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#1 Jul 30 2009 at 5:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Hey all,

So what does everyone want as a macro system? IMO, I love the FFXI macro system, it was perfect for me, sure an extra fews lines would have been nice for each macro, but that's not a biggie, it was great and out of all the MMO's I have played I think it was done better than all.

Now I know people like the type of macro systems where EVERYTHING is on the screen, and you can set it to hot keys, or click with your mouse, I can't stand that, but Im aware others do...

So what are everyone's thoughts about having more then one choice for a macro/hotkey set up?

-FFXI style. (maybee some minor tweeks)
-Pallet style, (sorta like FFXI, but it is always on the screen)
-Free roam style, (all macros are just everywhere, you can move them around and place them where ever you want)


Those are 3 simple types I guess... never really played anything that wasn't along those lines. So would this be a wise choice? does anyone have anything to add?
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#2 Jul 30 2009 at 6:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
-FFXI style. (maybee some minor tweeks)


This with some improvements to the system. I don't like a game with a clustered screen, it just bothers me for some reason. I thinks that why I liked how FFXI didn't have tons of abilities and did not have a clustered screen. The game is being made to be console friendly, so a clustered screen that you click on things is kind of out of the question anyway.
#3 Jul 30 2009 at 7:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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I also vote for FFXI style, but if "/wait xx" will be necessary again SE had better give us more than six lines...
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#4 Jul 30 2009 at 8:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree with HocusP. Cluttered screen is a bad thing.

FFXI style with more lines.

And here's hoping to no need for gear swapping. Maybe our bonus stats can come from different crystals or something that we equip like materia... armor just affects defensive traits and agility-related things. Then again, we'd still need to macro in materia swaps with such a system.

Bottom line: more lines.
#5 Jul 30 2009 at 9:38 PM Rating: Decent
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The macro system is part of the UI which I think should be totally customizable so that everyone can have exactly what they want. If you're a minimalist and want your screen to be empty, go for it. If you go crazy with your mouse and want your screen loaded with buttons, by all means. If you want your screen full of clickable pink bunnies...well you have issues...but you should be allowed to do so.
#6 Jul 30 2009 at 10:44 PM Rating: Good
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HocusP wrote:
Quote:
-FFXI style. (maybee some minor tweeks)


This with some improvements to the system. I don't like a game with a clustered screen, it just bothers me for some reason. I thinks that why I liked how FFXI didn't have tons of abilities and did not have a clustered screen. The game is being made to be console friendly, so a clustered screen that you click on things is kind of out of the question anyway.


As far as screen clutter, SE needs to realize that an uncustomizable, one-size-fits-all UI (like FFXI's) will not cut it.

Looking at FFXI, on PS2 their UI works fine, and it works on a PC at 640x480 (which is fairly close to the 512x480 that the PS2 version uses), but at high resolutions it becomes far less effective.

At 1280x960 for example (the resolution I play games at), the chat log is way too wide, and the party member bars, text font, and various other windows are way too small, so that the UI is taking up more space than it needs too and providing less information than it could. For example, at that resolution, I could spare the screen space to show the macro palette at all times, but there was no way to do that.

In fact, as a PC player I would love to have a WoW-style action bar (or at least the option to have one), because it would make it easier to track which abilities are available and which are on cooldown, and to see which abilities or macros are bound to which keys whenever I want. Maybe provide an option to auto-hide the action bar/macro palette for console players and others who want to reduce screen clutter, while still allowing it to always be visible for those players who prefer that.

On a similar note, FFXVI needs to have mouse control that is more than an afterthought. To take the example of FFXI again, the alliance interface makes it fairly easy to select alliance members with a controller, but if you have a mouse instead of a controller, it is useless for targetting because you can't click on an alliance member's HP/MP bars to target them.



I realize this is a bit of a tangent, but what they should do for FFXVI is have a customizable interface that is implemented in a scripting language (like WoW's is), which will allow users to further modify the UI, within certain limits; and storing add-ons on a centralized server, allowing them to be used by any player regardless of platform.

