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#1 Aug 01 2009 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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I know its over in the FFXI section, but that latests article by Thayos and Elmer kicks ***. Very good job you two! Hopefully SE will give us all some kind of response.
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#2 Aug 01 2009 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
Just to link to the article in question: Has Square Enix Banned Logic?

Just a little something to cogitate on when you see that shiny FFXIV box on that store shelf.
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#3 Aug 01 2009 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
I read stuff like that and all I can do is think, "Hmmm...I sure hope they get it figured out by the time FFXIV goes live."

I almost ordered a copy of the Vana'diel Collection 2008 to kill some time in FFXI before FFXIV. As it was, it was such a hassle to get a copy I wound up going back to WoW and now I'm glad. Had I gone through all that trouble just to get a retail copy of the game to play only to find out a month later that my payment method may or may not be suitable going forward, I'd have been quite angry. Angry enough, in fact, to tell SE where to shove FFXI and FFXIV.
#4 Aug 01 2009 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
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Indeed. For while the issue is specifically adressing concerns with FFXI, it will also reflect on their next MMORPG as well. I for one don't want to see this kind of BS happen with FFXIV.

Oh and thanks for the link, I completely forgot to link it.
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#5 Aug 01 2009 at 9:33 PM Rating: Good
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I wont be playing 14 because of the crap I went through in 11.

SE doesnt care about us, I play WoW as well (Dont turn this into a 11 vs WoW thread), and you would never ever ever ever ever see a backlash from the community like your seeing here. They listen to what the community has to say and update the game accordingly, people will always *****. Example: at one time Mages were way overpowered in WoW, they turned down the strength of Mages, and most of the community was happy... But mages ******* of course, its going to happen.

I played 11 because I was hooked, game-wise, socially, and **** even economically. I invested alot of money into this game and didnt want to throw it away. Needless to say I sold my character and at least made some money to buy some 360 games or something.

The same company is making FF14, if they are willing to let this terrible PR and relations image go on now, WHILE THEY ARE MARKETING THEIR NEW GAME, what the **** do you expect after you get hooked into ff14. The same crap in a different game.

Someone on my server said in his blog, and I quote, not to mention wholeheartedly agree with.

"Starting ff14 after quitting 11 would be like starting crystal meth after quitting heroine."

Different product, same negative, terrible experience.
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#6 Aug 01 2009 at 10:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah I really do hope it gets figured out before FFXIV. I broke in 2007 when I finally figured out that working in advertising and playing FFXI as a casual player was impossible. If this **** happens in FFXIV I won't look back.

As a former gardener with 2 mules I did NPC non ore left overs. So I could totally see me getting banned.

It seems SE thinks lines of code can fix all their problems. Since they don't have to pay an hourly wage to humans. And the customer service seems to be getting worse. More so then I thought possible. I really think they are hiding the fact that operating income for FFXI is so miniscule that it is actually hurting the playerbase by implementing methods which require less human interaction. With the acquisition of Eidos and the economy not so great. I don't know if 140 million is a steal for the assets and talent (cough, cough). Not to mention paying the 600 employees who are currently with Eidos and operating cost of all those locations. I really feel SE has spread themselves to thin with a horrible economy to boot.

On a different note. What ever happened to the RMT task force? Reduced to lines of code?
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#7 Aug 02 2009 at 12:17 AM Rating: Default
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Needless to say I sold my character


So you support RMT in MMORPGS.

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, I play WoW as well (Dont turn this into a 11 vs WoW thread), and you would never ever ever ever ever see a backlash from the community like your seeing here.


Yeah, don't worry about it turning into a WoW vs 11 thread... just a 'Coldharted is an idiot' thread.

I am glad you won't be in 14, one less RMT guy to worry about. I just hope you aren't also on my WoW server.

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Ragnorak- BLM75/WHM75/BRD75/WAR75

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Different product, same negative, terrible experience.


An experience negative and terrible enough to get you to max out 4 jobs? ****.. must have been no fun at all.

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I played 11 because I was hooked, game-wise, socially, and **** even economically.


Yeah, must have been a totally 'terrible experience' to get you hooked.

Quote:

Someone on my server said in his blog, and I quote, not to mention wholeheartedly agree with.
"Starting ff14 after quitting 11 would be like starting crystal meth after quitting heroine."


