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#52 Aug 06 2009 at 10:48 PM Rating: Decent
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A thaumaturge is generally a healer. I'm really hoping that's just an attempt at flavor text. I prefer the classics like White Mage, Devout, etc.

This game has moved from a sure thing to on the fence for me. There's still plenty of time for it to charge through the fence with an eighteen wheeler, but so far the major gameplay elements are not exciting me, and there's a notable lack of the kind of news I want to hear.

If it were to come out tomorrow and all I had to go on was what's been released so far, I wouldn't buy it. Here's hoping that SE is still holding a lot of very critical game elements in secret.
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#53 Aug 07 2009 at 12:17 AM Rating: Decent
Funny how under the Roegadyn race it says "size matters". yeah I went there ._.

But anyway, reading on the disciplines I'm getting SE wants to go into more of that seesaw effect? If that's the case what about those wanting to excell in say warrior and a craft/helm? Maybe I'm just too stuck on XI's system of the separation of the two and that you could level any job you want to max (excluding crafting since you had some level limitations). There's not a whole lot info, mostly recognizable stuff from Famitsu but then again it's nice to read more about the lore and what not. I guess we'll have to wait and see!

EDIT: Forgot a few words

Edited, Aug 7th 2009 1:33am by NguyetCam
#54 Aug 07 2009 at 12:50 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:

This game has moved from a sure thing to on the fence for me. There's still plenty of time for it to charge through the fence with an eighteen wheeler, but so far the major gameplay elements are not exciting me, and there's a notable lack of the kind of news I want to hear.


I agree. I went from drooling over the thought to not being sure if it is worth me purchasing.
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#55 Aug 07 2009 at 1:13 AM Rating: Decent
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lol this is essenstially just final fantasy XI with better graphics, new cities, and different names for everything. I'm not complaining though. I'm still goin to play bst lol
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#56 Aug 07 2009 at 1:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Oh how fetching, they didn't even bother to update our EU sites...
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#57 Aug 07 2009 at 1:54 AM Rating: Good
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Here's another gathering of images for those of you who are still having trouble accessing the site: http://www.ff14site.com/thread-215.html

I'm really pumped about this game.
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#58 Aug 07 2009 at 2:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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ditx wrote:
Oh how fetching, they didn't even bother to update our EU sites...
They haven't updated all of the JP site either. It's missing the information on the armory system, classes, guild leves, and the teleport crystals. Simply says "coming soon."

My guess would be they're still writing and uploading the individual parts.
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#59 Aug 07 2009 at 2:28 AM Rating: Decent
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I guess it's official, no new races. I am so disappointed.
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#60 Aug 07 2009 at 2:44 AM Rating: Good
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By the way, if you're still having trouble remember to clear your cache each time you reload otherwise you wont get anywhere if it's not loading at all

That's ***********
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#61 Aug 07 2009 at 5:58 AM Rating: Decent
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The whole thing with Aetheryte teleportation being somewhat restricted just sounds like "You must wait one Earth day before taking more Guildleves."
#62 Aug 07 2009 at 5:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Obiar wrote:
I guess it's official, no new races. I am so disappointed.


I don't think it's official.

There are no new races announced yet.

I can think of two games off the top of my head, that I've played, where all of the races were not implemented at the start of the game.

Pandora Saga and Mabinogi.
Pandora Saga didn't release Myrine and Lapin (I believe) races until later (the game went live I believe).

Mabinogi didn't release elves or giant races until months after the game got out of beta. And, of course, there was nothing on the website saying "By the way we're going to have new races several months from now."

SE can be either withholding information or plans on adding more later. (Expansion pack?)

I say it's official when one of the developers says "By the way, these are the only races there will ever be."

The game isn't even set to be out until 'sometime' in 2010.

There is a lot of time for additions...before and after the game begins.
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#63 Aug 07 2009 at 7:01 AM Rating: Good
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Obiar wrote:
I guess it's official, no new races. I am so disappointed.


You can't say it's official, if we get down to technicalities, there's officially only 1 city and this game will only be released in the US >.>

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#64 Aug 07 2009 at 7:06 AM Rating: Excellent
ditx wrote:
By the way, if you're still having trouble remember to clear your cache each time you reload otherwise you wont get anywhere if it's not loading at all

That's CTRL+shift+R
FTFY
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#65 Aug 07 2009 at 8:46 AM Rating: Good
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There will be more than 4 combat classes, they are just teasing the information.

