Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

Class Limitations?Follow

#1 Aug 07 2009 at 8:32 PM Rating: Excellent
**
264 posts
I was thinking about, how In my opinion, some degree of limitations needed to come into play so that we are all not uber gods. Now, I am not saying that people shouldn't be able to master everything. However, I would like to see some kind of limitation in the field. Someone else has suggested maybe setting a "main" at your "mog". So this way you don't have to worry about a seesaw effect. What you earn you keep, but it also keeps us all from being uber jobs. I do not have the perfect answer, and I am sure that there are those that want no restriction. You are entitled to your wrong opinion (lol, jk sorta).

Anyways, I just thought of not necssarily a solution, but a thought that came out of my ponderings. How will abilities and spells that are not a 1-time and instant function be handled? I mean things like protect, regen, bio, haste, last resort, boost, sharpshot...... you get the idea. What I am getting at, is if you use these things will/should they keep in place once you switch jobs?

Here is an example (ignore the ffxi jobs and abilities, as these are just for reference): I am a Ninja, I switch to bard >>> double march >>> switch to red mage >>> haste >>> switch to Samurai >>> Hasso >>> and back to Nin where I remain with all the benefits I just gave myself. As a ninja, I would probably be overjoyed. However, does this not seem a bit over-powered to be able to take all the benefits you want from other jobs and apply it to one? While this is not a level or seesaw limitation, it could act as a more natural limitation. It makes sense that you can only do certain things with certain jobs.

On th other hand I kind of love the idea, provided there are limitations. Like maybe if I use haste then switch back to nin, it is only half the speed, because I changed jobs. Again, I don't have a perfect solution. But let me ask this question, what is the point of having different weapons if they can all have the same benefits? If I am dragoon, but I can borrow all the powers of all other melee jobs (particularly drk, sam, and war) at the same time. Then everyone will be doing it, and there will be less job orignality. It would basically come down to a difference in your weapon only. So what then? I can be a swordsma, spearman, katana user, axeman, etc, etc., but other than that all the ,melee will kinda be clones of eachother. These are just examples. Maybe it will all work out better than I imagine, but if there are no limitations set in place at all........ I seriously doubt it.
____________________________
I also want double eyepatches, to increase my pirate bravado.
#2 Aug 07 2009 at 8:52 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
I'm still hopeful for an Ability Point system. It's a great way to allow customization with limitations. You have access to everything-- just not all at once.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#3 Aug 07 2009 at 8:59 PM Rating: Good
**
264 posts
Yea, I like the FFT/blue mage approach as well. For whatever reason I completely forgot about it. But, yes this could rather well.
____________________________
I also want double eyepatches, to increase my pirate bravado.
#4 Aug 07 2009 at 9:06 PM Rating: Good
***
1,822 posts
It specifically says on the FFXIV site:

Square Enix wrote:
Players may opt to specialize in one discipline, excelling in a single skill, or they may take a more general approach, making free use of the Armoury. The choice is yours.


The way I read this is; People can either choose to be a jack of all trades, or they can specialize and exceed in one class altogether. As they say, a jack of all trades is a master of none. I'm sure there will be advantages and disadvantages to both, in what way I'm not sure. But I doubt you will be able to be a uber-god-of-all.
____________________________
Long Live Vana Diel.
#5 Aug 07 2009 at 9:21 PM Rating: Good
**
264 posts
I read that part to Endless, and I sorta thought the same thing. But it is a little vague on the wording, so I am not sure. However, I hope you are right.
____________________________
I also want double eyepatches, to increase my pirate bravado.
#6 Aug 07 2009 at 9:32 PM Rating: Good
***
1,822 posts
AmsaimSutavarg wrote:
I read that part to Endless, and I sorta thought the same thing. But it is a little vague on the wording, so I am not sure. However, I hope you are right.


It will probably be to where, if I had to guess... You can change jobs, to do something or another if you are truly needed as that job. But you won't be as proficient as some one who has fully mastered it.

I imagine if you want to change some things around, you will be able to master any class as your main character, but perhaps you will only be the true MASTER of one class at a time? Something like that, again I'm not sure. But I highly doubt you'll be able to instantly, anywhere, at anytime, become the ultimate anything if you have "leveled" it up. That would take any sense of uniqueness right out of the game, which I highly doubt Square Enix wants.
____________________________
Long Live Vana Diel.
#7 Aug 07 2009 at 9:43 PM Rating: Good
**
264 posts
Amen to that brother. (best Hogan voice)
____________________________
I also want double eyepatches, to increase my pirate bravado.
#8 Aug 07 2009 at 9:54 PM Rating: Good
Repressed Memories
******
20,808 posts
People who create game systems unnecessarily easy to exploit often add unnecessarily annoying obstacles as boundaries. Not enough details are out to be truly worried, but I'm still troubled by much of the recent information released.

