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#1 Jul 22 2009 at 10:40 AM Rating: Decent
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amor decay. I loved in FFXI how armor would not be worn down. That part of WoW got me to quit quite quickly. Also, I like the menu options. The "magic -> choose spell" instead of most MMO's "everything is on the screen for you to press". Of course, if it is being released for the PS3, I don't think I have to worry about that.

Just please.... PLEASE SE. Keep one of the MANY things you did right with FFXI and don't have armor you have to repair.
#2 Jul 22 2009 at 10:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I honestly wouldn't mind a repair/upkeep mechanic if it was done well. That "done well" is the key, though; every single implementation I've ever seen, from tabletop P&P games to single-player video games to MMOs has been terrible.

So, if Squeenix can hit the nail square on the head (no pun intended), I'm all for it. If there's just a hint of waffleface on the finish of the game, I'll hate it.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2009 2:52pm by CapnCrass

Edited, Jul 22nd 2009 2:52pm by CapnCrass
#3 Jul 22 2009 at 10:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, first off, I will say, I'm not a fan of armour decay either, and I would prefer FFXIV not to have it.

However this would depend on how the mechanics of the game work, there are times when it is a necessary evil to have in a game, for economical reasons.

There can also be an argument for fans of realizim, in that it is a bit unrealistic to have armour that does not wear out with use.
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#4 Jul 22 2009 at 10:55 AM Rating: Decent
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There can also be an argument for fans of realizim, in that it is a bit unrealistic to have armour that does not wear out with use.


Isn't it also unrealistic to be a cat-person though? Or a Taru? Or a Galka? o.O
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#5 Jul 22 2009 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Or... you know... live in a video-game... with Avatars... and Chocobos... airships... crags... air fish... Vanadiel... beastmen... SL.... magic... linkshells... insta-tells.... dragons...

I'm just sayin'. Realism isn't the focus of any FF game, lol.
#6 Jul 22 2009 at 11:54 AM Rating: Decent
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You guys misunderstand what people mean when they say realism, and sound absolutely ridiculous when you try to argue your points. Just saying.
#7 Jul 22 2009 at 12:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Grogrog wrote:
You guys misunderstand what people mean when they say realism, and sound absolutely ridiculous when you try to argue your points. Just saying.


Is it realistic that almost all the armor in most games nowadays fits all sizes, taru to galka?

If that's not a proper retort then I don't know what you're looking for.
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#8 Jul 22 2009 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
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You guys misunderstand what people mean when they say realism, and sound absolutely ridiculous when you try to argue your points. Just saying.


People mean is it realistic in the FF universe or in the spectrum of the FF world. In the FF universe, armor breaking has not been included and I think it will not be included in FFXIV either. When people say realistic most people do compare it to realistic in real life. When you compare something to being realistic in real life then you open yourself up for people saying that form of realism in return.

Quote:
There can also be an argument for fans of realizim, in that it is a bit unrealistic to have armour that does not wear out with use.


Comments like this is comparing it to real life and this opens yourself up for people to bring up things like magic and stuff. In the ff universe armor never really had to be repaired so why would it be unrealistic in any other way besides real life? When you use realism and then use real life as a reference then you open yourself up for a whole talk about realism between real life and magic.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2009 5:06pm by HocusP
#9 Jul 22 2009 at 5:42 PM Rating: Good
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armor decay as a gil sink is not really a fair gilsink i think. because tanks obviously pay WAY more gil than mages in this gil sink. Unlike for example airships or chocobo's or AH. everybody needs to use those.


So i vote no. keep gilsinks in FFXIV like they were implemented in FFXI. pretty ok imo.
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#10 Jul 22 2009 at 5:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Armor decay is a great way to remove excess money from the system. Binded items are also a great way to keep the crafting market rolling by removing items from the system once someone is done with them.

I vote yes. Smiley: nod
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#11 Jul 22 2009 at 6:14 PM Rating: Default
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What about just having armour degrade aesthetically, lose its shine, colour, etc. requiring repair/retailoring, if you want a gil sink. Each repair could become costlier and costlier, so eventually you'd need to buy a new piece if you wanted to keep looking good. Significantly used crafted gear wouldn't be sellable, but could be broken down for scrap materials easily.

