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In game voice chat.Follow

#1 Jul 04 2009 at 9:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Maybe the discussion has come up already, but it seems somewhere between likely and inevitable that FFXIV will have in game voice chat. Considering that to many people apps like Vent and TS are considered essential, and that SE has already implemented it in a much older game (Fantasy Earth), odds seem strongly in favor of this being a built in feature.

So I'm sure that many people won't be pleased by this for a number of reasons, but at the same time, they'll probably have to deal with it. I'm not even saying whether I'm for or against it, as all opinions are probably irrelevant by now. I just thought I'd bring it to the attention of those it hadn't occurred to yet.
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#2 Jul 04 2009 at 9:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Meh, I'd rather it not be implemented. Everything done in game can, imo, be accomplished without having to use voice chat. The linkshell I'm in right now uses teamspeak for everything, and as such linkshell chat isn't used a lot. I'm fine with it and I like to use it, but sometimes I just feel like listening to music without having voices continually ruin it.
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#3 Jul 04 2009 at 9:20 PM Rating: Good
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I'm sure it will be something you can turn on and off, and will not be mandatory.

But it will probably be one of those things you'll eventually be expected to do, and you'll be considered gimp if you don't.

What might be kind of cool is if they add some kind of voice distortion for each race, so that you don't sound exactly like yourself, and there's some uniqueness to character voices while retaining some consistency among races.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#4 Jul 04 2009 at 9:20 PM Rating: Good
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If they do implement in-game voice chat as a secondary means of communication (the primary still being text, I would hope), they would need to make it good. WoW tried implementing a similar service a few patches back. Everyone tried it because it was the new shiny toy, then promptly jumped back to Vent and Teamspeak. It was too difficult to control, too scratchy, and the overal quality was simply to low to warrant any kind of use.

If Squeenix is going to opt for this method of communication, then it will need to be quality goods. Text is popular because it is (generally) easy to understand. If the voice is crappy, then it simply won't be used.
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#5 Jul 04 2009 at 9:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd rather not have it. External programs are far better at accomplishing the task, so there is no real need or functional benefit for an in game voice chat feature. There is only the issue of convenience, and I'd prefer it to remain inconvenient for people to use voice chat.

Because of the somewhat inconvenience--having to download, install, find/buy a server--of programs like Ventrilo, I can safely avoid most of the annoying mic spam. When someone is invited to a guild or personal vent server to facilitate teamwork, there is an understand that it is a privilege, one which can be easily revoked. That understanding is not present in an ultra-convenient in game voice chat.

Edited, Jul 5th 2009 12:21am by Allegory
#6 Jul 04 2009 at 9:21 PM Rating: Good
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I remember the last time that question was asked about FFXI, SE said they preferred to have folks type things out because it gave people time to ruminate on their answers and avoid hasty potentially regrettable responses. They're right, of course.
But personally think that was just a clever way to gloss over technical issues.

Seeing as how ventrillo/teamspeak is an option either way, I'm pretty sure we'll have voicechat regardless of what SE decides to do.

#7 Jul 04 2009 at 9:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Integrated voice chat means that the devs can create more intricate content. The major obstacle is implementing something with the same quality as Ventrilo or Teamspeak, otherwise they might as well not implement it at all because everyone will gravitate to the third party options. Not only that, but PS3 users might appreciate integrated voice chat, as Vent/TS might not exactly be accessible to them. Voice chat has become a standard in MMOs to the extent that content is often tuned under the assumption that players will be using it. In a game with combat designed to "more closely resemble the real time battles that you see in other MMOs," no voice chat option might be a bit of a setback. It's all well and good to do all of your communication through text when you've often get 10 seconds or more between actions. When you're activating abilities more frequently, interrupting to type can be counterproductive.