Well #1... why the **** are you reading random blogs from someone on your server?
and #2.. comparing a video game with an actual drug addiction is like comparing pixie sticks with crack.

You obviously seem to have a self-confessed problem with playing games, perhaps Jack Thompson could help you out.
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#8 Aug 02 2009 at 12:22 AM Rating: Default
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437 posts
rate up
#9 Aug 02 2009 at 12:35 AM Rating: Default
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555 posts
Lookie here, I found a "Brown Nose" thread, w00t!
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#10 Aug 02 2009 at 12:42 AM Rating: Decent
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I wont be playing 14 because of the crap I went through in 11.


What crap exactly did you go through in FFXI (when it comes to PR and player relations)? Just curious.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2009 8:42am by Hyanmen
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#11 Aug 02 2009 at 3:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thanks, I'm glad you liked it. We were hoping it would help represent what most players are feeling right now. Thayos and I worked hard together to get a clear point across (and temper our own frustrations) to try and get some reaction from Square Enix. Still waiting, though.
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#12 Aug 02 2009 at 5:42 AM Rating: Decent
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It is a great article and hopefully SE will pay some attention to it as well. I really doubt it however. SE has shown a complete lack of concern over what players think as long as it doesn't affect their bottom line. I would be extremely surprised if they change anything at this point, just as I would be surprised if they operated in a different manner with FFXIV.

FFXIV might look like a great game, might have great graphics, might have a great story line. Unfortunately, its going to have the same inconsiderate, incompetent, couldn't care less about the players, people running it.

If SE doesn't pull their heads out of their collective asses before its release, there is no chance I am going to give them the opportunity to get my money or loyalty they way they did with FFXI.
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#13 Aug 02 2009 at 10:47 AM Rating: Decent
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1. I sold my character to my LS leader for 40 dollars. Whatever you want to make of that go head. He offered it cause it was a good character, I accepted. Sue me.

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Yeah, don't worry about it turning into a WoW vs 11 thread... just a 'Coldharted is an idiot' thread.

I am glad you won't be in 14, one less RMT guy to worry about. I just hope you aren't also on my WoW server.

Mature.

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Ragnorak- BLM75/WHM75/BRD75/WAR75

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Different product, same negative, terrible experience.


An experience negative and terrible enough to get you to max out 4 jobs? ****.. must have been no fun at all.


I know you read the part where I said I was hooked, socially, game-wise and economically because you quoted it. Thats why I continued to play. Pretty easy to understand no? Mostly socially.

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Someone on my server said in his blog, and I quote, not to mention wholeheartedly agree with.
"Starting ff14 after quitting 11 would be like starting crystal meth after quitting heroine."


Well #1... why the **** are you reading random blogs from someone on your server?
and #2.. comparing a video game with an actual drug addiction is like comparing pixie sticks with crack.

You obviously seem to have a self-confessed problem with playing games, perhaps Jack Thompson could help you out.


#1. Because I play the same game he does? Why are you allakhazam reading random posts from people who arent even on your server! Your so *** man!!!
I dont understand what the **** you were getting at with that comment.

#2 Im not comparing the final fantasy addiction to a heroine addiction. Obviously one is much worse. I compared a drug addiction to a drug addiction, and a video game to a video game. It's called an analogy.

Starting 14 after going through a bad time in 11 would start a new bad time.

Starting crystal meth after quitting heroine would start a new bad time.

I'm well past the days were I randomly insult people over a forum, so have your fun with the "coldharted is an idiot comments"... Now lets try and act mature. After all, thats one of the bonuses of FFXI, the community is very mature for the most part.

And how can you defend a company that blindly bans so many legit players? The game was good like 4 years ago. After that first 2 years it just went way downhill for me, and I know I'm not alone. We played because we were hooked, not because it was a good game, although it wasn't a terrible game.

I know I dont need to start linking threads with the recent banning of so many legit gardeners and people who updated CC info, I'm sure your aware of that.

Question- If SE can treat their customers like this while they are marketing their new product, then what do you expect after you get hooked into 14? The same negative experiences you have now! They dont care.
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#14 Aug 02 2009 at 10:56 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Quote:
I wont be playing 14 because of the crap I went through in 11.


