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Lack of male Miqo'teFollow

#52 Aug 07 2009 at 3:35 AM Rating: Default
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Why would anyone want to play as a male cat person? I couldn't imagine anything more **** than a male Miqo'te. Its the same as playing a guy that dresses as a cat. I personally would chuckle every time I saw one.

As for female Galkas, that would be like looking at my aunty janet dressed in armour. No thanks.
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#53 Aug 07 2009 at 4:03 AM Rating: Good
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hinchy wrote:
Why would anyone want to play as a male cat person? I couldn't imagine anything more **** than a male Miqo'te. Its the same as playing a guy that dresses as a cat. I personally would chuckle every time I saw one.

As for female Galkas, that would be like looking at my aunty janet dressed in armour. No thanks.


Wow, what an idiot. I know everyone's opinion counts, but I think you're exempt.
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#54 Aug 07 2009 at 5:09 AM Rating: Default
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EndlessJourney just won this topic.
#55 Aug 07 2009 at 5:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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I kind of liked that there was a matriarchal society in FFXI. I see what the OP is getting at but, I don't think that it would detract from the race's lore to have playable males. However, there's no delicate way to say this without sounding like a reverse sexist - I do hope that they keep the rule of the race in the hands of females.
#56 Aug 07 2009 at 5:31 AM Rating: Default
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Wow, what an idiot. I know everyone's opinion counts, but I think you're exempt.


You know what, you're right. My response having just re-read it sounds like that of a child. Apologies.

But I can't help but think when a male 'mithra' character is designed, it will be small and similar to a normal one. I know I'm referring to them as mithra, but thats what they are to me until the game comes out! I suppose if it was done with a far more masculine cat looking figure though then the idea would be more understandable in my mind. All I can see at the moment though is a small male cat... with a tail.. Just doesn't seem quite right to me.

As for the female galkas, I can't imagine any women that have characters would want to make themselves look like a big female galka, nor would a guy unless it was a mule character. Therefore, I think I am standing by my male galka only thinking.

Apologies for earlier stupid ill thought out post :p

Edited, Aug 7th 2009 9:32am by hinchy

Edited, Aug 7th 2009 9:32am by hinchy
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#57keelut, Posted: Aug 07 2009 at 12:29 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yes, people do want fresh new ideas, innovations and change. Male Mithras are not fresh, new or innovative. They would be a minor cosmetic adjustment that changes game play in absolutely now way what so ever. I'm sympathetic to the people who want to play male mithra, but claiming that their addition will bring innovation to the game is ridiculous.
#58 Aug 07 2009 at 1:01 PM Rating: Default
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#59 Aug 07 2009 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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But I can't help but think when a male 'mithra' character is designed, it will be small and similar to a normal one. I know I'm referring to them as mithra, but thats what they are to me until the game comes out! I suppose if it was done with a far more masculine cat looking figure though then the idea would be more understandable in my mind. All I can see at the moment though is a small male cat... with a tail.. Just doesn't seem quite right to me.

As for the female galkas, I can't imagine any women that have characters would want to make themselves look like a big female galka, nor would a guy unless it was a mule character. Therefore, I think I am standing by my male galka only thinking.


I was going to respond to this in more detail, but the post after it is going to take more of my attention.

I mainly want to convey two things to you. First of all, you just need to see some decent concept art for a female Galka. "I can't imagine," seems to be the core of your problem. Think along the lines of an amazon race.

Secondly, I can't appreciate this mentality that, "I don't really want it, so I don't care if lots of other people do." I see this all the time with games that are coming out. People basically just not giving a **** about what their fellow players want in a predominantly social game. Just understand that it goes both ways. Think about something you really want in the game, and imagine you have a lot of supporters. A majority even. Oh well, too bad.

Maybe there's nothing you really want, and that's fine. But if you're really apathetic about something, then just keep it to yourself and stfu. Don't say you don't care and then spit on what other people want in the same breath.

And now on to the main event.

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Pandering to the fan base is a waste of time.


********* Attempting to please all of the people all of the time is a waste. Giving customers what they ask for so that they'll pay money to play your game is not (nor is it technically pandering, but neither is the subject of discussion). Are you assuming that the only people that will play this game are the fan base-- people that will play the game any way? Because for many people this will be their first Final Fantasy and/or their first MMO. And for many people that decision may hinge almost ENTIRELY on whether or not there is a male cat person on the game's box art.

I'm a member of the fan base. Pander to me, or I won't play your game.

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There are also a lot of other vocal minorities that want specific things from XIV.


At this point, it's the majority. Nevermind that if it's even a substantial minority that wants something that doesn't ruin the enjoyment for others, then the smart thing to do is just add it.

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(and it won't surprise you at all to find that the worse the idea, the more supporters it generally has).


It would surprise me enough to call you out on it. Put up or shut up. Link me to an example. Because I've been around for a long time, and generally the better an idea is the more supporters it has. Sure, there are exceptions. There are good ideas with almost no support and bad ideas with lots of support, but that all comes from the perspective of the reader.

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It would be a mistake for SE to try to give us all what we think we want. The game would end up a mess. Better for them to make the game they want to make.


Yes, yes, the old "the game developer knows best" argument. Well, my friend, I could go on and on about the flaw in this line of thinking, but I'll try to keep this argument succinct. Final Fantasy XI. Droves of people quit the game as a result of SE continually ignoring player feedback.

See, you can get away with that kind of thinking in a single player game. The game gets made and released, and at that point player feedback doesn't amount to much. Players vote with their dollars. It was only recently that it was even possible to patch a single player game. But an MMO is nothing like that. If you want to keep subscribers, you have to give them what they want. In a game that's already made, people can accept it much more easily than in a game where you could do an update to give them what they want and simply choose not to.

Really, I have a bone to pick with at least every other thing you said. Suffice it to say that I disagree, rather than going on for pages.

And for the record, I don't even want to play as a male Mi'qote. But I can still see how asinine it is to not put it in the game, and I reject any semblance of the argument that SE knows best as someone who has actually played their recent games.
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#60 Aug 07 2009 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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Hopefully, they will do an interview some time soon whether it be gamescom or TGS and someone asks if male Miqo'te will become reality. I think they should add female Roegadyn, male Miqo'te and one additional race. Come on SE one fast and quick way to differentiate the two mmo's is simple adding female Roegadyn and male Miqo'te and what the **** rub your brains together and give us a completely new option.

Edited, Aug 7th 2009 2:39pm by Ruam
#61 Aug 07 2009 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
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re: Keelut

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly.

