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Favorite FF VillainFollow

#52 Jul 15 2009 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Zorn and Thorn?
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#53 Jul 15 2009 at 2:36 PM Rating: Excellent
Barret.

A terrorist killing millions of people "to save the world" by blowing up huge structures and power plants, and we're meant to sympathise with him?

Erm... excuse me?

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Oh, and also Edea/Ultimecia/Adel. Still creeps me out watching Rinoa wander around in a daze while possessed. Plus Edea's just plain scary at the start of the game.

Nothing is more dangerous than a drugged up chick who hates all men and has the power to do something about it.

Edited, Jul 15th 2009 10:37pm by Likibiki
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#54 Jul 15 2009 at 4:00 PM Rating: Good
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cookiesmonster wrote:
At the risk of opening another Warcraft can of worms, I'll disagree because the Horde was/is generally "evil"; they were stereotypical villains up until Warcraft 3 when they became more sympathetic. In spite of that, the horde is for the most part the "bad guys" and the alliance the "good guys".

Naw, it's cool, and I'm sure we can keep the conversation civil.

The story was retconned in Warcraft 3 to be that the Orcs were enslaved against their will.

In the context of World of Warcraft, if there is a villainous player faction, the Alliance is by far the closest thing to them. While it is understandable for them to doubt the "The Devil Burning Legion made us do it" excuse the Horde now uses, if you put it in the context of the universe, where the Alliance has seen with their very eyes the Burning Legion...

The actions of the Alliance post third war, even prior to the introduction of Varian Wrynn, is outright genocidal. And unlike the genocide committed by the Horde in the first two wars, the Alliance is doing it completely of their own free will.

Now with the introduction of Varian Wrynn, who has been described by Blizzard as an "Anti-Thrall," especially after Blizzard has heavily pushed Thrall to be essentially a "Jesus Christ" figure for Azeroth, makes the primary leader of the Alliance nothing short of a pure villain.

EDIT: It's also worthy to note that almost every hero the Alliance had from the first three wars, have denounced the Alliance as foolish and racist, and joined a third party faction (such as the Argent Dawn), which works with the Horde.

Edited, Jul 15th 2009 8:03pm by Karelyn
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#55 Jul 15 2009 at 11:38 PM Rating: Decent
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This is one of those points where the thread has been devolved by WoW players into a discussion simply about WoW.

And where many other players simply lose interest because the WoW fanboys can't contain themselves. (**** I have played every Warcraft game and completely agree with Kare here)

It just isn't relevant to the discussion in any shape or form.

FFS keep the WoW chat to the WoW forums. Keep the Final Fantasy chat to the FF forums.

Discussions about MMO game mechanics that reference WoW are relevant. Talking about the Horde or Alliance in a thread titled 'Favorite FF Villain' is NOT.
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#56 Jul 16 2009 at 3:00 AM Rating: Good
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Shazaamemt wrote:
This is one of those points where the thread has been devolved by WoW players into a discussion simply about WoW.

And where many other players simply lose interest because the WoW fanboys can't contain themselves.

Dude, it's one post. And it was already off topic, we were talking about Kingdom Hearts before that.

You have GOT to get that stick out of your ***.
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#57Shazaamemt, Posted: Jul 16 2009 at 10:44 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) At least kingdom hearts has Final Fantasy in it...
#58 Jul 17 2009 at 7:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Shazaamemt wrote:
At least kingdom hearts has Final Fantasy in it...

Seriously you need to get this stick out of my ***.


Isn't that your boyfriend's job?
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#59 Jul 19 2009 at 2:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Kefka is the ultimate FF villain. He broke the world with his crazy! He has no ulterior motive or mommy/daddy issues. He's just a sick effer with a hard on for death and destruction.. He's like the 4-Chan of snuff!
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#60 Jul 19 2009 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Lefein wrote:
Kefka is the ultimate FF villain. He broke the world with his crazy! He has no ulterior motive or mommy/daddy issues. He's just a sick effer with a hard on for death and destruction.. He's like the 4-Chan of snuff!


4chan is the 4chan of snuff. Kefka is just the first /b/tard.
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#61 Jul 19 2009 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
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I remember having a discussion about FF villains in a Crisis Core forum.

I understand what some people are saying about making the villains less stereotypically "evil," more human, etc. But ultimately I agree that doing so detracts from the good v. evil plot. In reality, there's always a reason for people to do bad things, and when you know that reason it can be difficult NOT to sympathize with the person.

Crisis Core, for example, did ever so slightly humanize Sephiroth as a villain. I've never been afraid of being thought of as a Sephiroth fanboy-- I like Sephiroth as a villain (though he's not my favorite FF villain-- Kefka is). I think I would have liked Sephiroth less as a villain had I played Crisis Core first.

