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Random thoughts about FFXI and XIV Follow

#1 Aug 05 2009 at 10:25 PM Rating: Good
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I've been reading a few threads on the "job" (for lack of a better term atm) system, and I agree it should have much more depth. But that's only half of the equation. Mob AI needs a serious buff. You can have a crapload of abilities, but if the mob AI does the same thing over and over, what is really the point?

In FFXI, most fights are planned out well in advance. You do this at 75%, you do this at 50% etc. Boring. Mobs need to be more random and battles more fluid. Be honest, those of you who did/do FFXI endgame, after the first few battles with a new NM, it's basically autopilot from then on. Mobs should be just as deep as PCs with even more abilities. Without cheesiness, how hard is a mob that only has 3-6 abilities? I want to see mobs with tons of different abilities.

Make them smarter, for instance, if they're getting melee zerged down, have them go defensive, buff up, call for help, kite you, and/or start dropping AoEs after they "realize" what's going on. Anything to throw a wrench into your plans. These things are well within the realm of computer science today. **** they were within the realm of computer science when XI came out. I don't want to see anymore super detailed so-called "strategies". There's nothing strategic about a zerg. If you think so, I'd love to play chess against you. I want to see fluid battles, that call for quick thinking, due to unexpected circumstances. Not a script.

Victory should mean something, not be expected. It's silly to "farm" HNMs for gear every week. I'm thinking something along the lines of a FFXI RDM vs 6 ep mobs. In this case tho, the RDM is the HNM and the eps are us. The RDM would use all his tricks to try to survive, not just stand there and get pounded into the ground.

Also, how about a little more dungeon crawling? Nyzul is fun, but too restrictive. FFXI is WAY TOO RESTRICTIVE. You can only do this every 72 hours. You have to pay hundreds of thousands of gil to do this. This only pops once a week (real life time). Just stop it already.

Another flaw of FFXI is the dependence on gil, instead of combat. Of course, currency is needed, but it shouldn't be the main focus of the game. When people have to take weeks and months of farming to afford one piece of gear, that's way too much. And it only opens the door for RMT activity. I'd like it if there were basic gear (NQ AH stuff) that can be upgraded with "battle points". Now instead of spending months farming for that +1, you just go about your business in game advancing your character, and you will eventually get your +1, or +2, or +3 etc. Also for the hardcore players, it's the same thing. They'll just upgrade faster.

Of course they'll still be the rare gear. But even that needs an overhaul. I think getting rare gear should be a testament to your skill, not how many friends you have. I know, someone is gonna chime in with the old "but why play a MMO if you wanna solo". Well, consider life a MMO. You level up in school, (solo) get a job depending on your credentials, (gear and $$$) then contribute to society (join a pt). It's a rough analogy, not to be taken too literally, like most, but I hope I made my point. The main difference is that in the game, you can continue going back to school indefinitely (if only life were like that. I'd love to be a life long student).

I know I'm probably asking a lot, but as much as I love FFXI, I really, really hope this doesn't end up being FFXI+1.
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#2 Aug 05 2009 at 10:48 PM Rating: Good
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Battles progress in real-time, but are not action-oriented, i.e. There is more to consider during battle that simply targeting the enemy and wailing away on it
(Source)

While not completely confirmed yet, I agree that this would represent a major improvement from the battle system in FFXI...

Edited, Aug 5th 2009 11:48pm by akirussan
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#3 Aug 06 2009 at 5:18 AM Rating: Decent
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A few simple things in XIV would make me play it:

Getting rid of all stupid restricting timers, like you said, this game is too restricting. Dynamis is a prime example, as are ENMs and 'Wait til JP midnight' missions. If you do dynamis every possible chance you can it still takes years to upgrade a relic weapon. I'm all for a challenge, but come on!

Having a better way to deal with RMT, bots and cheaters in general. This is a biggie for me since the way SE has been treating it's paying customers is disgusting and is the single biggest thing stopping me wanting to play XIV. Needs moar customer support.

Fixing drop rates on certain items so we don't waste all our time. I get that to SE, waste of time for us means money for them. I get that some items are rare and powerful, and they deserve to be hard to get. What I don't understand is the rediculous drop rate on simple things, like Carbuncle's Ruby, which are vital to unlocking a job. All r/ex quest items should be **** near 100% unless the quest gets you something ultra powerful or a ton of gil.

NM's, love them or not, they'll probably be in XIV. I'm fine with this as long as they don't make an extremely powerful one, make it a random spawn after beating another powerful one and to top it all off NOT tell you how to kill it after 3-4 years. The stupid video clue was useless, no one has figured it out yet AFAIK. Even when people found ways to kill it, SE changed it. Just... Why? Is he your version of a joke? Did it offend you that people could beat what you're own dev team took forever to do, with top notch gear and probably some immunity that they players don't have?

Normal monsters need an upgrade. FFXI was fun for the first year or two, going out, getting exp on new jobs, excitement! Then it became:

Crab, Beetle, Crawler, Crab, Beetle, Crawler, Crab, Crab, Crab, the odd Bat or Worm, Crab. All the time Crab... Thickshell, Steelshell, Snipper, Bigclaw, Rock Crab, Robber Crab. Enough with the **** Crab.