Male Mithras is by no means pushing the character design envelope. Frankly, even if they gave it to us, I'd still hold a grudge against Akihiko Yoshida for being so agonizingly trite with the rest of the races when we **** well know they have the talent on board to do more than maintain the status quo.

But, I think you confusing character design decisions with the nebulous social circumstances surrounding Male Mithras. (I think your also confusing character design with character backstory. The designs won't be as less droll no matter how well written the paragraph beside them is. Although you can certainly like them better for it.)

You'll notice, for instance, the lack of Girlka threads. A Male Mithra isn't just *a* gender option for a race. It's a gender option customers have a proven longstanding demand for, especially in their asian core demographic market. That makes a world of difference.

I'm all for it because it would send two very important messages to the playerbase:
One, it would would undermine the stigma of FFXI-2.
Two, it would show a degree of response to customer feedback.

Something sorely needed in light of the recent PR clusterf*ck and years of infamous silence, especially when trying to meaningfully compete with the customer service juggernaut WoW.



Edited, Aug 7th 2009 6:17pm by Zemzelette
#62 Aug 07 2009 at 2:04 PM Rating: Good
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My opinion is that they are just being SE and are holding the already developed genders as a surprise for further down the road.

As to the poll I vote don't care. I think that there are plenty of other ways to make a race intriguing then remove a gender option. I think the lore for the Galka was reasonable and overall their story was quite interesting. For the Mithra I felt the lore was quite weak. I will be satisfied with FFXIV races having limited gender options if the lore is good. But the point is, I find the lore more intriguing then the appearance of a race.

I normally play Dwarves in fantasy games, so in FFXI my only option for an excessively hairy non-human was Mithra. If I have the same limitation for race selection in FFXIV then I would like the ability to have a male avatar. But if I can't, it won't stop me from playing the game.
#63 Aug 07 2009 at 2:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd like for more races to be in this installment. I like the idea of different clans for each race, perhaps physical differences would be cool as well. I'm hoping for the male component to miqo'te to exist, even if they try to act like they are a different race altogether. I'm still hoping for additional races though, like the race with the bunny ears.. (however, I'm pretty sure that would be a female only race?? lol because of the topic XD )
#64 Aug 07 2009 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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Honestly I was kind of ticked that they didn't even add male mithra NPCs to XI, acording to the setting lore there were suposed to be males they were just not pysicly up to the riggors of travel and adventure. They were never suposed to be a unisexual race, just female dominant.

If they don't add male Miqo'te as playable in XIV I realy do hope that we at least see some NPCs, maybe cleaning houses in a cute little maids outfit hehe.
#65 Aug 07 2009 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
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Unfortunately I foresee male miqo'te being NPCs and nothing more. But we shall see.
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#66 Aug 07 2009 at 2:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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#67 Aug 07 2009 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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I second this thought.
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#68 Aug 07 2009 at 3:17 PM Rating: Good
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keelut wrote:
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People want fresh new innovative idea's and changes. Even people who haven't played FFXI will be turned off if they find out it's the EXACT same races in the EXACT same way as FFXI.


Yes, people do want fresh new ideas, innovations and change. Male Mithras are not fresh, new or innovative. They would be a minor cosmetic adjustment that changes game play in absolutely now way what so ever.


Why are you bringing up gameplay? This is obviously NOT about game play, it's about an avatar and your ability to customize it to your personal liking and desires. Don't try to roam off topic to get your point across.

You saying they are not fresh, new, or innovative is a complete and blatant lie in itself. I see from your sig that you have not been playing FFXI very long, I have, for 6 years in fact. I can tell you, as other long time FFXI players can tell you, that a male mithra WOULD be innovative, fresh, and new. So far, we have only seen one, ONE TOTAL in all of FFXI, and he is just a npc in Cut Scenes. And they just RECENTLY added him. Want to know something else? He's one of the most highly loved and talked about NPC's there are. It seems people really like the idea of him.

Also, how is adding a Male to what's already a all Female race (playable wise) a minor cosmetic adjustment? It would be easy for them to implement, yes, but it would be a enormous cosmetic change for the player base. One that is highly sought after, and been asked of for a long long time.

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I'm sympathetic to the people who want to play male mithra, but claiming that their addition will bring innovation to the game is ridiculous.


Claiming it WON'T bring innovation to the game is the only ridiculous assumption here. Honestly, hang around the FFXI boards, the suggestion boards, and the game for a few more years. You will see how big of a demand there is for it. Adding something people have been wanting so bad after so long WOULD INDEED bring innovation in a design and customization spectrum to this game.

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Similarly...

We are getting "fresh new innovative ideas and changes" in pretty much every other aspect of the game


Not True. So far a lot of people are turned off by a lot of the aspects feeling like FFXI 2.0. First, the exactly similar races, that only have differing names and very minor cosmetic changes. Then the fact that the three starter cities are very much like the three in FFXI. Now, I personally LOVE these three new starter cities, in fact I think everyone does.

I also don't think anyone has any complaints with the races as well either. It's not that, it's just people want to feel something new. They want to see different things that captivate them, things they have not seen before. That's another reason adding Male Mithra would be a very good decision at this point.

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from jobs to combat to player roles to traveling to missions. That's the real innovation and change. That's what SE is doing to grow their audience and please their fans.


I will agree here. They are showing some great innovation, new, creative and groundbreaking idea's as far as gameplay and the physics of a MMORPG go. I'm very excited about it personally, but in all fairness you also need to make sure the cosmetics of the game are pleasing to the player base as well. The cosmetics is what will initially sell the game, not everyone is in depth enough to look into the game play aspects, and the innovation that most of us could appreciate. They want to see if it looks like what they want. This is one of the main key factors in selling a video game.

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Minor cosmetic changes such as the addition of male mithra (as pleasing as some of us might find that) do nothing to change the game or differentiate it from FFXI.


Yes it does. It changes a complete stigma and lore that people have not wanted in the first place for a very long time. As I said above, those cosmetic changes, can make a huge difference in selling the game to consumers. And it psyches people out of the FFXI lore mentality, so saying it doesn't differentiate is simply not true at all.

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Pandering to the fan base is a waste of time. Yes, many of us want male mithra, and surely SE is aware of this. There are also a lot of other vocal minorities that want specific things from XIV. A quick scan of this forum will reveal dozens of popular requests, some well informed, others completely asinine (and it won't surprise you at all to find that the worse the idea, the more supporters it generally has). It would be a mistake for SE to try to give us all what we think we want. The game would end up a mess. Better for them to make the game they want to make.


Ohh how wrong you are. When it comes to MMO's giving the fans what they want should always be top priority. As Kachi said, this is not a single player game, where once it's sold that's the end. It's a subscription. If you DON'T give people what they want, they will lose interest and stop playing.