What crap exactly did you go through in FFXI (when it comes to PR and player relations)? Just curious.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2009 8:42am by Hyanmen


Just PR problems? Ok. I'll leave some of the stuff that is personal to me to prevent myself from being called a liar, nothing too major anyway.

Generally speaking, can we all agree that 90% of the gm staff is useless? Those people represent SE, and they hardly ever do anything even regarding the smallest issues. I know so many people who made GM calls about the easily remediable problems they had, and we're told "we'll look into it" with no result. Theres one.

2. Well. Look at how many people just got banned for no reason. That's PR right there, you think these guys are looking at SE through big blue shining eyes right now? No. They are ******* and they should be. ****, even the salvage bans could be argued as BS bans. There is a flaw in the game that people exploited when the best best armor was dangled on a string right in front of them, it's like if Megan Fox came into my house naked for an emergency *********** I might have to cheat on my girlfriend. Salvage was so hard (drop rates), that of course people would exploit an easier way to get their gear. That matter is debatable but whatever, at least some of the blame is on SE for their ****** programming.

3. Try calling them. (This is anecdotal) My friend was a noob in FFXI. Played for about 2 months so he wasn't all adept in navigating PoL and whatnot. He wanted to cancel his account, called SE and they said he had to go through PoL to do it. He said he couldnt figure it out, **** it took me about a half hour to finally cancel my account after I finally looked up on the web how to do it. The SE rep he spoke to wouldn't help him through it, so he called me and I went over to do it for him. Myself and many others if you read any SE forum, feel they dont care. They just dont care. They either dont care about anyone, or they only care about their JP playerbase.

But why the **** can't they just cancel it over the phone. How hard is it to send a verification email to the guy to make sure no frauds going on and then cancel it for him. Its these type of situations that are going to negatively impact the success of FFXIV.
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#15 Aug 02 2009 at 11:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Just PR problems? Ok. I'll leave some of the stuff that is personal to me to prevent myself from being called a liar, nothing too major anyway.


That's exactly what I wanted to hear.."What crap exactly did you go through in FFXI". Not what crap others have gone through.

Seems like you really went through the "I read on the forums that someone got banned and got upset about it" crap that SE threw at you, oh god :'(.

Those who got banned should be ********* but why should you be *******

Those who exploited Salvage bug kept it hidden from SE for ages. No wonder the big brother got ****** after that.

At least 3. is your own experience... but really, one bad experience makes you hate them?

As for myself, I once got dc'd in Arrapago remnants due to server unstability. I asked for a new permit after, but the GM didn't give me one. Sucks, but really, so what? It's one permit. Life isn't over. I kept enjoying the game after that.

If SE'd punch you repeatedly in the balls I could understand- but one or 2 bad experiences over years and players are ready to go on barricades? It's comical.
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#16 Aug 02 2009 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
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ColdHarted wrote:
I wont be playing 14 because of the crap I went through in 11.


You see...having that as your first sentence totally disqualifies you, in my eyes, to any sort of logical argument. Why even both READING a game forum, let alone posting, when not only you have no intention of playing the game but isn't even going to be released for at least 6 months?

It's that sort of thing that makes me want to skip the rest of your post (I read it anyway) and any other post you ever make (which I will).


Sure, I've been burned in FFXI and I wont ever play it again because of it but that doesn't mean FFXIV will be as bad...the fact that they are getting rid of POL says to me they are at least trying to do better.
#17 Aug 02 2009 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
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One thing I'll always try to remember when thinking about the the present FFXI is that if you play your favorite game long enough, at some point it'll get boring and you start finding faults that you didn't see before.

I enjoyed the game for a long time and only recently it has started to taste like wood and all the small annoyances add up. But that doesn't mean that it wasn't good before.

Unlike single player games that people just quit after clearing or playing enough, many FFXI players just kept playing past that point, "because of their friends", "see if the updates make things better" and for other various reasons. If they had just quit after the game didn't feel the same anymore, I'm sure they'd be saying different things today.

Everyone of us had at least that small or big timeframe when they got addicted to FFXI... you don't get addicted to games you think are bad, right? So FFXI must've been great until some point at least.

