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#1 Jul 20 2009 at 10:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hey all,

I came up with an idea that could possibly help players make money for gear and crafting and also help others in need of a way to make some quick gil. Also at the same time, helping others obtain those hard to find pieces of gear they may want, but never see in the AH; Or obtain items for crafting.

When setting up your Bazaar the idea I had was an option to let others sell you items as well. The way this would work is;

-Start to set up a Bazaar as you normally would
-You get the option to select Buy or Sell
-When Buy is selected you will get a list of items (all bazaarable items)
-Then once you find the item you want you choose how many you need, and give a price per item.

Now when players come to your bazaar they will be able to sell you items that you need, it could be armour, weapons, crafting materials ect... This also provides away for players to make better money then farming, and it can't be exploited as much as NPC sales, since it isn't a guarantee that the same item you were selling yesterday was gonna be around today, or the price changes by the player.
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#2 Jul 20 2009 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
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So you're saying that when someone checks your bazaar, they can go to a "sell" menu where they can see a list of items you're interested in buying (along with a price you've set) and sell directly to you?

Good idea. It increases the chances of sellers and buyers finding each other. Somebody with a stack of bone chips might be on their way to the auction house to get rid of them when they chance upon a bazaar who happens to be buying them. A deal is made right there to the benefit of both parties. Actually, a really good idea.

The only question I would have is whether both sides have to confirm the deal before it goes through. Would there be a dialog that popped up for the buyer that said "XXX wishes to sell you a Sword of Clobbering for 1250 gil. Accept?" Or would it be automatic from the bazaar's end? Maybe they could give options to set your preferences either way. Sometimes you might want control over each sale, and sometimes you might want to just leave yourself logged in overnight and come back to an inventory full of stuff you need. (Hopefully you could also set the max number you're willing to buy).

This should definitely be in the game.

At first I thought you were talking about getting other players to sell bazaar items for you, which is another neat idea. Suppose people examining your bazaar could choose an option to take up a consignment. They would take one of the items you're selling at no cost, but would be unable to use, sell, or drop it. It would go up in their bazaar, and when somebody bought it you would get the money but the seller would take a commission. It would get your merchandise out in the world, and it would be a great way for average people with some spare inventory space to make money.
#3 Jul 20 2009 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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The only time a "are you sure you want to do this" dialog should pop up is when you set the price. If I say I want x item per 100 gil, then why do I have to again accept it when someone offers it to me? Seems silly if they added an extra step.
#4 Jul 20 2009 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
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@Borkachev
The idea you had to start seems like alot of work, and would be alittle complicated, unless it could be done between you and a mule character somehow. Even then seems kinda silly,

For your question about having to accept the deal, it would be automatic, it would confirm you want to spend X amount of gil on X item, but it would work the same as though you were to sell and item in your Bazaar, no need for the player buying items to have to confirm it.
As for a set amount of items you are willing to buy, that's a must.
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#5 Jul 20 2009 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
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ToorimaHades wrote:
The idea you had to start seems like alot of work, and would be alittle complicated, unless it could be done between you and a mule character somehow.

I don't believe it is too complicated or difficult to implement. But I do think it is unnecessary with a a good AH system.

Bazaars, while they they can be fun, are functionally redundant and inferior to Auction Houses. Many FFXI players have come to just accept the idea, but I don't believe a game feature that encourages people to leave their game on while they aren't playing is a good one.
#6 Jul 20 2009 at 5:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I don't believe a game feature that encourages people to leave their game on while they aren't playing is a good one.


Well, why not? can you explain? It has many positive points, and the only con, could maybee be...power consumption? lol...
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#7 Jul 20 2009 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

Well, why not? can you explain? It has many positive points, and the only con, could maybee be...power consumption? lol...


Power consumption, server space, area space. If you have people on all day but not playing then you have a full server all day long. Also, if you have people bazarrin all day then there is probally one area where they all go, and this makes that place extremely laggy. This is why an Ah is set up in the first place, to let you sell and buy your goods from a broader audience, and so you can sell goods when your logged out.
#8 Jul 20 2009 at 5:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Power consumption, server space, area space. If you have people on all day but not playing then you have a full server all day long. Also, if you have people bazarrin all day then there is probally one area where they all go, and this makes that place extremely laggy. This is why an Ah is set up in the first place, to let you sell and buy your goods from a broader audience, and so you can sell goods when your logged out.