As bad as FFXI is about this, even in how they still refuse to change some things about the game and continue to lose customers over it, they HAVE changed many aspects of the game and given people many things they wanted. This IS what has held FFXI together. If the player base didn't get a lot of changes that the majority came together and asked for a long time ago, I doubt FFXI would even be around anymore. I will give it to Square Enix for at least giving people some things they had asked for, and conforming to some needs.

Every MMORPG must do this, or they don't stand a chance in **** at succeeding.

I've got news for you to, you're right. A lot of suggestions are completely outrageous, and there are many of them flooding this forum. But how can you tell the good from the bad? Not all suggestions are bad and many are very needed and anticipated for. The male mithra suggestion has a HUGE majority of people on it's side, from around the world. If you think WE are bad, you should check out Japanese forums. They want it so incredibly bad it's not even funny.

When you have such a large majority of players supporting one argument, guess what? It's probably for the better to listen to them, and implement it. People are generally smarter about a MMORPG than a company is, when they put their minds together in a majority. Because they know what works for THEM. They know what they want, they evaluate, in a majority, whether something would be beneficial or not and if the majority decides on it, then as I said, it will only do the MMORPG and it's manufacturer good to listen to the consumer about these requests.

Listening to every little suggestion WOULD be a bad idea, but when the majority of the player base begs for something for years, that could be easily implemented, and are greatly turned off by the lack their of, then it is unwise to ignore their desires.

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As far as the races of XIV being the exact same as the races of XI, that doesn't seem to be the case any more. There are certain similarities, but the more we learn, the more different they appear to be both physically and socially.


Ohh please, they are almost exactly the same. I have no problem with it, but many want something fresh and new added. The only races with minor cosmetic changes are the Roegadyn, Miqo'Te, and Lalafell. The Hyur and Elezen are almost exactly like humes and elvaan's, and all the above are still VERY similar to their FFXI counterparts.


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Honestly, adding in male mithra and female galka would (in my opinion) make these races seem much more generic and less interesting).


How so? I think it's generic and less interesting if they work on the exact same rules that they did in FFXI. I think making NEW rules for them would theoretically be more interesting and less generic, given the definition for those words in the first place...

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And if the idea is that a male Miqo'te would make the Miqo'te as a race wholly unique and different then anything we've seen before... really? Aren't there already a dozen other games where you can play male and female cat people?


I haven't seen them, but maybe there is? Is that what the consumer should be told every time they ask for something? Go to "X" game? Guess what, after awhile, they usually will. I remember years ago people constantly saying on forums "Go to WoW" then years later, thousands and thousands of people did. They went to WoW, and Square Enix lost them as customers, and we lost them as friends, and linkshell mates. I don't want to see this kind of bull crap happen anymore because people's needs and desires are not met.

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One of the only things that made the mithra unique and interesting was their single gender race.


If that is the only thing that makes a race interesting to you, is the fact that they are single gender, or gender exclusive, and not all the other points of the race... That's pretty sad, and shallow.

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I guess that's a long post just to say that the "People want fresh new innovative idea's and changes" arguement is really weak.


I think your arguments are pretty weak.

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If you want to play a male mithra or miqo'te, that's fine. Don't try to justify it with weak arguments. that just hurts your case.


All the arguments here are completely legitimate, which is why the majority is on the "pro-male-mithra" side. I think the only one who has hurt their case is you.
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#69 Aug 07 2009 at 4:24 PM Rating: Good
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*starts slow clap...*

Seriously, I couldn't have said it any better Endless. I just wish SE would get this into their narrow minds. Again, great post. :)
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#70 Aug 07 2009 at 5:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Ah adolescent boys and their fantasies of being a young cat boy...

Really I don't want a male mithra, I am really hoping they introduce an entirely new race with the others. To me a Male mithra would be more of the same. I would kill for a moogle race :(...if only...beside if they made male mithra, they'd have to do female galka, and im not sure if im prepared for that.
#71 Aug 07 2009 at 5:34 PM Rating: Good
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It is NOT SE's fault that people have a sort of self entitlement that makes them believe it is their God given right to play as a male mithra.

I have not seen anywhere that they have hinted that this would be a choice.

It's peoples fault for getting their hopes up to high. And then getting mad when they didn't get what they wanted.

On that note, nobody is even sure that they won't be getting what they wanted. But with the first release of new information they didn't hand out the cookies these children wanted so they cry.

If you don't like it. Don't play the game. It's that simple.

And to the guy who said someone was shallow because they thought being gender specific made the race unique (which it did) please don't throw stones from in your glass house. Because it's totally not shallow to demand a male mithra just for appearances sake.

Oh wait. Endless doesn't even want to play a male mithra. He's just taking up arms for everyone that does. What a noble person.

If peoples decision whether or not they will play the game solely hinges on whether or not they can play as a male cat-person then I don't think SE will lose any sleep about losing their subscriptions.
#72 Aug 07 2009 at 5:35 PM Rating: Decent
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zuogehaomeng wrote:
Ah adolescent boys and their fantasies of being a young cat boy...


Do some of you even think before you post? I wonder what kind of rock some of you crawled out from under.
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#73 Aug 07 2009 at 5:49 PM Rating: Good
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Wrip wrote:
It is NOT SE's fault that people have a sort of self entitlement that makes them believe it is their God given right to play as a male mithra.


This "God Given Right" is called the consumers money. We work hard for it, and we give it to Square Enix. Square Enix wants it as well, there needs to be certain connections made so that these transactions happen.

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I have not seen anywhere that they have hinted that this would be a choice.

It's peoples fault for getting their hopes up to high. And then getting mad when they didn't get what they wanted.


There are many reasons people believed there would be Male Mithra. One of the biggest ones is that in the first bit of Art Work put up on the official site, there was what looked to be a more masculine looking Mithra sitting at a table with their head in their hand. This created the discussions about being able to play as a Male Mithra. People have also been begging for Square Enix to add them into FFXI for a very long time. But there were certain story limitations, and the way the game was setup it was not possible.

People thought and assumed, from the art work, and the discussions, that because of the large volume of people asking for Square Enix to implement this, and the fact that it would freshen up the new game, allowing it to NOT play by the exact rules of FFXI, that it would most likely be implemented.

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If you don't like it. Don't play the game. It's that simple.


Do not EVER go into business, or try managing a company (both of which I've personally done). You will fail miserably.

What's more is, people are sick of that argument. It use to be used in FFXI discussions frequently, then died off when people started finding out all their friends were quitting, and that the game started having less and less people every day.