That way, people who want, say, FFXI-style macro palettes can have them, those who want WoW-style action bars can have them, and those who want something even more bizzare, like an SoM-style ring menu or a Sims-style pie menu can have that instead, and everyone is more-or-less happy.
#7 Jul 30 2009 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

In fact, as a PC player I would love to have a WoW-style action bar (or at least the option to have one), because it would make it easier to track which abilities are available and which are on cooldown, and to see which abilities or macros are bound to which keys whenever I want. Maybe provide an option to auto-hide the action bar/macro palette for console players and others who want to reduce screen clutter, while still allowing it to always be visible for those players who prefer that.


I hate the idea of an 'Action bar'. It just sucks all the 'J-RPG' out of the game.

But I have no opposition to letting the Macro Bar appear at the bottom of the screen for those who want to point and click. (but you will end up using the keyboard anyway if you are on PC) (and end up using the shoulder buttons if you are on a console... I still think that playing FFXI with a controller was the BEST MMO interface I ever experienced).
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#8 Jul 31 2009 at 5:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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BastokFL wrote:
Looking at FFXI, on PS2 their UI works fine, and it works on a PC at 640x480 (which is fairly close to the 512x480 that the PS2 version uses), but at high resolutions it becomes far less effective.
I wonder if that has anything to do with the game being designed for the Playstation 2, and the computer version is nothing but an over glorified port? On that note, my bet is XIV is going to be pretty similar to this.



Personally, I hope we won't need unlimited lines for macros because we won't have a stupid amount of situational gear to deal with. It was simple to set up and run with. Its going to be on the Playstation 3, so the chances of a customizable UI seem pretty low, so I'm hoping for a return to the simple menu system that was in XI. WoW's action bar was nice and all, but the whole menu thing is sort of a Final Fantasy tradition, so if for any reason, I'd like its return based on that.
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#9 Jul 31 2009 at 7:31 AM Rating: Good
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I absolutely loved the FFXI macro system; it was one of my favorite things about the game.

I quit a while ago, but from what I can recall I never really needed more lines than what was provided.

When I was still playing the game, it was on an old CRT monitor. I don't even remember the resolution.

Now I play games at 1920 x 1200, and the size of the UI in games is never a problem.

However, I would really like to see a moveable and customizable interface (transparency and colors of windows).

But I would not want my macros display all over the screen.
When I am playing the game I want to take in as much of the scenery as possible.
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#10 Jul 31 2009 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree with not having macros cluttering up the screen. I think that FFXIV just needs to basically do all the improvements that the windower allowed you to do with macros. I found this old guide on the web that describes all the reasons why windower macros are better than FFXI macros: http://www.staronion.com/maiev/nfblog/?page_id=204

It says:

Quote:
So what is the advantage of Windower Macro system?

* No more 6 line of macro restriction
* the speed that it execute the macro owns FFXI macro system (video below)
* your macro key is not limited to Alt 1-10 or Ctrl 1-10 (My silence macro is Alt+S)
* You donâ??t accidentally jump to other macro palette (unlike the FFXI one)!
* When you get a new piece of equipment, all you need to do is update the alias, and not go through all palette to update em (explained later)
* Unlimited macro palette (FFXI is limited to 1-10)
* You can now bind Alt+H (to heal) with all other macro such as wear errant body, hierarch belt, dark staff! (One key, but does more!)


Hopefully massive equipment swaps wont be necessary in FFXI, but if they still are, they need to have all the stuff listed above that the windower system has.
#11 Jul 31 2009 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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I guess I'm alone in this, but I kind of feel like macros shouldn't be necessary, Optional, sure, but not necessary. The interface should be clean and functional enough that we should never need macros to play the game.

I realize that this thread isn't about whether or not macros should be necessary in the game, and instead about how a macro system should be implemented, but has any of you really considered this?
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#12 Jul 31 2009 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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HocusP wrote:
I don't like a game with a clustered screen, it just bothers me for some reason.

The games that I believe you might be referring to let you turn off the visibility.

The basic concept for the WoW UI seems to be the most optimal for any MMORPG so far. I've yet to see a better system. They give the player a great amount of default freedom without making the system overly complicated, and the potential for the player to have near limitless freedom if they do wish to complicate their experience.
#13 Jul 31 2009 at 11:02 AM Rating: Decent
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I guess I'm alone in this, but I kind of feel like macros shouldn't be necessary, Optional, sure, but not necessary. The interface should be clean and functional enough that we should never need macros to play the game.