But wtf is up with the 'thaumaturge'?

Can't we keep the old job names? Is that a white mage? a black mage? a summoner?

I like what they are doing, but I am not so eager to play a 'thaumaturge' as I am to play something that has a FF-traditional name.


I just want to mention that I noticed somewhere about the developers trying to stay away from the traditional names of familiar ff jobs.

I welcome this, very much so, It will be very interesting and allows much more player customization as to who you are versus, being war/nin required. Thats my hope anyway, btw I wonder if this means the summons will no longer be familiar ones, and instead all new summons in the different elements/non elemental. The real summons are just big boss fights somewhere, like ifrit, shiva, etc.

Also for anyone else interested, thaumaturge is an actual name in english, it means worker of mystical arts, magician of sorts, it could be considered an illusionist. Which doesn't mean white/red/black magic. I think the name in japanese was something like gen-jutsu-ju or something like that, which basically is referenced the same as thaumaturge(magician) since this name is on the official site, expect (at least for now) this to be the official name given.
#66 Aug 07 2009 at 8:52 AM Rating: Good
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So what things would make you guys buy this game? I dont understand how with such small amounts of info and absolutely no gameplay, people are saying they wouldnt buy the game? Im not saying its enough to say you -would- either, but do you really decide your games based on the names of the classes in it? Seems like you might miss out on a few gems out there with that kind of attitude. Im not defending it because theres not enough information to do so, I'm just saying that people are making huge assumptions and disappointing themselves for no apparent reason. The only things I'm hearing as positive from SE, amazing-looking environments, an innovative and customisable job system (Which we barely know anything about, but is likely to be far different from what we've seen so far), and a cool looking guild system.

Also, if you say the changes to gameplay arent exciting you very much, it's probably because we don't know hardly any of what it involves. Changing weapons is, at the base of it, changing jobs on the go and I dont really get why people are feeling bad for that..

Of course, if theres another interview or video somewhere that has actually released these defining details I apologise.
#67 Aug 07 2009 at 8:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
A thaumaturge is generally a healer. I'm really hoping that's just an attempt at flavor text. I prefer the classics like White Mage, Devout, etc.

This game has moved from a sure thing to on the fence for me. There's still plenty of time for it to charge through the fence with an eighteen wheeler, but so far the major gameplay elements are not exciting me, and there's a notable lack of the kind of news I want to hear.

If it were to come out tomorrow and all I had to go on was what's been released so far, I wouldn't buy it. Here's hoping that SE is still holding a lot of very critical game elements in secret.


I'd have to say SE is holding about 99% of the game bulk still back, but if they released it tomorrow with this little information, just as you say. I would buy it, I'm very intrigued by how they are going about this system. The only thing that leaves me scratching my head at this point in confusion is the vagueness in battle besides the fact that it will "flow". I like strategy by all means, but they seriously better not implement something like waiting and turn based in an mmo. That is kind of out there, but that is what seemed like what they were talking about to me anyway. Also, don't make the pace any slower than FFXI. :P

I'm not sure if they will make thaumaturge a healer, it just doesn't seem like the type of word to use for healing magic. I would think more of "barrier" "illusion" and other types of magic that impedes the enemies, and also enfeebling comes to mind, but not exactly healing.
#68 Aug 07 2009 at 9:02 AM Rating: Decent
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I really hope for new races, but right now i'm intrigued by the whole "clan" concept. I'm hoping for statistical differences between the clan you choose to play. Not only that but different story progression. One that comes to mind is the duskwight Elezen. While the other Elezen clans have a friendly relation (at least co-habit), Duskwights absolute refusal of the intruders in their land, and perhaps some other conflict can progress from these story lines.

I'm not surprised about not announcing a new race, if they intend on releasing that information it will be much later. They already announced prior that the races of old return, so no surprise for us there.

What I find most interesting in the story, is perhaps another race and empire, perhaps even human-esqe in nature, and not beastman releated. Invading the land and capturing 1 of the 6 homelands. Fighting against these types of enemies is more appealing, and hopefully they will embody 1 of the many jobs between them with an array of varying attacks and tactics that we also employ, and unique racial ones as well.
#69 Aug 07 2009 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Shazaamemt wrote:
Quote:

This game has moved from a sure thing to on the fence for me. There's still plenty of time for it to charge through the fence with an eighteen wheeler, but so far the major gameplay elements are not exciting me, and there's a notable lack of the kind of news I want to hear.


