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Lack of male Miqo'teFollow

#102 Aug 08 2009 at 5:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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I used to not care either way. But now if it means I never have to see another "QQ no male mithra" thread then I'm all for it.
#103 Aug 08 2009 at 5:57 AM Rating: Good
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I dont get why you're ignoring all the guys who rolled manthra in FFXI, in addition to the fact that we all know how much the japanese (also known as SE's favorites) love their furries. I personally wouldn't roll one and I don't actually understand the point of someone saying they DONT want them in the game, I mean, how does it affect them?

Anyway, I think we all know that despite there isn't concrete evidence readily available for this, a lot of people have wanted male mithra in the game for a long time, but feel free to dismiss it as a null point in your argument.
#104 Aug 08 2009 at 6:15 AM Rating: Decent
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EndlessJourney wrote:
57% actually, want to see male mithra. 26% want to actually play as it, 14% simply said "No". These are people who took a poll. 147 people. Of those 147 people are people with differing opinions believe it or not, no matter how you want to argue the case. And once again, this isn't tapping into the Japanese consumer base.

I prefer you not to adjust numbers as you please.
Only 26% wants male mithra as a playable race for themselves.
Other 30% just like to see without playing it - there are no reason to satisfy their tastes as it as a common general wish without any consequencies than normally should not be granted. It's like "i would like to see goblins as playable race, but will not play it" - yes, it is understandable, but it is nowhere a reason to push race in game.

EndlessJourney wrote:
Have you ever been to Japan? You should see how obsessed both male and females alike in Japan are with the whole "Kawaii Cat Person" thing, and how popular smaller, more feminine physiques are, as well as how widespread metrosexuality is there.

If you so obsessed with catlike character - play female mithra (I do).
I have no complex, and think there should be none, about male playing female character as well as female playing male character.

Personally, i think that male cat-person is much less "kawaii" that female ones, so i think that they will worsen overall cute look of the race (and voted No)
#105 Aug 08 2009 at 6:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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I was hoping for a male Miqo'te and still do, I would play as one but it is ok if they don't add them,
I will still play the game. But I am going to be a little disappointed if there arn't at least one new race. Seems a little to easy just to take the same races from FFXI.

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 10:48am by CWinther
#106 Aug 08 2009 at 7:13 AM Rating: Default
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I think a lot of the current mithra characters just rolled that because of the high dex and agi.

and to the people saying they won't play the game because of no male mithra: wtf?

you will miss out on a really good looking (and because its SE) very addictive game just because of your avatar?

go ahead, I don't think SE cares that much about this minority (cause its a minority) because they will get a lot more customers either way.

vote with your money, don't play the game. I sure as **** you won't be missed by SE. not one bit
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#107 Aug 08 2009 at 7:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Fast Forward 5 years from now

/sea all lalafell 20
/sea all elezen 20
/sea all Female Miqo-te 20
/sea all Male "Galka" 20
---bleah blah

/sea all "insert new race name (gria) 1500
/sea all Manthra 1500
/sea all Girlka 1500

maybe its better not to have new races/sexes imagine running around and seeing the :new race: cuz thats what everyone wanted to do.. to try something different. just a thought.
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#108 Aug 08 2009 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
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I think you need to take a look at the FFXI forum, Ashikenshin.
There's some genuinely uncomfortable things going down right now.

Investing in an MMO is alot of time and money, I don't think it's strange people want some kind of reassurance from the company that customer service will be better this time around.

What does it say about a company what ignores an easy to implement demand of their core demographic just after a PR fiasco?
Bad, bad, things.


Personally, I can't understand why anyone would be digging their heels into the sand about this. Only thing I could possibly imagine is that some male gamers are squeamish about having Shonen Boys around. With the years of developer boob fascination I had to put up with, I cannot tell you how depressed that thought makes me feel.

Feel free to chime in with a reason that actually has some substance.
#109 Aug 08 2009 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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dewn wrote:
The thing is.. an all female race kind of loses it's glamor when I know that there's a very good possibility that %80 of the alluring females I see are likely played by dudes...


But on the Internet, you have no idea who is playing who. A female of any race could be played by a male, and vice versa. And what if we had completely gender neutral races, like something robotic? Would it creep you out that male or female players might be playing that?
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#110 Aug 08 2009 at 9:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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go ahead, I don't think SE cares that much about this minority (cause its a minority) because they will get a lot more customers either way.

vote with your money, don't play the game. I sure as **** you won't be missed by SE. not one bit


I would think that paying customers would be missed by a company. Even if it is a minority, cutting your profit potential by a few % is rather huge, especially over the lifespan of a product.

