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Why FFXIV won't be as casual as you thinkFollow

#52Maldavian, Posted: Jul 08 2009 at 2:20 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If you don't have time of a game that requires that you invest time in then don't play it.
#53 Jul 08 2009 at 2:31 AM Rating: Good
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SE: As with World of Warcraft and how they have aimed for the casual users, we do want to put some of that in FFXIV as well - aiming for those more casual users. We don't, however, want to make a copy of World of Warcraft, and we're going to have things that we believe are unique, and will make us stand out from that game.


Sounds to me like I don't have to worry too much about that. I'm a more casual user. They're aiming for us.
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#54 Jul 08 2009 at 3:17 AM Rating: Good
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woooter wrote:
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Really then enlighten me on how many are walking around in epics.

quite a bit.
Quote:
And how fast you can aquire them.

About as fast as one can acquire sky god gear and some abjurations and some dynamis pieces.

It's all the same, really.


It's much much faster than that. You can easily get a full set within a week, with a mix of epics from 5-man content, crafted items, some items from pickup groups doing 10man and 25man versions of the second highest tier of endgame content (Naxxramas). World of Warcraft has kinda lost it's meaning with "epic" items, since most run around in them just a couple of weeks after getting max level.
#55 Jul 08 2009 at 4:06 AM Rating: Good
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My own take and opinion on the subject is based on my experience from previous MMO's, ranging from the old days of Everquest, and then into FFXI and WoW.

I agree with the OP, that they'll focus mostly on increasing accessibility, and thereby introduce the game to a much wider audience. This doesn't neccesarily mean it'll be very fast and easy to accomplish things, but rather that the focus will be on reducing it the times it takes to progress once you've logged onto the game.

There's a few major things they'll need to focus on fixing in FFXIV to make it more appealing to casual players and just a wider playerbase in general. Like the OP said, the time it takes to start "progressing" from the moment you log in will be the biggest change I think we'll see in FFXIV. There's a few major things I think they'll be overhauling, and concentrating on balancing. They include, but are not limited to:

  • - Extremly reduced log-in time (PlayOnline Viewer removed, possibly no launcher or very small and fast one)

  • - Making/Looking for group tool (Will be greatly expanded to allow for quick creation and finding of groups for a wide variety of content ranging from quests, storyline missions, leveling, merit parties and more.)

  • - Focus on balancing classes (No jobs will have to sit in the main cities looking for groups for hours unsuccessfully, and not every group will need X or Y class to go out and do something.)

  • - Expanded jobsystem (This touches on the thing above, but with S-E saying they'll expand on the jobsystem, I think you'll be able to borrow abilities, traits and skills from several different classes all at once. This could possibly imply that you can borrow things like healing skills, tanking skills and support skills from classes when you wish to do lesser content and group content. I don't think it'll be as potent as having them skills as a "main" job, but it'll get the job done for anything outside of end-game raiding content or the hardest group content.)

  • - Travelling will be vastly improved. (While I do think there'll be things like slow airship rides and large zones, I also think they'll add easier accessible mounts like chocobos, and also larger variety of portal spells, outposts and something like a default warp item to quicken the time it takes to get from A to B and return to the cities.)

  • - Solo content (This can be everything from killing npc's to adding quests, tradeskills, farming, certain story-line elements which all be done on your own.)

  • - Expanded auction house. (It'll expanded to allow easier access, overview and purchasing selling of items.)

  • - Massive overhaul of many UI elements. (Expanded quest/mission logs, much improved map system, better minimap, ingame friend list, better search tool and macro functions, a bit more customizable unit frames.)

  • - Low to mediumrange endgame content, which is acccesible to a wider audience. (I do believe that Square-Enix will continue in the tradition of having much if it's endgame content being very time-consuming, but they'll try to add more end-game content which a single groups can accomplish, and still get good rewards from.)

  • - Viewble and attainble progress (Meaning they'll have a few "point based" systems where people can easily and quickly see their progress towards their next item or character upgrade)


  • There's alot more things for them to improve and add, and I personally think they'll take many of the things from FFXI, such as Besieged, campaign, level sync, FoV and add them in one way or the other to FFXIV. As for the intial release of the game, I do not think it'll be anywhere as fast to level to "max level" in the game as it is in FFXI today. The reason is rather simple. Just like most MMO's, content will be somewhat limited at release, and it's not good for a large population to be at the end of the line with few things to do. For me, Final Fantasy has never been about the end-game, but rather the journey towards it.

    FFXI stood out from the crowd of MMO's, as it had a large amount of worthwhile content available as you progressed towards the max level. This is something they've taken from the Final Fantasy franchise, and incorporated into their MMO, and I think it's something they'll stick with. Instead of just rushing people towards the end, they let people travel across the world, enjoy the areas, listen to the music and take part in the grand and epic storyline. The questlines to attain summons, to get access to chocobo, airships and completing genkais were things that stood out for me the most. I think these smaller events will be something they'll add more of in FFXIV, and greatly expand upon. With that in mind, I do not think they'll rush people towards max-level, and subsequently, I don't think you'll get to max level within a month, even if you're a hardcore player.

