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Affirm your worthlessness! A call for camping and grinding.Follow

#1 Jul 07 2009 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
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My fellow players. I come before you to request very humbly that you aid me in my venture. It is not the boldest or noblest of ventures, but it is dear to me, and to many others as well.

Answer my call to demand more camping and grinding in FFXIV. Hear me.

Some of you are brilliant strategists. Given an infinite number of gameplay possibilities, you will find ingenious methods of triumph, and your intelligence will bring you to the highest heights of our fictional world.

Others still are masters of the thumb. They can maneuver with all speed and dexterity their character to decimate even the most aggressive opponent. Your phalanges are weapons of the highest caliber, and your surgical skill will earn you the accolades of lore.

Lest we forget our great leaders! Their deftly executed orders rally us to victory! They have mastered the oratory arts, and in doing so can move an army with a single tongue.

But what of us worthless pawns? We have no wit, no skill, and we are poor in camaraderie. We have only one thing that gives us value. Time! We have seemingly infinite time with which to apply every fiber of our being into our character. It is as if we live more as our character than as ourselves. Lo, if only our eyes could be a permanent window into this fictional world! We would dedicate ourselves fully to this endeavor!

So I pray to thee, friends! Beseech the Square of Enix to create but one more game for those of us without any skill or value whatsoever! A game for those of us who have nothing to offer but unending amounts of free time with which we would rather not better ourselves in any way! A game for the unthinking addicts! Give us an even greater sink in which to **** away our time!
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#2 Jul 07 2009 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Interesting, Kachi. I never thought I could agree with you on anything whatsoever. But this time, I guess you did it.

Yes. Let us indulge in our virtuals worlds, logged in 24/7, piously devoted, willing to sacrifice our worthless life for the greater good in a heroic - epic - grind. There is no need to conjure any arguments. It's so obvious. Without a pain in the ***, there is no way this could be fun. Only by transforming the infinite amounts of time we have into infinite amounts of repetition can we ever get the feeling of accomplishment. After all, we are real men. With buttocks hard as diamonds, a never-winking gaze of ice, and fingertips tempered to pure steel by pressing the same combination of equip-macros for aeons. We don't like diversion and fun. We like to bleed. No need to evolve. Evolution is heresy. The world may be spinning on, but we will endure.
This is not a game. * This * is * Sparta *. [~.~]/ [~.~]/ [~.~]/ [~.~]/ [~.~]/

Remember:
If something looks, sounds and feels like a change for the better, it must be wrong. Especially if it strips us of the only asset we have. Do the right thing. Make little Jesus smile in his cradle. Vote for grinding.

Edited, Jul 7th 2009 6:15pm by Rinsui
#3 Jul 07 2009 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Jesus, Kachi. I never thought I could agree with you anything whatsoever. But this time, I think you did it. Yes! Let us indulge in our virtual worlds logged in 24/7, be it as mindless bots or mindless players, willing to give our worthless lifetime to grinding and camping, just because this - this - is the only thing we can do better than anyone else out there. This is not about fun. This is a game for real men. We don't invent or evolve. We endure. We are Spartans. ^.^/


I lol'd. I never thought I would read something so arrogant followed by something so pathetic.

Edited, Jul 7th 2009 5:42pm by Draykoneyus
#4 Jul 07 2009 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Nice way of putting it, Kachi. Although, my reasons for agreement are simple.

Where did I meet most of the unique ppl? Where did I meet most of the ppl that occupy my fl on xi? In exp grinds, that's where!

Not everyone likes assaults, einherjar, etc... But at one time or another everyone in xi has to grind. So, the chances for meeting the widest variety of ppl I would believe to be in grinding out the lvls.

I'm cool with the doing away of the current grind as long as there is someting unique of the same caliber to rightfully takes it's place.
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#5 Jul 07 2009 at 2:18 PM Rating: Default
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Draykoneyus wrote:
I lol'd. I never thought I would read something so arrogant followed by something so pathetic.

