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Mules Required?Follow

#1 Aug 06 2009 at 10:00 PM Rating: Sub-Default
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With the '4 disciplines' and the 'see-saw' mechanism of being able to learn skills (i.e: you cannot max out all your levels or skills on a single character)... combined with the 'degrading weapon resiliance' that are all mentioned on the official website...

It looks like you will have to create mules. One to be your blacksmith to repair your armor, one to be your gardner/miner to get the mats to repair your armour, and one that you can actually go out adventuring with. (2 or more if you want to fully explore all of the 'job' possibilities.

This is just speculation on the new information, but I really hope that this ISN'T what FFXIV comes down to.

I can't imagine many players wanting to specialize in blacksmithing only, and logging in each day on their main character just to repair people's gear and get gil. (again this is said in reference to the 'see-saw skill balance' that has been mentioned by the developers).

This would be throwing away the good things about FFXI, and keeping the bad.

(IE: no 'single character system' and promoting 'mules'.)
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#2 Aug 06 2009 at 10:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's getting harder and harder for me to believe that it's just a coincidence that the Chocobo in the official trailer is carrying all that junk.

Since SE will impliment a kind of instant teleportation system in FFXIV via Aetheryte, I see no reason why they wouldn't include summonable pack mules (ie Chocobos), especially considering how big a role gear will play.
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#3 Aug 06 2009 at 10:21 PM Rating: Default
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not the 'mule' I was referring to
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#4 Aug 06 2009 at 10:24 PM Rating: Decent
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If SE goes with the seesaw mechanic, that may just be the last straw for me. I'm sure it will be for a lot of other players as well. I have no interest in playing a game with such a pointlessly frustrating mechanic almost regardless of what else it has to offer.
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#5 Aug 06 2009 at 10:24 PM Rating: Good
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Shazaamemt wrote:
With the '4 disciplines' and the 'see-saw' mechanism of being able to learn skills (i.e: you cannot max out all your levels or skills on a single character)... combined with the 'degrading weapon resiliance' that are all mentioned on the official website...


I don't think you have that right. The Armoury System page gives the very strong impression that you'll be able to switch freely between classes and be a very separate individual each time. The biggest giveaway was on page three, "The Unhearalded Invitation".

Quote:
Without prior notice, some friends invite Leeroy to partake in an expedition to some nearby ruins. Upon joining their ranks, however, he observes that the other party members are seasoned warriors and accomplished mages all. Dismayed yet not given to despair, Leeroy sheaths his sword and takes up his well-worn staff, assuming the role of thaumaturge, his most advanced class. He bids farewell to the rodents and worms and races to meet his companions, basking in the confident light of his spellcasting abilities.


The emboldened part indicates a separate class and a difference in level. I'm pretty sure it will be very much like FFXI where you'll be able to switch freely between jobs, each one being its own thing.
#6 Aug 06 2009 at 10:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, if they do opt to go with the seesaw mechanic that they mentioned, then that could have one of probably two implications.

The first is that poor Leeroy is actually weakening his seasoned mage as he improves his swordsman.

The latter and potentially lesser of the two evils is that having a seasoned mage means that he won't be able to have a seasoned fighter, crafter, and gathering job at the same time.

Neither are very appealing prospects.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#7 Aug 07 2009 at 12:10 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:

I don't think you have that right. The Armoury System page gives the very strong impression that you'll be able to switch freely between classes and be a very separate individual each time. The biggest giveaway was on page three, "The Unhearalded Invitation".


I don't think you understood my references to the other interviews. 'Seesaw Mechanic'. The armoury system did nothing to reject the 'see-saw' mechanic.

I saw the ability to change disciplines when starting out, but not a guarantee that you will keep your stats across the board. Developer panels have talked about the see-saw mechanism.

Leeroy is a starting player, and it sounds great for a starting player. Just not so great for a long time character.

Point is: Leeroy isn't the guy who played for months, he is the guy who has played a few days. The hints of a 'see-saw' mechanism means you will have to make mules, and have multiple characters for every task (if you want to max out your character).

That is just a bad idea.