So by your reasoning, we should eliminate bazaar all together..because anyone wanting to sell items (or using my idea, buy some aswell) for the most part will have left the game, unless you want them to sit in front of the screen.

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#9 Jul 20 2009 at 7:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
So by your reasoning, we should eliminate bazaar all together..because anyone wanting to sell items (or using my idea, buy some aswell) for the most part will have left the game, unless you want them to sit in front of the screen.


No bazarr provides you with another way of buying and selling goods, but should not be close to the primary option. Meaning it is great to have in the game because its just another way to buy and sell goods, but it should not be the default way of doing it. I'm not saying that you should not stay logged in when your not playing, what I am saying is if it was the primary way and everybody stayed logged on then these problems would occur. A bazarr only works if people actually sees you, so that means there would be a popular bazarr spot. If everybody stay logged on to bazarr then that place would be laggy. Also the servers would be at high capacity all day everyday which, is not good and could run into server issues. I'm just stating that there is more negatives then just power consumption.
#10 Jul 20 2009 at 8:15 PM Rating: Good
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I love this idea. Being able to name a price for something I would buy is priceless when afk. **** Player A might not let go of item X for this price but Player B wants to because they need this amount of money to buy this item. They just need to find a buyer. If there was some sort of global search function to find items but you had to actually travel to where that person is for the transaction I would be all for it. Kind of like when a car is up for sale in a classified. I once was told that whoever got there first would have the first choice of buying or not. Not only does it make the hair on my back stand up but it scares the **** out of me cause I could get a sweet bargain or be beat out by someone who just walks up and decides that hey, "Maybe I could turn this for a profit".

It helps competition in a buyers and sellers market.
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#11 Jul 20 2009 at 8:46 PM Rating: Decent
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ToorimaHades wrote:
Well, why not? can you explain? It has many positive points, and the only con, could maybee be...power consumption? lol...

Because the game isn't requiring the player to do anything, so why should the player be online? What's the point of a game that plays itself? If a feature encourages players to go afk while in the game, then obviously it is a poorly designed feature because the player would rather be doing something else other than playing the game.

It has zero positive points. Bazaars are entirely unnecessary. The auction house fulfills their exact purpose and to a far better degree than the bazaar.
#12 Jul 20 2009 at 9:17 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:

Because the game isn't requiring the player to do anything, so why should the player be online? What's the point of a game that plays itself? If a feature encourages players to go afk while in the game, then obviously it is a poorly designed feature because the player would rather be doing something else other than playing the game.


This was the problem with FFXII.

I hope SE learned.
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#13 Jul 20 2009 at 9:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
ToorimaHades wrote:
Well, why not? can you explain? It has many positive points, and the only con, could maybee be...power consumption? lol...

Because the game isn't requiring the player to do anything, so why should the player be online? What's the point of a game that plays itself? If a feature encourages players to go afk while in the game, then obviously it is a poorly designed feature because the player would rather be doing something else other than playing the game.

It has zero positive points. Bazaars are entirely unnecessary. The auction house fulfills their exact purpose and to a far better degree than the bazaar.


There would have to be some heavy changes to the auction house then if you want it to replace bazaars. I think the bazaar is a great idea. Sure it encourages you to go afk, but is it that bad to go afk? Do you really want to play the game 24/7? Bazaar's aren't entirely unnecessary if you looked at how they were used in FFXI.

Think about it:

- Only 7 items allowed up on AH at once
- Grueling tax fee
- Unknown item pricing (ex: Trying to buy that 1 lonely speed belt but not knowing the price, where as in a bazaar, you have a chance to get it at a lower or higher price, depending on your negotiation skills.)
- No option for WTB, like the idea that is being suggested here.

There are some more but I can't think about it right now. My only worry though about this advanced bazaar is that it might clutter the game a bit more and cause lag as someone earlier said but we'll see what happens when the game is released. ;)

Edited, Jul 21st 2009 1:20am by EpedemicOptikz
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#14 Jul 20 2009 at 9:40 PM Rating: Default
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Allegory wrote:
ToorimaHades wrote:
Well, why not? can you explain? It has many positive points, and the only con, could maybee be...power consumption? lol...