With rare, exceptional items, they wouldn't degrade or the cost of repair/retailoring would be fixed.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2009 10:15pm by Dizmo
#12 Jul 22 2009 at 8:17 PM Rating: Good
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I can understand your distaste for durability. When I came from FFXI to WoW I at first did not like it either. I hated the idea of upkeep costs in most any game. But once I got used to the system I realized it wasn't bad at all, and it serves a very beneficial purpose.
#13 Jul 22 2009 at 8:31 PM Rating: Default
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Isn't there already an equipment durability thread?

Oh yeah, I made it...
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#14 Jul 23 2009 at 12:09 AM Rating: Decent
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They also better not include silly achievements.
#15 Jul 23 2009 at 1:29 AM Rating: Decent
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No to armour durability loss.

No to silly achievements, In WoW you literally get one for jumping off a cliff.
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#16 Jul 23 2009 at 4:54 AM Rating: Good
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Sahaya wrote:
No to silly achievements, In WoW you literally get one for jumping off a cliff.


What's wrong with "silly" achievements.

And note that you don't get that achievement for "jumping off a cliff", you get it for surviving the fall...
#17 Jul 23 2009 at 5:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Ok, before I make this argument, I want to make sure everyone understands I do not want armour decay in FFXIV, however:

HocusP wrote:
In the ff universe armor never really had to be repaired so why would it be unrealistic in any other way besides real life?


Well, just as a simple example, while in FFXI, no, we didn't have to repair armour, which would be getting hit, however pickaxes for mining would break from use, that in of itself could be argued to be inconsistent, if armour doesn't wear out from being hit, why should a pickaxe break from use?

So while they did not have amour decay in FFXI (or any other FF game that I can think of) they have had item's break from use, so the realizim for armour decay can still be argued within the FF universe.

Edited, Jul 23rd 2009 9:51am by manam
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#18 Jul 23 2009 at 6:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, just as a simple example, while in FFXI, no, we didn't have to repair armour, which would be getting hit, however pickaxes for mining would break from use, that in of itself could be argued to be inconsistent, if armour doesn't wear out from being hit, why should a pickaxe break from use?

So while they did not have amour decay in FFXI (or any other FF game that I can think of) they have had item's break from use, so the realizim for armour decay can still be argued within the FF universe.


Two very different things, a pickaxe has to break or you could just mine forever on one pickaxe. You don't make money on the gear you wear, but you do make money mining. Anything that broke, was usually items you used to make money like pickaxes. Even then pickaxes didn't lose durability, they just had a random chance of breaking. Once again you make money off mining, and it would be really easy if you could use 1 pickaxe forever. Gear is a whole different thing and is not used to directly make money.

Edited, Jul 23rd 2009 10:07am by HocusP
#19 Jul 23 2009 at 6:10 AM Rating: Good
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You make money on the gear you make though. That is not entirely different at all.

Artisans would never have to worry about running out of recipes to profit on. If you make different sets of armor situational for many different fights, you will keep crafters constantly busy gearing up people for the numerous occasions.
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#20 Jul 23 2009 at 6:24 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't think you're getting the point, though. H.E.L.M. is different from what you wear. I understand a sickle or pickaxe breaking. That's not something you keep on you at all times. It doesn't have stats that are important.

Times when I'm xping in a far-away-from-town area for hours on end, I don't want to have to stop because my best piece of armor is almost broken.
#21 Jul 23 2009 at 6:33 AM Rating: Decent
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You make money on the gear you make though. That is not entirely different at all.

Artisans would never have to worry about running out of recipes to profit on. If you make different sets of armor situational for many different fights, you will keep crafters constantly busy gearing up people for the numerous occasions.


Mining is directly making money and is an activity, wearing gear is just wearing gear. Sure you can craft gear to make money but the materials just don't magically appear, you either have to farm or buy them. Mining however is finding a point on the map that does just magically appear and doing an activity that directly makes money. In FF gear has never decayed (not just FFXI but FF in general), so saying its not realistic is off because we are in the FF world. Remember FF is not a new game like most MMOs are, FF is a long franchise that stays true to the FF name but also tweeks things along the way. Pickaxes also doesn't necessarily decay or lose durability, they just have a chance at breaking. You can improve your chances of not breaking with mining gear. Same as a gear synthesis has a chance at breaking and losing the ingredients.