This has changed a bit since the early days but it still boils down to Birds, Imps, Mamool at high levels. Some variety, please!

It seems like a long list but its not that much to ask, really. Some different mobs (not reskins of old ones), plenty of places where everyone can get decent exp (or skill points or whatever XIV uses), instead of cramming us all in one area. Some decent drop rates for non-uber items and r/ex stuff. Don't make rediculous NMs and don't have us waiting 5 days between certain fights or until JP midnight for missions that took you 3 hours to get a group together for.
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#4 Aug 06 2009 at 5:40 AM Rating: Good
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In FFXI, most fights are planned out well in advance. You do this at 75%, you do this at 50% etc. Boring.


Well maybe so but that's not really the clear whole picture. When the game first started there were a variety of methods applied. FFXI didn't have meleeburn for about 3+ years. Maybe it's just the nature of the player to find the most efficient and effective means of gaining XP which will lead any game they make to be distilled down to it's purest fighting to get the most out of the time.

I do hope they do something with AI or make position important, etc but I think it's unfair to criticize SE because the players in FFXI have engineered so many effective methods of getting ideal XP rates.
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#5 Aug 06 2009 at 7:16 AM Rating: Default
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Make them smarter, for instance, if they're getting melee zerged down, have them go defensive, buff up, call for help, kite you, and/or start dropping AoEs after they "realize" what's going on. Anything to throw a wrench into your plans. These things are well within the realm of computer science today. **** they were within the realm of computer science when XI came out. I don't want to see anymore super detailed so-called "strategies". There's nothing strategic about a zerg. If you think so, I'd love to play chess against you. I want to see fluid battles, that call for quick thinking, due to unexpected circumstances. Not a script.


I agree the hnms need to be more difficult and less predictable. The hnms and monsters work on the same system we do, so they can't just spam moves, because they use TP also. This is why when you have less melee hitting a mob it use moves less, and when you have a lot of melee it use moves more frequently. How is a mob really going to "call for help" with no mobs around (unless they spawn mobs). Some hnms do spawns mobs but either way it will be predictable. Only way a hnm kiting you would work is if they were immune to stun and other binding moves. Kiting only works from us because its 18 v 1 mob usually. Kiting wouldn't work for a mob with 18 people hunting it. People would just be in different spots and wait for it to start kiting, kind of like the frog NM in salvage that runs around.

They should make difficult hnms without making an AV, but after you beat something it will become easier. There has to be a reason why you beat it, and of course that way usually works again. Even Pandemonium warden which is difficult and changes forms many times, have been defeated many times. I agree they should be diffcult and more on skill but I don't see how the same strategy (or a small tweeked version) wouldn't work again. I mean hnms wasn't always easy, when fafnir was first added, people got spike flailed left and right and didn't know why. People use to try and kite him and it was a while before it became as easy as he is now. I don't see how you can stop people from finding a working strategy without tweeking the hnms in updates frequently, and making them different through updates.
#6 Aug 06 2009 at 10:54 AM Rating: Decent
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I do hope they do something with AI or make position important, etc but I think it's unfair to criticize SE because the players in FFXI have engineered so many effective methods of getting ideal XP rates.


I disagree. If SE can't counter player methods, then that just shows how incompetent they are. Look, I can fix that problem for you in a minute.

Meleeburn is so effective because there's an xp cap on monsters anyway, and monsters don't give experience proportionate to difficulty. A VT can take a party 30 seconds and give ~150 xp. An IT++ might give ~250 xp but take like three minutes to down.

Well here's a ******* thought. Make enemies that are that much harder give that much more xp. Give some incentive for taking down IT+++ Give xp for taking down NMs and HNMs while you're at it. Let players choose if they want to go on a VT killing spree for 10k/hour or get 10k for killing an NM that takes an hour. Encourage players to attempt harder battles with xp, rather than run away from them because they can only lose xp.

And I can't believe they haven't fixed SCs yet. That was kind of a fundamental game mechanic, and all it needs is a couple of tweaks to make it useful again. Give Skillchains better damage and other beneficial properties (like status, healing, etc.) Improve MB damage and effects.

These are such relatively simple changes-- it's not the players' fault that SE can't keep up with them.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

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Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#7 Aug 07 2009 at 11:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Crab, Beetle, Crawler, Crab, Beetle, Crawler, Crab, Crab, Crab, the odd Bat or Worm, Crab. All the time Crab... Thickshell, Steelshell, Snipper, Bigclaw, Rock Crab, Robber Crab. Enough with the **** Crab.



lol~~~~~~
#8 Aug 08 2009 at 12:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Fermion wrote:
There's nothing strategic about a zerg.


World War II would like to have a word with you.
#9 Aug 08 2009 at 12:30 AM Rating: Decent
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I'll fix that for you.

There's nothing strategic about ALWAYS zerging.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
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