Because the game isn't requiring the player to do anything, so why should the player be online? What's the point of a game that plays itself? If a feature encourages players to go afk while in the game, then obviously it is a poorly designed feature because the player would rather be doing something else other than playing the game.

It has zero positive points. Bazaars are entirely unnecessary. The auction house fulfills their exact purpose and to a far better degree than the bazaar.


lol im glad this thread took this turn. i got really frustated with this retarded idea but im very glad you have said this allegory. It has to be said. Thank you!
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#15 Jul 20 2009 at 10:32 PM Rating: Decent
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EpedemicOptikz wrote:
There would have to be some heavy changes to the auction house then if you want it to replace bazaars.

No, not really.
EpedemicOptikz wrote:
I think the bazaar is a great idea. Sure it encourages you to go afk, but is it that bad to go afk? Do you really want to play the game 24/7?

I don't want to go afk or play 24/7, and I shouldn't be forced to choose. When I'm done playing a game I should be done playing the game. There should be no reason to leave a game on when I'm not actually playing.
EpedemicOptikz wrote:
- Only 7 items allowed up on AH at once
- Grueling tax fee
- Unknown item pricing (ex: Trying to buy that 1 lonely speed belt but not knowing the price, where as in a bazaar, you have a chance to get it at a lower or higher price, depending on your negotiation skills.)
- No option for WTB, like the idea that is being suggested here.

Because the FFXI auction house is awkward and poorly implemented. A normal auction house like you find in most other MMORPGs completely replaces and expands upon bazaars. You're thinking within the confines of FFXI instead of what is possible.

Edited, Jul 21st 2009 1:36am by Allegory
#16 Jul 21 2009 at 1:25 AM Rating: Good
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Why not just have a feature where you could simply deploy your bazaar instead?
What if they would add a feature where by talking to your moogle for example, you could setup a shop (indicating if you want a 'buy' bazaar or 'sell' and specify what you want) and then your shop would be relocated in an area in the main town specifically for bazaars where they would all be lined up neatly (since it would be an automatic function) and when all the items would sell/be bought, then it will disappear and reappear in your mog house. That way you don't need to leave your character afk at night, it will reduce lag because the shops would be arranged efficiently in an area specific to this, and would be very easy to use and effective.
Another idea would be to simply be able to deploy your shop anywhere you're standing and then if it sells, would appear in your mog house or it you just wanna call it back then just use a function in your menu that calls it back to you.
#17 Jul 21 2009 at 5:05 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not exactly sure why you are presenting this as an original idea. It's used in many MMOs.

While I do generally enjoy the concept, my main complaint with it, is that pricing scams are more frequent in this type of system. This is due to people typically wanting to sell their less-valuable items as quickly as possible.

So I'm on the fence on the subject.

AuriousSir wrote:
Bazaars, while they they can be fun, are functionally redundant and inferior to Auction Houses. Many FFXI players have come to just accept the idea, but I don't believe a game feature that encourages people to leave their game on while they aren't playing is a good one.

There is no real reason why these systems require people to stay online.

Allow a person to set up a shop. Make it so they don't have to stand by it while it's there. Make it despawn after 24 hours, and have to be set up again at that point (to prevent the server from being spammed by abandoned stores)

Done. Easy as pie.

EDIT: I know at least one game, that allows you to log out while you had your bazaar set up, and the shop would stay open for 72 hours, or until you next logged on (whichever came first).

Edited, Jul 21st 2009 9:10am by Karelyn
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#18 Jul 21 2009 at 5:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Karelyn wrote:
AuriousSir wrote:
Bazaars, while they they can be fun, are functionally redundant and inferior to Auction Houses. Many FFXI players have come to just accept the idea, but I don't believe a game feature that encourages people to leave their game on while they aren't playing is a good one.

There is no real reason why these systems require people to stay online.

Allow a person to set up a shop. Make it so they don't have to stand by it while it's there. Make it despawn after 24 hours, and have to be set up again at that point (to prevent the server from being spammed by abandoned stores)

Done. Easy as pie.

EDIT: I know at least one game, that allows you to log out while you had your bazaar set up, and the shop would stay open for 72 hours, or until you next logged on (whichever came first).