To me, the point I started disliking some things came after I had catched up with the updates.. the dev team just can't keep adding enough content before I get bored again. But I guess their intention is to only delay the inevitable point when everyone catches up with all the stuff they've added.. and then things start going downhill by default, I guess.
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#18 Aug 02 2009 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Quote:
Just PR problems? Ok. I'll leave some of the stuff that is personal to me to prevent myself from being called a liar, nothing too major anyway.


That's exactly what I wanted to hear.."What crap exactly did you go through in FFXI". Not what crap others have gone through.

Seems like you really went through the "I read on the forums that someone got banned and got upset about it" crap that SE threw at you, oh god :'(.

Those who got banned should be ********* but why should you be *******

Those who exploited Salvage bug kept it hidden from SE for ages. No wonder the big brother got ****** after that.

At least 3. is your own experience... but really, one bad experience makes you hate them?

As for myself, I once got dc'd in Arrapago remnants due to server unstability. I asked for a new permit after, but the GM didn't give me one. Sucks, but really, so what? It's one permit. Life isn't over. I kept enjoying the game after that.

If SE'd punch you repeatedly in the balls I could understand- but one or 2 bad experiences over years and players are ready to go on barricades? It's comical.


SE treated their playerbase so poorly. Just because I'm not banned for gardening I should what? pretend it didnt happen? No. It's valid.

As for myself, I've played for 4 or 5 years, so I dont remember every single incident exactly, but I do know I, along with most other were upset with their customer service.

The GM system is terrible. Numerous time I reported fishing bots back before the update, in windurst. Nothing was done even if they sit there 24/7.

The job balance system is so flawed its unremarkable. Players used to LFP for 3+ hours at a time, how long did it take them to listen to the community and implement level sync?

Look at AV. SE is a genius company for that mob, they put it in, and refuse to fix it after the whole community complains.

They dont listen to their community, they just add items that cost 10$ irl for you to buy.
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#19 Aug 02 2009 at 11:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
ColdHarted wrote:
I wont be playing 14 because of the crap I went through in 11.


You see...having that as your first sentence totally disqualifies you, in my eyes, to any sort of logical argument. Why even both READING a game forum, let alone posting, when not only you have no intention of playing the game but isn't even going to be released for at least 6 months?

It's that sort of thing that makes me want to skip the rest of your post (I read it anyway) and any other post you ever make (which I will).


Sure, I've been burned in FFXI and I wont ever play it again because of it but that doesn't mean FFXIV will be as bad...the fact that they are getting rid of POL says to me they are at least trying to do better.


I read this forum because I played FFXI for a long time. Very long time. I quit recently and I like seeing how people feel about the game and SE. This is the forum that covers that for the most part, because there are no game mechanics to discuss, because as you said... this game doesnt come out for a long time.

The fact that there getting rid of a major part of the game that was PoL shows the problems that FFXI has. ****** PR/ customer service.

They got rid of them for ff14 because they were terrible in 11.
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#20 Aug 02 2009 at 12:01 PM Rating: Default
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SE treated their playerbase so poorly. Just because I'm not banned for gardening I should what? pretend it didnt happen? No. It's valid.


What did happen? Did something happen to you? Or to a stranger in the internet?

I myself don't care about every tragic death that happens in the world right now, since I don't even know those people that die.. glad to see there's someone out there who cares about these strangers though, thumbs up for that.

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The GM system is terrible. Numerous time I reported fishing bots back before the update, in windurst. Nothing was done even if they sit there 24/7.


You report them to the STF, not GM's..

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The job balance system is so flawed its unremarkable. Players used to LFP for 3+ hours at a time, how long did it take them to listen to the community and implement level sync?


There wasn't even a need for level sync until recently when amount of people lfp at midlevels started dropping. SE was pretty fast at fixing that problem imo.

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Look at AV. SE is a genius company for that mob, they put it in, and refuse to fix it after the whole community complains.


One mob is unkillable, game is ruined. Also, they did fix it after the whole community complained, lol.

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They dont listen to their community, they just add items that cost 10$ irl for you to buy.


Players wanted better rewards and more missions, SE adds better rewards and more missions. Your examples kind of fail =/.





Edited, Aug 2nd 2009 8:04pm by Hyanmen
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#21 Aug 02 2009 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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What did happen? Did something happen to you? Or to a stranger in the internet?

I myself don't care about every tragic death that happens in the world right now, since I don't even know those people that die.. glad to see there's someone out there who cares about these strangers though, thumbs up for that.