I realize that this thread isn't about whether or not macros should be necessary in the game, and instead about how a macro system should be implemented, but has any of you really considered this?



Sure, that would be nice..but it will never happen. Alot of time would be wasted for mages if they had to scroll for spells. and combo's with JA+WS would be hard i.e Sneak Attack + Trick Attack + Dancing Edge. if you had to scroll about to set that up well... ****. Your whm's would always be crying, everyone would always die, and yell at the whm... sry i had to scroll for haste, poisona, cure, haste again, back to cure, lol...

but if it was possible to come out with a way to play with out macros as necessary that would be great.
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#14 Jul 31 2009 at 11:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sure, that would be nice..but it will never happen. Alot of time would be wasted for mages if they had to scroll for spells. and combo's with JA+WS would be hard i.e Sneak Attack + Trick Attack + Dancing Edge. if you had to scroll about to set that up well... ****. Your whm's would always be crying, everyone would always die, and yell at the whm... sry i had to scroll for haste, poisona, cure, haste again, back to cure, lol...

but if it was possible to come out with a way to play with out macros as necessary that would be great.


Well, that's what I mean. FFXI was designed in a way that macros became a play necessity. We needed macros to avoid scrolling for spells. For combos. Wouldn't it be nice if we didn't? Wouldn't it be nice if SE left behind the flaws, mistakes and trappings of the last generation and presented us with a combat system that was fluid and intuitive and didn't require either surfing through huge menus OR creating lists of macros?

Saying it won't happen because a lot of time would be wasted IF the game plays like FFXI is... well, it ignores the (perhaps naive) possibility that SE has learned anything over the last several years and is willing to try something new and different. I mean, you may be completely right. But I hope not.
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#15 Jul 31 2009 at 11:49 AM Rating: Default
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Well, that's what I mean. FFXI was designed in a way that macros became a play necessity. We needed macros to avoid scrolling for spells. For combos. Wouldn't it be nice if we didn't? Wouldn't it be nice if SE left behind the flaws, mistakes and trappings of the last generation and presented us with a combat system that was fluid and intuitive and didn't require either surfing through huge menus OR creating lists of macros?


How? Have one spell per mage? White mages that can only cure?
#16 Jul 31 2009 at 12:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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How? Have one spell per mage? White mages that can only cure?


No, that's not what I'm suggesting. look, hundreds of other games handle multiple powers, spells, actions, player-to-player interactions and all kinds of other stuff without resorting to player made macros. We were only stuck with them for FFXI because SE decided to try to use the classic FF interface. there are better ways to do this.

Edited, Jul 31st 2009 4:23pm by keelut
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#17 Jul 31 2009 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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I see what Keelut is saying.

Lets say you are a mage and you have 100 spells. But in a battle/leveling situation you only use 10 of them 99% of the time. You could hit a button for "Cast Spell" and the first thing that could come up is a list of your 10 most used spells. Also there could be a list of "pertinent" spells. Like if someone in your party is poisoned then "Poisona" would be at the top of the list of pertinent spells. But when no one is poisoned there is no need to have quick access to Poisona.

If you take out the need to do gear swaps, and you make some slicker interfaces for accessing the most used spells or job abilities quickly, then it does reduce the need for macros. Of course, as ToorimaHades pointed out, for things that require multiple things to happen at the right time, like for Skill Chains, then macros would still be necessary.

#18 Jul 31 2009 at 2:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Keelut, I'm not understanding what you dislike about player made macros. I just can't imagine a scenario where any complaint you could make is not easily customized away.

Edited, Jul 31st 2009 5:36pm by Allegory
#19 Jul 31 2009 at 2:53 PM Rating: Decent
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As far as the UI in ffxi, it was pretty **** good imo.
The menus all had the feel of a classic FF game.
The UI in games like WoW and others that mimic it, work pretty well and are straight to the point and perform their function; but the uniqueness of ffxi's is one of the things i enjoy about playing it.

The macros just need a few more lines and I think it would be pretty good. Though, it would be nice if they added a way to see cooldowns ect. Basically what some others said in this thread, if they just make it an updated new version of ffxi's i think it'll work pretty well.
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#20 Jul 31 2009 at 2:54 PM Rating: Decent
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keelut wrote:

Well, that's what I mean. FFXI was designed in a way that macros became a play necessity. We needed macros to avoid scrolling for spells. For combos. Wouldn't it be nice if we didn't? Wouldn't it be nice if SE left behind the flaws, mistakes and trappings of the last generation and presented us with a combat system that was fluid and intuitive and didn't require either surfing through huge menus OR creating lists of macros?