It should be simple enough to limit job changes to cities and outposts. That could create problems for gatherers, but being able to change any time, any place is obviously far too much freedom.
#9 Aug 07 2009 at 10:08 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Well theoretically, you can give people access to everything, but just never allow them to obtain everything. There are two ways to do that off the top of my head-- one is just an endless stream of content. Making it literally impossible to get everything just by the sheer virtue of there being too much, not enough time. Kind of like how in FFXI you could get every job to 75, but actually doing so takes an obscene amount of time. It only really became possible to have a few 75s because they ended up capping the game at 75. But if they keep releasing new abilities as even very dedicated players are reaching the "cap" of their current job, then that will certainly prevent people from becoming ubergods that have mastered everything.

The problem with this method, naturally, is that it still makes the people with ungodly amounts of time the best of the best. The person who plays 16 hours a day will never be caught up with. So for the most part, it's not a very good idea, at least imo.

The second is progress caps, which I actually like, but doubt that they'll do. With this, you can only accomplish so much in a certain period of time. For example, you could only master one or two abilities in a week (really it would probably be a certain number of AP). This also prevents people from having access to all abilities while allowing the developers to release new content well before people have exhausted older content. It also requires that players put a little strategy and thoughtfulness into what they want.

There's a lot more to such a system-- it's pretty complex, but I won't go into it because it's very unlikely that we'll see anything like it.

They may be planning to allow players to master one of each class group-- one fighter, one mage, one crafter, one gatherer.

Personally I'd be very happy with an AP system.

____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#10 Aug 07 2009 at 10:09 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,159 posts
People need to stop thinking. Honestly, it seems everyone is coming up with either their biggest dream or their most dreaded fear and then say THIS IS THE BEST THING EVAR!!! or WE ARE GOING TO DIE!!!! Deep breaths, calm. We still don't really know anything, despite the new info.

However, I suggest it would be reasonable (if not downright obvious) to assume we wont be able to change jobs on the fly. Wouldn't that be something though...would bring gear switching to a whole new level. Instead of being able to fast cast that utsusemi and land a paralyze you'd be able to take the hit, lay the paralyze, nuke, and heal just by switching your gear. You could be your own group! That actually sounds kind of fun now that I think about it...
#11 Aug 07 2009 at 10:23 PM Rating: Decent
*
215 posts
On the example in the website...'Keelroy' or whatever he was...changes jobs like 3 times...so I have a feeling the changing part isn't going to be restricted at all. If I had to bet everything will be very gear based. but who knows we'll see! THey left alot open and in the end we really can only speculate. But based on the website strong emphasis on changing your job on the fly, im betting no restriction in this reguard
#12 Aug 07 2009 at 10:28 PM Rating: Good
*
62 posts
Quote:
People need to stop thinking. Honestly, it seems everyone is coming up with either their biggest dream or their most dreaded fear and then say THIS IS THE BEST THING EVAR!!! or WE ARE GOING TO DIE!!!! Deep breaths, calm. We still don't really know anything, despite the new info.

However, I suggest it would be reasonable (if not downright obvious) to assume we wont be able to change jobs on the fly. Wouldn't that be something though...would bring gear switching to a whole new level. Instead of being able to fast cast that utsusemi and land a paralyze you'd be able to take the hit, lay the paralyze, nuke, and heal just by switching your gear. You could be your own group! That actually sounds kind of fun now that I think about it...


They said you could switch jobs on the fly, but nothing about it being able to be done in combat as of yet. So you may be a able some of that stuff in preparation but not during the actual fight.
#13 Aug 07 2009 at 10:33 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Quote:
People need to stop thinking.


Well, there's not much else to do for the time being. It's fun to speculate and discuss, otherwise I wouldn't be doing it. I mean, I have lots of other fun things to do at the moment, and yet I spend hours talking about the game. So you have to figure that I'm enjoying the **** out of it.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#14 Aug 07 2009 at 10:37 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
40 posts
This is what I am thinking. one day time in Eozera is 1 hr time rl. In one of the interviews they said (not going to quote but it was said some thing like this) that depending on what weapon you chose for the day determines how you will play. Could this be that there is a 1 hr (possibly less) cool down time to switch jobs? of course it might be less b/c they are aiming for casual gamers but I think this could make things a little better than just changing jobs when ever you want.
#15 Aug 07 2009 at 10:51 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,159 posts
Txndokie wrote:
They said you could switch jobs on the fly, but nothing about it being able to be done in combat as of yet. So you may be a able some of that stuff in preparation but not during the actual fight.