Edited, Jul 23rd 2009 10:34am by HocusP
#22 Jul 23 2009 at 6:37 AM Rating: Good
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TaylorFatalis wrote:
Times when I'm xping in a far-away-from-town area for hours on end, I don't want to have to stop because my best piece of armor is almost broken.

Most of the games that have armor durability don't have these problems. A lot of these games are quest heavy, which means there are several towns and settlements in a zone, which means they're rarely more than 15 minutes away and almsot never more than 30 minutes away. They also usually require you to head back to pick up more quests anyway, so you're never going out of your way to repair.

There also is a fairly slow decay which means you are almost never in danger of armor breaking. I don't know the average duration, but you could probably grind nonstop for 10 hours in WoW without having to repair. Regardless, it is an arbitrarily long amount of time, one that you should never see without deliberately trying for it. It also takes 10 deaths to take armor to break, which is a fairly large amount of breathing room for most players.

Any problem you have along these lines, not that I've ever seen anyone have these problems, could be easily fixed by increasing the total durability of items. If it took 100 deaths and a week of straight grinding to reduce an item to 0 durability, could you still make your complaints?

Edited, Jul 23rd 2009 9:38am by Allegory
#23 Jul 23 2009 at 6:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Sahaya wrote:
No to silly achievements, In WoW you literally get one for jumping off a cliff.

... There are games in the world besides FFXI and WoW you know.

WAR did it first. WoW borrowed the idea from WAR.

In WAR, there is an achievement for killing a player while you are transformed into a chicken <.<
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#24 Jul 23 2009 at 6:47 AM Rating: Good
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Any problem you have along these lines, not that I've ever seen anyone have these problems, could be easily fixed by increasing the total durability of items. If it took 100 deaths and a week of straight grinding to reduce an item to 0 durability, could you still make your complaints?


Then why even put it in the game, if you don't want to make it a factor. Its not a feature that is even true to the FF name (since it has never been in one), so its not like we have to have this feature but lets water it down so it doesn't effect anyone.
#25 Jul 23 2009 at 6:52 AM Rating: Good
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HocusP wrote:
Two very different things, a pickaxe has to break or you could just mine forever on one pickaxe. You don't make money on the gear you wear, but you do make money mining. Anything that broke, was usually items you used to make money like pickaxes. Even then pickaxes didn't lose durability, they just had a random chance of breaking. Once again you make money off mining, and it would be really easy if you could use 1 pickaxe forever. Gear is a whole different thing and is not used to directly make money.


lol, I wasn't making an argument for why one thing could break, and another wouldn't break, I was making the argument for realizim could be still within the FF universe. By the logic used in your statement, it could very easily be said, a pickaxe doesn't make you money, the items you get with it's use does, in the same sense that a weapon does not make you money, the items you get for killing something does.

Or in another way, if one item can break (wear down slowly, or just breaks from usable to non usable) from use for any reason, then any item should be able to be broken. How those items are used, or why they are used, do not change the physics involved.

Once again, I am not wanting to have equipment decay in FFXIV, I loved not having it in FFXI, I am also not overly concerned about realizim in my games. I am just aware that realizim (or I guess really the word I should be using here, as it may convey a greater degree of accuracy, would be consistency) is important to many gamers.
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#26 Jul 23 2009 at 7:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

Or in another way, if one item can break (wear down slowly, or just breaks from usable to non usable) from use for any reason, then any item should be able to be broken. How those items are used, or why they are used, do not change the physics involved.

Once again, I am not wanting to have equipment decay in FFXIV, I loved not having it in FFXI, I am also not overly concerned about realizim in my games. I am just aware that realizim (or I guess really the word I should be using here, as it may convey a greater degree of accuracy, would be consistency) is important to many gamers.


The reason behind why something breaks is what is the difference here. In real life the reason why a pickaxe breaks is very different then the reason why a pickaxe breaks in FF. The reason stuff breaks in real life is because they wear down with time and use. The reason why pickaxe breaks in FF is because it takes money out the game then using one pickaxe forever. They do not even wear down in the FF world, its either hit or miss and its random. You will get something, or not get anything, or get something and it breaks, or not get anything and it breaks. All of those options are based on randoms and not anything that real life is based on like wear and tear. If as you used a pickaxe it lost durability then maybe I could see an small comparison, but not with something that is hit or miss.