And likewise, it is all well and good to say "oh, i don't think SE cares too much about this minority" when that vocal portion of the community does not include you. Garanteed that over the course of the game every player will have some issue with the game (whether they are vocal or not about it is not garanteed) and how SE handles their issues is key to their game life.
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#111 Aug 08 2009 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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Kokorozashi wrote:
But on the Internet, you have no idea who is playing who. A female of any race could be played by a male, and vice versa. And what if we had completely gender neutral races, like something robotic? Would it creep you out that male or female players might be playing that?



Not at all. Where did I say that I was creeped out or bothered by the fact that guys play female characters or vice versa? It doesn't bother me one iota. I was just trying to express my own perception of what happened with the Mithra... When a masculine personality is forced into a feminine avatar just because there's no other option for a certain stat-set or racial persona.. then over time as you interact with these masculine female characters, the race slowly loses its association with the "alluring" and "feminine" archetype... By the time I stopped playing FFXI, my perception of the Mithran race was that it was one big group of tomboys. Which, again, is totally fine and doesn't bother me at all. It just seems to run counterpoint to the argument of keeping the male out of the race to preserve the female allure. It doesn't work out that way in an MMO setting.

Denying the male option is a cheap way to achieve a "female driven" race when you could better convey the idea through story arcs, histories, and NPC interactions. If the majority of storylines put the male Miqo'te in the bottom of the societal hierarchy, then that is what players will perceive regardless of how many of them are running around adventuring. Who knows, it may further the ideal when you see that the male Miqo'te have to make their living adventuring instead of taking seats in higher positions.

*big shrug* I'm just sayin, arguing that the race will lose something by gaining the second gender option is kind of close-minded. I think it has the potential to add so much more depth to the race if done correctly.
#112 Aug 08 2009 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
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KacesofCaitsith wrote:
I would think that paying customers would be missed by a company. Even if it is a minority, cutting your profit potential by a few % is rather huge, especially over the lifespan of a product.

Adding and maintaining a model for a race also costs money, you know - so it's not exactly a "profit". If minority will be too small, it may be even a loss.

It's a controversal topic that cannot be solved easily just by adding manthras as some people here suggest - because some people wants mithra to stay one-gender playable race - and in both cases there will be unsatisfied people.
#113 Aug 08 2009 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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KacesofCaitsith wrote:
And likewise, it is all well and good to say "oh, i don't think SE cares too much about this minority" when that vocal portion of the community does not include you.
A lot easier to say it when you follow their current online game, or rather their current behavior when dealing with their fanbase.
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#114 Aug 08 2009 at 10:39 AM Rating: Good
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As much as I like the Females, I've always been the type that can only play a game as his ***. I personally would love to see a male version but it won't ruin the game for me. I will admit that only seeing female Miqo'te and male Galka(can't remember the name) does ad an interesting atmosphere because it's not something we are used to in the real world. everything has to be male or female lol
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#115 Aug 08 2009 at 10:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Adding and maintaining a model for a race also costs money, you know - so it's not exactly a "profit". If minority will be too small, it may be even a loss.



That opposite gender of a race is an easy asset to make.

When your switching to something of similar build and stature, you just tweak the existing to meet your needs. Tweak to model to look more masculine, take the existing rig and repaint the weights to the new model, take the existing textures sewing together some places expanding others, start with the same animations already keyed to the rig and change it when it makes the new model clip into itself or new texture stretch. Maybe take the time to imply greater weight, shift the center of gravity to the chest, make sure the limbs are away from the body...ah ha. I'm getting a little too in-depth here, but what I'm trying to get across is that most the work is already done - you just tweak it.

A company of SE's caliber could bang that out in a handful of hours.
Even if they wanted to be cost-ineffective and do the whole thing from scratch, it might even take a day. We're really talking a pittance of effort here.

That's what makes SE not doing it so completely mindboggling.



Edited, Aug 8th 2009 3:00pm by Zemzelette
#116 Aug 08 2009 at 11:38 AM Rating: Decent
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That opposite gender of a race is an easy asset to make.

When your switching to something of similar build and stature, you just tweak the existing to meet your needs. Tweak to model to look more masculine, take the existing rig and repaint the weights to the new model, take the existing textures sewing together some places expanding others, start with the same animations already keyed to the rig and change it when it makes the new model clip into itself or new texture stretch. Maybe take the time to imply greater weight, shift the center of gravity to the chest, make sure the limbs are away from the body...ah ha. I'm getting a little too in-depth here, but what I'm trying to get across is that most the work is already done - you just tweak it.