I'm all for integrated voice chat, I just require that it be of acceptable quality for me to use it.
#8 Jul 04 2009 at 9:40 PM Rating: Good
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Doesn't matter either way to me. I'm a very quiet person in voice chat.
#9 Jul 05 2009 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'll just jump on the train of "I'd rather not"
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#10 Jul 05 2009 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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JP NA EU parties would be a little weird at times.
#11 Jul 05 2009 at 1:35 PM Rating: Default
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
Meh, I'd rather it not be implemented. Everything done in game can, imo, be accomplished without having to use voice chat. The linkshell I'm in right now uses teamspeak for everything, and as such linkshell chat isn't used a lot. I'm fine with it and I like to use it, but sometimes I just feel like listening to music without having voices continually ruin it.


yeah it actually is'nt a big deal if they put voice or not since there so many other programs you can use for this, same here i rather listen to music then hear hrs of chatter.

Edited, Jul 5th 2009 5:36pm by gaiaxzero
#12 Jul 05 2009 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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When XIV was announced JP's were already wondering if there'll be an official voice chat.. very few JP's like it, with the whole anonymity issue and all, so as a JP company I don't think SE would implement such a thing.. Not a big deal to us westerners, but to the other side of the globe yeah :D.
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#13 Jul 05 2009 at 2:31 PM Rating: Good
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I think I said this in the other thread, but there's several reasons I'm in the "I'd rather not" category.

1) In text, 10 people can talk at the same time, and you can see what they all said clearly without them having to repeat it. In voice chat, only one person can talk at any given time, and if you have 64 people in a heated battle, your ears will bleed.

2) "Say that again?" In text, I can just read it until (I hope) it makes sense.

3) "Can you hear me now?" "Barely." "How bout now?" "Barely... still." "Now?" "Nope."

4) Really really really loud guy who thinks everyone else is too quiet. Ow, my frikkin ears.

5) Guy who changed his input channel from microphone to stereo mix so he can show everyone how awesome Insane Clown Posse is by blaring the song (in crystal clear landline phone quality sound)

6) Heavy accents. No offense to anyone with an accent (mainly because EVERYBODY has an accent, seeing as it's relative), but it will be difficult for some people to understand others and will cause much confusion/disdain.

7) Chatty people. They have to talk about everything under the sun, and God forbid they take it to tells/whispers with the other person they happen to know. This is more preventable in text chat because it takes longer to talk for annoyingly extended amounts of time.

8) Guy who doesn't realize his microphone on while having a conversation with someone who just entered the room and everyone else is trying to kill the monster. (This guy, incidentally, is me. Sorry!)

9) Straight up gangsta thug. This is always the most annoying white kid you'll ever meet. They tend to avoid text chat that reflects their verbal inadequacies.

10) Unless they record every moment of audio (unlikely) GMs will be unable to enforce harassment rules.

I played years of Counter Strike and I've encountered people of every one of these kinds (Except #10, obviously, which is exempt). And while it was necessary in the fight-or-flight fast action of a first person online shooter, an MMO is much more pre-planning that requires much less emergency chat that can be handled with just text.
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#14 Jul 05 2009 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I would rather it be implemented but only if:
1. It's of quality without affecting other aspects of game play.
2. It has restrictions. Must be grouped up/linkshell equipped or be prompted to accept voice chat by a player.
3. Mute player option. As even members in the same linkshell can turn sour at times.

The reason for 2 is to keep it on a "privilege" basis. The last thing I want is a mind numbing headache when zoning into a city.

I see voice chat useful in challenging situations and speeding up game play for parties. One of the reasons I do like text chat is simply the log which makes it easy to check back what a person said in case I forget. I imagine after asking the 3rd time "what do I do?", patience would be getting short.

However this is coming from a solo casual XI player. I have no experience with voice chat.
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#15 Jul 05 2009 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
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If you can't block it without blocking all sound/music, then that's a solid reason to avoid this game at all costs.
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#16 Jul 05 2009 at 4:40 PM Rating: Default
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Archfiend BeastmenLord wrote:
I think I said this in the other thread, but there's several reasons I'm in the "I'd rather not" category.

1) In text, 10 people can talk at the same time, and you can see what they all said clearly without them having to repeat it. In voice chat, only one person can talk at any given time, and if you have 64 people in a heated battle, your ears will bleed.

2) "Say that again?" In text, I can just read it until (I hope) it makes sense.

3) "Can you hear me now?" "Barely." "How bout now?" "Barely... still." "Now?" "Nope."

4) Really really really loud guy who thinks everyone else is too quiet. Ow, my frikkin ears.