I'm a customer. What happens to other customers is subject to happen to me as well, if I got banned for no reason at all I would flip a ****. Hundred of people who played for years got banned for nothing, and your counter-argument is that I didnt get banned so I shouldn't give a ****? It could of been me. How do you not question SE when they ban their loyal customers for nothing? I dont understand. Your attempt at humor and satire is not funny either, since your losing credibility because instead of actually answering the matter you just make a sarcastic remark that says nothing. What if it was you? I bet your opinion of SE would flip instantly if you lost years of real work because SE decided to be ignorant one day.

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The GM system is terrible. Numerous time I reported fishing bots back before the update, in windurst. Nothing was done even if they sit there 24/7.


You report them to the STF, not GM's..


I have before. But that again proves the GM system is next to useless. They cant even handle obvious fishing bots? What the **** is it that they CAN do? The problem remains because the GMs = SE. The GMs and STF didnt do anything, that means SE didnt do anything either, so the company fails. It took them so long to ban even the most obvious bots and RMT.

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The job balance system is so flawed its unremarkable. Players used to LFP for 3+ hours at a time, how long did it take them to listen to the community and implement level sync?


There wasn't even a need for level sync until recently when amount of people lfp at midlevels started dropping. SE was pretty fast at fixing that problem imo.


Thats your opinion, that there wasnt a need for lvlsync. What I said was facts.

People used to seek for hours at a time, seek, without even being able to play the game. Fact. This wasn't a problem? It took them years to even do anything to attempt to remedy that problem. So how is that "pretty fast". They ignored it until it got to the point where people who were lvl 40 had noone to play with at all. The leveling system was so flawed. Looking back at all the time I wasted LFP I could of spent doing something else. But I was hooked, socially, game-wise and economically, like I said before. Other people experience the same thing, they are too invested to just stop playing.

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Look at AV. SE is a genius company for that mob, they put it in, and refuse to fix it after the whole community complains.


One mob is unkillable, game is ruined. Also, they did fix it after the whole community complained, lol.


Ok. Thats not what I said at all. I did not say AV singlehandledly ruined the game, so don't contort my words. AV is another example of SE not caring about its players. Again a sarcastic remark that fails to answer the problem I put infront of your face.

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They dont listen to their community, they just add items that cost 10$ irl for you to buy.


Players wanted better rewards and more missions, SE adds better rewards and more missions. Your examples kind of fail =/.


Ok. Aside from the past couple of months, when has anything that it used in-game been sold for real life money. XI is dying and their trying to squeeze every penny out of their consumers, its a business tactic that is frowned upon in the real world. I understand this isn't exactly a fortune 500, but still, its a matter of ethics. Maybe since its a video game that kids use their parents credit cards to play, they feel they dont have to use ethics because the kids will buy anything after their hooked. I dont know.

To you, instead of requoting everything I just said and using sarcasm as an attempt to completely contort the facts that I clearly laid infront of your face, that you seem to be unable to answer, answer this.

How can you defend a companies actions of mass-banning so much of their playerbase for no reason? Theres no compassion between SE and their consumers. If they are willing to do this stuff while they are MARKETING FF14, what do you expect in ff14? That gardening ban could of been you. Just because you didnt get banned you can defend SE? Mocking me for feeling bad for "strangers over the internet", which essentially they are, but I am a real person in real life, and if I know im subject to be banned for no reason due to SE's ignorance, why the **** would I pump money into their product?
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#22 Aug 02 2009 at 1:45 PM Rating: Default
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I'm a customer. What happens to other customers is subject to happen to me as well, if I got banned for no reason at all I would flip a sh*t. Hundred of people who played for years got banned for nothing, and your counter-argument is that I didnt get banned so I shouldn't give a sh*t? It could of been me. How do you not question SE when they ban their loyal customers for nothing? I dont understand. Your attempt at humor and satire is not funny either, since your losing credibility because instead of actually answering the matter you just make a sarcastic remark that says nothing. What if it was you? I bet your opinion of SE would flip instantly if you lost years of real work because SE decided to be ignorant one day.


What's the chance? Same as dying in a car accident, roughly. Doesn't sound like that horrible rate to me, actually I wouldn't worry about it at all, especially since I can avoid doing things that may get me flagged for 'irregular activities' in the first place like gardening with 30 mules.