I agree. I went from drooling over the thought to not being sure if it is worth me purchasing.


I'm kind of disappointed too. I never liked the FFXI races all that much, and yet we get the same ones again in FFXIV... with three city states again... You'd think with how long they've been working on this they could have come up with something new.

I really doubt we're going to see more races. It makes sense to withhold gameplay information, but withholding screenshots of a male Miqo'te (for example) just serves to disappoint the community in the short term. We know there are more gameplay details coming in the future, a simple 'more coming soon' in the races section would excite us more without releasing any additional information. If they had something in the pipe, it wouldn't make sense not to at least hint at it.
#70 Aug 07 2009 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Hmm, I was thinking of a male version of Miqo'te probably being introduced as another race altogether with a different name. They intermingle with Miqo'te's but are called something seperate. Same for the Roegayden or whatever their called hehe.
#71 Aug 07 2009 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
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wrong page D:


Edited, Aug 7th 2009 1:51pm by Foreverdrg
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#72 Aug 07 2009 at 10:11 AM Rating: Default
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i dont think there will be a male version of Miqo'te , because the races gonna be the same as xi and they kinda reminds me of the viera race in xii few in numbers and only females.
#73 Aug 07 2009 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
I got the same thing, but a quick reload fixed it.
#74 Aug 07 2009 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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I gotta say, there's not much juicy info, but at least it's presented in a logical way instead of the bits and pieces we've been getting.

Guildleves look like a fancy name/mechanic for missions/quests. They mention secondary benefits for Guildleves, so it will be interesting to see what some of those benefits are and whether they would actually apply to activities that aren't directly related to that GL (yea, I've typed it twice now and I already want to abbreviate "Guildleve.")

The concept art is all gorgeous. I'm still waiting to see the specifics of the job/progression system before I decide if this is the game for me.
#75 Aug 07 2009 at 10:32 AM Rating: Decent
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All I got from this new information is that you can change job, get quests/missions and use teleport crags. For some reason I'm getting an odd feeling of déjà vu...

Oh and you can fish with axes.
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#76 Aug 07 2009 at 10:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think there will definitely be 1 new race atleast. They won't announce it till later, they haven't put up the artwork for Ishgard either, another of the main cities.
#77 Aug 07 2009 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
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Something else that stood out for me was how they attempted no explanation for why the new Mithra/Galka are male/female only. I have no idea if this is the case, but it seems possible that there actually are opposite-*** versions of those races, and they're just withholding that information for now.

Oh, and the forest city really looks like Lothlorien.
#78 Aug 07 2009 at 11:19 AM Rating: Decent
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For anyone who still cannot see all of the text, I typed it out in a thread at Ten Ton Hammer here. You are welcome to copy and paste if you want to take the time.
#79 Aug 07 2009 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
So what things would make you guys buy this game? I dont understand how with such small amounts of info and absolutely no gameplay, people are saying they wouldnt buy the game? Im not saying its enough to say you -would- either, but do you really decide your games based on the names of the classes in it? Seems like you might miss out on a few gems out there with that kind of attitude. Im not defending it because theres not enough information to do so, I'm just saying that people are making huge assumptions and disappointing themselves for no apparent reason. The only things I'm hearing as positive from SE, amazing-looking environments, an innovative and customisable job system (Which we barely know anything about, but is likely to be far different from what we've seen so far), and a cool looking guild system.

Also, if you say the changes to gameplay arent exciting you very much, it's probably because we don't know hardly any of what it involves. Changing weapons is, at the base of it, changing jobs on the go and I dont really get why people are feeling bad for that..


To clarify, the names of the classes really had nothing to do with it. I really wouldn't even go so far as to call it another nail in the coffin. People had asked what a thaumaturge was so I simply answered.

It will be a combination of the cosmetics and gameplay that decide it for me. So far there are major cosmetic elements I'm not seeing that I need to see, like new races (things I'll expect to see later include monsters and attack/ability graphical execution). We're talking about the people of this world, here. I don't even care as much if there's a new race that I particularly like so long as there are new types of character models that I see as I'm walking through towns. I want to see new races in my party at the very least. Give me something here. PS2 limitations were the big excuse for no new races in XI, so show me now that that wasn't a ******** answer. Another cosmetic aspect is going to be this weapon and gear changing. If it's something that you'll end up doing consistently, that's going to be a big turnoff for me.