5) Guy who changed his input channel from microphone to stereo mix so he can show everyone how awesome Insane Clown Posse is by blaring the song (in crystal clear landline phone quality sound)

6) Heavy accents. No offense to anyone with an accent (mainly because EVERYBODY has an accent, seeing as it's relative), but it will be difficult for some people to understand others and will cause much confusion/disdain.

7) Chatty people. They have to talk about everything under the sun, and God forbid they take it to tells/whispers with the other person they happen to know. This is more preventable in text chat because it takes longer to talk for annoyingly extended amounts of time.

8) Guy who doesn't realize his microphone on while having a conversation with someone who just entered the room and everyone else is trying to kill the monster. (This guy, incidentally, is me. Sorry!)

9) Straight up gangsta thug. This is always the most annoying white kid you'll ever meet. They tend to avoid text chat that reflects their verbal inadequacies.

10) Unless they record every moment of audio (unlikely) GMs will be unable to enforce harassment rules.

I played years of Counter Strike and I've encountered people of every one of these kinds (Except #10, obviously, which is exempt). And while it was necessary in the fight-or-flight fast action of a first person online shooter, an MMO is much more pre-planning that requires much less emergency chat that can be handled with just text.


QFT.
#17 Jul 05 2009 at 5:16 PM Rating: Good
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There are plenty of potential problems with in game voice chat, yes, but they're all made into relatively simple fixes just by making the feature optional. So I personally don't care either way, though I like many others may keep mine turned off most of the time.

I hope it's there just for the people that want it, and I would probably use it from time to time.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#18 Jul 07 2009 at 12:50 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree with Kachi, Just make it optional - good quality voice chat and if you have it off it wont affect the music/sounds of the game.

Edited, Jul 7th 2009 1:51am by Ruam
#19 Jul 07 2009 at 2:48 AM Rating: Decent
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I'd be up for it, so long as it's optional, and I see no reason why anyone would put voice chat in that you couldn't turn off.

Most of Archfiend's post rings true to some extent, although I did start to think 'wtf is he playing? Counterstrike or something?' and, funnily enough was proved true at the end there. There's a few annoying stereotypes who turn up a lot more in chat on an FPS than on an RPG.
I think if they have it customizeable so you can restrict it to channels or teams you won't have too much confusion. Chat's a useful feature because you're not constantly having to reference text on-screen that's constantly moving while trying to fight something in a team situation. It's loads faster for a team member to tell the group to change strategy in detail over voicechat than it is in text, by which point it'll likely be too late or while typing they've neglected their combat duties.
Also bear in mind SE aren't intending on the same snail's-pace combat that XI had so you won't have time to have a full conversation between attacks this time ;)

I can see why people still use Vent or TS but some people just can't be bothered with having to install 3rd party software, it should be available if only for the more casual gamers.
#20 Jul 07 2009 at 4:05 AM Rating: Good
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I remember one reason they were against voice chat was because it also made it difficult to police problem players if they weren't using the chat to drop their f-bombs, state intents, and so on. And really, I can't see it opening the door to more 'advanced' content as, once you enter alliance settings, more voices would just add to more chaos if people have to keep speaking left and right to keep coordinated.

Just look at duel requests in WoW if you want an example of how optional content can be a pain. "Would you like to chat?" No. "Would you like to chat?" No. "Would you like to chat?" No. "Would you like to chat?" GRAH GTFO!!!! "OMG U SUK NOOB!" Plus there are some people whose voices just plain irritate me. Doubt anyone would be interested in the background noise I like to have while playing, either.
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#21 Jul 07 2009 at 5:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Archfiend BeastmenLord wrote:
1) In text, 10 people can talk at the same time, and you can see what they all said clearly without them having to repeat it. In voice chat, only one person can talk at any given time, and if you have 64 people in a heated battle, your ears will bleed.

2) "Say that again?" In text, I can just read it until (I hope) it makes sense.