    All in all, with the major goal of reducing time it takes to start progressing in FFXIV, with improved elements from FFXI, the Final Fantasy franchise and new improved mechanics and gameplay features I think we can expect one of the more interesting and better MMO's in 2010.

    Edited, Jul 8th 2009 8:11am by muppenz
    #56 Jul 08 2009 at 6:25 AM Rating: Default
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    Picture Frodo standing in Rivendell, after declaring he'd take the ring to Mount Doom. In the WoW version, Frodo would have spent the next 30mins shouting for a summon to the mountain. When that failed, he may have jumped on his proto-drake and flown in relative safety to his destination. Another option might have been to get all of Rivendell to whine in unison and wait for... “In the next major content patch a new zeppelin route is being added that will transport players between Rivendell and Mount Doom.”

    I just don't think the WoW versions of the movie would have been as good.

    Granted, traveling though low-level zones in FFXI can be tedious. On the other hand, the majority of endgame zones are perilous, and the journey is part of the overall experience. I sure hope FFXIV doesn't take that away.

    #57 Jul 08 2009 at 9:14 PM Rating: Decent
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    muppens said
    Quote:
    - Low to mediumrange endgame content, which is acccesible to a wider audience. (I do believe that Square-Enix will continue in the tradition of having much if it's endgame content being very time-consuming, but they'll try to add more end-game content which a single groups can accomplish, and still get good rewards from.)

    Exactly. There's no reason to think accessible means easy to finish. It can easily just mean that there's more interesting things to do at levels casual players will see. I never fought the last hunt boss in FF12 (or its version of omega weapon), but I still enjoyed the game.

    One thing I would add to that list, I read a lot about specific levelling areas being far from a particular town (sorry, don't know all the names) with intervening areas featuring much tougher monsters. That doesn't make any sense to me. Most console games progress the difficulty of monsters as you put distance between yourself and safe areas. I think it makes more sense to give higher level characters a means of teleporting to areas that are useful to them and keep the easier stuff where lower level characters can get to it.
    #58 Jul 09 2009 at 12:16 AM Rating: Good
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    Your a @#%^ing ****. I didn't compare this game to WoW YOUR the one doing that. I don't want this game to be WoW. Because guess what. I @#%^ing hate WoW. But all you can do is sit here and spit out baseless lies about WoW. I've seen this sh*t come out of your mouth for a month and I'm sick of it. No WoW is not populated mostly by children. It's mostly populated by 20 somethings. It took me 6 months to level to cap in wow not 3 weeks, when I was playing most people DIDN'T have epics. How many I don't know because I'm not going to throw out a bunch of fictious numbers I pull out of my ***.

    Your the one who maybe needs to GTFO cause your the one here who doesn't seem to want to accept that the devs have stated its gonna be more casual. And no they didn't say more accesible they said more casual. And you know what I have a job I have a career I can't spend 40 hours a week trying to get items in a @#%^ing video game. I have a wife, a job and a career. I'm not some unemployed punk with nothign better to do then play a video game for 6 weeks straight trying to get a drop.

    Get over your elitist @#%^ing attitude. Playing a game doesn't make you cooler or smarter or better then anyone else but you seem to act like your real hot sh*t because you wasted alot more time on a game then some of us did.

    So @#%^ing what if people with jobs and lives want to see all the game without making a game a second career




    You must be the author of 'How to win friends and influence people'.

    I too have a career and a significant other, but it didn't take me longer than a month to level to max level in WoW. Getting full epics from WotLK took a bit longer. If it did take you 6 months of play time to get to level 80 in WoW, then I think that game will have enough content to last you for years to come without you needing to switch to a new game. Your ranting there is exactly why WoW has the reputation of being full of children. Even if you are a '20-something' your text belies that fact. I would rather listen to a polite 5 year old than a 'mature' 20-something like you.


    Edited, Jul 9th 2009 4:26am by Shazaamemt

    Oh and look up the difference between 'your' and 'you're' if you want to be taken seriously as an adult.

    Edited, Jul 9th 2009 4:28am by Shazaamemt

    Edit: seriously.. how the **** do these people become 'scholars'

    Edited, Jul 9th 2009 4:30am by Shazaamemt
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    #59 Jul 09 2009 at 4:27 AM Rating: Decent
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    mezlabor wrote:
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    So, what are you saying? You want to reach the level cap within 3 weeks?
    The problem here is you are comparing FF to WoW. WoW has extreme fast gear progression, whilst FF does not have that. That is the reason you see 99.99% of the players in WoW walk around in epics, because they will very soon replace it.
    It you don’t have the same kind of gear progression in FF then you can't just "casually" hand out gear, since there is very little or almost no gear reset in FF.