Confusing Aurelius and I? Boo Karelyn, boo.

Yes, you're entirely correct. There is no reason a person needs to be logged into the game to run a bazaar. But more fundamental that that is that there is no reason for bazaars in the first place.

What the OP is suggesting is an improvement to the bazaar system. I acknowledge that it could be further improved, and that it was silly to encourage players to afk. But in addition to that I pointed out that the ah is entirely redundant and superior to bazaars. The AH is a bazaar, except that instead of manually walking from person to person you can check all of their bazaars at once. It already addresses the silliness of having to be logged in to sell wares.

Bazaars add nothing to the game besides flavor. They're cosmetic.
#19 Jul 21 2009 at 5:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
Yes, you're entirely correct. There is no reason a person needs to be logged into the game to run a bazaar. But more fundamental that that is that there is no reason for bazaars in the first place.


Bazaars add nothing to the game besides flavor. They're cosmetic.

There is no strict need for Bazaars. However, I personally feel that they add an interesting new level to the community.

It doesn't take very long in a Bazaar system, for certain shops to gain reputation, much like normal players gain their reputation with each other.

I think it enhances the immersion in the world, to see familiar shops opened in familiar locations, selling familiar items.

Do we really need to continue to strip everything cosmetic from MMOs?

Edited, Jul 21st 2009 9:52am by Karelyn
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#20 Jul 21 2009 at 6:41 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Bazaars, while they they can be fun, are functionally redundant and inferior to Auction Houses. Many FFXI players have come to just accept the idea, but I don't believe a game feature that encourages people to leave their game on while they aren't playing is a good one.

Not even touching on the AFK issue, it's silly to claim that bazaars are redundant or cosmetic. They serve plenty of uses.

The big one is convenience. While the auction house is set up in a major city, a bazaar can be out where it's needed. In FFXI people would sell sneak/invis potions at the entrance of dangerous areas, chocobo raising items at the chocobo stables, and crafting items at the crafting guilds. This was a valuable service.

There's also their use in featuring items. Bazaars are the billboards of the MMO world. When you check a bazaar you might find an item you'd forgotten about or never heard of before. It gives profile to items that would otherwise be buried in the AH list.

Those two advantages are the reason I suggested the "consignment" system above. One hot dog stand can reach some customers, but a chain of mobile hot dog franchises can reach many. But there are other bonuses.

They serve as an effective black market. Often people who want to get rid of items in a hurry will price them below the going rate in their bazaar so they can sell them without harming the price history. And occasionally someone who really needs an item today will buy it from a bazaar at a higher price while leaving the AH price history low so they can still buy for cheap there in the future.

And there are some other minor advantages. In FFXI, for instance, when you needed to provide several members of your party with food or something, it was easier to put them up in your bazaar than to initiate trades with everyone. And then there are the uses someone else mentioned in avoiding the restrictions of that game's AH -- taxes, item limits, unknown pricing. While those exact restrictions might not be in FFXIV's AH, you can bet that it will have some restrictions of its own.

Arguing that bazaars are inferior and therefore useless is a lot like arguing that because there's a Walmart downtown, every other store in the city is redundant.

Edit:

Karelyn wrote:
It doesn't take very long in a Bazaar system, for certain shops to gain reputation, much like normal players gain their reputation with each other.

Oh yeah, I forgot this one. Bazaars let you establish a brand and reputation in a way that isn't possible on the semi-anonymous auction house.

Edited, Jul 21st 2009 9:43am by Borkachev
#21 Jul 21 2009 at 7:00 AM Rating: Decent
Bazaars were a response to hardware limitations on the auction servers.

Also, PS3 players are complaining that their shiny new PS3 blu-ray emitters are getting cooked after a few hours of play with various different games. 24/7 bazaars like we saw in FFXI are not advisable for PS3 players, so if the "economy" is going to be built around a limited auction system with the overflow going to bazaars, there are going to be a lot of PS3 players who will not feel comfortable risking their hardware for the sake of a few extra gil.