A company of SE's caliber could bang that out in a handful of hours.
Even if they wanted to be cost-ineffective and do the whole thing from scratch, it might even take a day. We're really talking a pittance of effort here.

That's what makes SE not doing it so completely mindboggling.

Yet also consider the fact that there are a slew of emotes to work out, and, the big one, another set of armor designs to fit it. Look at Hume male and female equipment. Quite a difference in appearance. Even the male Elvann and Hume have differences there, even if it's on the closer side.

However, the point I will agree on is, well, SE is a big company, and even if the team isn't huge (SE is divided into many teams), it's big enough to be able to do all this. Now, while PS2 limitations may have had an impact on adding new races, it was largely because designing the armor for an entire new race so late into the game (and even early on) would be difficult. Tens and tens of new models. They can do it, but it's no simple task.

Some teams get around it by plastering the armor to the characters, so that one-size-fits-all. But, aesthetically, this isn't the post pleasing method, and SE would not go down that route.

I'm pretty confident SE will include male Miqo'te, and perhaps female Roegadyn, and mayhaps even a new race or two alongside. I wouldn't give up yet on the gender issue. On the official website, there is no mention that Miqo'te or Roegadyn is a gender-specific race. Have hope! I just wouldn't expect anything.
#117 Aug 08 2009 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
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dewn wrote:
When a masculine personality is forced into a feminine avatar just because there's no other option for a certain stat-set or racial persona.. then over time as you interact with these masculine female characters, the race slowly loses its association with the "alluring" and "feminine" archetype... By the time I stopped playing FFXI, my perception of the Mithran race was that it was one big group of tomboys. Which, again, is totally fine and doesn't bother me at all. It just seems to run counterpoint to the argument of keeping the male out of the race to preserve the female allure. It doesn't work out that way in an MMO setting.


Actually, you do have a good point here. I've run into plenty of Mithra who seemed obsessed with boobies and insisted on running around naked. On the other hand, even with male Miqo'te you still might get those types playing the females.
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#118 Aug 08 2009 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Zemzelette wrote:
A company of SE's caliber could bang that out in a handful of hours.
Even if they wanted to be cost-ineffective and do the whole thing from scratch, it might even take a day. We're really talking a pittance of effort here.


I'm not a professional in the industry or anything, but surely it's not that simple. SE would do everything from the ground up, starting with backstory and concept art, from which original designs and models would be created. And as someone else mentioned, there would be poses and motion capture to do, too. If they did it in the span of a day, I don't think I'd like to see the results.
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#119 Aug 08 2009 at 11:59 AM Rating: Good
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Kokorozashi wrote:
Zemzelette wrote:
A company of SE's caliber could bang that out in a handful of hours.
Even if they wanted to be cost-ineffective and do the whole thing from scratch, it might even take a day. We're really talking a pittance of effort here.


I'm not a professional in the industry or anything, but surely it's not that simple. SE would do everything from the ground up, starting with backstory and concept art, from which original designs and models would be created. And as someone else mentioned, there would be poses and motion capture to do, too. If they did it in the span of a day, I don't think I'd like to see the results.

As a former .DAT editor for FFXI, I can tell you that it isn't that difficult to edit existing models.

It wouldn't be all that difficult to take the existing Miqo'te models and make them more masculine and edit their motions. Yes, it'd take more than "a handful of hours" but it also wouldn't necessarily be building from scratch.
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#120 Aug 08 2009 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Anyone who doubts that a MASSIVE number of players want male Mithra needs to take a research and statistics class. As someone who's taken a few, I don't have any doubt that the poll indicates that tens of thousands of players would choose to play as male Mithra. Really though, I wouldn't need to see a poll in the first place, because I've actually been paying attention these last several years.

Maybe you saw "massive" and thought "majority"? Look, no race, likely not even Hume, would have a majority in a poll. 30% of FFXI players are Tarutaru... that means 70% don't. So does that mean 70% don't care or are ok with Tarutaru being taken out of the game? I'm sure you could get at least 10% that really wouldn't care if they never saw another creepy munchkin again, or even don't want to. The fact is that it pleases a lot more people than there are bothered by it.

Any time that's the case and the development isn't too taxing, you put it in the game.

The thing a lot of @#%^ing idiots can't seem to put together is that it's ALWAYS going to be a minority in terms of new races. Unless you actually have a race that's so popular that more than half the player base chooses it, in which case you don't exactly have a lot of diversity.