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And to the guy who said someone was shallow because they thought being gender specific made the race unique (which it did) please don't throw stones from in your glass house. Because it's totally not shallow to demand a male mithra just for appearances sake.


Do you even understand what you're saying? It's shallow for some one to admit the only defining point of a race for them was the fact that there was only one gender, but asking for a male counterpart for the male player base so people are not excluded, is shallow? What kind of logic do you go off of my friend?

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Oh wait. Endless doesn't even want to play a male mithra. He's just taking up arms for everyone that does. What a noble person.


Are you retarded? Did you even bother to read my signature??? I've been advocating this since FFXIV was still called "Rapture" and no one knew anything about it. Of course I want to be a Male Mithra, and want to play as one as well.

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If peoples decision whether or not they will play the game solely hinges on whether or not they can play as a male cat-person then I don't think SE will lose any sleep about losing their subscriptions.


Again, don't ever try to manage a company or run your own business. Money is Money, it doesn't matter for what reason. When Square Enix executives go to bed at night knowing they are losing thousands, and possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars, they won't really care what it's from or because of, they are losing money over it. This goes against basic business fundamentals, and Square Enix prides itself as a business.

Edited, Aug 7th 2009 6:51pm by EndlessJourney
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#74 Aug 07 2009 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
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EndlessJourney wrote:
zuogehaomeng wrote:
Ah adolescent boys and their fantasies of being a young cat boy...


Do some of you even think before you post? I wonder what kind of rock some of you crawled out from under.


And some people can't take an obvious joke. But its okay you didn't have to think it was funny- you just had to realize there was no intent for it to be a serious remark whatsoever.

Also, I would like to note that this has been the first information revealed about this game to date, so theres no guarntee they're wont be a male mithra yet. Just like theres no guarntee there wont be a blackmage class. Usually developers dont spill all the new stuff at the beginning or else they wont have a way to build hype. I think this whole topic of 'disappointment' is too soon. And I find the whole 'gender' thing silly. Why can't you play a girl mithra? Is there something wrong with being a girl? its like people who don't want to play san andreas 'cuz i gotta be a black guy' or how about this FFXI should have customization so you can be what ever you want. There should be asian mithras, black mithras, trans mithras, while were at it lets have...ALIEN mithras... I find it almost offending that theirs an entire post dedicated 'I dont want to be this ***, cuz it means giving up my manliness'...seriously...

Let be hypothetical here, maybe, just maybe your going to be stuck with the choice of only being a cat girl...and just maybe when you play mario, your going to be stuck playing an italian pumber thats male...I see..its only a *** difference, get over it. Lets be worried about the GAMEPLAY.
#75 Aug 07 2009 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
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zuogehaomeng wrote:
EndlessJourney wrote:
zuogehaomeng wrote:
Ah adolescent boys and their fantasies of being a young cat boy...


Do some of you even think before you post? I wonder what kind of rock some of you crawled out from under.


And some people can't take an obvious joke. But its okay you didn't have to think it was funny- you just had to realize there was no intent for it to be a serious remark whatsoever.


I didn't find your joke very funny, sorry.

Quote:
Also, I would like to note that this has been the first information revealed about this game to date, so theres no guarntee they're wont be a male mithra yet. Just like theres no guarntee there wont be a blackmage class. Usually developers dont spill all the new stuff at the beginning or else they wont have a way to build hype.


This is still possible, but usually they will put in "place holders" or "coming soon" or shaded out pictures of things like a new race if they plan on announcing it at a later date. NOW, don't get me wrong, I don't think it's impossible, in fact I do agree it's very possible they still might add them. They might even see the uproar and see how much people want them and decide to add them, who knows? I've not given up yet personally, but the common sense of the matter is why everyone is in such a bad mood about it right now.


Quote:
Why can't you play a girl mithra? Is there something wrong with being a girl?


I can, and if they don't add Male Mithra, I will be more than happy to play as the Female Version, I think they look smashing anyways. It's more about just being able to "relate" to your avatar a bit. That's why people don't want gender exclusion.

Quote:
its like people who don't want to play san andreas 'cuz i gotta be a black guy' or how about this FFXI should have customization so you can be what ever you want. There should be asian mithras, black mithras, trans mithras, while were at it lets have...ALIEN mithras... I find it almost offending that theirs an entire post dedicated 'I dont want to be this ***, cuz it means giving up my manliness'...seriously...


I think there's a big difference between wanting to play a Alien Mithra and a Male Mithra. One thing that's funny though, is Square Enix admitted you would be able to change skin tone and other features. So you very well may be able to be a black or asian mithra. More diversity is what the player base asked for, and on that note Square Enix is conforming to it and giving us what we wanted. Funny you should bring that up.

Edited, Aug 7th 2009 7:02pm by EndlessJourney
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#76 Aug 07 2009 at 6:13 PM Rating: Good
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EndlessJourney wrote:
zuogehaomeng wrote:
EndlessJourney wrote:
zuogehaomeng wrote:
Ah adolescent boys and their fantasies of being a young cat boy...


Do some of you even think before you post? I wonder what kind of rock some of you crawled out from under.


And some people can't take an obvious joke. But its okay you didn't have to think it was funny- you just had to realize there was no intent for it to be a serious remark whatsoever.


I didn't find your joke very funny, sorry.

Quote:
Also, I would like to note that this has been the first information revealed about this game to date, so theres no guarntee they're wont be a male mithra yet. Just like theres no guarntee there wont be a blackmage class. Usually developers dont spill all the new stuff at the beginning or else they wont have a way to build hype.


This is still possible, but usually they will put in "place holders" or "coming soon" or shaded out pictures of things like a new race if they plan on announcing it at a later date. NOW, don't get me wrong, I don't think it's impossible, in fact I do agree it's very possible they still might add them. They might even see the uproar and see how much people want them and decide to add them, who knows? I've not given up yet personally, but the common sense of the matter is why everyone is in such a bad mood about it right now.


Quote:
Why can't you play a girl mithra? Is there something wrong with being a girl?


I can, and if they don't add Male Mithra, I will be more than happy to play as the Female Version, I think they look smashing anyways. It's more about just being able to "relate" to your avatar a bit. That's why people don't want gender exclusion.

Quote:
its like people who don't want to play san andreas 'cuz i gotta be a black guy' or how about this FFXI should have customization so you can be what ever you want. There should be asian mithras, black mithras, trans mithras, while were at it lets have...ALIEN mithras... I find it almost offending that theirs an entire post dedicated 'I dont want to be this ***, cuz it means giving up my manliness'...seriously...