    Dude when will you quit with these ridiculous and baseless lies. 99% of the player base in wow aren't walking around in epics.

    The actually kinda are.

    I can't remember the last time I saw someone ingame who wasn't wearing all or mostly epics.

    The term "Epic" has almost become a joke. But then again, it doesn't really matter what the color of the name of your items are. If Blizzard had colored every item's name green, we'd be wearing greens while we raided, and nobody would think twice about it.

    EDIT: When I hit level 80 about two weeks after WotLK came out, I was wearing epics in all but my headgear slot within 3 days. The headgear took me a while to get, just due to bad luck. Yeah I'm a bit more hardcore than the average WoW player, but it's still incredibly easy; getting all epics would have taken months in pre-expansion World of Warcraft.

    But then again? What is an Epic? Then color purple and nothing more.

    Edited, Jul 9th 2009 8:32am by Karelyn
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    #60 Jul 09 2009 at 7:39 AM Rating: Decent
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    when i think of a casual hardcore type of game i think of only 1....

    Monster Hunter
    that game sold like crazy to both hard core and casual gamers because it had both pick up and play with missions lasting 10-20 mins long while at the same time required you to have skill since the bosses like tigrex where so **** hard to beat.

    i hope SE takes this type of direction with FF14.
    FF11 was hardcore for many reasons. missions and quests took forever to do. you had to run from god knows where to the end of the world just so u can start the mission. then you had to get help because there was NO WAY you could solo the bosses. after which u had to travel for another 30mins-2hours just so u can get to the boss. then u had to kill a ridiculously hard *** boss which required crazy amounts of team work and guides. then run all the way back to finish off the mission. the start and end could be soloed on your own time but doing the "bulk" of the mission took to long.

    adding solo "leveling" content (FOV + conquest + any eles they come up with) thats close to party "leveling" would make it more casual friendly.
    making missions extremely short (20-30mins thats travel and boss and another 5-10mins to fight the boss) but adding a tonne of different missions (like 200+) makes it both casual and hardcore friendly.
    adding hard to get gear is also easy to do. have all the high end equipment (AF, relic, etc gear) obtainable much like the dancers AF gear (gloves and headpiece) where u have to collect 5-10+ different items from 10-20+ different types of quests specific for that gear set which require 10-20 mins of work to finish but you'll need a party and the drops are random from a list makes it casual (since it doesn't require hours to do) and hardcore (even tho the quests are short u'll need to grind them) friendly.

    leveling doesn't have to take forever where theres a 999 "level" or ability cap. sure thats one way of doing it but the grind becomes unbearable even for hardcore players. imagine grinding 999 different "levels" or abilities or w/e SE decides to use.
    making it casual and hardcore in my view would be to make "leveling"/"ability grinding"/w/e SE decides to use accessible by everyone with solo content doing pretty much the same as party content but slower (what i mean is make the mobs soloable none of that whole EP mobs can almost kill you bs). if u want to solo all your "levels"/"abilities"/w/e it is doable but not recommended. partying could give some type of bonus? maybe a 1.1exp bonus?(might bite everyone in the *** but atleast it will get people who hate to party to start partying / btw im against a party exp bonus) along with that a 90% guarantee of not dieing even with a party full of noobs at the cost of slower kills. also better party tools so that even if one person left you can still find someone to fill there slot, or you can even function well as a party without that person. i say make parties a min of 3 ppl which can be expanded up to 6 with no minus effects that way if choose to get a full party of 6 and someone leaves it doesn't matter much other then the speed in which u gain "exp"/"ap"/w/e that way if one person leaves your still able to kill mobs and not have to wait for a rep.

    stop ripping off examples from one type of source. use your brains and think of something new.
    theres hundreads of ways to make a casual and hardcore MMO at the same time.

    i think whole heartly that this type of system would appeal to most hardcore and casual gamers.
    if u wanted u could grind missions over and over so you could reach the top of the top and get all those mission skills and everything it has to offer, while at the same time the casual player could get thru atleast one part of the story at there own pace. while at the same time if u want to forget about the story (which you would be missing out of tons of usefull skills and a great plot) you could and just go straight to doing quests which help u gather some new abilities, that AF/Relic/w/e gear thats so cool looking, new jobs, and w/e else SE can cram into quest based "stuff" so you can look elite. all in all weither u go one way or the other SE has to make them huge time sinks. you shouldn't be able to finish all the mission quests and the normal quests by yourself. you also shouldn't be able to finish all the missions in under 60 hours, 200 hours seems like a decent amount of time if all u do is grind mission quests.