Other people die in a car accidents, should I give a ****? Mmm, I'll say nope. What makes this 'customer relationship' that much more special that you suddenly care about random people more than in real life? It could have been you that died in one of those car accidents too!

Of course my opinion would change if SE banned me- however it hasn't happened to me (nor you) and the chance of it happening is so small that there's no reason to even worry about such thing happening. Of course forums make it look like such a big issue, but it's quite small in the end. 2000 get banned, 398 000 keep playing.

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I have before. But that again proves the GM system is next to useless. They cant even handle obvious fishing bots? What the **** is it that they CAN do? The problem remains because the GMs = SE. The GMs and STF didnt do anything, that means SE didnt do anything either, so the company fails. It took them so long to ban even the most obvious bots and RMT.


See what happened after SE started banning 'obvious bots and RMT' without proof? Yeah.. try to decide what you want already. Either SE finds enough proof of each case that there'll surely be no wrong bannings, or they start banning the 'obvious cases' and few casualties are sure to follow.

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People used to seek for hours at a time, seek, without even being able to play the game. Fact. This wasn't a problem? It took them years to even do anything to attempt to remedy that problem. So how is that "pretty fast". They ignored it until it got to the point where people who were lvl 40 had noone to play with at all. The leveling system was so flawed. Looking back at all the time I wasted LFP I could of spent doing something else. But I was hooked, socially, game-wise and economically, like I said before. Other people experience the same thing, they are too invested to just stop playing.


Yeah the core of the system was flawed, not much they can do about it. Should have figured these things out before the game came out in the first place.

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Ok. Thats not what I said at all. I did not say AV singlehandledly ruined the game, so don't contort my words. AV is another example of SE not caring about its players. Again a sarcastic remark that fails to answer the problem I put infront of your face.


How did that mob's status affect you? I personally couldn't care less about AV, but you seem to have more experience with it than I do? Yeah, it's obvious example of "SE doesn't care Q_Q" but I'm not interested about that... only about the things SE did wrong to you.

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Ok. Aside from the past couple of months, when has anything that it used in-game been sold for real life money


Hmm, I have 4 examples to give. Rise of the zilart, Chains of Promathia, Treasures of Aht Urhgan and Wings of the Goddess.

Also, welcome to DLC. Every gaming company does this, but only SE is evil for doing so (when the money spent/reward gained ratio is actually better than in most DLC content out there)?

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How can you defend a companies actions of mass-banning so much of their playerbase for no reason? Theres no compassion between SE and their consumers. If they are willing to do this stuff while they are MARKETING FF14, what do you expect in ff14? That gardening ban could of been you. Just because you didnt get banned you can defend SE? Mocking me for feeling bad for "strangers over the internet", which essentially they are, but I am a real person in real life, and if I know im subject to be banned for no reason due to SE's ignorance, why the **** would I pump money into their product?


You're looking at my posts at a wrong perspective. I'm not defending SE as much as I'm trying to understand the mindset of you people who SE hasn't done anything personally but still feel they don't want to play FFXIV because of things that happened to people on the internet. What SE did was wrong, but it doesn't concern me in any way whatsoever so I'm a bit confused as to why I should hate SE for it.

I might get banned in FFXIV, but if the chance stays at 1% or less then uhh... no problemo. Not a big risk enough to not make me pay for the game, really. Plus I doubt it'll happen in XIV personally, heh.

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SE:
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#23 Aug 02 2009 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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299 posts
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Other people die in a car accidents, should I give a sh*t? Mmm, I'll say nope. What makes this 'customer relationship' that much more special that you suddenly care about random people more than in real life? It could have been you that died in one of those car accidents too!

Of course my opinion would change if SE banned me- however it hasn't happened to me (nor you) and the chance of it happening is so small that there's no reason to even worry about such thing happening. Of course forums make it look like such a big issue, but it's quite small in the end. 2000 get banned, 398 000 keep playing.


1. Stop comparing this to real life. Dying in a car accident is different then getting your account banned. Also. Dying in a car accident is a random occurence that is unstoppable, it happens.

Banning these accounts was on the fault of ignorance.

Regarding your second point about forums exxagderating the problems -- Agreed.