I think there's a big difference between wanting to play a Alien Mithra and a Male Mithra. One thing that's funny though, is Square Enix admitted you would be able to change skin tone and other features. So you very well may be able to be a black or asian mithra. More diversity is what the player base asked for, and on that note Square Enix is conforming to it and giving us what we wanted. Funny you should bring that up.

Edited, Aug 7th 2009 7:02pm by EndlessJourney


Good job, I like your replies here. Except the part you dont like my joke, thats too bad, but i have dark humor anyways.

Though im honestly skeptical about skin tone though. I mean it doesnt do any good if you cant match physical characteristics with skintones.

Im all for customization i just hope its a little more than 'you can make your character look tan!' - we'll see!

I'm all for the customization, I just dont think it will make or break the game. And honestly I think it will hurt it if they don't go 'all the way' with it. Theres nothing more frustrating then a game that claims to have good customization only to find that you can't even choose from basic races. (Or, sometimes they like to include races and leave an obvious big one out, feels degrading at that point). If they dont do it right then I dont even want a huge customization feature.

#77 Aug 07 2009 at 6:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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As for the female galkas, I can't imagine any women that have characters would want to make themselves look like a big female galka, nor would a guy unless it was a mule character. Therefore, I think I am standing by my male galka only thinking.


Oddly enough, when i play horde side on WoW most of the girls i know of play female tauren.

Must be the electric slide dance (or whatever it is) i guess...



Anyway, i think it is rather disappointing to see them hold to the same models as ffxi. Sure, there are some differences, but lets be honest... anyone who has played ffxi did not see originality in the new races rather they looked at them as slight modifications of existing ones. That alone tells you worlds.

So yeah, I am for male mithra... er Miqo`te or w/e. There is no reason to not put in something that is a cosmetic change (since i do not think males / females have any statistical difference in terms of ability) and does not go against any lore presented (that i know of at the time of this post).
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#78 Aug 07 2009 at 7:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Hopefully SE is looking at this, or is there away we can get this presented to SE? I think Americans, Japanese , and European players that want this change need to come together and make a massive statement/ Petition.
#79 Aug 07 2009 at 7:54 PM Rating: Good
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Honestly, I think you lose a lot of the mystique that comes with a female-only race, like the Mithra, Miqo'te or Viera, if you bring out the men. It may not be very PC of me, but I loved the sort of exploitation charm of a whole race of women taking charge, becoming warriors and exploring the world, while their men are hidden, mysterious, and presumably weaker. Add the weird, somewhat inappropriate animal sexuality, and it makes it even campier and more fun (seriously, a race of bunny women? One's mind wanders either to thoughts of Playboy bunnies, or of rabbits and their propensity for ******** like mad). As for the *** of the player, I think a lot of guys might have been drawn to playing Mithra for precisely these reasons. If they could choose to play Mithra men, it might throw that whole allure out the window. On the other hand, I could see the appeal of playing a less-dominant, more "feminine" (compared to the stand-up women) male Mithra, maybe as a thief, a mage, or a puppetmaster.

When FFXI finally brought out a male Mithra NPC, it was all the cooler for the fact that it was so unheard of. When something's rare like that, you treasure it more. I can see why SE would want to keep this traditional racial archetype for the Miqo'te.
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#80 Aug 07 2009 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
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If there's enough customisation available to make them look relatively androgynous, that's good enough for me.
#81 Aug 07 2009 at 8:16 PM Rating: Decent
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^Um... yeah...

Basically, you don't care about the massive number of players that want to play as a male Miqo'te because female only provides you with a sense of allure? No, sorry that I can't relate to that. I look out for the best interests of the player base, and one guy who gets his jollies from femdom doesn't exactly stand up to tens of thousands of players who want something as fundamental as a playable race.

i.e., does it not occur to you that it might be a little selfish that you don't want to sacrifice such a small thing for yourself to bring a lot of joy to thousands of people? Maybe you're ok with being selfish because it's just a game. That's entirely your prerogative. I wouldn't want to play with you, though.

Is it too late to point out that in a social game like an MMO, it benefits you when other people are happy?

Quote:
It's peoples fault for getting their hopes up to high. And then getting mad when they didn't get what they wanted.


lol'd so hard. We're customers. What, do your mommy and daddy pay for your subscription fees? Have you never learned the value of a dollar?

When customers are going to pay a business to provide them with a service, they typically get upset when they aren't given what they wanted. And you can say, "Then just don't play it," but that's such a naive sentiment. SE is making this game for us, even those of us who want male Mithra (which, by the way, people have wanted badly since before FFXI was even out). They want us to buy it. And we want to buy it, too. But we want certain features, and if they don't pony up, it's not creative license-- it's stupid business.

Yielding to your player base is the price you pay for having intellectual rights as a business. We can't go anywhere else for a Final Fantasy title-- SE has the monopoly on it. So if they don't give us what we ask for, **** straight we're going to ***** at them so they know the reason that they're losing customers.


But I'm still pretty confident that SE will give us male Miqo'te. As many poor decisions as they've made these last several years, I just can't believe that they're THAT stupid.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#82 Aug 07 2009 at 8:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
^Um... yeah...

Basically, you don't care about the massive number of players that want to play as a male Miqo'te because female only provides you with a sense of allure? No, sorry that I can't relate to that. I look out for the best interests of the player base, and one guy who gets his jollies from femdom doesn't exactly stand up to tens of thousands of players who want something as fundamental as a playable race.

i.e., does it not occur to you that it might be a little selfish that you don't want to sacrifice such a small thing for yourself to bring a lot of joy to thousands of people? Maybe you're ok with being selfish because it's just a game. That's entirely your prerogative. I wouldn't want to play with you, though.

Is it too late to point out that in a social game like an MMO, it benefits you when other people are happy?


Woah, woah, woah. I didn't say I don't care about people who want male Miqo'te -- I wouldn't mind at all if SE added them. I might even play one! All I mean is that I can understand the company's reasoning.

You guys sure are fighting mad about this!

But I can also understand the reasoning of people who say they wouldn't play this game if SE doesn't give them the character type they'd like to play. People get very personally invested in MMOs, and expressing the persona you feel the need to express might be the most powerful part of the genre. However, hopefully a lot of people are flexible and would still be able to enjoy the game even if they can't find their ideal character image. After all, not every player's desire can be perfectly catered to.
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#83 Aug 07 2009 at 8:44 PM Rating: Good
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Does this look like a male Miqo'te to anyone else?

http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/RuamFFXI-FFXIV/malemithra.jpg
#84 Aug 07 2009 at 8:48 PM Rating: Good
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Woah, woah, woah. I didn't say I don't care about people who want male Miqo'te -- I wouldn't mind at all if SE added them. I might even play one! All I mean is that I can understand the company's reasoning.