But so far it's the gameplay that really has me second guessing, and like I said, it could go either way. They say they're going in the fluid direction, and that's good... that's where I want them to go. But at this point, I'm not convinced that they haven't made things just a little more fluid and celebrated prematurely on an innovative job well done. I need to actually see that players are going to be able to create the kind of characters that they want to create, and not feel that they've been overlooked in the customization process. If someone wants to be an axe-wielding bard with wind magic (and be reasonably effective with it), I want to see that possibility for them within the game. THAT is fluidity. Being able to change between a cookie cutter melee and a cookie cutter mage is not what I call fluidity.

I definitely don't want to see any seesaw elements. No unique abilities, no irreversible decisions, no major stat differences, and certainly no unique stories. Those elements can add a lot of realism and liveliness to a world. They also force players to miss out on content or play multiple characters. I'm not opposed to implementing solutions to some of these things, like letting players transform their character to a different race every once in a while. Seesaw is the opposite of fluid.

So we'll see, but so far I'm not impressed. I can take the information given at this point and create either an awful game or an amazing game.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#80 Aug 07 2009 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
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I am going to buy this game simply because it is Final Fantasy.
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#81 Aug 07 2009 at 3:42 PM Rating: Decent
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I really wish they would of just called this MMO a different name. I expected SE to do everything different this time. There's no reason to think FFXI, even if it is a FF name. I am love with the possibilities and to make our own character advance as to what the payer does. Many forget that of course they are going to hype the changes. The funny thing on "switching jobs" with Leroy. Is that no one mentions an extremely vital hyphen word followed by additional confirmation.

FFXIV official site, Gameplay, The Armoury, Page 3/6 wrote:
Dismayed yet not given to despair, Leeroy sheathes his sword and takes up his well-worn staff, assuming the role of thaumaturge, his most advanced class.


You will not be able to just "switch jobs" instantly. Again Weapons/armor will need to reach effective stats to be efficient. Hype the changes, chip away with limitations later.

There is no need to worry. The grind will be there but because there is so much content it will not feel like a grind.

I'm hyped and pumped! Learn to feel uncomfortable. It brings great things. There is FFXI to fall back on if you hate it.
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#82 Aug 07 2009 at 3:46 PM Rating: Decent
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I can see what you mean, and what I said wasn't specifically aimed at anyone in particular, rather the cloud of negative comments that seem to have arisen from the overall very small amount of info we've got so far (considering how big MMOs are). I can see what you mean about cosmetic necessities to separate it from FFXI, although in my personal opinion as long as they make everything much better than 11 I'd be happy, being as I think the races of 11 pretty much cover all of the major archetypes of general fantasy lore, though it can't hurt to have more.

I can understand that you want a high level of customisation, but I think there are limits to what should be expected to be within the realms of accessibility to a 'bard'. In addition, I dont see the problem with a 'seesaw' effect, it doesnt have to literally be 'you raise this, then this goes down in reaction', it can be 'you raise this past x point of high level expertise, then you can only level the rest to x point in order to prevent imbalance'. I appreciate the desire to play as you want, but it should only be either 'a bard with some capabilities in axes' or 'a warrior who can.. sing a little for buffs..' or 'a hybrid buff/attack type' and not 'a bard/healer/attacker/anything you level because no form of seesaw is in place'.

finally, I don't see how a see-saw necessitates needing more than one character, being as I think they're emphasising being able to switch jobs like 11. I think the idea of a see-saw in this respect is more like picking a main type and then assigning secondary abilities in relation to what you have access to based on what you've levelled, basically like a diverse sub-job system of sorts.

I can understand what you mean, but I kinda just want people to have a little bit of faith in SE, I mean, we've all played 11 for years (or most of us), so they must have done something right in their very first MMO. It just depresses me a little to think 'oh yeah, this could be really good, we dont know much but hopefully theyll elaborate and show improvements' rather than 'oh, they havent divulged every detail yet? then xxx, xxx and xx could be wrong.' Not to accuse anyone of this individually, i'm just getting a feel of it from the feedback I've read.

Apologies if any of this wall is unreasonable, I'm pretty tired and I'll read over it tomorrow.

EDIT: Removed a little chunk of stupidity on my part, I was for race changes and stuff, and I misread your post :)


Edited, Aug 8th 2009 5:57am by Dlaqev
#83 Aug 07 2009 at 3:54 PM Rating: Default
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asshat wrote:
I definitely don't want to see any seesaw elements. No unique abilities, no irreversible decisions, no major stat differences, and certainly no unique stories.