People dont make threads that say "I didnt get banned for anything. I'm happy" on a daily basis. So yes it does make it seem worse.

But you say 2000 people got banned, I dont know if you pulled that out of your *** or whatever, but if thats anywhere near correct then wow. 2000 paying customers, most of which have probably been playing for years, get dropped like a piece of trash. Why should that even happen to one player?

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See what happened after SE started banning 'obvious bots and RMT' without proof? Yeah.. try to decide what you want already. Either SE finds enough proof of each case that there'll surely be no wrong bannings, or they start banning the 'obvious cases' and few casualties are sure to follow.


Ok. See. The two scenarios you listed are neither of which actually happened. I wish SE acted like one of those scenarios you just said. The problem is instead of actually working to find out who's legit and who's not they used the "Got a lot of mules? Ban." system. Which ensures a ton of casualties.

If they take forever to get enough proof to warrant a ban, it takes longer with no casaulties, fine.

If they start banning "Obvious cases", ie people named Jdalsbjd who do nothing but camp NMs, or whatever the **** they do for money these days, and trade multiple players extreme amounts of gil for no reason, yes there will probably be a few legit players mixed in. A few, as in 10, not 2000.

They banned everyone with gardening mules, which is like firing an AK47 into a crowd of 10,000 people when theres 5 terrorists in there. Yeah, you kill the terrorists, but at what cost?
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Ragnorak- BLM75/WHM75/BRD75/WAR75
ColdHarted



#24 Aug 02 2009 at 2:16 PM Rating: Default
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1. Stop comparing this to real life. Dying in a car accident is different then getting your account banned. Also. Dying in a car accident is a random occurence that is unstoppable, it happens.


If you die or not is irrelevant. My basic point is that people don't worry about things that have such a small chance of happening that it's not really realistically possible that the same might happen to you too. Ignorance or random occurence or not, the chance is extremely tiny and not worth losing your sleep over.

What I find really interesting is the mindset that when something bad happens to others, you take it like it happened to you personally too. I don't really see this type of behaviour in real life, so I'm curious as to what might have caused it. I personally am in a pretty much same situation as you are, but I don't share the same kind of mindset (which is why I have not much problem with SE in general I guess).

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If they take forever to get enough proof to warrant a ban, it takes longer with no casaulties, fine.


That's what they've done for years now.. only recently they started to sport the idea you gave, ban the obvious cases.

The 2000 I said was mostly about the credit card bans, I don't know the actual number of how many people got banned for RMTish reasons. And those situations were so rare that we're not talking about many people here (be on a free trial and trade tokopekko wildgrass to NPC X on one zone for 6+ stacks), (have 30 gardening mules), etc.

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They banned everyone with gardening mules, which is like firing an AK47 into a crowd of 10,000 people when theres 5 terrorists in there. Yeah, you kill the terrorists, but at what cost?


I'll throw a guess that there were a lot more RMT abusing gardening than there were legit players using it. So, 10,000 terrorists with 5 civilians in the mix sounds like a more realistic number.


Edited, Aug 2nd 2009 10:22pm by Hyanmen
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SE:
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#25 Aug 02 2009 at 2:29 PM Rating: Good
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299 posts
I'll agree to disagree with you on that note then.

You - Small chance of happening, probably wont happen to me, brush it off, indifference.

Me - Shouldn't be happening at all, easily preventable, I can't support a game that treats my colleagues like crap knowing they might do the same to me.

Fair?
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Ragnorak- BLM75/WHM75/BRD75/WAR75
ColdHarted



#26 Aug 02 2009 at 2:32 PM Rating: Default
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456 posts
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They banned everyone with gardening mules, which is like firing an AK47 into a crowd of 10,000 people when theres 5 terrorists in there. Yeah, you kill the terrorists, but at what cost?


If people are wearing terrorist uniforms then they shouldn't get mad when they get fired at. Having gardening mules and storing the gil on a lvl 1 character is like walking into a bank with a ski mask on. Sure you didn't do anything wrong so you are "legit" but you look like you are or will do something wrong. If I walked into a bank with a ski mask on to cash my check, I wouldn't get mad when the police snag me up. Same as if I had tons of gardening mules and all that gil on a lvl 1 character, I wouldn't be mad when I get banned because I look like a rmt.
#27 Aug 02 2009 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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299 posts
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If people are wearing terrorist uniforms then they shouldn't get mad when they get fired at. Having gardening mules and storing the gil on a lvl 1 character is like walking into a bank with a ski mask on. Sure you didn't do anything wrong so you are "legit" but you look like you are or will do something wrong. If I walked into a bank with a ski mask on to cash my check, I wouldn't get mad when the police snag me up. Same as if I had tons of gardening mules and all that gil on a lvl 1 character, I wouldn't be mad when I get banned because I look like a rmt.