Edited, Aug 7th 2009 4:13am by Shazaamemt
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#8 Aug 07 2009 at 12:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Yep, they did this with crafting in FFXI, and it was kind of a nuisance.

Or maybe they're planning on doing a seesaw within each class group. i.e., raising your swordsman will weaken your archer, but not your mage, crafter, or gatherer.

Any way you do it, it prevents players from experiencing content without creating multiple characters, which for me is never a thumbs up.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#9 Aug 07 2009 at 2:26 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Or maybe they're planning on doing a seesaw within each class group. i.e., raising your swordsman will weaken your archer, but not your mage, crafter, or gatherer.


This is a good thought, and probably along the lines of what's being considered.

1) They've openly stated that regardless of See-saw mechanics or not, Inventory is going to play a large part and is being heavily looked at on the developing table...otherwise we have no information, so the "mule" argument is moot.

2) Why is it that no matter what a development company does in terms of groundbreaking mechanics or trial-and-error attempt to break the mold of the game genre, there's the naysayers that complain endlessly about what they are jumping to conclusions on.

Seriously...I'm so sick of the naysayers. Go naysay somewhere else...
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#10 Aug 07 2009 at 4:28 AM Rating: Decent
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TC the game is about playing with other ppl. While you have the option to do stuff on your own it is a MMO. You should NOT be able to do everything yourself. If you want to be the best fighter out there you cannot be the best blacksmith thus must rely on others (or rely on yourself via a second character).
#11 Aug 07 2009 at 7:02 AM Rating: Good
Some of us may have multiple characters anyway, even if it's just to enjoy the storylines of the different races and/or cities.

With FFXIV appearing to be more casual (based on the reference that you can play an hour a day and still get things accomplished), I'm hoping to get my wife to play the game with me. She was never one for fighting games, so I would have her do some gathering and crafting for me.
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#12 Aug 07 2009 at 8:35 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm at least glad they decided to reveal some information now and not make me wait another half a month and longer. I'm taking from this see-saw effect to perhaps either effect the individual jobs within each discipline. Another approach would be, they have 34 available different jobs (exaggerating but possible by this system) 12 jobs can be master level, 22 jobs can be intermediate. Something like that, Master level, once attained cant be see-sawed back to intermediate. At least something that allows some customization in it. Finally, and I see this being the most practical, You can master level either disciple of war, or disciple of magic. Not both, but you can advance the secondary high enough to be effective for certain game play elements. Then, either Disciple of Hand or Land can be mastered but not both of course, which leads you to 2 master leveled disciplines with some jobs in between.

Overall I think however, there are probably going to be a ridiculous amount of jobs available between the 4 disciples combined to where you couldn't master them all anyway. I noticed the name being gladiator on the official site, but yesterday something was said about fencer. Being a skilled swordmaster (with two swords) is something i'm looking forward to seeing. I prefer to specialize, but I also like to have fun with other jobs in spare time, like leveling up a warlock (lol, wonder what that entails) or an illusionist. I've never been big on crafting myself, so I see myself specializing in swordmaster and gathering skills, perhaps you can be the best fisherman out there, or the best at chopping some wood, but not so great at mining.

Another thing i'd like to mention would be stat allocation between these jobs, we don't necessarily go back to level 1 right? Do we keep similar hp/mp levels and stats, and they alter as we skill up as different jobs? What happens when i'm running around gathering some ore as a miner, my health is what and what if I get jumped randomly? I'd have no time to switch weapons and get pwned if i'm at like 10 health hehe.
#13 Aug 07 2009 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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i'm pretty sure the "see-saw" isn't 100% in game. Its something they are considering to do again, wouldnt seem to make sense tho

they want to go for a natural character progression.. its "unnatural" to say, sorry your Mage is maxxed, so you can't have a full blacksmith level to repair your staff. I'm sure you can get to "LVL75" mage and gardener without a see saw. i'm hoping (as the point of the "see-saw" quote said) that we will be able to max out the sub jobs too. since mage is a class all of its own, it would really suck if you maxxed out ur WHM or SMN or whatever, and you couldn't max out ur BLM/Sorcerer etc.

I have a feeling the see saw wont be as prevelant in FFXIV as it was in FFXI as far as crafting etc..
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