WTF! Lay off the crack. Of course they will exist. Go in your basement and play D&D with paper and a pencil. Your gonna love it! Seesaw elements of course will have to be implemented. To have everybody high level with no consequences of actions? You try designing end game content around that.

Your acting like a ******* preschooler designed this game. They expose 5% of the game and you come down on your high horse like a clown on his stick pony.
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#84 Aug 07 2009 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
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Well, maybe you should do that, because you're not making much sense to me. Like that last blurb, you're sick of your hume character, but you think it's a stupid idea to be able to change your race every once in a while? I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.

But faith in SE, sorry, is not something that I have a lot of. They have made a lot of disappointing decisions and produced some very lackluster titles recently. Actually it's been a few years since they really produced something that I would consider "together." Enough so that I feel that some things need to be spelled out to them plainly and loudly.

Final Fantasy XII, FFTA2, and yes, FFXI have all shown to me a lack of appreciating what it is that players really want. A lot of their older titles inspired us, and made us think of bigger and better games. Now they have to live up to that inspiration and move on to further test our imaginations. Frankly, however good FFXIV turns out to be, I can confidently claim to have a bigger and better idea for an MMO already written up at this very minute, one that would steamroll over FFXIV (honestly, I probably have three of them), and is already possible within the technological limitations presently available. I realize that this seems like a bold claim, but it just goes to show how the industry has fallen behind player expectations. It has been rehashing for so long that what is innovation by the industry standard has been a long time coming by player standards.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#85 Aug 07 2009 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
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WTF! Lay off the crack. Of course they will exist. Go in your basement and play D&D with paper and a pencil. Your gonna love it! Seesaw elements of course will have to be implemented. To have everybody high level with no consequences of actions? You try designing end game content around that.


Uh, there's no "of course." They're considering it. Perhaps you don't understand the difference in seesaw mechanics and other limitations. You can impose plenty of limitations on players and not resort to seesaw mechanics. The FFXI job system does this-- you can be any job, but only one at a time. People love that part of it. Now, when you get to merits, there are some seesaw mechanics. You have to choose between certain merits-- it's possible to change them, but it's not easy. People have pretty mixed feelings about this, but most would prefer if it were easier to reallocate merits. Then look at other games where you have to choose your class at the very beginning, and no change whatsoever-- that's a more severe example of a seesaw mechanic. You made a choice that you can never change and will dictate the rest of the game.

I can easily impose limitations that prevent people having access to everything without resorting to seesaws.

Quote:
Your acting like a @#%^ing preschooler designed this game. They expose 5% of the game and you come down on your high horse like a clown on his stick pony.


Uh huh. Well, in fairness, I have played every Final Fantasy title, and nearly every RPG that SE has released, so I feel I have a pretty good grasp of SE's ability to design a game.

I've already said that it could go either way and that I don't know enough, so I'm not sure what more you want. Faith? SE hasn't earned my faith. They had it for a while, but lately they haven't had the greatest win %.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#86 Aug 07 2009 at 5:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:

Uh huh. Well, in fairness, I have played every Final Fantasy title, and nearly every RPG that SE has released, so I feel I have a pretty good grasp of SE's ability to design a game.


Even the SaGa games? Even Mystic Quest? Even The Bouncer!?
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#87 Aug 07 2009 at 5:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:

I definitely don't want to see any seesaw elements. No unique abilities, no irreversible decisions, no major stat differences, and certainly no unique stories. Those elements can add a lot of realism and liveliness to a world. They also force players to miss out on content or play multiple characters. I'm not opposed to implementing solutions to some of these things, like letting players transform their character to a different race every once in a while. Seesaw is the opposite of fluid.


This.
#88 Aug 07 2009 at 5:41 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm in love with that armor, then again I seem to share whatever fetish the character designers have for lots and lots of belts and buckles.
#89 Aug 07 2009 at 5:52 PM Rating: Decent
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I wonder about The Armoury. In particular whether or not the armor changes with your weapon. If not I'm not sure how I feel about that, though it would also be pretty cool to see some FFX-2 job changing going on.

#90 Aug 07 2009 at 6:38 PM Rating: Decent
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TraumaFox wrote:
The whole thing with Aetheryte teleportation being somewhat restricted just sounds like "You must wait one Earth day before taking more Guildleves."