Pickaxes and things like this do not have stats and are not worn. They also do not have wear and tear they just break based on random numbers. A synthesis also breaks on random numbers, so there go your comparison right there. Its a better comparsion to synthesis then to wear and tear and real life. Gear can break, but only during synthesis, and you can lose the ingredients. Wear and tear realism, has never been in an FF game, because breaking and wear and tear is two different things.
#27 Jul 23 2009 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
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Karelyn wrote:
WAR did it first. WoW borrowed the idea from WAR.

Lotro did it before WAR, and I'm sure there were other MMORPGs.

I'd say all MMORPGs came from the console systems, primarily with the rise in popularity of the 360's achievements.
HocusP wrote:
Then why even put it in the game, if you don't want to make it a factor.

It is still very much a factor. Basically all I'm saying that if you think the gas tank is too small, then we can give it a bigger gas tank, but you're still going to need to buy the same amount of gas.

If one game has a durability limit of 100, and the player loses about 10 durability every hour, then he'll need to refill it at least every 10 hours. If a game has a durability limit of 1000, and the player loses the same 10 durability every hour, then he can go longer in between repairs, but he is still spending the same amount of money for those repairs.

The point of durability is not to realistically threaten the player with armor breaks, but to create a a regular money sink for the system to fight inflation and to have a practically failure penalty. I can't think of any MMORPG that has come up with a better death penalty than durability loss.
#28 Jul 23 2009 at 7:40 AM Rating: Good
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I could maybe see them having durability on weapons... but make it to where you can carry around a (taking this from Monster Hunter) whetstone or something of the like to where you can sharpen it on the field. It would be realistic and everything. I just don't want armor to have to wear down. Especially if we have 16 slots again and with gear-swapping.

They said that leveling will be based on weapons, so I could see weapon decay.
#29 Jul 23 2009 at 7:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It is still very much a factor. Basically all I'm saying that if you think the gas tank is too small, then we can give it a bigger gas tank, but you're still going to need to buy the same amount of gas.


Yeah I understand, I was commenting on more about the 100 deaths then anything else. I know people that went 1-75 and didn't die anywhere near 100 times. Then you add on all the gear changes as you level, and you might never die 100 times with the same armor on or in your inventory. The biggest problem with this is, it is always unfair to a group of people. Like dieing, usually the tanks die more and the healers die less. Same as if its for weapons, the melee would spend more when the mages wouldn't spend much at all. I'm all for gil sinks but fair gil sinks like limbus and dynamis costing the same for everyone.

Then wear and tear has really never been implemented in a FF game. Outright breaking and wear and tear is two very different things. I think the game will stay true to the FF name, and add new and different content. Not add a feature that is hit or miss and is not worth the risk, when the game will do perfectly fine without it.
#30 Jul 23 2009 at 9:13 AM Rating: Default
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Could someone please justify this need for armor/weapon durability? The more I read what people say the more suspicious I am of their intent. Why do some people want to push so hard for it? What is it they are tying to gain? Is it really about a death penalty? I am just fine with xp loss and weakness. The answer that instantly pops into my head is greedy crafters. Sounds like an excuse so that crafters can make even more gil. So someone please justify durability, as a death penalty, in a way that doesn't sound like there is a hidden conspiracy by the Vana'diel Crafters Union Local 151.

*7 year member of Vana'diel Notorious Monster Hunters Union Local 282.
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#31 Jul 23 2009 at 10:33 AM Rating: Decent
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AmsaimSutavarg wrote:
Could someone please justify this need for armor/weapon durability? The more I read what people say the more suspicious I am of their intent. Why do some people want to push so hard for it? What is it they are tying to gain?

A money sink to curb inflation.

Because as bad as durability is, out of control inflation is worse. And a lot of the other options to curb inflation are worse.

Armor durability is probably the least odoriferous taxation option.

AmsaimSutavarg wrote:
The answer that instantly pops into my head is greedy crafters. Sounds like an excuse so that crafters can make even more gil. So someone please justify durability, as a death penalty, in a way that doesn't sound like there is a hidden conspiracy by the Vana'diel Crafters Union Local 151.

There is absolutely zero connection between crafting and armor durability. They have nothing to do with each other.