So then camping NMs back in day, monopolizing a market, or anything else RMT does to make money should be grounds for a ban? If thats what you mean by the uniform metaphor. Not to mention the guys prob had 75 chars and multiple years under their belt as subscribers. Unless they recently became RMT out nowhere, which is illogical imo.

They werent using an exploit. Perfect legit, in-game way to make money. It was legit. If SE had a problem with people overusing their gardening system they should of told people to stop (COMMUNICATION, COMPASSION), instead of just blidnly banning them.

Gardening mules is something RMT does, im aware of that. But its also something a lot of legit players do, as seen with the bannings. SE obviously considers their gardening system a problem, why not just fix it to stop it, instead of mass-banning?

edit:spelling



Edited, Aug 2nd 2009 6:38pm by ColdHarted
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Ragnorak- BLM75/WHM75/BRD75/WAR75
ColdHarted



#28 Aug 02 2009 at 2:42 PM Rating: Decent
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3,416 posts
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I'll agree to disagree with you on that note then.

You - Small chance of happening, probably wont happen to me, brush it off, indifference.

Me - Shouldn't be happening at all, easily preventable, I can't support a game that treats my colleagues like crap knowing they might do the same to me.

Fair?


Yep, I understand much better now, it's too bad though. The game will still probably be good, try not to let just the bad CS decide for you if possible D:
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SE:
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#29 Aug 02 2009 at 3:09 PM Rating: Default
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456 posts
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So then camping NMs back in day, monopolizing a market, or anything else RMT does to make money should be grounds for a ban? If thats what you mean by the uniform metaphor. Not to mention the guys prob had 75 chars and multiple years under their belt as subscribers. Unless they recently became RMT out nowhere, which is illogical imo.

They werent using an exploit. Perfect legit, in-game way to make money. It was legit. If SE had a problem with people overusing their gardening system they should of told people to stop (COMMUNICATION, COMPASSION), instead of just blidnly banning them.

Gardening mules is something RMT does, im aware of that. But its also something a lot of legit players do, as seen with the bannings. SE obviously considers their gardening system a problem, why not just fix it to stop it, instead of mass-banning?


First of off, what is "grounds for a ban" is for SE to decide it is their game. Secondly, sure rmt does everything but their are certain things that people know looks very rmtish, and tons of gardening mules and storing gil on a lvl1 mule is one of them things. I meant their are certain things that EVERYONE knows is risky and looks very rmtish, and you should just aviod these highly risky things instead of making SE look like the big bad wolf. Like I said walking into a bank with a ski mask on is not against the law (totally legal or "legit"), but it will get you snagged up. Why will it? Because you look like you are doing something wrong, and if you don't believe me, then next time you go cash your check have a ski mask on.

Things like double billing people and stuff is something that has to be much better then it is now. No person should be overly charged and then given the cold shoulder. I do care about what happens to other players, but not when you do stuff that makes you look exactly like rmt. I have never been banned nor do I know anybody that has been banned that didn't deserve it or looked like they did. Most people that get banned will never admit it, but did deserve it.


#30 Aug 02 2009 at 9:15 PM Rating: Good
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736 posts
What really elevates this situation from questionable to so-bad-it's-laughable, isn't so much the banning as the process of getting it resolved.

Granted, banning customers who have been happily shoveling money into your bank account for something amounting to half a decade is generally not a good idea. But at that stage, it's still something you can exact a degree of damage control on. It wouldn't be the first time an MMO corporation broke a few eggs while trying to make an omelet. But it would be the first time I've seen one so utterly unprepared to clean up the resulting mess.

With the slew of top-grade MMOs hitting the market in 2010, SE needs to seriously reconsider it's approach to customer service if FFXIV hopes to remain competitive.



Edited, Aug 3rd 2009 1:21am by Zemzelette
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