100% agree, I doubt your character dies from using telepoints to much.


I don't see why people are demanding new races....between the 5 races, you pretty much cross the stereotype spectrum. Especially for people who played XI, where you primarily had one character for your whole career. Here's an idea, pick a Elezen instead of a Miqo'te this time if you want something different.

As for the screenshot with the Mage looking at Aetheryte crystal....holy crap if thats in game i need a new PC bad...
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#91 Aug 07 2009 at 7:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't see why people are demanding new races....between the 5 races, you pretty much cross the stereotype spectrum.


Bolded for emphasis.

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It's bare minimum, at best.

#92 Aug 07 2009 at 8:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Even the SaGa games? Even Mystic Quest? Even The Bouncer!?

I liked Mystic Quest and Saga frontier.
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#93 Aug 07 2009 at 9:18 PM Rating: Good
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Well, as far as I am concerend, I just need to know a few things. And damnit SE, you are crucifying me with the wait. I want to know all the job classes and thier general function. I want to know the stats of all the races >>> clans >>> male vs female. I want to know the function of those stats, as in what effects these stats have or what types of abilities they enhance. How the battle (especially group battle) system works. And last but not least, will there be endgame events similar to FFXI. That last one could be a deal breaker for me. When I level a character there needs to be a goal I can reach beyond getting to "level cap". I had a lot of fun in endgame, to me that was when the game really started getting good. Well, that and of course the CoP Missions. Yes I do like new shineys, but I liked helping others, the sense of a job well accomplished with friends, and the adventure of it better.


P.S. PvP is not in my definition of endgame, so if that is SE's answer to endgame, I guess I'll go.......... cry? LOL, IDK, but whatever I do it won't be playing FFXIV.
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#94 Aug 08 2009 at 2:02 AM Rating: Decent
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I think perhaps I'm not clear on the see-saw elements myself because to me they dont seem bad, but what is it that you guys think sucks so much? It's a genuine question because from my understanding they've made it so it kicks in so that you cant activate all abilities from your jobs when they're a high level together (like FFXI has the same thing), despite the fact that you can activate some abilities based upon what jobs you've levelled before. Is this not the case? I thought by seesaw it just meant your other job skills are limited when you play one job, and vice versa?

If it's literally impossible to max out each job then I can understand the concern, but isnt that the point of job switches as opposed to just having a singular job picking a profession? Please feel free to correct me, theres been a lot of info recently so I may well have missed some
#95 Aug 08 2009 at 2:29 AM Rating: Good
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Seesaw can refer to two things in particular, but the general idea is that you get one thing at the expense of something else.

This is NOT akin to something like the jobs in FFXI where you can be both a level 75 SMN and a 75 DRG, but not both at the same time.

It's more akin to crafting or merits. You can merit one job completely at the expense of others. You can level one craft to 100, but the others cap at 60. Now, those are reversible and generally people are ok with them (though in the case of merits there are people who feel that they are not as easily reversible as they should be), but there are decisions that can't be reversed as well. The race you choose, for example, can't be changed without starting all over. It's a "point of no return" within the game. Thus, you'll have to start all over with a new character if you want to go a different route. It's pretty common in MMOs and generally people are tired of it.

The other kind of seesaw gets right down to character growth, and refers to losing points in one stat as you gain them in another. So something like STR +1, INT -1. This suffers from the same kind of problem when it's all linear. When it's not and you end up with gains like STR +2, INT -1, making it still -possible- to cap everything, well, it's just really really annoying.

A game needs limitations, but a seesaw mechanic is a poor way to implement limitations. Myself and a lot of other players want to see an Ability Point system where you can choose which abilities you'll have access to.
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#96 Aug 08 2009 at 7:37 AM Rating: Default
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412 posts
People are still assuming a little too much with the little information we were given.
SE stated before that you grow according to the weapon you use. If you focus on only one weapon, you will master everything it has to offer. If you decide to use two, you might only get to most of what those weapons have to offer. If you pick up 3 weapons, you can only master some of the skills they have to offer.

That is how I believe the system will be. If anything, it might be exactly like FF9 where you will have to set the abilities using the limited Ability Points at your disposal.
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#97 Aug 08 2009 at 8:03 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:

A game needs limitations, but a seesaw mechanic is a poor way to implement limitations. Myself and a lot of other players want to see an Ability Point system where you can choose which abilities you'll have access to.