Wouldn't it be nice if I could fly to Europe for free? I'm not talking airfare, I mean really fly, like a bird, of my own volition and propulsion.

The point: it's not going to happen. Either you are going to sacrifice content or you are going to "sacrifice" the macroless system.
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#21 Jul 31 2009 at 6:04 PM Rating: Good
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I'm also not a huge fan of the macro interface. I don't mind writing macros-- I just don't care much for a gameplay interface that centers around macros. I would like to see something slightly more original and inventive. At the very least, I'd like there to be more involved in executing commands and attacks than simply selecting a macro.

Now, I understand that macros are about as simple as it can get, and that complexity will eventually breed scripts that do all the hard stuff for the people that cheat while leaving the people who do things the right way at a disadvantage (people even do that with macros in FFXI, and it would probably be even worse with a more complicated system). At least that's the likelihood. But personally I'd rather play a fun, challenging game and not worry about the people who'd just as soon take shortcuts.

Anyway, a simple example is a command search feature, not unlike your autofill features on standard browsers (or even the auto-translate feature in FFXI). You type, let's say, the symbol for a command is /, and when you type /C all of your commands that start with C will appear, /CH narrows it down further still until you get the one you want. I'm not saying this is the pinnacle of macroless UI, but a simple feature that I wouldn't mind having. What I'm talking about is more along the lines of mouse gestures or even button combos. Anything they add beyond the standard macro UI is ok with me (add, not necessarily replace entirely)
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#22 Jul 31 2009 at 7:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Either you are going to sacrifice content or you are going to "sacrifice" the macroless system.


Really? Why? Plenty of games have both. In fact, most games do.

Quote:
Keelut, I'm not understanding what you dislike about player made macros. I just can't imagine a scenario where any complaint you could make is not easily customized away.


Maybe it's just a matter of preference, but it seems like bad design to create a game where the basic controls do not cover the full range of desired actions. Or really even close to the full range of desired actions.

I honestly don't want to have to use macros. I want the game to do what it's supposed to do without requiring my customization to create functionality. I feel like if your players have to resort to relying on macros then your interface is too complex. There's really no excuse for this any more.

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#23 Jul 31 2009 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
I just don't care much for a gameplay interface that centers around macros...I'd like there to be more involved in executing commands and attacks than simply selecting a macro.


Macros will always have a place, especially for activating job abilities, weaponskills, or spells in rapid succession.

Kachi wrote:
a simple example is a command search feature, not unlike your autofill features on standard browsers (or even the auto-translate feature in FFXI). You type, let's say, the symbol for a command is /, and when you type /C all of your commands that start with C will appear, /CH narrows it down further still until you get the one you want.


Imagine a Thief firing off Sneak Attack + Trick Attack + Shark Bite. At most, you are looking at three macros using the FFXI system, though this combo can be initiated with a single macro.

Now imagine typing "/Sn" enter "/Tr" enter "/Sha" enter for that same combo. Assuming there are no typos, you're still looking at significantly more input than is necessary.

Kachi wrote:
What I'm talking about is more along the lines of mouse gestures or even button combos.


Mouse gestures are unlikely as this would be difficult to port from the PS3. And once again you are more likely to make an error at a critical moment in the battle (like during the middle of a skillchain) trying to execute a specific mouse move than simply pressing ALT+1. Button combos might also be difficult to port to a keyboard from a controller, and aren't FFXI macros simplified button combos anyway?

In the critical moments of intense battles, nothing beats a simple single-key or double-key macro.

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#24 Jul 31 2009 at 7:56 PM Rating: Good
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Macros will always have a place, especially for activating job abilities, weaponskills, or spells in rapid succession.


Unless these things don't exist in the new games.

Quote:
Mouse gestures are unlikely as this would be difficult to port from the PS3.


It might be doable using the 6-axis. That could be interesting.

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#25 Jul 31 2009 at 7:57 PM Rating: Good
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keelut wrote:
Maybe it's just a matter of preference, but it seems like bad design to create a game where the basic controls do not cover the full range of desired actions. Or really even close to the full range of desired actions.