And there is such thing as a large minority. In the business world, 5% is large. What's 5% of a million dollars? Answer: a lot more than it costs to (lol) "maintain" a new model.

Quote:
you will miss out on a really good looking (and because its SE) very addictive game just because of your avatar?


As I've pointed out before, being made by SE in no way guarantees that it will be very addictive or even good. SE has failed an MMO before. Their recent titles have been lackluster. Their response to player feedback in XI has been relatively pitiful.

And true enough, that last part indicates that maybe they don't give a @#%^ about a large minority of players willing to pay them hundreds of thousands of dollars if they simply make a male Miqo'te. Not only existing FFXI playerbase that wants this, and people who are following the production of FFXIV, but the untapped players who are susceptible to being pulled by word of mouth and rave reviews to their share of the market. Yeah, @#%^ them.

I could totally see SE doing that based on their track record, yes. But it's still in no way a defensible position. I guess if you're arguing for SE's track record and want them to keep ******** customers, then keep arguing against male Miqo'te.

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 1:14pm by Kachi

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 1:19pm by Kachi
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#121 Aug 08 2009 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Ruam wrote:
Does this look like a male Miqo'te to anyone else?

http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/RuamFFXI-FFXIV/malemithra.jpg


Tough to say, it could be shadow or chest just above the table.
#122 Aug 08 2009 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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Adding and maintaining a model for a race also costs money, you know - so it's not exactly a "profit". If minority will be too small, it may be even a loss.


Lets say that the minority who want manthras are 1% of the population of ffxi. Assume that ffxi has 500,000 subs. Assume that ffxiv will have a similar lifespan as ffxi (7 years current i think).

That is 5000 players who want this to happen. 13 dollars a month for 7 years is 5,460,000.

This is obviously an inaccurate calculation - we do not know how many want this, we do not know how long the game will last and all that. But it is easy to say that the cost in developing a new gender for an existing race will easily be offset over the life of the product. I mean, lets be honest here, it might take more than a day but it certainly is not going to cost a huge amount of money compared to the life cycle of the product.

It is like i said before - cutting your profit potential by even a % is huge over the lifespan of a product. Unless there are only like 100 people who want this to happen, it is very much worth your time to do.


Quote:
It's a controversal topic that cannot be solved easily just by adding manthras as some people here suggest - because some people wants mithra to stay one-gender playable race - and in both cases there will be unsatisfied people.


Well, lucky for us mithra are a single gender race. Miqo'te however are a "brand" new race with no lore or reason to not have a dual gender society.


Edit:

I think the reason i am pulling for this is because i was so disapointed to see the exact same races in this new mmo. Like i said before, when i saw them i did not see original, i saw modified existing models. And that is so very disapointing with a new game like this.

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 6:03pm by KacesofCaitsith
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#123 Aug 08 2009 at 3:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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The cost and effort it would require to make a male mithra or female galka is a moot point, since if the director of the project doesn't like the idea and doesn't want it to be a part of the story/game then it's not going to be there

The biggest argument in favor of making this change would be that SE is a company, and doesn't want to lose customers but I sincerely hope they do not buckle for that reason alone. I hope they add male mithra, but more than that I hope they don't bend over backwards and try and fit in things they never wanted in the game just because the players tell them to.

FFI wasn't made to be popular, hironobu sakaguchi (i think is the spelling?) made it because he wanted to make it, thats part of what made it so popular versus the carbon copies of the day like mario... That said I would just as soon have a completely new set of races, but since they didn't do that I hope they continue to be creative in their own way (hopefully with creative races) instead of buckling to pressure...

I know I repeated a lot of my points but... meh
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#124 Aug 08 2009 at 4:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd like a Male variant to the Miqo'te, but after playing a Mithra in FFXI, I'd have no problem playing as a Female again.

Generalized Human/Elf variants don't really appeal to me all that well, and I tend to not really enjoy playing as a Giant (Galka/Troll/Ogre variants) or a Stumpy (Tarutaru/Dwarf/Halfling/Gnome variants).

That being said, Bangaa or Moogles would be quite nice to play as in this game.
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#125 Aug 08 2009 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
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sorry double post because of Firefox error.

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 8:28pm by Averrinicus
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#126 Aug 08 2009 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
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That being said, Bangaa or Moogles would be quite nice to play as in this game.


I wouldn't mind that at all I would play as both lol. it would be nice to get away from my usual elvaan, I might actualy play as a Miqo'te this time around male or no male so I'm a good.
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#127 Aug 08 2009 at 4:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Generalized Human/Elf variants don't really appeal to me all that well, and I tend to not really enjoy playing as a Giant (Galka/Troll/Ogre variants) or a Stumpy (Tarutaru/Dwarf/Halfling/Gnome variants).