Edited, Jul 23rd 2009 2:36pm by Karelyn
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#32 Jul 23 2009 at 10:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Karelyn wrote:
Sahaya wrote:
No to silly achievements, In WoW you literally get one for jumping off a cliff.

... There are games in the world besides FFXI and WoW you know.

WAR did it first. WoW borrowed the idea from WAR.

In WAR, there is an achievement for killing a player while you are transformed into a chicken <.<


WAR didn't do it first. Lord of the Rings did it before WAR. Xbox live did it before LoTR. City of Heroes did it before Xbox live. Nintendo Power did it before City of Heroes.

The idea of tracking achievements is not a new idea, it's just evolved from one product to the next.

And personally, I don't give a crap if people want to track achievements on their own, but I don't want to see it integrated into the game the way it is in WoW or WAR. It's just my opinion. There are many people who love the achievements system(s). There are many people who like Miley Cyrus, too.

Edit: Beaten by Allegory. Curses! <twirls mustache>

Edited, Jul 23rd 2009 2:39pm by KarlHungis
#33 Jul 23 2009 at 11:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ok I'll take a stab at this since I don't have any strong opinion about whether they include gear repair or not. I'm not arguing for or against here - just hopefully helping people understand where the other people are coming from. Full disclosure - I played FFXI, WoW, and LOTRO, and am currently not playing any MMO. (Looks like Karelyn beat me to some of this, but I'll leave my wall of text intact in case it does some good.)

(/ma Barfire <me>)

Quote:
Could someone please justify this need for armor/weapon durability?


There are at least two arguments for it, one of which is basically what you're afraid of. Gear decay can be used to make crafting more a part of the game economy, by making decay permanent or only allowing crafters to repair. I only tried out SWG for a couple of days, but as I understand it, that's how gear decay worked there. Crafted items decay and eventually break, so crafters always have a market. Not as popular with some players, but it does guarantee that crafting can be a money source without falling into the trap of a system where crafters can only make money on crafting a few consumable items.

The other argument, the one you'll run into more often in an MMO, is that from a game design point of view, you have to have enough money sinks to balance your money sources. If money creation (money drops, gear drops, quest rewards, etc.) outpace money sinks, you get inflation. Works that way in any economy, real or video game. Gear repair is a money sink that directly increases the amount of money being taken out of the economy based on how much you play - the more you fight, the more your gear decays, the more you have to repair it, the more money goes out of the economy.

In WoW at least, gear repair is also a small penalty for death - your equipped gear loses 10% of its total durability every time you die, so just mindlessly retrying the same fight over and over and dying repeatedly can get expensive. Typically an endgame WoW player doesn't have to repair because of battle damage (unless they're the main tank) - they have to repair because they died too many times. Players can also repair if someone with engineering skill drops a repair bot, which again takes money out of the economy since the bot is consumable and the repair fees paid to it disappear from the game.

Every MMO has money sinks, or the economy will go nuts and inflate indefinitely; some games just put their money sinks in different places. FFXI doesn't have gear repair, but you have to pay when you want to take a chocobo, boat, or airship somewhere. WoW charges for flight points, but you pay a one-time charge for a mount, and zeppelin/boat rides are free. WoW has gear repair, but nobody is dependent on craftable consumables to do their job, like FFXI ninjas and rangers are. LOTRO players pay rent on their player housing, while FFXI mog houses are free (and WoW still has no player housing, boooo). I think pretty much all MMOs now charge fees on player-to-player sales (auction house, FFXI bazaars, etc.) and on the mail system.


As for the realism debates, the problem there is something that people who write fantasy or sci fi games and stories have to work out all the time - even if you have parts of your world that are different from the real world, it has to make sense internally. Every time you deviate from that, it takes some believability out of the world. Some of that is necessary, because a totally believable world could make for a really terrible game.

For example, NPCs can die permanently, but mobs magically repop all the time, and players can always be revived, because an MMO with real player death will have a very small group of (*********) players willing to put any time into it. ;) When people say it wouldn't be realistic, they usually don't mean as compared to our world, but rather that it's one more way the game world doesn't feel like a real world because real-life concerns are ignored.

