up the rate of attacks and abilities is to make the enemies harder. Some people might say what's the point in that, as it ends up with roughly the same amount of time spent doing stuff, but ask yourself, what do you prefer? A long exciting fight or a long boring one?
#20 Jul 03 2009 at 4:42 AM Rating: Good
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Ideally I'd prefer Trance/Limit Break/Overdrive etc.
I always thought 2hrs were this, but obviously in an mmo environment things like Trance wouldn't work too well, in FFXIs gameplay at least.

Because in most cases, stuff like Trance wasn't planned and came at random, so you'd just have to take advantage of it when you would, rather then put it into your battle plan, which you do with FFXI. If they found some way to implement it though, that'd be awesome.
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#21 Jul 03 2009 at 6:25 AM Rating: Good
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Westyle wrote:
I'd like them to keep desperation abilities but I doubt they'll use the same mechanic (2 hour timer) as FFXI. It may be something you have to build up like a Limit Break or Weapon Skill, it may be something we can use whenever we want but it does something like sap 1/3 or some denomination of MP (ala FF12) or using it may temporarily weaken you. They may even go old school and make it where we can only use it when under critical HP.


That sounds very interesting.

Something I'd like (if they keep the 2h system) would be 2-3 different abilities you can chose your 2h from.
For example a Pld either becomes invincible, casts a strong AoE holy spell or enhances its armor to deal damage to attackers for some time.

If they make the abilities really usefull I wouldn't mind a 2h recast.
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#22 Jul 03 2009 at 7:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Because in most cases, stuff like Trance wasn't planned and came at random, so you'd just have to take advantage of it when you would, rather then put it into your battle plan, which you do with FFXI. If they found some way to implement it though, that'd be awesome.


The problem with Trance in an MMO comes when you are in group play. It is general practice in nearly all MMOs to do as much damage as you can without going over your tank's threat limit and taking hate yourself. Trance can make that VERY annoying--especially if you get it JUST before clicking a big ability.

Plus, that doesn't solve the problem of some Overdrives/2hrs/Trances being way stronger than others. A Mnk getting a Trance of soemthing like HFs would rock (especially if they could get it multiple times a boss fight). A thief getting theirs wouldn't. This makes game balance incredibly difficult to manage.

I also think the 2hr CD is fine. MAYBE 1 hr, but I wouldn't want to see lower than that. The point of these abilities is that they AREN'T supposed to be used a lot. The job isn't supposed to be defined by this ability.

And, while .5 hours isn't DEFINING, it does take away the fear of misusing it, which has always been an aspect of it. You want to make it count, and that makes it more special.

Especially because, with a 2 hr CD, you can only generally use it on one boss in an instance (if it has multiple ones). With a .5 hour one, you could likely use it on 2 or 3, depending on what you are doing. This can be even more unbalanced in whatever PvP play they implement.
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#23 Jul 04 2009 at 5:51 PM Rating: Default
i dunno about everyone else, but i always used 2 hour abilities in a pt, quest, or mission when it wasnt needed. i have only been in a few of those "oh ****" moments where 2 hour abilities made a huge difference. usually its to late for it to matter, or your doing a mission or quest and have a set plan for people 2 houring. also when your in one of those never-ending pts and its been like 5 hours and you didnt 2 hour at all, its a waste.

its also pretty **** awesome when you could 2 hour like 4 times in a beseiged.

kinda pointless babbling, but id like to see them in XIV

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#24 Jul 05 2009 at 2:13 PM Rating: Default
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Racial abilities in WoW are a disaster. In the end one race can be favored over another, and race just isnt something thats easy to change. I dont want to see this happen to FF14 and it causes nasty balance problems in wow. I think there should be something more closely related to limit breaks...And there should be characteristics they all have in common, to keep one from being clearly better than the other...in FFXI Blue mage 2 hour was worthless , where as PLDs was entirely useful, there should be a criteria that all have in common so they cant ust be all together better than the other.
#25 Jul 05 2009 at 3:01 PM Rating: Default
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2hr ability is only as good if it actually worth using. some of them were pointless and waiting for the 2hr reset for a ability that only last 30 seconds was redundant.

best 2hrs i ever use in a job was
1. paladin.
2. red when it came in handy.
3. white even though it was a suicide move.
4. sam.
5. smn
6. monk 2hr was bad *** especially when there more then one monk pulling blowing out 2hrs.
7. war when it does nice damage added to ws.

one i hated the most was
1. dark cause it suck *** when u miss during it use.
2. ninja cause some time ppl tend to blow up at the wrong moment, let say during the pt.
3. blm seriously suck *** i really dont care if dont lose mp, the point is by the time you try to cast another spell duration was already up.
4. bst 2hr should'nt even be a 2hr it should be the norm ability.

these are pretty much the only 2hrs i tryed out, i use other but these are the only one that come to mind the most.
#26 Jul 05 2009 at 4:51 PM Rating: Decent
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2 hours are very important and lots of battles are planned around them.
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