If your gonna say that those are all generic variants then wouldn't mithra fall into the furry (centaur/halfbreen variants)? mithra are unique, yes, but xi's own flavor of the "elf variant" was just as unique, I can't think of a single other game where elves are physical powerhouses. Hume is the only race that isn't a unique one and thats mostly because it's whole point is to be.. what's the word... a point of reference? human races are redundant for comforts sake.

Putting bangaa in here would feel more cheap than copying all of xi's races to me :/ maybe a stylized reworking of them? the bangaa's from ivalice have always felt childish to me, which makes sense since their game of origin was aimed at a lower age group... but if they just take the name and the general discription of "lizard men race" and work from scratch from there, I'm sure it would work out alright... maybe
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#128 Aug 08 2009 at 5:32 PM Rating: Good
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Zuken wrote:
If your gonna say that those are all generic variants then wouldn't mithra fall into the furry (centaur/halfbreen variants)? mithra are unique, yes, but xi's own flavor of the "elf variant" was just as unique, I can't think of a single other game where elves are physical powerhouses. Hume is the only race that isn't a unique one and thats mostly because it's whole point is to be.. what's the word... a point of reference? human races are redundant for comforts sake.


While I agree with the classification, I wouldn't put them in the same league as a Centaur. Kerra/Vah'Shir/Kurashasa, sure. It's a matter of opinion, really.

On the Elves, I've seen a few games, and a couple fantasy novels where Elves were portrayed as physical powerhouses.
Warcraft's Night Elves (particularly the Women) were very much the in your face fighters, with a dab of agile fighting built in. Sure, they're not the berserker, overmuscled strong characters, but they were portrayed as being quite resilient and strong in the field of battle.
In RA Salvatore's Dark Elf Trilogy, many of the elves are painted as sinister, cutthroat fighters, weaponmasters, even. The strength that the Elvaan show is not unique only to them.

Zuken wrote:
Bangaa in here would feel more cheap than copying all of xi's races to me :/ maybe a stylized reworking of them? the bangaa's from ivalice have always felt childish to me, which makes sense since their game of origin was aimed at a lower age group... but if they just take the name and the general discription of "lizard men race" and work from scratch from there, I'm sure it would work out alright... maybe

I've never thought of them as being very childish.
Screenshot
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#129 Aug 08 2009 at 6:02 PM Rating: Decent
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It was LOTR that changed the popular image of elves being weak and diminutive to tall and having combat prowess, I believe.
#130 Aug 08 2009 at 6:07 PM Rating: Decent
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I wasn't talking about physical powerhouses as in they can hold their own in a melee, I ment muscle power, which is unique, very very few of RA salvator's dark elves where more than just agile, with a notable exception being the original owner of kazedhea or w/e its called

warcrafts night elves are still most noted for their shamans and theyre history and their split with the highselves revolves around a dispute over magic, their aesthetics show muscled arms but their lore (built over several games) says they focus on magic

and regardless of xii, I can't see a bangaa without picturing this

so yes, regardless of how upped graphics make them look, they would have to be completely reworked aesthetically to meld into xi well

EDIT: even in LOTR they were primarily a magic based society, being the single largest producer of magic weapons as far as I could gather...

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 10:09pm by Zuken
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#131 Aug 08 2009 at 6:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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warcrafts night elves are still most noted for their shamans and theyre history and their split with the highselves revolves around a dispute over magic, their aesthetics show muscled arms but their lore (built over several games) says they focus on magic



NE's were noted for their druids and the sentinels. Lore wise, before the sundering there were mages and warriors in the NE society. Afterwards, the males were mostly druids, the women either priestess or sentinels. The sentinels were basically warriors, so i would not say that lore wise the NE's were magic oriented. The high elves, yeah they were. They had rangers, but still mostly magic oriented.

Quote:
so yes, regardless of how upped graphics make them look, they would have to be completely reworked aesthetically to meld into xi well


I thought the picture of the bangaa that the previous poster linked would fit rather well into a setting as portrayed in the trailer.