Logically it doesn't make sense for gear not to decay, because gear has to be forged somehow, so it's not invulnerable or anything, and it's presented as being made of metal, leather, and cloth, all of which decay naturally over time and definitely deteriorate when used in combat. If gear doesn't decay in the game, that's fine, because some of the realism of gear is already being overlooked, like the fact that you can wear your gear right off the bat without taking it to an armorer to be fitted to your body, and you never oil it or clean it. If they decide to put gear decay in, that's fine too, because it's more realistic to acknowledge wear and tear on gear.

Either your money will go into gear repair, or it'll go somewhere else. In any case, one way or another, there will be small amounts of money you'll be paying into the game as you play which take money out of the economy.

And just to reiterate, I don't really care that much whether gear repair is one of the money sinks in FFXIV, but I can see where both sides are coming from on it.
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#34 Jul 23 2009 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
TaylorFatalis wrote:
I don't think you're getting the point, though. H.E.L.M. is different from what you wear. I understand a sickle or pickaxe breaking. That's not something you keep on you at all times. It doesn't have stats that are important.

Times when I'm xping in a far-away-from-town area for hours on end, I don't want to have to stop because my best piece of armor is almost broken.


Your bags will likely fill up long before your armor breaks. When you return to town to unload and make space for more goodies, you repair. General speaking, the trash you sell out of your bags will more than cover the cost of your repairs.
#35 Jul 23 2009 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
HocusP wrote:
Quote:
You make money on the gear you make though. That is not entirely different at all.

Artisans would never have to worry about running out of recipes to profit on. If you make different sets of armor situational for many different fights, you will keep crafters constantly busy gearing up people for the numerous occasions.


Mining is directly making money and is an activity, wearing gear is just wearing gear.


If you only think in terms of FFXI, sure. The MMOs I've played where gear durability was a factor, you'd actually earn currency while leveling (I know...what a concept!). Durability erodes while fighting. Killing things nets loot. Loot is sold. Ergo, doing things that cause durability loss also earn currency to pay for said durability loss.
#36 Jul 23 2009 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
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If they provide me with a surprisingly clever repair-monkey who loyally follows me from location to location, patiently waiting for me to hand him my armor for a quick repair in exhange for a vendor-purchased banana, then ok, I'm in. Otherwise, I think there are probably money sinks that are less annoying and potentially dangerous for players.
#37 Jul 23 2009 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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Callipho wrote:
Otherwise, I think there are probably money sinks that are less annoying and potentially dangerous for players.

Like what? High travel fees? Auction/Bazaar taxes?

I cannot think of a money sink introduced in an MMO that is less annoying and less invasive than armor durability.
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#38 Jul 23 2009 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
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I would consider all of those less annoying than armor durability...

those can't hit you hard when you're in the middle of leveling/questing/enjoying yourself and keep you from continuing whatever it is you're doing
#39 Jul 23 2009 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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Callipho wrote:
I would consider all of those less annoying than armor durability...

those can't hit you hard when you're in the middle of leveling/questing/enjoying yourself and keep you from continuing whatever it is you're doing

Going to a repair vender at least once a week (when you aren't raiding) is more disruptive than taxes making the profit margin on many items too small to sell to other players? Or large travel fees which may make you have to hoof it to meet you party because you didn't have enough money?
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#40 Jul 23 2009 at 12:57 PM Rating: Excellent
Callipho wrote:
I would consider all of those less annoying than armor durability...

those can't hit you hard when you're in the middle of leveling/questing/enjoying yourself and keep you from continuing whatever it is you're doing


I've leveled 3 toons to the current cap in WoW (80). I've got another at 78, one at 70, and one at 68. I've never had to stop what I was doing to go repair because my gear broke in the middle of nowhere. I've been held up in groups while people who were shall we say...less attentive...had to go repair 5 mins in because they weren't in the habit of keeping on top of things. If you spend 20 minutes traveling out to the middle of nowhere and 10 mins in you start getting warnings that your gear is on the verge of breaking, that's your hint to not be so silly and attend to the important details on a regular basis. If you make a point of hitting a repair NPC every time you go to clear your bags, you're set. It's just an added convenience that NPCs who will repair your gear will also buy vendor trash, so it's a win-win all the way around.