Sock puppets make me lol too.
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#6 Jul 07 2009 at 2:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Just in case it escapes anyone, I was being sardonic.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#7 Jul 07 2009 at 2:23 PM Rating: Decent
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@Kachi
Come on. Now this was most obvious... ****, reading the following posts I am no more that sure... Jesus. Did anyone take this for serious (0.o)/?
@TehMunk
I have to admit you got a valid argument there. In hindsight, I have to agree those times of mindless repetition actually left enough of my brain unused to pull off some nice off-topic conversations with the people in my party.

Edited, Jul 7th 2009 6:27pm by Rinsui

Edited, Jul 7th 2009 6:34pm by Rinsui
#8 Jul 07 2009 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, I was really hoping that they were being sarcastic and -I- was the one missing it.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#9 Jul 07 2009 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Never underestimate the attractiveness of mindless things to mindless... no, this would turn out to be a very arrogant interpretation heavily biased by personal preference.

I guess the main problem is that "grindy content" is a relatively cheap n easy way to keep hardcore players (hardcore Spartans [~.~]/ [~.~]/ [~.~]/ [~.~]/ [~.~]/) busy. Is there any viable alternative?

Edited, Jul 7th 2009 6:33pm by Rinsui
#10 Jul 07 2009 at 2:41 PM Rating: Decent
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ITT: Kachi talks to himself.
#11 Jul 07 2009 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
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That's a cute accusation. I don't have a sock, and if I were going to use one, I have two older accounts I haven't used in years that don't have spanking fresh post counts.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#12 Jul 07 2009 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Like this one. ****, haven't posted on this account in years.
#13 Jul 07 2009 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Funny beyond the original fun intended by this post.
Okok, I admit it. I am just another incarnation of
Kachi, kharma-linked to him via a direct ectoplasma
pipeline across the Atlantic Ocean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia

Anyway Kachi (talking to myself again, mind you!),
what alternatives to grinding do you offer from
a developer's standpoint?

P.S.: Boooh! I am Kachi's ghost! Throw me a banish,
this might be the only way to dispose of my heretic
opinion.
#14 Jul 07 2009 at 4:04 PM Rating: Good
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XP grinding was the most fun I had in FFXI. The only thing that comes close are the special missions.

Camping rare spawns however , sucked ***.
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#15 Jul 07 2009 at 4:04 PM Rating: Decent
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To be honest, I don't really even want to go into it. I don't have much to say that I haven't said over and over again. I just wanted to point out the stupidity that would be involved in making another game like FFXI in those respects.

I implied in my OP that making the game more skill oriented is the answer. Whether it be more through strategy, dexterity, or even more dependent on teamwork/leadership (which I think of those three things, that is the one XI does best, but still not nearly well enough), what defines the quality of your character should not be so heavily determined by how much time you're willing to waste.

So who are you really? Long-time reader, first time poster? Or someone's sock? PM me if you don't want to say. Or not, I guess.

Quote:
XP grinding was the most fun I had in FFXI.


Wow, that does not say a lot for FFXI to me. Missions were the most fun to me, personally. There were actually a lot of other fun elements in the game, but they just came too slowly in lieu of poor content that was released. Grinding was fun for maybe the first year of the game. My biggest complaints with FFXI are the basic mechanics and design of the game.

Edited, Jul 7th 2009 5:07pm by Kachi
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#16 Jul 07 2009 at 10:43 PM Rating: Decent
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@Kachi
Sorry for the long delay, I just got up. I'm a very-long-time-reader-but never writer, as forum talk, generally speaking, has a nasty tendency of turning into a "I know better" "No I know better" "You suxxx" "No, you suxxx" type of pingpong game. Or expressed in a more fitting manner: into a mindless grind I deem too worthless to waste my time on.

If you search the database for the NM "Illusory Pot" you get a very, very old picture of my FFXI character. But you know, in reality I just created this character in careful preparation of my ultimate strike against the Allakhazam forum: 4 years of planning just for being able to fool people into believing I might not be a "sock puppet" after all.