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 10:43pm by KacesofCaitsith
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#132 Aug 08 2009 at 9:12 PM Rating: Decent
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well you've now stepped beyond what I know of the warcraft universe and yea I ment druids but I couldn't remember which of those classes used which name, anyway it still seems like the sentinals were a supplement to the druids and preists... anyway this is getting off topic, the bangaa from XII look... better... but would still have to be very refined and made darker (not talking about color) to blend seamlessly. like I said, I wouldn't mind having bangaas... if they were bangaa's in the same way xi's orcs are based off any other set of orcs...

to try and rerail the thread (sorry, my fault) just let SE go with their creative license and as long as they do /something/ new with the classes I'll be satisfied... I personally could see SE making a new lithe dex/agi based male only class before I could see them adding in manthra as pc's... just based off their style up til now
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#133 Aug 09 2009 at 1:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've read almost this entire thread today, even though my first, and only, post was on the first page, and I've seen that one major point for wanting to play a male miqo'te is that it will help players who want to play a miqo'te better relate to their avatar.

This really stands out to me. In a very good way.
I can almost completely understand where you're coming from.

In every MMORPG I've played I've chosen to play as a female character. I played a female mithra in FFXI and a female hume in FFXI. I considered playing a male, but I thought it would be weird.

It wasn't until I picked up a game called Perfect World, where I made an alternate character to play...and it was a male. I already had a high level female wizard, but I wanted to try a barbarian...a MALE ONLY class.

At first I thought it wouldn't bother me and I wouldn't care. Shortly after starting the game I realized that it really did.

It wasn't just running around as a male character and hearing my male avatar letting out loud, deep, bellowing roars and grunts that turned me off, but rather it was mostly the fact that everyone assumed I was a "dude". They spoke to me like a guy and treated me like a guy and always referred to me as "he".
No amount of "I'm not a guy!" could stop it.

I gave up playing the character because it was a little too obnoxious for me.

I'm female. Even in the MMORPG world I am female. In general I like being seen as female and treated as female.

If you want to say that someone who is uncomfortable playing as another gender is uncomfortable with their sexuality go right ahead. It doesn't change the fact that it can be seriously weird sometimes.

I'm sure it has to be worse for guys playing a female only class. They must get hit on a lot.

In Perfect World, the female barbarian alternative is a Venomancer...and being the easiest and must lucrative class to play (by FAR), many males play that class. There is no male version. Many guys are hit on. You could say that the Venomancer is the FFXI mithra equivalent, just a lot less clothes and throw in the options for fox ears, bunny ears, and bat wing ears.

From my P.O.V. I would not play a Galka or a Roegadyn. Why?
Because they are male only classes and, from experience, it would be just too weird for me.


Also, I would like to mention that it's not only males who want to see "cute kitty boys" in the game.

[Why have I seen this term used to much? Who is to say the male miqo'te won't be tall and rugged? (Unless I'm wrong...I never saw it myself) But isn't everyone basing the "male version" of a Miqo'te off of either fan art or the single male mithra in FFXI (again, never saw it myself)?

Who knows what the male miqo'te could look like!]

Just as some males find female 'cat-girls' alluring, some females find male 'cat-boys' alluring. Having male miqo'te in FFXIV will be nice eye candy for the females who play the game (and more females play MMORPGs than a lot of people think.)
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#134 Aug 09 2009 at 1:34 PM Rating: Decent
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thats the only reason I want a Miqo'te male, is because I am a male. I played a mithra with my roommate for a little bit and couldn't stand it. yes they are attractive but when I play mmo's myself I like at least my *** to be the same because I feel like it's a part of me, I would rather be treated as a guy than get hit on.
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#135 Aug 09 2009 at 2:35 PM Rating: Default
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Finaa wrote:
I gave up playing the character because it was a little too obnoxious for me.
I'm female. Even in the MMORPG world I am female. In general I like being seen as female and treated as female.

Normally it takes 20-40 minutes of moderate talk to understand whether the player male or female - regardless of avatar. It's more depend on how you talk and behave than how you avatar looks like.
For example - I never have a problem with my gender identity in game, even if some people occasionally calls me "she" (I am playing mithra and I am a guy) - it never last long. This is given the fact that i never directly state anything about my ooc personality - because I neither speak, no behave like a girl. And one acquaintance of mine is playing galka beeing a girl - and no one sane thinks about her as a male after spending some time in chat with her.

And you should understand that MMo society is mostly consist of men - so they get used that anyone else most likely male, especially male character :)

Finaa wrote:
Having male miqo'te in FFXIV will be nice eye candy for the females who play the game

Do you want to see them or to play them?
Female playing cute cat-boy will be much more controversal and hard to prove female identity than any other race.

Finaa wrote:
and more females play MMORPGs than a lot of people think.