You guys sure are fighting mad about this!

But I can also understand the reasoning of people who say they wouldn't play this game if SE doesn't give them the character type they'd like to play. People get very personally invested in MMOs, and expressing the persona you feel the need to express might be the most powerful part of the genre. However, hopefully a lot of people are flexible and would still be able to enjoy the game even if they can't find their ideal character image. After all, not every player's desire can be perfectly catered to.


Nah, I'm sorry. I looked back over your post after I replied and realized that I had probably been a little too aggressive, but I was too lazy to edit it and didn't even know if you'd actually read it.

I wasn't mad, but I misinterpreted your stance, so I came off pretty crass. Apologies.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#85 Aug 07 2009 at 8:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
Nah, I'm sorry. I looked back over your post after I replied and realized that I had probably been a little too aggressive, but I was too lazy to edit it and didn't even know if you'd actually read it.

I wasn't mad, but I misinterpreted your stance, so I came off pretty crass. Apologies.


No worries. These forum conversations tend to get a little heated.
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#86 Aug 07 2009 at 8:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Dizmo wrote:
If there's enough customisation available to make them look relatively androgynous, that's good enough for me.


Actually, I think this would be a really good idea. Make it a little ambiguous.
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#87 Aug 07 2009 at 11:20 PM Rating: Good
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The one major thing bothering me about this whole situation is that the arguments against having the male Miqo'te are mostly.. well, pretty weak and in many cases outright insulting. I have yet to see a really compelling reason against having the male counterpart...

Now, I realize when discussing the possibility of an entirely new race (something I would very honestly love to see), I understand that there are a lot of things that would need to be addressed beforehand... visual design, stat balancing, and history being the most obvious of course. So you can stand to argue (weakly) that a developer may be wary of introducing a brand new species into an already established cast of races. Maybe the new one won't mesh well with the others, or maybe the players won't like the design, maybe they're having some kind of creativity block(doubtful).... I don't know, it could many things. (Though if SE ends up not adding a new race, I think it's just them being lazy :/..)

But when we are faced with the issue of the male Miqo'te, you drop practically all the speed bumps of introducing a new playable race without losing any of the excitement/anticipation/squee-fits that a new race would illicit. Win/win right?

Also... Allure of an all female race you say? I personally think this is a little off.. Don't get me wrong! I understand the concept completely. The thing is.. an all female race kind of loses it's glamor when I know that there's a very good possibility that %80 of the alluring females I see are likely played by dudes... What exactly is the harm in keeping the back story matriarchal and allowing the male gender to be playable? The race as a whole can still be feminine and alluring without losing any of its charisma if the presentation is done correctly.

In any case. It really bothers me that SE is pushing the premise of character development as one of the primary focuses of FFXIV, yet there is the possibility that they aren't going to add a customization option as basic as gender. If you identify with the feline-type personality, why should you be forced to sacrifice the possibility of a more masculine avatar?

.. Ok, the idea of a single gender race is novel.. but it's been done- in FFXI. And quite obviously it has lost the novelty. Personally I think it feels more like the FFXI community just tolerated the single-genderness of the Mithra since there really wasn't any other option. Why on earth, as a game company, would you ever want a customer to simply TOLERATE a gameplay mechanic when you have the ability and glaringly perfect opportunity to change it? It's baffling to me.

I understand I don't speak for everyone, but I put a lot of value into being able to relate to the character I play. When I played XI, I had a hard time feeling a real attachment to my Hume Female #2 model (black hair, audacious I know <_<).. and of course the fact that I saw myself every I went. I know that not everyone feels this way, and some will happily play whatever amalgamation of polygons they spew out at character creation... but for the individuals who do find it important to identify with their avatars, being denied a customization option for no reason will be extremely frustrating. And before someone brings it up, it is not shallow to want to personify yourself a specific way. What's shallow is putting someone down for expressing a desire to do so. I don't understand why it's such a big deal that I want the character model that I'm going to be seeing on screen for hours upon days upon weeks to be visually pleasing and representative of the aesthetics that I prefer.

I personally will not be playing a male anything when XIV is released because I'm female and prefer playing female characters, but I will be deeply disappointed with SE if they decide not to allow male Miqo'te when the game comes out. I am actually hoping to play as a Miqo'te myself but I may not if they don't have both genders available. Why? Because I feel the race would lose some of the femininity if there's no male counterpart, and I'm not exactly sure how to explain my sentiments on this without making a mess of it... But again, this is just a personal opinion. *cough*

*goes back to forum-lurking now*
#88 Aug 07 2009 at 11:43 PM Rating: Decent
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dewn wrote:
The one major thing bothering me about this whole situation is that the arguments against having the male Miqo'te are mostly.. well, pretty weak and in many cases outright insulting. I have yet to see a really compelling reason against having the male counterpart...

Now, I realize when discussing the possibility of an entirely new race (something I would very honestly love to see), I understand that there are a lot of things that would need to be addressed beforehand... visual design, stat balancing, and history being the most obvious of course. So you can stand to argue (weakly) that a developer may be wary of introducing a brand new species into an already established cast of races. Maybe the new one won't mesh well with the others, or maybe the players won't like the design, maybe they're having some kind of creativity block(doubtful).... I don't know, it could many things. (Though if SE ends up not adding a new race, I think it's just them being lazy :/..)

But when we are faced with the issue of the male Miqo'te, you drop practically all the speed bumps of introducing a new playable race without losing any of the excitement/anticipation/squee-fits that a new race would illicit. Win/win right?

Also... Allure of an all female race you say? I personally think this is a little off.. Don't get me wrong! I understand the concept completely. The thing is.. an all female race kind of loses it's glamor when I know that there's a very good possibility that %80 of the alluring females I see are likely played by dudes... What exactly is the harm in keeping the back story matriarchal and allowing the male gender to be playable? The race as a whole can still be feminine and alluring without losing any of its charisma if the presentation is done correctly.

In any case. It really bothers me that SE is pushing the premise of character development as one of the primary focuses of FFXIV, yet there is the possibility that they aren't going to add a customization option as basic as gender. If you identify with the feline-type personality, why should you be forced to sacrifice the possibility of a more masculine avatar?

.. Ok, the idea of a single gender race is novel.. but it's been done- in FFXI. And quite obviously it has lost the novelty. Personally I think it feels more like the FFXI community just tolerated the single-genderness of the Mithra since there really wasn't any other option. Why on earth, as a game company, would you ever want a customer to simply TOLERATE a gameplay mechanic when you have the ability and glaringly perfect opportunity to change it? It's baffling to me.