You just summed up why I hate Ventrilo with a passion.
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#22 Jul 07 2009 at 5:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Do not want.
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#23 Jul 07 2009 at 5:37 AM Rating: Good
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I would rather it not be implemented, I wouldn't even want the option installed because I don't want to see End Game shells saying "No mic, no invite" I like to watch TV, listen to music, and I don't really want to hear people talk to tell you the truth.
#24 Jul 07 2009 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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Parade wrote:
I would rather it not be implemented, I wouldn't even want the option installed because I don't want to see End Game shells saying "No mic, no invite" I like to watch TV, listen to music, and I don't really want to hear people talk to tell you the truth.


Um, Ventrilo exists. Any LS/Guild that would require members to use in-game voice chat would just require Vent if there was no in-game option.
#25 Jul 07 2009 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Just look at duel requests in WoW if you want an example of how optional content can be a pain. "Would you like to chat?" No. "Would you like to chat?" No. "Would you like to chat?" No. "Would you like to chat?" GRAH GTFO!!!! "OMG U SUK NOOB!" Plus there are some people whose voices just plain irritate me. Doubt anyone would be interested in the background noise I like to have while playing, either.


Didn't FFXI implement some way to prevent people from inviting you to party? I know there were harassment issues at one point where RMT would spam invites to players to prevent them from getting into their LS's alliance. I'm pretty sure SE can make a really simple fix for this kind of thing. Don't think it's hard to make it so that you can block any incoming invites/messages from another player.

I'm in the boat that I think people generally won't care if you don't want to use it, and if they do, they'll expect you to get Vent anyway. I got on Vent for primarily social reasons with my LS, and I hardly ever used it, but there were times when it was nice to have the option.

I don't look at it as being that different from Windower. People will use it whether you give it to them or not-- might as well just give it to them. If they don't want to use it, they don't have to.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#26 Jul 07 2009 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Well the cutscenes are supposed to have voice acting in it, aren't they? Well, S-E hinted at it. I'd rather not have one of my "clan" (or whatever 14's version is called) mates yelling over the cutscenes, that ruins the game play experience in my opinion.
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#27 Jul 07 2009 at 2:24 PM Rating: Decent
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I thought about that-- I'd imagine that when you're in a VA CS it will automatically turn off all voice chat channels. I imagine it would be indicated by some symbol by your name that you couldn't hear people talking to you at the time. i.e., on the party list you have a Mute symbol by your name.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#28 Jul 07 2009 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Archfiend BeastmenLord wrote:
I think I said this in the other thread, but there's several reasons I'm in the "I'd rather not" category.

1) In text, 10 people can talk at the same time, and you can see what they all said clearly without them having to repeat it. In voice chat, only one person can talk at any given time, and if you have 64 people in a heated battle, your ears will bleed.


The idea is that enabling voice chat is a voluntary option and one that you can exempt yourself from at any time (so if, for example, you just used VC to coordinate an astounding victory against some super nasty boss and you want silence so that you can enjoy the ensuing cutscene, you can mute the channel.)

As far as large groups go, you could have the party/alliance/raid/whatever leader given access to VC admin controls to mute people who refuse to STFU after being asked to. In my last raiding guild in WoW, speaking over Vent was restricted to raid leaders and tanks for exactly the reasons you mentioned...if everyone is permitted/encouraged to yammer freely, chaos ensues and the important details that would have been good for everyone to hear get drowned out. Everyone else in the raid group was required to be on vent, but during fights the expectation was that they keep the channel clear.

Quote:
2) "Say that again?" In text, I can just read it until (I hope) it makes sense.


It depends on how much information you've got scrolling up your screen. In FFXI, you frequently have time to expand your chat log to go back and read something...not in faster paced MMOs.

Quote:
3) "Can you hear me now?" "Barely." "How bout now?" "Barely... still." "Now?" "Nope."


It happens. It's something that can't happen on a regular basis with an integrated VC system or people won't use it, but even in vent people occasionally have microphone issues. Usually, you get them sorted out once and they're fine indefinitely after that.

Quote:
4) Really really really loud guy who thinks everyone else is too quiet. Ow, my frikkin ears.


I would expect individual volume settings to be an option ;D That covers your point #5 through 9 as well ;D

Quote:
10) Unless they record every moment of audio (unlikely) GMs will be unable to enforce harassment rules.