Bazaars added flavor to FFXI. They also added (drumroll please!) another time sink. It's one thing if you want to go cruising bazaars and you're having fun doing it. It's another thing if you're looking for a particular item (Hakutaku eyes come to mind) and you have to jet off to the bazaar farm and go from one toon to the next checking their wares. I would say that outside of the bazaar farms, well over half the people running around with a little bazaar icon next to their name are listing flowers or mementos for 99,999,999 gil more to keep themselves from accidentally dropping it or selling it to an NPC than anything else.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating: a savvy MMO developer is going to take a look at all of the functions in their game and consider it not just from the "fresh player" perspective but also from the perspective of a player who has been around for a while. They're going to look at the function and ask themselves, "Is the 'flavor' this function adds going to justify the impact that it can have on the experience?" I know that shopping bazaar farms was tedious and irritating for as many people (if not more) as it was for the people who enjoyed it.

Bazaars are a dated concept and I'd be surprised if they made it into FFXIV.
#22 Jul 21 2009 at 7:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Also, PS3 players are complaining that their shiny new PS3 blu-ray emitters are getting cooked after a few hours of play with various different games. 24/7 bazaars like we saw in FFXI are not advisable for PS3 players, so if the "economy" is going to be built around a limited auction system with the overflow going to bazaars, there are going to be a lot of PS3 players who will not feel comfortable risking their hardware for the sake of a few extra gil.

Eh? PS2 was the system with optical drive issues, not PS3. If PS3 has problems, they're statistically insignificant compared to its predecessor.

In any case, the game will most likely be run entirely from the hard drive. Anything that would need to be read while you're AFKing in a city certainly will be.

Quote:
Bazaars were a response to hardware limitations on the auction servers.

I've never heard anything that would support that theory except what you just said.

#23 Jul 21 2009 at 7:58 AM Rating: Decent
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^^ my PS3 has been on for weeks at a time, with games left on, sometimes just on the menu, more often then not I leave it on the Life with playstation mode... PS3 never has over heating issues, unless ur being silly with it... but anyways back to the normal topic....


I like the idea of being able to log out and have a bazaar going for 24hrs then closing, maybee 72hrs though, I do have a life out side of games, so when Im not around the feature would help me from falling behind to much while away..


For those of you complaining aboutl it's not fair that I have to stay logged in" and "i don't wana have a game that encourages being afk" ... Well your wrong, plain and simple .. you are wrong. Because the ability to do so is in the game, doesn't mean you have to do so. In FFXI I never bothered with Pokemon, I mean pankriation, but it's still in the game, Do I have to use it? No. All the end game events, all the crafting, they are in the game... Do you have to use it ??? NO!
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#24 Jul 21 2009 at 9:23 AM Rating: Good
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I'd like to see bazaars return in FFXIV. Some one with a well run bazaar ends up being as valuable as any other shop, and they add some atmosphere to the game that frankly would be lacking otherwise. I don't know how to explain it, but the fact that there are 4-5 squatters selling their wares when I come out of my mog house, sometimes the same ones, sometimes different, makes the game world seem like more of a living place.

It would be nice if bazaars could operate without being logged into the game, but maybe some other sort of limiting factor should exist to cut down on the number of bazaars operating at any particular moment.
#25 Jul 21 2009 at 9:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
For those of you complaining aboutl it's not fair that I have to stay logged in" and "i don't wana have a game that encourages being afk" ... Well your wrong, plain and simple .. you are wrong. Because the ability to do so is in the game, doesn't mean you have to do so. In FFXI I never bothered with Pokemon, I mean pankriation, but it's still in the game, Do I have to use it? No. All the end game events, all the crafting, they are in the game... Do you have to use it ??? NO!


You are wrong lol, there is a big difference between features for pure enjoyment and features that effect the game in a major way. Pankriation is a feature for pure enjoyment, while a bazarr feature could take over as being the default way to sell and buy goods. This means the AH will have way less goods, and bazarrs would rule as the way to buy and sell goods. A huge difference in having a miny game that doesnt effect the game, and a bazarr feature that controls the whole economic system in the game. You don't have to play pankriation if you don't want to, but if items are not in the AH you would have to go search bazarrs.


Edited, Jul 21st 2009 1:44pm by HocusP
#26 Jul 21 2009 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
Borkachev wrote:
Eh? PS2 was the system with optical drive issues, not PS3. If PS3 has problems, they're statistically insignificant compared to its predecessor.