    of course time adds up. having different quests (in my mind i picture BCNM type quests) which give u one of the 10-20 items u need for relic gear could take u a whole 1-3 hours to get since the drop is rare. 1-3 hours x 10-20 items = 10-30/20-60 hours just so u can get 1 peice of AF/Relic/w/e armor seems about right.
    imagine if there was 20 jobs each with AF armor, 10 new different types of relic gear, another 5 uber gear. and to get the next best u need the previous or something like cursed armor which is also a rare drop from quests type bcnms or even a mission reward. collecting all of these armor sets would net u a little over a years worth of time on average if u play for 18hours a day (thats if there isn't added requirements to do the quest in the first place) .... gl.... of course this would all be included in front the get go with added stuff in expansions.

    many many many ways to make it all add up. even the most hardcore player would need a lot of time to get all that if they just focused on that alone.

    b4 any of u start saying thats a lot of work to program and what not. its not. programming quests is easy. if they make a good enough quest editor built into the engine.

    missions on the other hand will need some work. but whos saying they all have to have a cutscene at the end of each. making 60 missions (3 nations if they keep that from ff11) 6 missions per rank aint that hard to do + extra missions that fall under all nations. all of this can be easily done in 5 years worth of development. expanding on this by adding another 100 missions + 100 new quests in expansions (that they will make for ff14) along with new jobs or w/e aint so hard either if they make a great engine.

    of course this is just my thoughts... this wont be enough for a MMO that has to last a few years. so adding end-game content would increase the time. my times for quests and missions might be off, mb a mission will take u an hour to do? mb they'll add more missions? who knows.

    [edit] made some minor changes....

    Edited, Jul 9th 2009 1:01pm by Leyego
    #61 Jul 09 2009 at 8:51 AM Rating: Default
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    What i was understand about FF14.

    "They say this game Dont will get LVS" what this mean?

    The game will be like Final fantasy 10. where you gain a level and you use your levels for get abilities or stats for make stronger your class.

    Like the merit points in FFXI.

    Like this. If you get class Thief . and you get 5 levels. You will can get

    DEX + 5 -> 3 level points
    Movement Speed + 1% -> 7 level points
    Sneak attack damage increase 1% -> 2 level points
    Dagger Skill + 2 -> 3 level points
    Break Tier 2 on light equip -> 10 level points

    Then here is where in if the game will be casual or no

    If a player without a job. maybe only study play 8 - 10 hours per day This guy will have their class with almost all the stats extra for the levels.

    A casual player who is "Very Busy" and dont have time even for play more than 2 hours per day. Their job will be very weak and when he join a Strong group

    He will be passed in damage. in movement speed. etc for the other Thief play all day.

    So the casual guys will have get People not so avanced in the game for they can play good.

    another example if my thief have 150 Levels on abilities and stats. and i join a party with guys who have 10 - 15 levels. i will kill everything 1 hit . i hope SE make, Something like Level sync. So they make a limit in my abilities and i can kill enough slow for play with They.

    Something the OP forget is

    Get the cap level in a mmrpg, being a total NEwbie even if you have 20 hours for play. it will take you 3 weeks or 4 weeks to get level cap.

    When there people talking about they can take in WOW. lineage2. games like this the cap level in 1 week. Well in FFXI there hardcores can make a level 75 to 2 weeks. But is because they know the game 100% and they know how level up fast

    But if you play lineage2 or wow. like a newbie with a moderate time for play per day like 3 hours?

    Then it will take at least 50 days or 60 days for get the cap level and nice items and being a pimp.now if you play 20 hours well yes you get the cap level in 15 - 20 days. "without luxury items and will be a GIMP ***"

    Edited, Jul 9th 2009 12:53pm by Shakca
    #62 Jul 09 2009 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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    another example if my thief have 150 Levels on abilities and stats. and i join a party with guys who have 10 - 15 levels. i will kill everything 1 hit . i hope SE make, Something like Level sync. So they make a limit in my abilities and i can kill enough slow for play with They.


    Or don't group with someone with 10-15 levels if you have 150. That's like, an MMO staple; you don't group with someone much lower level.

    And casual guys will most likely solo than lfg for party, so they can probably level in their own pace.
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    #63 Jul 09 2009 at 2:55 PM Rating: Decent
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    And that's also kind of a ****** principle for a game that is social by design. If you have friends that are much lower or higher leveled than you, you should still be able to play with them.

    I mean, I can't fathom how anyone who actually has friends can't see how obvious that is.
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    #64Shazaamemt, Posted: Jul 10 2009 at 2:35 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yet another post by Kare that screams WoW fanboy.
    #65 Jul 10 2009 at 2:44 AM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    Yet another post by Kare that screams WoW fanboy.


    ****, you are dumb.
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    We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

    #66 Jul 10 2009 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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    The actually kinda are.

    I can't remember the last time I saw someone ingame who wasn't wearing all or mostly epics.