I understand I don't speak for everyone, but I put a lot of value into being able to relate to the character I play. When I played XI, I had a hard time feeling a real attachment to my Hume Female #2 model (black hair, audacious I know <_<).. and of course the fact that I saw myself every I went. I know that not everyone feels this way, and some will happily play whatever amalgamation of polygons they spew out at character creation... but for the individuals who do find it important to identify with their avatars, being denied a customization option for no reason will be extremely frustrating. And before someone brings it up, it is not shallow to want to personify yourself a specific way. What's shallow is putting someone down for expressing a desire to do so. I don't understand why it's such a big deal that I want the character model that I'm going to be seeing on screen for hours upon days upon weeks to be visually pleasing and representative of the aesthetics that I prefer.

I personally will not be playing a male anything when XIV is released because I'm female and prefer playing female characters, but I will be deeply disappointed with SE if they decide not to allow male Miqo'te when the game comes out. I am actually hoping to play as a Miqo'te myself but I may not if they don't have both genders available. Why? Because I feel the race would lose some of the femininity if there's no male counterpart, and I'm not exactly sure how to explain my sentiments on this without making a mess of it... But again, this is just a personal opinion. *cough*

*goes back to forum-lurking now*


Very well written and modest expression of the general opinion on this matter.

Thank you for that.

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 12:44am by EndlessJourney
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#89 Aug 08 2009 at 12:22 AM Rating: Decent
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I cannot vote until I really see the pic of a male mithra.

can anyone make one ? Never heard of a cat man only a cat woman.



Edited, Aug 8th 2009 1:24am by Skmm
#90 Aug 08 2009 at 12:56 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Basically, you don't care about the massive number of players that want to play as a male Miqo'te
Massive?
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#91 Aug 08 2009 at 1:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Yes, massive. Though I'm interested to hear your explanation as to why another adjective might be appropriate.

To clarify, we are talking about tens of thousands of people within a fanbase of a few hundred thousand players.

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 2:47am by Kachi
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#92 Aug 08 2009 at 2:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
To clarify, we are talking about tens of thousands of people within a fanbase of a few hundred thousand players.
Could you link me to the source of your numbers, then? The tens of thousands of people that want a cat boy.
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#93 Aug 08 2009 at 2:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Go back a page, for starters? 26% of 140ish respondents said that they wanted to be able to play it. Even very generously factoring in a polling bias that takes that down to a third of that many players, and you're still looking at tens of thousands. At the very least you're looking at as many Galka as you had in FFXI, and probably significantly more. Edit for reference: There are roughly about 30,000 Galkan subscribers.

You've been around for a while, right, so how can this possibly be a surprise to you? People have been whining for male Mithra since before day 1. It didn't start to die down until SE outright said that they weren't going to do any new races ever (PS2 limitations). I mean, you really shouldn't even need to see any numbers to be able to put it together, because it's just that obvious.


Edited, Aug 8th 2009 3:43am by Kachi
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#94 Aug 08 2009 at 2:48 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Kachi wrote:
To clarify, we are talking about tens of thousands of people within a fanbase of a few hundred thousand players.
Could you link me to the source of your numbers, then? The tens of thousands of people that want a cat boy.


Are you saying you deny the masses of people, Japanese and English speaking alike, who have been wanting this feature, and this type of character for years? Do you not see how popular furries have become (lord knows I am not one), do you see how popular the whole metro sexual style is now days, which would fit well into a agile Miqo'Te like FFXI has already proven with Lehko?

Browse the FFXIV forums here, you'll have to go many pages back, and you'll see how many people in these forums alone support and advocate the idea. Use some common sense on the matter, talk to people in game, do research on various forums. Most people operate under these already known principles and common knowledge. We're not going to do your homework for you.

Although it's quite obvious you are just looking for an argument.

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 4:12am by EndlessJourney
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#95 Aug 08 2009 at 3:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Go back a page, for starters? 26% of 140ish respondents said that they wanted to be able to play it. Even very generously factoring in a polling bias that takes that down to a third of that many players, and you're still looking at tens of thousands.

Internet polls never gives proper distribution of opinions - due to bias of people who participate in them.
Polls about minor things (such as male mithra) even less creditable as most people (even those who tends to read forums/participate in polls) that doesn't care about male mithra - will not participate in poll, leaving only those who really do care about subject to participate in poll.
If number of respondents in poll would be "in number of thousands" - it probably will have more creditability, but not 140 answers of people of unknown origin.

Besides, you have 14% of those who don't want to see male mithra - how to deal with them? Both are beeing minor to major part who don't care/will not play male mithra.

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 7:18am by Phess
#96 Aug 08 2009 at 3:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Phess wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Go back a page, for starters? 26% of 140ish respondents said that they wanted to be able to play it. Even very generously factoring in a polling bias that takes that down to a third of that many players, and you're still looking at tens of thousands.

Internet polls never gives proper distribution of opinions - due to bias of people who participate in them.
Polls about minor things (such as male mithra) even less creditable as most people (even those who tends to read forums/participate in polls) that doesn't care about male mithra - will not participate in poll, leaving only those who really do care about subject to participate in poll.
If number of respondents in poll would be "in number of thousands" - it probably will have more creditability, but not 140 answers of people of unknown origin.

Besides, you have 14% of those who don't want to see male mithra - how to deal with them? Both are beeing minor to major part who don't care/will not play male mithra.


57% actually, want to see male mithra. 26% want to actually play as it, 14% simply said "No". These are people who took a poll. 147 people. Of those 147 people are people with differing opinions believe it or not, no matter how you want to argue the case. And once again, this isn't tapping into the Japanese consumer base.

Have you ever been to Japan? You should see how obsessed both male and females alike in Japan are with the whole "Kawaii Cat Person" thing, and how popular smaller, more feminine physiques are, as well as how widespread metrosexuality is there.

This is also a very controversial forum, where a lot of people will argue and advocate AGAINST things just for arguments sake. So they'll vote no just to go against the consensus. On that same note, do you know how many people who WOULD love Male Mithra will not voice their opinions on this poll, or in this thread? I know many of them in FFXI personally. I've not met anyone in FFXI who's said they were against it, personally. I'm not trying to lie to you, and you don't have to take my word for it, just try asking around in a neutral way some time.

But in the end of this poll, it's 57% Vs. 14%. I highly doubt those 14% would not play FFXIV if they introduced Male Mithra, but of the other 57% that are let down, and feel like FFXIV is becoming FFXI 2.0, the number of lost customers is presumably a lot larger.