Many, many PS3 users are complaining that after 1.5-2 years of use, the laser unit fails. Google will tell you as much.

Quote:
Quote:
Bazaars were a response to hardware limitations on the auction servers.

I've never heard anything that would support that theory except what you just said.


Well, considering FFXI's auction house system is the only one I've seen in any MMO that can lag out and be unavailable for extended periods of time due to excessive load, I'd say it's a pretty sound theory, wouldn't you? Ever wonder why there was such a strict limit to how much you could list on auction at any given time? Hardware limitations. As MMO developers have grown to understand the importance of a reliable, robust auction system, the concept of the bazaar has gone the way of the dinosaur.

Edited, Jul 21st 2009 2:51pm by AureliusSir
#27 Jul 21 2009 at 3:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Karelyn wrote:
Do we really need to continue to strip everything cosmetic from MMOs?

We don't, but it is a curious activity to improve the functionality of a feature that specifically is supposed to not be very functional.
#28 Jul 21 2009 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent
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How about throwing out the old auction house and the bazaar system? Why not use a system that's already proven as a means of matching buyers and sellers?

I mean, of course the stock market. Let everyone who wants to sell items post the price(s) you're willing to take for the items, depositing the item and some fee (say 1% of your asking price). Let everyone who wants to buy items bid the price(s) they're willing to pay, depositing the money (and some fee). Make the currently available bids and prices public knowledge. Whenever a player inputs a price below a current bid, or a bid above a current price, complete the transaction without fee for that player.

#29 Jul 21 2009 at 5:53 PM Rating: Default
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ROSE online has this system implemented.
You can buy/sell items from your bazaar.
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#30 Jul 21 2009 at 6:01 PM Rating: Decent
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righteousfury wrote:
Let everyone who wants to sell items post the price(s) you're willing to take for the items, depositing the item and some fee (say 1% of your asking price). Let everyone who wants to buy items bid the price(s) they're willing to pay, depositing the money (and some fee). Make the currently available bids and prices public knowledge. Whenever a player inputs a price below a current bid, or a bid above a current price, complete the transaction without fee for that player.

That is essentially an auction house. You've only added an extra feature.
#31 Jul 21 2009 at 6:26 PM Rating: Decent
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I dunno...I don't really like decentralizing the market for several reasons:

1. It would make prices region specific, making it harder to find a good price for your wares...or finding or selling what you need at all.
2. With fewer items on the AH the prices will fluctuate more.
3. Also with fewer items the market would be more susceptible to RMT actions.
4. If SE really screws up with the AH people might drop it altogether, making the previous reasons even worse.

I would personally rather see a duty free AH with a number of locations around the world that are linked together than Bazaars.

Perhaps people with a high skill in crafting could have a bazaar so they can buy and sell in places with limited accessibility to an AH (like outside of a dungeon or some such thing). I like that idea.
#32 Jul 22 2009 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

Well, considering FFXI's auction house system is the only one I've seen in any MMO that can lag out and be unavailable for extended periods of time due to excessive load, I'd say it's a pretty sound theory, wouldn't you? Ever wonder why there was such a strict limit to how much you could list on auction at any given time? Hardware limitations.

FFXI's auction house and search system are on servers separate from the main game. They have limitations, but not in the sense you're talking about. The bazaar system saves them nothing, because it just transfers the load that would be on the auction servers to the main servers. For cost reasons, the company uses the minimum capacity AH servers they can get away with, but they could easily add more. They have to pay to handle that load one way or another, and there is no fundamental limitation to auction capacity. It's all server side.
#33 Jul 22 2009 at 9:40 AM Rating: Decent
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lambon wrote:
ROSE online has this system implemented.
You can buy/sell items from your bazaar.

Dozens of MMOs have this system, not just ROSE Online.

I have only played a handful of MMOs which don't have a Bazaar system.