    The term "Epic" has almost become a joke. But then again, it doesn't really matter what the color of the name of your items are. If Blizzard had colored every item's name green, we'd be wearing greens while we raided, and nobody would think twice about it.

    EDIT: When I hit level 80 about two weeks after WotLK came out, I was wearing epics in all but my headgear slot within 3 days. The headgear took me a while to get, just due to bad luck. Yeah I'm a bit more hardcore than the average WoW player, but it's still incredibly easy; getting all epics would have taken months in pre-expansion World of Warcraft.

    But then again? What is an Epic? Then color purple and nothing more.


    This must be where my confusion comes from, I stopped playing wow after TBC came out. It wasn't easy then. I haven't played since wotlk came out. And no there's nothing epic about items you replace with 61 uncommons...

    Edited, Jul 10th 2009 4:11pm by mezlabor
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    #67 Jul 12 2009 at 6:29 PM Rating: Decent
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    The whole premise of this thread just seems wrong. I mean, god forbid people keep playing because it's fun, engaging, and full of things to do as opposed to the amount of time sinks put into it? I think SE knows better.
    #68 Jul 12 2009 at 7:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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    Hyanmen wrote:
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    Yet another post by Kare that screams WoW fanboy.


    ****, you are dumb.

    No, no he's totally right.

    Because I play WoW hardcore, just like how I played FFXI hardcord and how I played Ragnarok Online hardcore, and every singleplayer game I've ever owned hardcore.

    Totally means I'm a WoW fanboy. It couldn't possibly mean that I'm just a hardcore gamer. Or a girl. Definitely couldn't be either.

    My frequent comments on things that Blizzard did wrong with WoW that should be a shining example to Square on what NOT to do in FFXIV, are obviously just a ruse.

    I have been uncovered! Oh no! :(
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    #69 Jul 12 2009 at 7:09 PM Rating: Decent
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    No, no he's totally right.

    Because I play WoW hardcore, just like how I played FFXI hardcord and how I played Ragnarok Online hardcore, and every singleplayer game I've ever owned hardcore.

    Totally means I'm a WoW fanboy. It couldn't possibly mean that I'm just a hardcore gamer. Or a girl. Definitely couldn't be either.

    My frequent comments on things that Blizzard did wrong with WoW that should be a shining example to Square on what NOT to do in FFXIV, are obviously just a ruse.

    I have been uncovered! Oh no! :(
    PUHLEEASE we all know girls don't play videogames every mithra is really a man every night elf female is really a man and anyone who doesn't think that FFXI is perfect must love WoW
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    #70 Jul 12 2009 at 7:25 PM Rating: Decent
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    Karelyn wrote:

    Totally means I'm a WoW fanboy. It couldn't possibly mean that I'm just a hardcore gamer. Or a girl. Definitely couldn't be either.


    Cake and girl gamers have at least one thing in common.
    they're both a lie
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    #71 Jul 13 2009 at 8:15 AM Rating: Good
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    Bardalicious wrote:
    Karelyn wrote:

    Totally means I'm a WoW fanboy. It couldn't possibly mean that I'm just a hardcore gamer. Or a girl. Definitely couldn't be either.


    Cake and girl gamers have at least one thing in common.
    they're both a lie

    What about butch ******* gamers?

    ^.~ **** pride!

    Edited, Jul 13th 2009 12:19pm by Karelyn
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    #72 Jul 13 2009 at 8:28 AM Rating: Good
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    Karelyn wrote:

    What about butch ******* gamers?

    ^.~ **** pride!

    Edited, Jul 13th 2009 12:19pm by Karelyn


    Wasn't that last month? YOU'RE ONLY ALLOWED TO LIKE YOURSELF FOR ONE MONTH A YEAR, MADAM!
    #73 Jul 13 2009 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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    KarlHungis wrote:
    Wasn't that last month? YOU'RE ONLY ALLOWED TO LIKE YOURSELF FOR ONE MONTH A YEAR, MADAM!

    It's pride month every month!

    Now eat your blasted rainbows and take your homoeroticism like a man!
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    #74 Jul 13 2009 at 10:09 AM Rating: Good
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    Wow, lots of pointless arguments and claims at being *******.

    ...to the latter I say POIDH.


    To the former I will say this:

    I have no problem with a game that requires dedication to achieve good content. That's part of the adventure and drive in an MMO. You build up your characters and work with friends to achieve large goals.

    What I diddn't like in FFXI was the luck system, which completely unbalanced the Risk and effort / Reward ratio in that game, and I would like to see addressed here. in FFXIV.

    And it really wasn't a set issue that caused the problem, it was how they combined.

    For instance, an item that drops once in every two hundred tries isn't bad in and of itself. It becomes an issue when you get one to two tries every other week, and there's a line of people in front of you that also wants said item. Or, it maintains that rarity by dropping off only ONE monster that has to be publicly contested for once every day or two days, by the entire server.