They did? I don't remember reading that. Could I get a quote please?

Not trying to be a jerk...just would like to see it.
#16 Aug 08 2009 at 12:36 AM Rating: Default
**
572 posts
EndlessJourney wrote:
It specifically says on the FFXIV site:

Square Enix wrote:
Players may opt to specialize in one discipline, excelling in a single skill, or they may take a more general approach, making free use of the Armoury. The choice is yours.


The way I read this is; People can either choose to be a jack of all trades, or they can specialize and exceed in one class altogether. As they say, a jack of all trades is a master of none. I'm sure there will be advantages and disadvantages to both, in what way I'm not sure. But I doubt you will be able to be a uber-god-of-all.


I think the system is like this;

1 If you solo then the jack of all trades game play is the way to go. The monsters and encounter are not that hard so you can manage by changing your job on the fly. There will probably be restriction on the the jack of all trades game play. For example you cannot get the top 2 or 3 abilities from each class (those you can only get if you specialize in that class) and secondly you might not have access to a merit system (if it’s implemented). So in the end this build is good enough for solo, but will be useless for raid content.

2 When it comes down to raid/endgame content where usually the jack of all trades builds are not an option I think then you are forced into specialized classes and in this case you need to discard your all-around build to properly play your specific roll in a raid.

3 For party size content I think you can go both ways, either have jack of all trades or specialized, both should work in a party setup.



Edited, Aug 8th 2009 4:45am by Maldavian
#17 Aug 08 2009 at 12:51 AM Rating: Decent
**
314 posts
My guess would be that you cant switch jobs mid battle. However, even if you could we cant assume that it will make people overpowered. In FFXI yeah it would be broken but we already know the new battle system will be much different. My only worry is that we may be only able to master one class. In FFXI you could completely pimp out (weapon merits and all) 2 melee and 2 mage jobs. A seesaw system obviously wouldnt allow for this. If they do go with the seesaw system hopefully it will be lifted once the player base has had more time to explore the content. When they raised the max amount of merits in each category a while back they said they planned on doing it eventually they just didnt want the players to get to hung up on making their characters so powerful. Maybe thats thier plan with the seesaw system too.
#18 Aug 08 2009 at 4:20 AM Rating: Decent
7 posts
My take on the whole job switching on the fly is that people are not looking or are looking way to far into it. SE is releasing bits and pieces that dont make sense if you dont have all the pieces. Well at least that is how i see it because it helps to build hype for the game and IMO its doing just that.


But however, and im just saying this could be a possibilty or something thrown out to create more discussions. Example, a Warrior with a greataxe is about to engage a target, which then switches to a staff to cast protect, then back to greataxe to engae target. But due to the fact that the warrior spends most of his time as a warrior he can't cast anything above protectI and cureI. Meaning that that would be fine for soloing or groups but when it come down to tough fights a hybrid prolly wont be as good as a dedicated player in that job. not saying it cant work but probably would take more effort and skill. Due to the fact that his weapon does not have enough kills or whatever they use to open up the next tier of spells.

QOUTE

"The way the articles refer to these "weapons" makes it seem that magical weapons will play much less of a physically offensive role, and rather boost the user's powers."

My thought is that even if you can switch on the fly you will not be able to equip a uber weapon that makes you god-like if you dont have enough time spent in that job. But you will be able to switch and heal and so on but not to the effect a dedicated caster would be able to or damage deal as much as a melee specific player.
#19 Aug 08 2009 at 5:13 AM Rating: Decent
***
1,146 posts
A lot of years a go i played an online game called Fung Wan Online, it was my first online game i played with a lot of people online.

I know they had a system based on the weapons you use, and you gained skilled trough the levels of your weaponskill.
For example if you took h2h to lvl 50 you gained a buff that give 10% def, while other gives other buffs or special attacks.