My sample might be skewed, as I only play MMOs which are PvE based, but I'd venture to guess well over half of PvE-based MMOs have a Bazaar system (with or without the addition of an Auction House as well)

I still say the best part of a Bazaar, is the stores go to where they are needed. Hey look, there is a Popular dungeon! Betcha they'll be at least dozen venders parked outside of that dungeon. Maybe they have a 5-10% markup over stores that would be in a major town, but the convenience is enough that they make great business, and everyone loves being able to shop there.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2009 1:43pm by Karelyn
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#34 Jul 22 2009 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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What scares me are the players who want "ONE" way of doing business. More options are always better then just one centralized one which will in the end, get monopolized to ****. No matter how the AH gets "fixed" there will be holes that need to be filled by a different method of buying and selling. Think of how many times you'll have to relist an item because it doesn't sell and everyone and their mom is trying to sell it also. The price plummets until a group of players buy all of them on the AH everyday then start highballing them. Especially Quest/Mission items.

There always has to be a secondary means to fall back on. So far Bazaaring is the means we know. Whether it's a bazaar or not there has to be a secondary way of doing business.

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#35 Jul 22 2009 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Allegory, I've "added" two features, visibility of current prices (and I assume a price history would still be available in case there's no current action on an item) and availability of bids which give sellers the opportunity to unload their stuff right now if they so choose. It's not my idea anyway, it's what generations of people have found is the most efficient method, for all involved, to match buyers and sellers. I don't know why MMOs feel a need to reinvent the wheel.

Displace (and others), I'm speaking for myself here, but I want my trading with other players to be in one place because I want to spend the minimum possible amount of time on that part of the game and more, you know, playing the game. If there's too much supply of something the price is going to drop because most everyone has trouble selling it, that's just a basic truism of life. In an MMO, you can always go sell it to an NPC (or you should always have the option).

I see where the local shops may be of value, such as near dungeons (particularly if the dungeons are instanced and take different forms depending on what item is spent gaining entry). I just don't want them in cities where I'm forced to go price hunting in every single one. Maybe lesser towns would have a stock market representative who would charge extra fees for it's use making locally produced items cheaper at bazaars that could only be set up outside cities and towns?
#36 Jul 22 2009 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
How about an idea where you can buy items that add functionality to your bazaar system? At the start, if you want to bazaar it works in a very basic way, but if you want to really get into it, you could buy items like a sitting mat that appears when you plop down to bazaar which gives you extra slots or something like that, or maybe for more expensive levels a little table and chair you set up when you plop down that also gives you the functionality to request buying items also?
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#37 Jul 22 2009 at 12:10 PM Rating: Decent
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digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
How about an idea where you can buy items that add functionality to your bazaar system? At the start, if you want to bazaar it works in a very basic way, but if you want to really get into it, you could buy items like a sitting mat that appears when you plop down to bazaar which gives you extra slots or something like that, or maybe for more expensive levels a little table and chair you set up when you plop down that also gives you the functionality to request buying items also?

I've seen something akin to this in several games. Usually it's nothing more than cosmetic. But it's a great way to identify shops at a glance which have a long track record of being good merchants.

A person who has a fancy shop which has been expanded and has flowers or whatever, odds are belongs to a person who is successful enough to afford the extras.

...

I'll admit, one of the main reasons I'm big on a Bazaar system, is I've always been a really big and fairly well-known merchant in every MMO I've played. The economy is part of what makes MMOs really fun for me. And Bazaars are a lot more fun than an Auction House system.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2009 4:14pm by Karelyn
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#38 Jul 22 2009 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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I like the idea of a item shop given to the player and a board for owner to put up what they are looking to buy

Edited, Jul 23rd 2009 4:08pm by Ruam
#39 Jul 22 2009 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Everyone against this idea is focusing on one point; It will kill the AH, no not really... not even close. If someone wants to sell some items AH will still be a better way way to go, players will want to play the game, and thus need a way to sell items while not in town with a bazaar. So the AH will be needed.
example.
-Player A. wants to sell a Sword.
-Player B. wants to buy said Sword.
-What is the chance that Player A. will find Player B. and be able to sell the sword? Not very high. But this doesn't mean this bazaar feature won't work. It only means that it won't be the only way to sell.

Also, who says AH has to be primary? why can't bazaar? or better yet... Why can't the be both just as useful?
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#40 Jul 22 2009 at 4:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Also, who says AH has to be primary? why can't bazaar? or better yet... Why can't the be both just as useful?