    That kind of 'luck of the draw' system often pits the player base against itself instead of pushing for more teamwork.

    And of course this in and of itself wouldn't be an issue if it had sufficient alternatives, with FFXI did not. Instead of reinventing the wheel so to speak, they simply provide MORE events of the same basic luck system in hopes of lowering the competition for said item, not really thinking that established endgame shells or even new shells would just broaden the events. Same people standing the the same line in the same order.

    The result was elitism, favored players in linskhells with multiple sets of the same items while your more casual base is barely wearing sky gear, and not through lack of effort, mind you.

    SE got closer to a correct system though. Relic Items, that advanced in stages, Augments, and Nyzul Isle points for the new weapon skills, gave people a means to work GRADUALLY towards something. The problem being, there was no reward for the effort if you didn't completely follow through, which means, nothing to encourage you to continue except the end-reward. Again that appeals only to the direct hardcore players who will grind through every difficulty just for the imaginary prestige.

    What I would like to see in this game (heck I'd like to see it implemented in FFXI still.) Is an endgame weapon that you can level. Kind of a cross between the Augement System and a Merit system, in which the effort you put into said endgame weapon is directly rewarded BY your efforts, be it by gathering experience with it, use pf weapon skills and abilities, or by finding 'rare' items to augment it. The course of which can being determined by the player, rather by the designers.

    The result? YOUR weapon, directly evolved on your experience, suited directly for your needs and desires. While you still have the ability to go out and get "Super Rare" item to power it up to make it powerful more quickily (if you're lucky). You can also make it just as powerful by working at it gradually.

    As far as armor and accessories, I'd like to see the augment system more developed in this new game to fit a same sort of effort/reward system.

    See, taking "Time Sinks" out of the game does not always mean taking out the grinding itself, it can also mean rewarding them for grinding, directly related to WHERE they are putting the effort into, along the way.
    #75 Jul 13 2009 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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    Hyrist wrote:
    Wow, lots of pointless arguments and claims at being *******.

    ...to the latter I say POIDH.




    Pretty Ostriches In Da House?

    Penguin Orgy Is Doubly Hated?

    WHAT CAN IT MEAN?
    #76 Jul 13 2009 at 10:33 AM Rating: Good
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    KarlHungis wrote:
    Hyrist wrote:
    Wow, lots of pointless arguments and claims at being *******.

    ...to the latter I say POIDH.




    Pretty Ostriches In Da House?

    Penguin Orgy Is Doubly Hated?

    WHAT CAN IT MEAN?

    It means he wants pics of a butch *******. Which is odd, considering most men tend to find lesbians horribly ugly, the sight of which tends to make them to projectile vomit.

    =D
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    #77 Jul 13 2009 at 11:02 AM Rating: Decent
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    No not lipstick lesbians. And Many guys find two girls together very hot... just watch some **** movies >.>
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    #78 Jul 13 2009 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
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    Karelyn wrote:

    It means he wants pics of a butch *******. Which is odd, considering most men tend to find lesbians horribly ugly, the sight of which tends to make them to projectile vomit.

    =D


    Yes, I know what it meant. But I thought Ostriches and Penguins would be more fun.

    Since we're off topic: My employer is very "progressive" so I work with a LOT of openly ******* women (in fact, probably half the women I work with). I'd say there's about a 50/50 split between "very attractive" and "very unattractive" (to my eyes, since obviously their partners would disagree). The latter do seem to embrace the more dominant/masculine/butch/whatever you want to call it role in their relationships.

    I wonder if it's a case of taking on an identity to match an appearance, or cultivating an appearance to match an identity, or whether it's a total lack of effort to cultivate an appearance, and that's what makes them seem unattractive.

    I wonder something similar thing about flamboyantly *** men. Are they flamboyant as a way of signaling their preference? Maybe more men would be flamboyant, but because it's considered a "***" trait socially, only openly *** men feel comfortable expressing that?

    I don't really have any openly *** male friends, and I'd feel like a jerk just asking a random *** guy about it.

    #79 Jul 13 2009 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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    mezlabor wrote:
    No not lipstick lesbians. And Many guys find two girls together very hot... just watch some **** movies >.>

    Those aren't lesbians. Just two girls paid to have *** with each other.

    Just like those big muscular jocks that seem to make up most *** ****. As we all know, sports athletes are never *** >.>

    Quote:
    I wonder if it's a case of taking on an identity to match an appearance, or cultivating an appearance to match an identity, or whether it's a total lack of effort to cultivate an appearance, and that's what makes them seem unattractive.