In my perspective, macros are basic controls. In a game with 100 actions, you are going to need 100 different inputs. The only way I see around that are context specific actions (which don't seem to be very popular in MMORPGs) o toning down game play to be so slow that people can navigate menus. I don't believe either of those are better solutions.
keelut wrote:
I honestly don't want to have to use macros. I want the game to do what it's supposed to do without requiring my customization to create functionality. I feel like if your players have to resort to relying on macros then your interface is too complex.

For most games I would agree with you. Action, adventure, platforming, and fighting are all genres where I believe simple controls are key to creating a good game. Flight simulators, RTS, and MMORPGs are genres where I feel macros are justified and largely required.
#26 Jul 31 2009 at 7:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Macros are just performing multiple actions in a single button press, so wouldn't it's viability be dependent on how many actions the combat system allows?

A Hackn'Slash (Kingdom Hearts), Real-Time Battle system (FFXI) or Active Dimension Battle system (FFXII) is pretty macro friendly because your free to perform as many actions as your resources allow. While a Turn-Based Combat system (FFI), Active Time Battle system (FFIV), or Conditional Turn-Based system (FFX) would be macro unfriendly because your only allowed one action during your turn.

Most MMORPGs use RTB and by extension use macros heavily.
So many so, it's hard to imagine an MMORPG using anything else. But after reading the interviews surrounding the combat system, maybe it couldn't hurt to keep an open mind. Completely different from XI (which was RTB)? More real-time, but don't call it "action"? Faster paced, but with more strategy? The whole thing makes me go cross-eyed just thinking about it. I have no idea what we're in for, but it's an odd little duck. Who knows how macros will end up?


Edited, Aug 1st 2009 12:08am by Zemzelette
#27 Jul 31 2009 at 9:03 PM Rating: Good
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ToorimaHades wrote:

So what does everyone want as a macro system?


Spellcast XML style would be perfect.
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#28 Jul 31 2009 at 10:42 PM Rating: Excellent
I think it would help to distinguish between UI functions and macros. The macro is the script...it's the set of instructions that performs certain actions. How those appear on your screen is a function of the UI, so when people say, "I like <insert game here>'s macro system...it doesn't clutter the screen", I reckon they've missed the point.

The FFXI macro system was limited. It was basically binding multiple actions to one keypress. Wee. I like macros with conditional modifiers. I like macros that do different things based on the conditions when you activate the macro. If FFXIV is designed around such a base and simplistic combat system that people can automate multiple sets of abilities and/or gear swaps blah blah rah rah I'll be disappointed. Ideally part of playing the game would be actually doing those things on the fly.

As far as the UI goes, I prefer persistent on-screen indicators of the cooldowns on my abilities. It beats spamming a...macro...to flood my chat log with a list or pulling up a menu to check the cooldowns that way. It's possible to have persistent on-screen information without creating clutter. FFXI's UI worked for FFXI. It wouldn't work for a faster paced game.
#29 Jul 31 2009 at 10:53 PM Rating: Decent
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If you guys are talking about custom UIs, let's just add one more important thing.

SE, for the love of all that is holy, give us a Japanese IME or let us use one of our own without penalty.

People shouldn't have to install a JP version of PO or use the windower just to type in Japanese. It should also be available to console versions.

Please and thank you.
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#30 Aug 01 2009 at 8:11 AM Rating: Default
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The easiest way to simplify the UI is to prevent the player from being able to carry around a ton of crap in the first place. This way you won't need to do any gear swaps at all, you gear for the situation your going for and thats it. The concept of carrying gear around for 5 different situations is retarded and only promotes the hording of gear rather than enjoying the experience. I want my enjoyment of the game to come more from the journey at hand, and less from the gear I horde.

The UI should be no more complex than a game like.. Kingdom hearts where you had your attack button, your item menus, magic menus, and event button(which could be replaced to utilized job abilities or whatever) and you'd have all the basic functions covered if the game is more action-oriented.

If ffxiv has ffxi's battle system then It'd be even simpler.

*hold JA button, scroll down to desired JA, use*
*hold Item button, scroll down to item, use*
*hold Magic Button, scroll down to spell, use*

Edited, Aug 1st 2009 12:42pm by baltz
#31 Aug 01 2009 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
baltz wrote:

If ffxiv has ffxi's battle system then It'd be even simpler.