From personal experience it's like 1 in 5 for casual-style MMO, like WoW, and 1 in 10 for more hardcore MMO, like FFXI - it's nowhere near roughly 1 to 1 as in IRL
#136 Aug 09 2009 at 2:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Phess wrote:

Do you want to see them or to play them?
Female playing cute cat-boy will be much more controversal and hard to prove female identity than any other race.


Just see them.

If I was going to play a character it would be female.
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#137 Aug 09 2009 at 9:35 PM Rating: Good
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This is a great attitude to have. Rate up.

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The biggest argument in favor of making this change would be that SE is a company, and doesn't want to lose customers but I sincerely hope they do not buckle for that reason alone. I hope they add male mithra, but more than that I hope they don't bend over backwards and try and fit in things they never wanted in the game just because the players tell them to.


I agree. I play SE games primarily because I'm constantly impressed by their originality, imersiveness and beauty. I'd much rather play the game that SE wants to make then the game that fans want them to make. If male Miqo'te are not part of that vision, then I wouldn't want them added just to please the fan base. If they are part of that vision, then I'll welcome them.


Edited, Aug 10th 2009 1:35am by keelut
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#138 Aug 10 2009 at 9:20 PM Rating: Good
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If there are going to be male Miqo'te then that is what I would be playing because it's what resembles my body type closer in RL. I might still prefer to be a Lalafel if magic stats are significantly higher like that of FFXI.
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#139 Aug 10 2009 at 10:23 PM Rating: Decent
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There should be male Miqo'te

If only to make the homophobic players realize that what they thought they were staring at was a Mithra's *** for the last hour was actually the dude with the gravel voice on vent...

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that what they thought they were
wow... that's terrible sentence structure on my part. Oh well.
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#140 Aug 11 2009 at 5:03 AM Rating: Decent
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I think what's interesting in all this is that people really like their gender binaries.

(SE is partly to blame. if Galka "aren't really males" then they shouldn't dress like males in comparison to the other races. [Although it's probably a technical limitation, to be fair.])

Edited, Aug 11th 2009 9:04am by KPBeta
#141 Aug 11 2009 at 5:40 AM Rating: Decent
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No, I think it's more a matter of decency >_>
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#142 Aug 11 2009 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
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KPBeta wrote:
if Galka "aren't really males" then they shouldn't dress like males in comparison to the other races.


I don't think it was ever that the Galka weren't male... I mean, obviously they were. It's more that they just didn't need females to reproduce.
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#143 Aug 11 2009 at 7:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Eh, I'm disappointed in Square.

Both the lack of male Miqo'te, and the lack of female Roegadyn.

Maybe I'm totally not biased on the fact that I was heavily disappointed because I couldn't play a female Galka in FFXI... but honestly, after finding out about this, a lot of my interest and anticipation in FFXIV was crushed, because I have a feeling that it looks like this is going to be the first in a long series of "We didn't learn from our mistakes"

There are still no strong females in FFXIV, and no agile males. It's not nearly as bad as the blatent sexism in some other games (I'm looking at you Perfect World), but it's still rather tasteless. I'm disappointed in Square.

Edited, Aug 11th 2009 11:54am by Karelyn
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#144 Aug 11 2009 at 9:12 AM Rating: Default
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Karelyn wrote:

Maybe I'm totally not biased on the fact that I was heavily disappointed because I couldn't play a female Galka in FFXI... but honestly, after finding out about this, a lot of my interest and anticipation in FFXIV was crushed, because I have a feeling that it looks like this is going to be the first in a long series of "We didn't learn from our mistakes"


I really don't think SE sees the lack of playable galka females and mithra males as a mistake.

And I don't get why people were expecting this in the first place. When they announced FFXIV they said that the races would be the same so that players of FFXI would feel at home. Making Roegadyn females would make them much more different from their galka counterparts. No tail + female = not the same race.

Anyway I always thought that when they originally thought of ffxi they created galkas as the mithra females but then changed it. That was my take on it anyway.
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#145 Aug 11 2009 at 9:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Karelyn wrote:

There are still no strong females in FFXIV, and no agile males. It's not nearly as bad as the blatent sexism in some other games (I'm looking at you Perfect World), but it's still rather tasteless. I'm disappointed in Square.

Edited, Aug 11th 2009 11:54am by Karelyn


QFT.

The beast race was the epitome of sexism.
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#146 Aug 11 2009 at 9:51 AM Rating: Good
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I would think people would want male Miqo'te just so they can feel more confident that the female Miqo'te they're hitting on is actually a female. Sure there would still be guys playing female characters, but given an alternative it wouldn't be nearly as many.