    In my case, I wear flannel jackets and a trucker's cap for the lulz. I totally wanna get a big red pickup truck too, if I could ever afford one D:

    Edited, Jul 13th 2009 3:45pm by Karelyn
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    #80 Jul 13 2009 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
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    When it comes to subjects about men and the reasons they are flamboyant or not, I can't tell you. The one's I know aren't flamboyant or open in most cases, though some do carry over some of the more trademark traits.

    About pictures of butch ******* women. (Still still don't see any pictures GDI) There's really two kinds of butch ******* in my experience: Those that take care of themselves, and those that don't. I find the previous attractive, and the latter an unfortunate stereotype to be tossed on the idea in general.

    Funny how I got more reactions to a one sentence reply than a several paragraph one. ^^;

    (Also: P.hallic O.bject is "D.ike H.orn"? ^^;; I had to)

    Quote:
    In my case, I wear flannel jackets and a trucker's cap for the lulz. I totally wanna get a big red pickup truck too, if I could ever afford one D:


    >.> My fiancee is going into trucking next week, maybe you can hitch up in her truck some day?

    Edited, Jul 13th 2009 3:51pm by Hyrist
    #81 Jul 13 2009 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
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    Hyrist wrote:
    About pictures of butch ******* women. (Still still don't see any pictures GDI) There's really two kinds of butch ******* in my experience: Those that take care of themselves, and those that don't. I find the previous attractive, and the latter an unfortunate stereotype to be tossed on the idea in general.

    But not shaving your legs/underarms and letting your mustache grow out because you don't have to adhere to some male-dominated idea of beauty is the best part of being a *******!

    EDIT: Okay the second best thing.

    EDIT EDIT: Okay the third best thing. But it's still awesome.

    Edited, Jul 13th 2009 4:03pm by Karelyn

    Edited, Jul 13th 2009 4:04pm by Karelyn
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    #82 Jul 13 2009 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
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    I dunno. I don't like the idea of adhering to a counter-culture's standards any more than adhering to a standardized culture. It's just a grown up version of high school cliques.

    If letting your hair grow out is cool with your partner and makes you feel good, go for it. I know that if I could be done with the rugs some would call my leg hair for good without breaking the bank several times I'd be done with it all. But as it is, I'm a hairy mutt.

    Kinda boils back down to the old MMO conformations and how FFXVI's system for leveling likely won't involve any true idea of jobs at all as an attempt to break that. Having set 'jobs' and 'classes' really does pre-standardize things. It's not "Hey lets bring Joethemighty along, he's good at that." It's **********, we need a Paladin tank."

    If we're not supposed to be pushing into specialization and categorizing people in life, why the **** do we do it so often? I hope SE learned it's lesson when it came to pushing for set groups and roles and that we really do go by a FFII type system.
    #83 Jul 13 2009 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
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    Right now I have one openly *** friend and hes not flamboyant. Youd never know if he didn't tell you. He's not really a big fan of the flamboyant ones.

    I've had a few diesel ******* friends and I've really really enjoyed their company. Not to say Id like them all but the ones I have met were alot of fun.

    Edited, Jul 13th 2009 5:52pm by mezlabor

    I love how grossly off topic this has gotten.

    Edited, Jul 13th 2009 5:52pm by mezlabor
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    #84 Jul 13 2009 at 2:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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    mezlabor wrote:
    Right now I have one openly *** friend and hes not flamboyant. Youd never know if he didn't tell you. He's not really a big fan of the flamboyant ones.

    This actually describes the majority of *** guys. The stereotype of the flamboyant *** is perpetuated by the simple fact that they are the most easily identified. Furthermore, any flamboyant straight man will be assumed ***, while any non-flamboyant man will be assumed straight. These assumptions fuel the supposed link between sexuality and mannerism.

    Unfortunately, the *** community is also at fault. By emphasizing the extremes of the *** population (through pride parades and other 'we're here we're ***** tactics) we alienate ourselves from mainstream culture more than necessary. If I had my way, the *** community would be emphasizing the similarities and common values it shares with mainstream society in order to foster a sense of fraternity or common ground.

    But meh, nothin' i can do to fix it.

    Also, successful derail is successful.

    Edited, Jul 13th 2009 5:06pm by Bardalicious
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    #85 Jul 13 2009 at 2:23 PM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:

    This actually describes the majority of *** guys. The stereotype of the flamboyant *** is perpetuated by the simple fact that they are the most easily identified. Furthermore, any flamboyant straight man will be assumed ***, while any non-flamboyant man will be assumed straight. These assumptions fuel the supposed link between sexuality and mannerism.

    Unfortunately, the *** community is also at fault. By emphasizing the extremes of the *** population (through pride parades and other 'we're here we're ***** tactics) we alienate ourselves from mainstream culture more than necessary. If I had my way, the *** community would be emphasizing the similarities and common values it shares with mainstream society in order to foster a sense of fraternity or common ground.