As for the skill-oriented content, you might be lucky after all. SE stated to make gameplay more involving and battles more dynamic (if I remember correctly - btw, the english translation is far from being perfect), so perhaps at least some system of tactical positioning (group formations like phalanxes, circles, shield walls, flanking maneuvers) will be implemented to counter the cookie-cutter style of battles we have now. Whether this actually alleviates the grindy feeling only time can tell.

Well then. Enough of talking to myself already ;).
Rinsui aka Ipwnzualllol aka Kachi

#17 Jul 08 2009 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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I wish you would stop joking about that. People here really will take it seriously.

Eh, I'm optimistic, probably overly so. But I do love game design and pointing out the flaws with FFXI alongside the potential in FFXIV basically gives me an erection.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#18 Jul 08 2009 at 10:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:

That's a cute accusation. I don't have a sock, and if I were going to use one, I have two older accounts I haven't used in years that don't have spanking fresh post counts.


Honestly there are a lot of these accusations going around. Someone over in the XI forums was upset that I *was* a Guru and posted a complaint accusing me of having sock puppets and all sorts of other ridiculous things.

*shrugs*

No longer a Guru now. So I guess everyone should be happy :p.

As for the OP, I was beginning to think I was the only one who though it was sarcasm. (At least, I hope it was). I mean come on guys, 24 hour pops need to go. 2 hour pops should really be the max, because nobody can plan around the outrageous 24 hour ones unless they literally have an empty schedule, or are very, very, lucky.
#19 Jul 08 2009 at 10:11 AM Rating: Default
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Torrence wrote:
Kachi wrote:
That's a cute accusation. I don't have a sock, and if I were going to use one, I have two older accounts I haven't used in years that don't have spanking fresh post counts.

Honestly there are a lot of these accusations going around.

I just find it funny when there is a person who comes out of the woodwork to make their first post. Then they claim to be a lurker, who absolutely worships one of the people on the forums who regularly get's sub-defaulted, and then proceeds to take that person's **** in their mouth, and blow them hard.

All hail Rinsui, the great blower of Kachi's ****. I hear auto-felatio requires much flexibility. Are you taking Yoga classes?

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 2:12pm by Karelyn
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#20 Jul 08 2009 at 10:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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You know what they say, "sarcasm on the internet is like winking on the phone". Never underestimate a forum poster's ability to completely miss the point when they really want to.
#21 Jul 08 2009 at 10:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think (hope) SE's plan with 24 hour pops was that it was such a long time, no one would bother wasting all that time camping it, and it would just be something that people randomly stumbled on. And hopefully SE has learned a valuable lesson about how little players value their free time.

I know American players feel that it's their time and they should be rewarded for wasting it, it's their prerogative, etc., but something to remember is that in Japan this is actually considered a serious societal problem-- young people never leaving their rooms, not working or going to school. I don't know how willing SE will be to cater to this kind of behavior in XIV. My impression of Japanese companies is that they are more willing to cave under cultural criticism than western companies (i.e., if SE is getting blamed for this kind of behavior, they are more likely to make changes and less likely to get defensive about it), but I could be off base there.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#22 Jul 08 2009 at 10:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Karelyn wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Kachi wrote:
That's a cute accusation. I don't have a sock, and if I were going to use one, I have two older accounts I haven't used in years that don't have spanking fresh post counts.

Honestly there are a lot of these accusations going around.

I just find it funny when there is a person who comes out of the woodwork to make their first post. Then they claim to be a lurker, who absolutely worships one of the people on the forums who regularly get's sub-defaulted, and then proceeds to take that person's **** in their mouth, and blow them hard.

All hail Rinsui, the great blower of Kachi's ****. I hear auto-felatio requires much flexibility. Are you taking Yoga classes?

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 2:12pm by Karelyn


It's a wonder people don't come out of lurker status more often when they have such charming receptions like this to look forward to.