Mute them, kick them, do whatever you have to do. WoW is an example of an MMO that functions around Ventrilo. As a general rule, people don't have the balls to beak off in voice chat the way they would via text (go figure). In those exceptionally rare cases where they do, there are solutions. I think most of us are grown-ups and can deal with those situations as they arise without needing to have a GM get involved. Just get them out of the channel so they have no choice but to continue the harassment in text chat, then report them ;D

There's also a flip side to that whole coin. I was in a party in LOTRO once where two of the others in the group were good friends of mine from in the game. One of the people in the group was a PUG member who did a really...really bad job. Terribad. So bad, in fact, that my two friends got fed up and left the party. Bad guy decides to go off in voice chat about how retarded my friends were. I listened for a while and when I had had enough, I cut him off and blasted him. Should have heard the change in his tone of voice...it went from "rah rah righteous indignation" to "uhh...uhhhh...formulating lame retort...uhhh." Unfortunate, yet highly gratifying ;D
#29 Jul 09 2009 at 4:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Dungeons and dragons online had it built in and I quit within a week. I use voice chat, but only with close friends and small groups.

Pugs - I don't want to talk to you, don't want to know you're high and I don't need to hear your baby crying or mom calling you.

I don't use xbox live anymore due to how crappy people are when they're anon online.


Quote:
Um, Ventrilo exists. Any LS/Guild that would require members to use in-game voice chat would just require Vent if there was no in-game option.



Only time vent should ever be required is for first time encounters. I hate when I join a new guild and they go "oh we need vent on all the time" just so they can chat about how much their day sucked. No thanks.

Edited, Jul 9th 2009 8:13pm by SoiFon
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#30 Jul 09 2009 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Eh, I'd rather not have voice chat. Even if it was an optional thing, it can still lead to quite a few problems.

If I want to play with everyone squelched and not listen to voice chat, this prevents me from communicating with people in parties or groups who prefer to use voice chat onry. It's easier to keep everyone on the same wavelength, so to say, by just not offering it.

The few times where it would come in handy, people can just run a 3rd party program in the background and have their hootin' and hollerin' anyway.
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#31 Jul 09 2009 at 4:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't want it. I hate voice chatting in games and if it's in the game standard its gonna be expected of you to voice chat.
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#32 Jul 09 2009 at 6:38 PM Rating: Good
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#33 Jul 14 2009 at 7:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Voice chat streamlines Inanity. People that are gonna go on about random BS no one cares about should not have the luxury of doing it hands free. Especially at events where peeps get ****** when **** hits the fan and wants to yell at everyone.

Also.. It seems the majority of online game players(mainly in the US) are white or white-bread and the dialogue between these peeps can get pretty unbearable for the "minority".

>.>

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#34 Jul 14 2009 at 8:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Archfiend has my vote with his 10 point "id rather not" post.

The times that I dispair that voice chat was introduced to games far outnumbers the times that I am thankful to have it. I use it alot for FPS Games and the number of people I have met that use it to effectively communicate so that they and I can work better together is pathetically small. Normally I take my mic off after 2 mins of playing as its dominated by players illustrating most of the 10 points Archfiend raised.

SE has stated that the reason they didn't introduce voice chat to FFXI was due to their desire to integrate the JP and ENG players and that text communication would be far more suitable. I can't imagine walking through a Jeuno/Al Zabi like area in FXIV being forced to listen to captain numbskull going into voice shout playing his favorite tune, have a coughing fit, argue with his GF/Wife, swear repeatedly for no apparent reason for the shock value and to hear his own voice.

The only time I can see voice chat being welcome and useful is during LS events or when speaking to people on your friend list. These are people you have chosen to work with and speak to and in the case of LS events it adds an advantage to be able to communicate quickly especially in endgame events.

So I am going to go with i'd rather not have voice chat be a broad function, but yes it would be nice as a LS chat and Friend list chat option, and absolutely NO /shout, /say, /party voice chat functions..... even listening to pick up parties chat and make strange noises with their mic's would drive me Nuckin Futs.
#35 Jul 14 2009 at 8:46 PM Rating: Good
SE didn't even have a toggle for sound in game. There was the bar to lower it, but never completely off. So I really don't trust them to make a fully functional chat program while keeping audio options intact.
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