    But meh, nothin' i can do to fix it.
    You know he said precisely the same thing. That buy I guess advertising? The extremes like your leather daddies and queens the rift between the straight and *** communities widens instead of showing how we're all essentially the same but with different sexual preferences. In the end we all want the same things to be happy, safe, comfortable, to make a living and to have love.
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    #87 Jul 13 2009 at 4:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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    What the ****. Has happened.. To this thread?

    And why wasn't I here when it did? :p

    Someone has to represent those allegedly non-existent lipstick lesbians! Sheesh.

    No really though, that is one **** of a derail. I really need to stop reading the last post first and working my way up. Thought I was in the Asylum for a minute there.
    #88 Jul 13 2009 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
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    Torrence wrote:
    What the ****. Has happened.. To this thread?

    And why wasn't I here when it did? :p

    Someone has to represent those allegedly non-existent lipstick lesbians! Sheesh.

    No really though, that is one **** of a derail. I really need to stop reading the last post first and working my way up. Thought I was in the Asylum for a minute there.

    Asylum? ****, we aren't even to OoT proportions yet. There was a 37 page discussion about same *** marriage in the OoT. That was 1800 replies long.

    But to attempt to get back on topic... there is indeed a difference between hardcore as in "it takes forever to find a group to do something because they require a specific setup" and hardcore as in "the bosses pack a punch evenly for all setups". Ideally it would be the latter. Perhaps a system that tweaked bosses depending on the party's makeup that tried to maintain a certain level of difficulty.
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    #89Allegory, Posted: Jul 13 2009 at 5:56 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It would be a difficult idea to implement, but if done successful would work very well. It's very hard for developers to know how players will optimize for their content and know how effective each type of party setup is.
    #90 Jul 13 2009 at 6:18 PM Rating: Decent
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    Allegory wrote:
    Bardalicious wrote:
    Asylum? ****, we aren't even to OoT proportions yet. There was a 37 page discussion about same *** marriage in the OoT. That was 1800 replies long.

    It was still going hot when Kaolian arbitrarily decided it should be closed.

    I was legitimately disappointed when I saw that it had been locked. Sad times.


    Allegory wrote:

    It would be a difficult idea to implement, but if done successful would work very well. It's very hard for developers to know how players will optimize for their content and know how effective each type of party setup is.

    It would have to involve consistent tweaking on their part, which would be hard for SE to do.

    Allegory wrote:
    Perhaps another way to approach the problem is to design redundant content. Two bosses with very different strategies that give similar rewards. Hopefully if the first boss happens to be poorly tuned, where half the classes are not too useful, the second boss will offer those classes another chance to shine. This can be rather expensive in that you're nearly outputting twice as much content so it isn't the greatest solution.

    I can see this working. Let's say you are doing mission X where you have to fight against some force A and that force A has two commanders/leaders/bosses. The developers could write into the mission script that your party is accompanied by another party of 'NPC's. At one point in the mission it's decided that you and the NPC party will split up to take the opposition down and you get to choose which path to take.

    I'd say the system is akin to Gears of War where you could choose to go one way or the other, though it had less of an effect in that game.
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    #91 Jul 14 2009 at 5:15 AM Rating: Decent
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    I think the majority of MMORPG's out there combine questing with levelling grind. FFXI didnt....however it did introduce Fields of Valor, which took the grind out of solo-levelling...is it a lesson learnt? I dont mind the levelling grind - however if all we have seeking is 6 whitemages - I would like to know that I can take those 6 people and level without consequence.

    FFXI is also unique that the resting of mages took FOREVER!....An example: in WOW mages just have to pop a drink, or push a button and less than 30 secs later they are ready to fight. FFXI mages dont have that....rest for what is it? 2-3 minutes, no mana potion popping....lets go put the kettle on....

    A sad fact is that the makers of FFXIV will be spending a lot of energy bringing their game upto the standard of other MMORPGames out there and it is unlikely to have any time left to actually be revolutionary and leapfrog the competition.

    And as FFXI proved - if there is a problem in the game - it will either take upto 7 years to fix or not at all -.-









    #92 Jul 14 2009 at 8:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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    Abbottone wrote:


    FFXI is also unique that the resting of mages took FOREVER!....An example: in WOW mages just have to pop a drink, or push a button and less than 30 secs later they are ready to fight. FFXI mages dont have that....rest for what is it? 2-3 minutes, no mana potion popping....lets go put the kettle on....



    You should have played Everquest. It literally took my Wizard 7-8 minutes to regen to full mana from empty, while meditating. So imagine trying to solo when you could easily run OOM killing a single mob if you got some resists, and then 7-8 minutes of downtime before you could kill the next one.

    FFXI is like EQ with a lot of the tedious crap cut out, and it's still considered one of the most tedious MMOs ever.

    It's amazing what kind of crap you'll put up with when there are no other options.
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