*hold JA button, scroll down to desired JA, use*
*hold Item button, scroll down to item, use*
*hold Magic Button, scroll down to spell, use*


No...scrolling...through...menus...please.

Gawd that is such a horrible mechanic. I don't want lengthy lists of actions and other associated crap to scroll through in order to find the one I want to use. I want to have a key bound to that action and I want to push the key and watch it go. I want the game to be about what's happening on the battlefield, not what's happening in list menus.
#32 Aug 01 2009 at 12:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Imagine a Thief firing off Sneak Attack + Trick Attack + Shark Bite. At most, you are looking at three macros using the FFXI system, though this combo can be initiated with a single macro.

Now imagine typing "/Sn" enter "/Tr" enter "/Sha" enter for that same combo. Assuming there are no typos, you're still looking at significantly more input than is necessary.


You wouldn't use that feature for complicated, frequently use ability sets though. This would be more for the situational ability that you don't really need or want a macro for, or maybe the macro you wrote isn't working perfectly in this situation. Maybe you need to do a SATA WS for a SC, but your SC partner died unexpectedly, and you need to switch to a new SC partner, but you don't have a macro for that SATA WS. In that case, /sn enter /tr enter /sha enter may be preferable to editing your macro mid battle.

Especially when /waits are required for commands, and I can type out three characters in less than a second easily.


But I want to point out that macros are just another way of inputting commands. Before macros, and even still today, games have managed to get by with just regular controllers. You still get characters that can execute dozens of actions, but with button combos rather than keystrokes. There's no reason you can't write a macro that's executed with a "Hold R, Press Right + A" rather than a "Press F10." And you might think that sounds more complicated, but to someone who is used to a controller, they can often input those same commands as fast or faster than someone who is used to a keyboard, purely by virtue of having practiced on controllers for so long. You have a lot of gamers who can execute a twelve button combo faster than they can find the F6 key, or press Ctrl Y.

And I guess the issue moreover, is that I think there are a lot of players who want this kind of option.

Quote:
Mouse gestures are unlikely as this would be difficult to port from the PS3.


It's really nothing that can't be done with the D stick, but I'm not opposed to additional hardware like touchpads, or possibly even the Wiimote ripoff.

Quote:
And once again you are more likely to make an error at a critical moment in the battle (like during the middle of a skillchain) trying to execute a specific mouse move than simply pressing ALT+1.


Well, that's kind of the idea really. It keeps you on your toes, adds difficulty to the game, refines motor skills, etc.

Quote:
Button combos might also be difficult to port to a keyboard from a controller, and aren't FFXI macros simplified button combos anyway?


They shouldn't be at all difficult to port. There's no reason why they would be, and really no reason why you'd need to port them in the first place. And to your question, it's a tradeoff. The command input is simplified in exchange for a more complicated interface device. You may think a button combo is cumbersome, but to many people, a keyboard where a controller will do is more cumbersome.

Quote:
No...scrolling...through...menus...please.


I think it's another example of an easy to implement option. It's not so difficult to add to the game and it would take nothing away from the people who choose not to use it.

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#33 Aug 02 2009 at 12:31 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:


No...scrolling...through...menus...please.

Gawd that is such a horrible mechanic. I don't want lengthy lists of actions and other associated crap to scroll through in order to find the one I want to use. I want to have a key bound to that action and I want to push the key and watch it go. I want the game to be about what's happening on the battlefield, not what's happening in list menus.


In all fairness, FFXI gave you that exact option... you just had to make a macro. A macro that was MUCH MUCH easier to make than anything I have experienced in other MMOs.

Seriously, if anyone was scrolling through menus in order to use an ability or cast a spell, then you were doing it wrong.

Having a way to see cool downs would be nice... except you could do that with macros...

The main problem with FFXI macros was the gear swapping, and the limitation of only a few lines... but if you get rid of the gear swapping then 6-7 lines is great for a macro.

So just get rid of the need to gear swap, and the whole issue is resolved.

I hate having to load non-developer UI mods into a game... it shows that the developer never put enough time into making the gameplay.
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#34 Aug 03 2009 at 5:06 AM Rating: Decent
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22,699 posts
Windower's macro system would be perfect really.
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