Because this is not a perfect world and the most convenient way will become the primary way of doing things. I always looked at a bazaar as a way to sell things on the move and in front of areas, not as a feature that should be competing with the AH in any way, shape, or form. The Ah should be the primary way because it reaches a broader audience and things are easier and more convenient to look up. An AH can hold thousands of times the items a player can or will be able to hold and is in an central place.





Edited, Jul 22nd 2009 8:59pm by HocusP
#41 Jul 22 2009 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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yeah, thats why in my explination I said the AH will still be a important to the game. But why not make the Bazaar better, When I started this thread, and posted I never said the Bazaar will or should be better than the AH, I just added another way to improve an already existing thing.
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#42 Jul 23 2009 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
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The Ah should be the primary way because it reaches a broader audience and things are easier and more convenient to look up. An AH can hold thousands of times the items a player can or will be able to hold and is in an central place.

And that's why the AH will always be the most popular way of doing business. I don't know where this fear that a better bazaar would take away from the AH comes from. There's zero chance of that happening.
#43 Jul 23 2009 at 8:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
And that's why the AH will always be the most popular way of doing business. I don't know where this fear that a better bazaar would take away from the AH comes from. There's zero chance of that happening.


I'm all for a better bazarr, everything can be improved on. Just not a lot of the ideas of this thread, because if made to good it will compete with the Ah, and lead to fewer items on the AH. Like if everyone or a lot of people was encouraged to bazarr overnight, its a reason why they are encouraged to do so. Its because a lot of people are buying there goods, and if this was increased a ton, then there would be less items on the AH. That goes back to competing with the Ah and the problems that comes with it. A better bazarr feature ok, but a bazarr as a main focus no.
#44 Jul 24 2009 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
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No one in this thread even hinted at Bazaaring as the main focus of buying and selling except you HocusP.

Bazaaring only works for hard to find/specialized items/crafting. Do you really think someone is going to take the time to search through peoples bazaar when they can just hit an AH or have a friend check an AH in a different town? Especially since how the Ah economy can fluctuate from hour to hour which makes prices in bazaars either good or usually aweful. Once the AH option is depleted Bazaars step in to fill the gap. We're just brain storming ideas to make bazaars more useful to those who use them and do business of that kind. If you don't use them that's great... don't. But stop ******** in every thread that you don't agree with just to disagree.

Bazaaring will never be able to compete with the AH. The time, location, and traffic of level of players are all factors into a successful bazaar. The AH is a centralized place of business, it's the ******* Walmart of Final Fantasy. Where a bazaar is a lemonade stand. The AH has everything where Bazaars are more specific toward a trade, rare items, garage sale, or going out of business (ie: quitting the game/ or a trade).
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#45 Jul 24 2009 at 6:58 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Quote:
Bazaars were a response to hardware limitations on the auction servers.

I've never heard anything that would support that theory except what you just said.


I heard that they had to make the AH only 7 items due to PS2 limitations... I don't know if that is true but it's what I've heard.

Every MMO I've ever played has had some form of bazaar for players. Seeing that the AH can only hold 7 items at a time and I craft, it's nice to leave my bazaar mule up while I'm at college or sleeping. If I had to sell items 7 at a time and randomly when I'm running around with my bazaar up (which also takes up inventory space that I need for gear or farming) it would take forever to sell items.

The AH also charges money and I'm not even assured it will sell since people love to undercut on the AH, or it might not be an item someone is looking for. I don't have to worry about being charged my for bazaar items and they can sell on their own time with no gil loss to me. If I have a item a player wants, I think it's a greater chance that they will find my mule that is always in one place than a character that is constantly on the move.

Anyway if I'm paying for a game then when I can play I want to actually play... not worry about how I'm going to sell stuff, if I have room on AH, or if I have room to put it on my main while I play. I'm all for bazaars, it's always been very useful to me when I'm asleep, at college, doing homework etc... I've even put up a full bazaar and come back the next morning to find almost everything sold. Over all I would say my bazaar is better than the AH, and has made me a better profit! =D

To the OP... I think it's an interesting idea, putting the price of an item a player wants in their 'bazaar' and if someone like's the price and is selling said item they could just take the money and leave the player the item. We would have to see if and how SE would do it, but over all an interesting idea. ^_^

Edited, Jul 24th 2009 11:02pm by YfandesofBismarck
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