Now normally I wouldn't take the phrase
Quote:
Interesting, Kachi. I never thought I could agree with you on anything whatsoever. But this time, I guess you did it.
to be equal to "absolute worship" but then again maybe we're using different versions of English.
#23 Jul 08 2009 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Karelyn wrote:
Draykoneyus wrote:
I lol'd. I never thought I would read something so arrogant followed by something so pathetic.
Sock puppets make me lol too.
I agree. It couldn't possibly be a new poster, since you're not allowed to agree with someone until after 1,000 posts.
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#24 Jul 08 2009 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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@Karelyn: And just who the eff are you?

Quote:
Then they claim to be a lurker, who absolutely worships one of the people on the forums who regularly get's sub-defaulted, and then proceeds to take that person's **** in their mouth, and blow them hard.


Regularly sub-defaulted? Let's see. No, you don't have to read all this. It's my recent posts. But the short of it is that I get rated up far more often than I get rated down, and it's very rare that I get sub-defaulted. Which is impressive to me because I'm pretty argumentative (and kind of an unapologetic ****) and could generally care less about my rating.

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Is it hard to believe that someone agreed with what is actually a very reasonable point? And well-written I'm inclined to think. I actually get unprovoked compliments on my writing fairly regularly. I mean, not that I spent even a whole hour on it, but I did apply a smidgen of effort.


Edit: omg lolgaxe-- +1 is my title in my LS forum. You ****** thief! Nah, how are you?

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 11:32am by Kachi
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#25 Jul 08 2009 at 10:36 AM Rating: Good
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Karelyn wrote:

I just find it funny when there is a person who comes out of the woodwork to make their first post. Then they claim to be a lurker, who absolutely worships one of the people on the forums who regularly get's sub-defaulted, and then proceeds to take that person's **** in their mouth, and blow them hard.

All hail Rinsui, the great blower of Kachi's ****. I hear auto-felatio requires much flexibility. Are you taking Yoga classes?


Karelyn you are one of my favorite posters here, but holy crow....

That was over the top.
#26 Jul 08 2009 at 10:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
Karelyn you are one of my favorite posters here, but holy crow....

That was over the top.

You think it was?

I was trying to hold back 0.o

I can sometimes be excessively mean I reckon *shrug*

Rinsui wrote:
@Kachi
Fasten your belt, then back to topic

*laughs*

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 2:51pm by Karelyn
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#27 Jul 08 2009 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
I think (hope) SE's plan with 24 hour pops was that it was such a long time, no one would bother wasting all that time camping it, and it would just be something that people randomly stumbled on. And hopefully SE has learned a valuable lesson about how little players value their free time.

I know American players feel that it's their time and they should be rewarded for wasting it, it's their prerogative, etc., but something to remember is that in Japan this is actually considered a serious societal problem-- young people never leaving their rooms, not working or going to school. I don't know how willing SE will be to cater to this kind of behavior in XIV. My impression of Japanese companies is that they are more willing to cave under cultural criticism than western companies (i.e., if SE is getting blamed for this kind of behavior, they are more likely to make changes and less likely to get defensive about it), but I could be off base there.


Danger: WoW comparison coming up...

As someone who's played both FFXI and WoW for an extended amount of time this is one of the things that I believe WoW got right and FFXI got wrong. IMO instances are a much better system that allows the greatest amount of people to access the largest amount of content.

I prefer NMs in the wild so to speak as random easter eggs you might come across that drop a nice gold nugget or something as opposed to a mob you have to gather 3-15 other people to sit in a some crowded area for hours with other groups while you all wait for a bot to claim some mob. An exaggeration of course but at the same time still dreadfully close to the truth.
#28 Jul 08 2009 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
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@Karelyn
Wash your mouth, and then back to preschool.

@Redyoshi
Thanks. Btw, watch your pants. You know, trying to express an opinion above "You suxxx" clearly makes me a coxxxsuxxxer. ;)

@Kachi
Fasten your belt, then back to topic. Funny again, as I also wondered if the long delay spawntimes weren't originally intended to give the game a taste of "random luck". But then again, SE fixed the spawn windows so that knowing the tod and the spawn window length would give you a rather large chance to encounter the NM. Maybe they were too optimistic not to take the Spartan factor into consideration.
The point I do not agree on (you can relax your grip around your belt now) is that Computer Games are considered a more serious problem overall in Japan than in western countries. Sure, you have the occasional "Hikikomori" (those never-leave-my-room guys), and yes, they are in the media. But overall, gaming is by far more considered an appropriate passtime for an adult there than, well, where I live. But then again, I have little clue about the US.