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 4:35am by EndlessJourney
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#97 Aug 08 2009 at 4:04 AM Rating: Decent
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48,711 posts
EndlessJourney wrote:
We're not going to do your homework for you.
Okay, by what little information I've been given by Kachi, 26% of the 140ish people want cat boys. That is 36 people. That also means 104 people either don't want or don't care about cat boys. If you want to inflate the numbers to say they, somehow, represent every gamer in existence, or even just the FFXI population, that is -- let's say 500,000 unique players for FFXI. That is 130,000 people that might want cat boys. Sure, it looks big, but put it next to the 370,000 people that don't, and it stops looking massive.

A decent sized vocal group that wants it? Sure, that's obvious. A massive amount of players? No, that is just faulty language.
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George Carlin wrote:
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#98 Aug 08 2009 at 4:12 AM Rating: Decent
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1,822 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
EndlessJourney wrote:
We're not going to do your homework for you.
Okay, by what little information I've been given by Kachi, 26% of the 140ish people want cat boys. That is 36 people. That also means 104 people either don't want or don't care about cat boys. If you want to inflate the numbers to say they, somehow, represent every gamer in existence, or even just the FFXI population, that is -- let's say 500,000 unique players for FFXI. That is 130,000 people that might want cat boys. Sure, it looks big, but put it next to the 370,000 people that don't, and it stops looking massive.

A decent sized vocal group that wants it? Sure, that's obvious. A massive amount of players? No, that is just faulty language.


You think in business terms 130,000 out of 500,000 isn't a massive number? Ignorance. You also assume and post under the presumption that the rest DON'T want Male Mithra. Again, why are you using the number 26%? Forget what who said, go to the first page, it says "Do you want Male Mithra" under that is "Yes, and I want to play it" as well as "Yes, but I don't see myself playing one" both are AFFIRMATIVE ANSWERS, which accounts to 57% who DIRECTLY want something.

As I said, that's an even higher percentage. And it's not accounting for the Japanese community that is admittedly wanting it even worse than the english speaking community. There were 14% that simply said "No", and it didn't even clearly say "Are you AGAINST the idea". This isn't even accounting for the other large majority who doesn't really care either way.

Do you not see the logic here?

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 5:13am by EndlessJourney
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#99 Aug 08 2009 at 4:52 AM Rating: Decent
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The only thing I see is a vocal minority pretending a small group of people on a fansite think their opinion actually represents the entire community. Your "evidence" / poll doesn't even involve people on Allakhazam that didn't bother to vote. Or the people that don't read Allakhazam. It isn't "26% of the playerbase wants it." It is "26% of the Allakhazam posters who know where =268 is and voted want it." What, they don't count? They might as well be added to the "don't care" lot. There is a massive number of people that don't care (myself included) either way.

You're not the voices of the people. Stop over inflating the numbers, it makes you look foolish. "A decent group of people want Cat Boys." That works. Massive amount? No, not even close.

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 8:53am by lolgaxe
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#100 Aug 08 2009 at 5:14 AM Rating: Decent
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1,822 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
The only thing I see is a vocal minority pretending a small group of people on a fansite think their opinion actually represents the entire community. Your "evidence" / poll doesn't even involve people on Allakhazam that didn't bother to vote. Or the people that don't read Allakhazam. It isn't "26% of the playerbase wants it." It is "26% of the Allakhazam posters who know where =268 is and voted want it." What, they don't count? They might as well be added to the "don't care" lot. There is a massive number of people that don't care (myself included) either way.

You're not the voices of the people. Stop over inflating the numbers, it makes you look foolish. "A decent group of people want Cat Boys." That works. Massive amount? No, not even close.


I'm glad that's all you see, I just proved my point. And guess what hot shot, our opinion DOES represent the community, because guess what, that's what we are. Our "evidence" is hard evidence, which you were supporting till you started losing this argument. And you're right, it doesn't include the people who didn't bother to vote. Do you think there's some huge group of people who don't want the feature added who are not voting? 150 consumers voted, people with differing opinions. But out of that 150 57% of them wanted to see a feature added, 14% simply said they didn't want to see it, again not even advocating against it. and the other 34% didn't care either way.

I guess if you look at it that way, then at the very least those people care enough TO VOTE and make their case, they obviously want it bad enough. If those who are against it do not care enough TO VOTE against it, then obviously they do not feel as strongly about it, and it will effect them less. Are you going to try to argue that as well? That the people who dislike it are some how hiding in the shadows or don't know how to find this site, or this poll?

Let me do the math for you though. If you add Male Mithra, you will be pleasing roughly 57% of the people. If you don't do so, you will be upsetting that same 57%. The 34% Don't care either way, so logic would say if they don't care, go ahead and make the ones who want it happy. More or less, it's 57% vs. 14%. Maybe I can post this a few dozen more times till you finally understand it.

I know how you love posting aggressive and condescending remarks to people simply for the sake of argument a lot of times, so let me put it like this. If something is going to make a lot of people really happy, to be able to relate to a character that suits their needs, and you are so damned selfish that you think for whatever reason you are entitled to keep that from them because you want things to remain exactly how you see fit even though it doesn't effect you, then you are the type of person who has ruined this world with their greed and selfishness. It disgusts me to no end.

lolgaxe wrote:
You're not the voices of the people. Stop over inflating the numbers, it makes you look foolish.


When you come down off of that high horse Mr. High-and-Mighty, I might address you again. The only one looking foolish with such asinine, and uncalled for statements is you. The posters here ARE the voice of the people. And our opinion DOES matter, whether you like it or not.

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 6:19am by EndlessJourney
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#101 Aug 08 2009 at 5:35 AM Rating: Good
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48,711 posts
EndlessJourney wrote:
If you add Male Mithra, you will be pleasing roughly 57% of the people.
Does your poll represent the Japanese voice? How about the European that doesn't speak English? How about the BG and KI crowds? You must understand that small sample sizes don't prove your case. In a context one might understand, if I were to parse three swings, and hit twice, that doesn't mean my accuracy is 66% in a three hour party. Curing one person of the cold doesn't mean your vaccine is the cure for the common cold.

You want Cat Boys, I get that. You have a small group of Allakhazamers (Half of 150ish out of 1.5m Users is small, no matter what) that agree with you, I get that, but what you guys are refusing to see is that it is still just a small sample size. "Massive" is the incorrect term to use.

Its hardly condescending, they're just numerical facts. Not that any of it matters; Even if it were 100% of 100% of all gamers in the world, anyone that even knows a thing about Square understands they don't care what our opinion on the matter is. We wanted a new online game; we got almost a carbon copy. The races are identical, and even the starting cities are remarkably similar. So really, this poll and throat scarring ranting won't change that.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
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