Or look at some movies. (Potential spoilers if you're completely out of the loop, I guess). Take a movie like Scream. I remember the first time I saw Scream, I thought it was a legitimately scary movie. Like Halloween in its time-- a serial killer goes around killing seemingly innocent people for no good reason. ****, a villain like that could even kill YOU, without any rhyme or reason. But then in the end, it's revealed that the killer has a motive (insane a motive as it is), and it ruined the movie for me. Not that I enjoy horror movies at all these days anyway.

Or what about the Joker in the latest Batman? He's an over the top, certifiable villain. And to make things even better, he offers background stories to humanize his situation, but he LIES about them.

Personally, I think humanizing a villain has its time and place, such as when you WANT to turn them into an antihero, or maybe a tragic hero, but the best main villains are always just plain insane.
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Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#62 Jul 19 2009 at 9:18 PM Rating: Good
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Your not afraid of Jason, your afraid of Death.
Your not afraid of The Joker, your afraid of Dangerous Insanity.
Your not afraid of Sephiroth....because he doesn't instill Fear. Awe, Pity, but never fear. And that's OK.

The evil-for-evil's-sake penchant of washing away all that makes one human and leaving them a living breathing symbol is a perfectly valid way to write a character. Fear is just a device writers use, to get you to assess the character as a threat and thus an 'other' you can easily villainize. It's a brilliant way to approach a villain, provided the it jives with the circumstances of the story. For example, in the case of Jason; we're watching a horror movie, the whole point of the movie is to instill fear in the audience, leaving Jason some unknown dehumanized avatar of death is wholly appropriate. So the later attempts to give the character some afterthought depth by pulling on our heartstrings feels out of place.

But the Final Fantasy series isn't a horror movie, we don't need to be afraid of someone to recognize them as the antagonist. Back when the FF series was a bit more 2 dimensional, in every respect, the writers fell back on the evil-for-evil's-sake because evoking that fear response in the audience was an easy way to craft a villain. FFI may have been lauded for it's storyline, but that was only in comparison to the save-the-princess competition. Evil-for-evil's-sake the way it was applied early in the series was kind of a cop out. Over time they began to explore other themes, where the true antagonist is abstract; a multitude of people, decisions, fate, circumstances.

This is not necessarily a superior approach to storytelling.
It's just a new weapon being added to the Videogame Industry's ******* that writers have had for years. I think the series and genre is better for having explored it. And I agree with you insomuch that I think it would do well not to let the fact evil-for-evil's-sake was explored in the series' less-well-written infancy remain as some kind of black mark to that method of approaching a villain. In a storyline that supports a more mysterious or symbolic approach, evil-for-evil's-sake can craft a truly inspiring villain (The Joker).

But tacking it on to any ole' storyline is a far cry from a recipe for success.



Edited, Jul 20th 2009 1:47am by Zemzelette
#63 Jul 19 2009 at 10:26 PM Rating: Good
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Well, first of all, *you're.

Secondly, I wouldn't be prepared to assert that a villain is something you need to be afraid of, or that the designers were making an attempt to do so. I don't think anyone is really afraid of the Joker, or Kefka.

I'm not disagreeing with you, per se, but my point was merely that in a grand Final Fantasy game, an incarnate evil as the ultimate villain is both appropriate and generally desirable. There can be any number of anti-heroes, tragic hero-villains, etc., in between, and these days there frequently are.

Look at Heroes (possible spoilers), where the main villain becomes an anti-hero, becomes humanized somewhat, and then reasserts himself as a main villain. In this case, the humanizing elements cast a light on the character that is quickly rendered irrelevant to his motives. And the show is still going, so there's no telling what role he'll play in the end.

It's not as if having an ultimate evil as the antagonist necessitates a linear plot. Play a game like Quest 64 if you want to see a crap plot, and then criticize any number of recent rescue-the-princess plots.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#64 Jul 19 2009 at 11:28 PM Rating: Good
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Honestly, can any of the FFXI players name a 'Main Villain' in any of the storylines? They were all deeply seeded, and you could sympathize with any of them, yet they completely made sense as a villain. Well... it might be hard to sympathize with the Zilart bros... but they had to wait a thousand years... and they founded Jeuno...

Nevermind, ***** them, they founded Jeuno... they must be the worst villains ever. Overpopulating SOBs.

I still vote Kefka, but the FFXI villains get my vote for best MMO villain ever. (Shadowlord)
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#65 Jul 22 2009 at 3:23 AM Rating: Good
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Kefka, Sephiroth, and although not FF Magus from Chrono Trigger, pretty evil up until you recruit him lol but he at one point does command the most destructive force known to man, Lavos.
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#66 Jul 22 2009 at 5:23 AM Rating: Good
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my 1st place villain is Bahamut he might be a summon, but he tried to kill Alexander in FF9, and in FF11 tried to bring apocalypse.

my 2nd place villain is Sin he kept the world in fear, and he had the best battle ever in my opinion when Yuna had to call her summons to end it all that was epic.

and finally my 3rd place villain is the Shadowlord. He might be weak but he started a major war that effected the whole world. And he is pure darkness what more evil than pure darkness.
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