I was personally hoping there would be male Miqo'te just so that I could play as a cat person and not get grief from my girlfriend that we can't get married in the game. (^_^)
#147 Aug 11 2009 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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ashikenshin wrote:
Karelyn wrote:

Maybe I'm totally not biased on the fact that I was heavily disappointed because I couldn't play a female Galka in FFXI... but honestly, after finding out about this, a lot of my interest and anticipation in FFXIV was crushed, because I have a feeling that it looks like this is going to be the first in a long series of "We didn't learn from our mistakes"


I really don't think SE sees the lack of playable galka females and mithra males as a mistake.

And I don't get why people were expecting this in the first place. When they announced FFXIV they said that the races would be the same so that players of FFXI would feel at home. Making Roegadyn females would make them much more different from their galka counterparts. No tail + female = not the same race.

Anyway I always thought that when they originally thought of ffxi they created galkas as the mithra females but then changed it. That was my take on it anyway.

I understand that they are wanting to make FFXI players feel at home. And gender exclusive races isn't the worst mistake in the world. But it is subtlety reinforcing sexism in an MMO, and the playerbase in any MMO already struggle heavily with sexism.

"Okay we have an agile race that is female only, and a strong race that is male only"

It's not as bad as games like Perfect World, which restricted the tanking class to males only. And yes, I understand most women don't want to play a strong race. But does a game developer really need to be discouraging women from playing strong characters, or men from playing agile 'feminine' characters?

Let gender in MMOs be purely aesthetic. It's very tasteless trying to shoehorn men and women into (or out of) particular roles.

I wish Square had decided to take the mature high road, instead of continuing to be one of the few remaining MMOs to put an arbitrary restriction on gender.

Edited, Aug 11th 2009 2:39pm by Karelyn
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#148Phess, Posted: Aug 11 2009 at 10:54 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You know that there was some story behind why there are no male mithra in FFXI?
#149 Aug 13 2009 at 1:36 AM Rating: Good
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I think SE should have male Miqo'te and female Roegadyn for the simple fact that it's player base has been asking and pleading with SE for years. I could see how the folklore from XI could have stopped it in XI but now? Nope no reason.I don't think it is an unreasonable request am I wrong?...Not
#150 Aug 13 2009 at 7:20 AM Rating: Default
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Karelyn wrote:

I understand that they are wanting to make FFXI players feel at home. And gender exclusive races isn't the worst mistake in the world. But it is subtlety reinforcing sexism in an MMO, and the playerbase in any MMO already struggle heavily with sexism.

"Okay we have an agile race that is female only, and a strong race that is male only"

It's not as bad as games like Perfect World, which restricted the tanking class to males only. And yes, I understand most women don't want to play a strong race. But does a game developer really need to be discouraging women from playing strong characters, or men from playing agile 'feminine' characters?

Let gender in MMOs be purely aesthetic. It's very tasteless trying to shoehorn men and women into (or out of) particular roles.

I wish Square had decided to take the mature high road, instead of continuing to be one of the few remaining MMOs to put an arbitrary restriction on gender.


I'm probably going to be labeled as a SE defense fanboy. But, for arguments sake (and I like this argument). I really don't think maturity or taking the high road have anything to do with this. They created a unique race with some restraints (galka) which had a very unique story. Galka's lack of reproduction made me think of them as the dragons in "dragon heart" or the eldaar in warhammer 40k. They are becoming extinct and they won't go down without a fight (as a race).
The mithra are a matriarch race which makes them very strong females. The weaklings in their race are the males and so therefore they are heavily protected for survival's sake. I really don't see the sexism there. I see races with back stories worthy of a book.
There isn't a strong difference between galkas and mithras in terms of stats. Maybe only early on but it can be argued. Galkas high vit rating can be good for tanking, but also mithra's high agi. Galka's strength makes them good fighters, but also mithra's high dex.
In closing, I see your point. I just think that having variety in sense that not all races are exact copies of humans but with different ears or body mass is good.
I wouldn't stop playing if they added female Roegadyn or male Mygotes(sp?) I would probably roll a female Roegadyn since I like big hulking women with big axes (weird i know). But, I don't think not adding them makes SE into a sexist inmature company.
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#151 Aug 13 2009 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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I would rather have a good designed game with a nice story where everything consistent in-game even if it will ignore and thus not satisfy some people wishes, than bunch of sh*tty players ideas (99% of player ideas are far from beeing even good) put together with loosy strings.


Last time I checked, I'm pretty sure that having a race with both males and females is fairly common these days...

A game doesn't need to explain why there's both a male and female of a race, so how could this be put together with "loosy" strings?
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