This is what I would like to see.

I am not really too fond of the idea that now anyone can change jobs just by changing their weapon.

I know a lot of people are totally behind the "more solo play" idea, but I'm really not.

I'm sorry, I know that may draw some criticism, but it's how I feel.

I hear a lot of people voicing their concerns over "It's too hard to find a group in FFXI. It takes too long." (I played a white mage so I never had this problem; I can't understand how hard it must have been for some classes)...but is making more solo play the answer.

Problem: It takes too long to find a group.
Solution: Make finding a group easier.

Wait that's too hard, let's try something else.

Solution 2.0: Make grouping less required.
Problem: How.
Solution: Let everyone play every job and let them change at any time they want!

The idea of "you're a fierce warrior and you got hurt badly. No worries, now your a mage and you can heal yourself! But now you'll die if you try to fight that monster. No worries, you're a fierce warrior again!"

This also bothers me for another reason. Is everyone going to be "expected" to have skills unrelated to their class?

For example you want to join a group but you only mastered your magical attack skills. The group finds out you have no healing skills and no swordsman skills...you know "just in case" you might need them.
You get booted from the group so they can find someone who does.

Or, you're a white mage who has no magic attack skills. You're in a party and your group is doing okay and doesn't need healing too much. They decide they would rather have you switch to your black mage class and help kill faster, and then back to white mage (or FFXIV equivalent) to heal every other round.

But oops, you didn't raise your black mage (or whatever) magic skills. So they dump you to find someone who has.

Before you criticize this I just want to say I've played a lot of MMORPGs where people have been dumped from groups for a lot less...always under the claim that they could potentially slow them down.

If it's going to become "generally accepted" that everyone have multiple skills in multiple areas and they should change on the fly I'm going to be bothered.

When I play I want to play a white mage. When I join a group I want to do healing. I don't want to hear "Since our swordsman left can you switch to your non-existant swordsman class for the rest of the group? I have a white mage friend who is coming to join...oh...you don't have a swordsman class. I see...well...good-bye."

THIS is why I support an ability point idea. I don't really like the idea of dropping a stat/skill to raise another, but I like the idea of only putting so many points into your stats.

Maybe SE should just allow us to create a few characters on one account free of charge so we can experience the other classes at their full potential.

That's just how I feel.

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 12:05pm by Finaa

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 12:07pm by Finaa

EDIT: I think I'm done worrying about what will happen as a result of this job system that, to be honest, I (we) still really don't know much about. Speculating too much on it starts to get me worried when, in fact, I shouldn't be.

*Waits patiently for more information on the Armory*

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 12:17pm by Finaa
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#98 Aug 08 2009 at 8:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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I am very interested in this game and I want to see where it goes, and I know we don't have much information as of yet. Honestly the information they gave us is very little, but there are game shows coming up so hopefully we will have more information soon. This isn't a 'omg I hate it aready' post, I'm just pointing out a few things I've noticed that does bother me slightly...

3 Cities... a Desert, Port and Forest. Yeah seen this, its called Bastok, Windy and Sandy.

All the same races, and pretty much the same hair styles too... I hope they add another new race because I know it didn't take them too long to come up with this concept, and if not then that better be a really intense customization process.

Not gonna mention crystals... lol thats a staple in any FF game and expected.

Oh yeah, the quote by the Lalafell on the bottom of the 'Races' page was by Jajariku Nanariku. Hmm I swear there was another race that used rhyming names, yeah it was Tarutaru's.

A lot of the pictures on the Introduction page remind me of areas of seen before, such as Tahrongi, Kuftal or Maze, and Rolanberry.

Eh so it looks like FFXI with better graphics, but there are some differences such as the job system, the way we do quests and such. Still too little information and I'm not gonna give up on it until I know exactly what is going on. Although they better give us something such as new jobs or races... because as of right now its like a copy-cat game with higher end graphics.

Come on SE, give us something that amazes us! =D
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#99 Aug 08 2009 at 10:58 AM Rating: Good
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Oh and you can fish with axes.

How I log for fish?

C'mon, someone had to say it.
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#100 Aug 08 2009 at 11:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I am very interested in this game and I want to see where it goes, and I know we don't have much information as of yet. Honestly the information they gave us is very little, but there are game shows coming up so hopefully we will have more information soon. This isn't a 'omg I hate it aready' post, I'm just pointing out a few things I've noticed that does bother me slightly...