P.S.: I agree with whoever (whomever?) seems to have plausible arguments to back up her/his cause. If ol'Hitler said this planet is full of beautiful women, I would agree. If the pope said burn all non-christians, because they are not really human anway, I would disagree. Any problem with that?

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 2:51pm by Rinsui

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 2:51pm by Rinsui

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 2:52pm by Rinsui
#29 Jul 08 2009 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Here here!

I find it simply repulsive the state of MMOs today.
Only one EXP bar, and it's so flimsy that killing a single mob makes an actual visual impact upon it. Easy mode, I say! You may as well just start everyone at level cap. NMs with spawn windows, what disgusting decadence. I want the only thing standing between me and my l33t gear to be placeholders upon placeholders and various infuriatingly unforgiving percentages.



/end sarcasm (to the folks who can't see my winking over the phone)

The real irony here is that while FFXI is being held up and reviled as some kind of example of hardcore gaming, for it's time it was actually very casual.

It's inspiration was Everquest. Which is considered the mother of all Grinding here in the west. That's to say nothing of the veritable smorgasbord of Grind Sandwhichs that was, and to an extent still is, the asian MMO market.

Camping NMs for days at a stretch, Camping for EXP for hours, taking forever and year to reach any location of significance, this was all just par-for-the-course for that era in gaming. The only thing FFXI is really guilty of is surviving long enough to see the world change around it.


Edited, Jul 8th 2009 5:05pm by Zemzelette
#30 Jul 08 2009 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
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Admittedly, the grind was not *that* evil as in, let's say, Lineage II. Boy, at least in beta this game was so evil it had me quit in spite of having very funny members in my clan. Then again, this decision led me to FFIX, which had even more funny weidos in my linkshell(s).

My problem, btw, is not with having to sacrifice my time per se. Fun is never a sacrifice. It's rather with doing things I - personally - find hard to consider fun. Repetitive grinding may not be the best example for this, waiting for a NM pop being much more appropriate. Some people may consider the wait thrilling. But I doubt the majority does.

Now of course, Spartans could argue: But if you don't like it (or are too much of a worthless weakling), simply don't do it! Hm. Hard to counter that one, but, well... I also want good gear. Almost everybody does. And if I was forced to waste (personal opinion again) hour upon hour staring at my screen without as much as a twitch as there is no viable alternative to acquire equally good gear more fitting my personal sensibilities - well, then I'd be pretty *******

So that's my very personal, very egoistic point of view on this matter. I just somehow believe there's more such egoists on my side than there are Spartans left in 2009.
#31 Jul 08 2009 at 2:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Since when did we live in Ancient Rome?
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#32 Jul 08 2009 at 9:39 PM Rating: Good
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Spartans are greek not roman and predated the roman empire. by the time rome conquered greece the spartans were a shadow and a memory of their former self
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#33 Jul 08 2009 at 9:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Karelyn wrote:
I just find it funny when there is a person who comes out of the woodwork to make their first post. Then they claim to be a lurker, who absolutely worships one of the people on the forums who regularly get's sub-defaulted, and then proceeds to take that person's **** in their mouth, and blow them hard.

It might be suspicious if this forum wasn't full of various low count posters poppping up all the time. It's not exactly a rare occurrence. Lurking isn't too out of the question, as I know quite a few people in the OOT who lurk most of their time. The OOT has far more lurkers than actual posters. It's also not strange that Rinsui is agreeing with Kachi's posts, as I know quite a few people here (including myself) who would agree, and nearly an entire forum that would.

I'm not saying Rinsui isn't a sock, but it is not suspicious at all. But what do I know, I'm Kachi's sock too.

Edited, Jul 9th 2009 12:57am by Allegory
#34 Jul 08 2009 at 10:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
The real irony here is that while FFXI is being held up and reviled as some kind of example of hardcore gaming, for it's time it was actually very casual.