Really, people arguing that they don't want to have to stop what they're doing to go repair need to read what has been written in response to that concern, because it's not a concern in games I've played where durability was a factor.
#41 Jul 23 2009 at 4:14 PM Rating: Good
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So a Spike flail would completely destroy your armor then?
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#42 Jul 23 2009 at 7:47 PM Rating: Good
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Myakyu wrote:
Quote:
There can also be an argument for fans of realizim, in that it is a bit unrealistic to have armour that does not wear out with use.


Isn't it also unrealistic to be a cat-person though? Or a Taru? Or a Galka? o.O


I'm sure there's a cat-person out there playing a game as a human right now and saying, "this is so unrealistic, playing a game as a monkey-person."
#43 Jul 23 2009 at 9:58 PM Rating: Decent
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169 posts
AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:
Really, people arguing that they don't want to have to stop what they're doing to go repair need to read what has been written in response to that concern, because it's not a concern in games I've played where durability was a factor.


I can't say anything for other games (WoW, for instance), but LotRO's item wear system was certainly intrusive and disruptive. A full run through just about any instance would pretty much require at least the tank to head back to town, repair his gear, and be resummoned to the instance. God forbid you wiped, then everyone would have to take turns going back to repair (needed someone else to stay and summon, after all). It was a huge pain in the ***, and added absolutely nothing to the game but a pointless time waster.

If item wear were implemented well in FFXIV, I wouldn't mind it (and could even see liking it, if it was really well integrated into the game). If it's done as poorly as in LotRO, I'll pass.
#44 Jul 24 2009 at 3:05 AM Rating: Good
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95 posts
I'm in for pure superficial armor appearances ( based on a hidden variable of durability ), which would not affect any functional / performance stats, it's purely for looks.

Armor will wear and gives a rugged and embattled look. Some people would prefer looking that way, shows a level of 'battle experience'.

Pay a price and get that 'showroom shine' back in!

Might involve an excessive number of textures and models in the game though, but then it's SE to worry about it ^^
#45 Aug 02 2009 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
13 posts
There are times in ffxi I was in a party for just about 12 hrs. Personally I would hate to see that my armor is almost broken and I would have to go and get it fixed wasting time money and probably losing my spot in that exp party. Some may say that it is fair because one doesn't deserve to have a spot in an exp party for that long but I think if you have the will to stay you shouldn't be made to leave a spot b/c of armor breaking.

I can see if it was you needed some sort of tools (each doing a certain percentage recovered) to fix the armor that everyone can use (regardless of skill, tho skill possibly making armor repaired using less tools by having the skill make it you can get more % recovered per tool) and carry many of on them that would seem fair but there would be the crafters saying we don't get more money if it happens that way.
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#46 Aug 02 2009 at 6:23 PM Rating: Decent
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KarlHungis wrote:
They also better not include silly achievements.


If you mean achievements in general, then unluckily for you, they will be.

PS3 has an achievement like system called Trophies, that are mandatory in every game released after Jan 09. So they will almost certainly be there.

However, if you mean silly achievements like... Jump 5 times on the spot, well, PS3 exclusives tend to avoid ones like that.

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#47 Aug 02 2009 at 8:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I loved in FFXI how armor would not be worn down. That part of WoW got me to quit quite quickly.


you quit a game because you had to repair armor. . . . alrighty
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#48 Aug 02 2009 at 8:49 PM Rating: Good
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495 posts
I don't care for armor durability myself, but if putting it in makes it so I don't have to PAY to do an event like Dynamis, higher Bazaar/AH taxes which make it impratical to even sell something, or high travel fees which disrupt actual play far more than armor repair could ever do if you are trying to party in some remote location, than I am all for it. Make the loot/durability system similar to WoW and it will be far from intrusive.

Secondly we still don't have a clue how progression in this game works, so the tired "Grind" of parties may not even be pratical and 2-6 hour stints leveling may not even exist so the comment of worrying about repairing it in the middle of partying may not be neccesary. We also have no idea what the stat system in this game will be like, nor just how important gear in this game will be. I think a generous medium between WoW and FFXI enchant system imo would be perfect. Make bonus stats halved if the armor is in need of repair, but it will never be so low that its like you are naked. Thus people can still farm in the gear, but it will need to be repaired to do party work. The fact of the matter is, armor durability is not a bad thing, its all a matter of how its implemented into the system and whether it would help the game more than it detracts.


Edited, Aug 3rd 2009 12:50am by croythegreat
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