3 Cities... a Desert, Port and Forest. Yeah seen this, its called Bastok, Windy and Sandy.

All the same races, and pretty much the same hair styles too... I hope they add another new race because I know it didn't take them too long to come up with this concept, and if not then that better be a really intense customization process.

Not gonna mention crystals... lol thats a staple in any FF game and expected.

Oh yeah, the quote by the Lalafell on the bottom of the 'Races' page was by Jajariku Nanariku. Hmm I swear there was another race that used rhyming names, yeah it was Tarutaru's.

A lot of the pictures on the Introduction page remind me of areas of seen before, such as Tahrongi, Kuftal or Maze, and Rolanberry.

Eh so it looks like FFXI with better graphics, but there are some differences such as the job system, the way we do quests and such. Still too little information and I'm not gonna give up on it until I know exactly what is going on. Although they better give us something such as new jobs or races... because as of right now its like a copy-cat game with higher end graphics.

Come on SE, give us something that amazes us! =D


I couldn't agree more. Honestly, they said the story is going to be entirely different. There is no excuse for not make a new race, and that stupid statement about familiarity is just SE being stubborn and making excuses. If you want familiarity keep the 5 races and add a new one. Honestly aside from changing weapons on the fly rather than the mog house the armory system isn't entirely different. That Leeroy story on the website would sound the exact same in FFXI, they'd just have to say "he went back into town quickly and changed his job" instead of just switching than and there, big whoop. More convenient? Obviously. Different and new? Nope, sorry. He sees a fish in the water on his way back? Well tons of people in FFXI carried fishing poles around regardless, it's no different. His skill goes up when he fishes. Than he goes into town and crafts. News flash, you can craft anywhere in FFXI. The zones do looks awfully familiar, hopefully they're saving the good ones of beta and TGS and other major sources of advertising where it will hook more people.

I agree on the cities as well, but I think SE has potential to design them very innovative and jaw-dropping, so I can deal with a desert,port and forest city.
#101 Aug 08 2009 at 11:35 AM Rating: Default
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572 posts
Sloannn wrote:
Quote:
I am very interested in this game and I want to see where it goes, and I know we don't have much information as of yet. Honestly the information they gave us is very little, but there are game shows coming up so hopefully we will have more information soon. This isn't a 'omg I hate it aready' post, I'm just pointing out a few things I've noticed that does bother me slightly...

3 Cities... a Desert, Port and Forest. Yeah seen this, its called Bastok, Windy and Sandy.

All the same races, and pretty much the same hair styles too... I hope they add another new race because I know it didn't take them too long to come up with this concept, and if not then that better be a really intense customization process.

Not gonna mention crystals... lol thats a staple in any FF game and expected.

Oh yeah, the quote by the Lalafell on the bottom of the 'Races' page was by Jajariku Nanariku. Hmm I swear there was another race that used rhyming names, yeah it was Tarutaru's.

A lot of the pictures on the Introduction page remind me of areas of seen before, such as Tahrongi, Kuftal or Maze, and Rolanberry.

Eh so it looks like FFXI with better graphics, but there are some differences such as the job system, the way we do quests and such. Still too little information and I'm not gonna give up on it until I know exactly what is going on. Although they better give us something such as new jobs or races... because as of right now its like a copy-cat game with higher end graphics.

Come on SE, give us something that amazes us! =D


I couldn't agree more. Honestly, they said the story is going to be entirely different. There is no excuse for not make a new race, and that stupid statement about familiarity is just SE being stubborn and making excuses. If you want familiarity keep the 5 races and add a new one. Honestly aside from changing weapons on the fly rather than the mog house the armory system isn't entirely different. That Leeroy story on the website would sound the exact same in FFXI, they'd just have to say "he went back into town quickly and changed his job" instead of just switching than and there, big whoop. More convenient? Obviously. Different and new? Nope, sorry. He sees a fish in the water on his way back? Well tons of people in FFXI carried fishing poles around regardless, it's no different. His skill goes up when he fishes. Than he goes into town and crafts. News flash, you can craft anywhere in FFXI. The zones do looks awfully familiar, hopefully they're saving the good ones of beta and TGS and other major sources of advertising where it will hook more people.

I agree on the cities as well, but I think SE has potential to design them very innovative and jaw-dropping, so I can deal with a desert,port and forest city.


Maybe FFXIV is after all FFXI-2 ? ;D
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