This.

You people have no idea what you had to go through in EQ.

Exp loss?


Back in my day, if you died in EQ, your computer would literally kick you square in the balls.




And we liked it! WE LOVED IT!
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#35 Jul 08 2009 at 11:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Danger: WoW comparison coming up...

As someone who's played both FFXI and WoW for an extended amount of time this is one of the things that I believe WoW got right and FFXI got wrong. IMO instances are a much better system that allows the greatest amount of people to access the largest amount of content.

I prefer NMs in the wild so to speak as random easter eggs you might come across that drop a nice gold nugget or something as opposed to a mob you have to gather 3-15 other people to sit in a some crowded area for hours with other groups while you all wait for a bot to claim some mob. An exaggeration of course but at the same time still dreadfully close to the truth.


I think you touched on this in another thread and I agreed with you there, so maybe it's redundant to throw in my hat yet again, but here I'm doing it anyway. I agree.

Quote:
The point I do not agree on (you can relax your grip around your belt now) is that Computer Games are considered a more serious problem overall in Japan than in western countries. Sure, you have the occasional "Hikikomori" (those never-leave-my-room guys), and yes, they are in the media. But overall, gaming is by far more considered an appropriate passtime for an adult there than, well, where I live. But then again, I have little clue about the US.


Well, it's an issue in which few people have truly accurate perspective. Neither of us I presume have actually lived in Japan in recent years for a length of time, and while I read -about- the country pretty often and have had many interactions with the culture, I'm certainly no expert. So my impression is that it's treated as a more serious concern there (though not as much as some place like China or Korea). Here, the most national attention video games have ever really received were as a result of ol' disbar champion Jack Thompson's efforts. You're from... Sweden? The UK? Sorry if I missed it.

But while video games are not really popular here, "hikkikomori" are virtually unheard of.

Quote:

The real irony here is that while FFXI is being held up and reviled as some kind of example of hardcore gaming, for it's time it was actually very casual.


I played a MUD (like an MMO, but all text, no pictures) named Merentha for quite a while. For reference, this game was made circa 1996, before EQ. And this game is still running free to play.

A death could set you back a week's worth of grinding. And you could almost literally be killed by anyone no matter how much stronger or weaker they were than you. If they were stronger, obviously, but if they were weaker, all they had to do was attack you. You would automatically attack in response and kill them. There would then be an automatic bounty out on you for your PK, and some high level player would come and kill you.

You would not only lose total XP towards your level, but in this game you level all your skills and stats individually with XP, and when you die, they all go down. Also, anyone can pick up all of your gear and money and you get to acquire those all over.

So I'm familiar with hardcore, and -hundreds- of people either enjoy this kind of game or are too broke/dumb to find a better game. Unfortunately the gameplay is also boring (but not really that much worse than FFXIs!) Yes, it can be much worse, but it can also be much better.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#36 Jul 08 2009 at 11:32 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
A death could set you back a week's worth of grinding. And you could almost literally be killed by anyone no matter how much stronger or weaker they were than you. If they were stronger, obviously, but if they were weaker, all they had to do was attack you. You would automatically attack in response and kill them. There would then be an automatic bounty out on you for your PK, and some high level player would come and kill you.

You would not only lose total XP towards your level, but in this game you level all your skills and stats individually with XP, and when you die, they all go down. Also, anyone can pick up all of your gear and money and you get to acquire those all over.

So I'm familiar with hardcore, and -hundreds- of people either enjoy this kind of game or are too broke/dumb to find a better game. Unfortunately the gameplay is also boring (but not really that much worse than FFXIs!) Yes, it can be much worse, but it can also be much better.


****...why didn't you just hit yourself in the face with a rock for two hours every night?
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#37 Jul 08 2009 at 11:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hah, I hear you, but at the time it was something new and exciting, being able to play online for free in a fantasy world. And it required some imagination.

But I did wise up and quit eventually when I realized that there wasn't much else to the game.

What can I say? I was young, I was experimenting with new games, man.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
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