If they give the option to let us be a jack of all trades then skills most give something we can use when we equip other weapons aswell?
#20 Aug 08 2009 at 5:21 AM Rating: Decent
*
58 posts
The restriction will probably be inventory space. If you change jobs by just changing your weapon you wouldn't bd very effective if you didn't change the rest of your gear also. The question is how many sets of gear can you carry at one time.
#21 Aug 08 2009 at 5:41 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,122 posts
I hope it's still possible to have say, dark knights and paladins where we don't have to take out a wand mid battle to cast a spell.
#22 Aug 08 2009 at 5:43 AM Rating: Decent
**
456 posts
Quote:
They said you could switch jobs on the fly, but nothing about it being able to be done in combat as of yet. So you may be a able some of that stuff in preparation but not during the actual fight.


Quote:
They did? I don't remember reading that. Could I get a quote please?

Not trying to be a jerk...just would like to see it.


Well off of here, i'll quote it. http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=19163

Quote:
The developers have stated that battles will occur in realtime, but will not focus on fast-paced action and timing. Instead, strategy will play a much larger role. It seems the Armoury system will play into this, allowing players to actively change jobs on the fly, and adapt to many different situations.


#23 Aug 08 2009 at 6:09 AM Rating: Good
**
370 posts
Being able to be a full strength fighter and a full strength healer on the fly sounds like a terrible idea. I am hoping SE places some serious restrictions on this. SE said that changing weapons changes your "job" and that you can do that on the fly. Hopefully there are other things that you can't change on the fly. If SE has a way to adjust stats that can only be accessed in town that would solve it. That way you can't have a full strength fight AND a full strength healer. You can only get a fighter with only a few mp to use on magic or a caster with not much strength to fight with or you can choose to make a bluemage.
____________________________
Thaumaturge/Archer/Marauder
http://xivpads.viion.co.uk/?id=1847776
Moogle Inc linkshell
http://www.moogleinc.com
Stand in front of me fool...I am a Thaumaturge
#24 Aug 08 2009 at 6:18 AM Rating: Excellent
Sage
*
131 posts
Seems as though people are reading bits and pieces but not looking at everying

"FinalFantasyxiv.com" wrote:
Leeroy sheathes his sword and takes up his well-worn staff, assuming the role of a thaumaturge, his most advaced class


So there could really be limitations as to what you are able to master. Could very well be like the crafting system in FFXI. You can master one class and be a jack of all trades in the others. We shall wait and see though because that is not a definite answer just speculation on my behalf to help fuel the fire!
#25 Aug 08 2009 at 6:27 AM Rating: Good
***
1,146 posts
Well question is ofcourse what would the advantages and disadvantages be and are we able to lower weaponskills if we level a character wrong?

Are we getting some kind of treeform skills like wow has their talent system?
Where if you got with 1 job you get the highest tier talents in this case weaponskills/spells
Or you go for a couple of weaponskills and get some of the lower weaponskills/spells which make you special?
#26 Aug 08 2009 at 6:39 AM Rating: Good
Sage
*
103 posts
At higher levels (max) they said they are considering making it a seesaw effect or allowing you to become a master of all. Inventory will become a debilitating factor, as I'm sure changing armor and weapon will too. Likely you will not be able to switch on the fly during battle, but who knows

...maybe wearing a mesh of armaments from various classes will allow you to have various traits and abilities that you are capable of doing. They also mentioned armor plays a role too in the progression of your character. So I'm assuming if you have ranged leveled to x, and fighter leveled to x and mage leveled to x you will be able to use weapon, then maybe level based equipment with that job listed to unlock (lv 10 Slops: Tharturmage(sp?):Unlocks all spells of lv 10 Tharturmage) Then at the end of the battle you can change your main class path by switching weapons, and adjust armor throughout battle and end of battle.

I think we will see things like combat traits with magic abilities if you wear an assortment of armors, and use different weapons. Like someone previously mentioned as well depending on how high you have x sorcery path leveled depends on what you can reliably cast, shoot, and strike.

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 10:44am by haife
#27 Aug 08 2009 at 7:16 AM Rating: Excellent
40 posts
honestly i think a seesaw system is a bad idea. If i want to master a different class i don't want to have to make another character... that was one of the greatest things about ffxi. I am sure they can figure out a way to balance the system without limiting what you can do with one character.
#28 Aug 08 2009 at 7:18 AM Rating: Default
22 posts
I wasn't too far with my game mechanics speculation (only replace materias with weapons and armors). Maybe the limitations will work that way ...

FFXIV char growth mechanics

You will be limited, but you can create different character profiles that you can switch from in your mog house.

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 11:20am by ChinookFFXIV
____________________________
RIP
Chinook
2004-2006
Ifrit server
Mithra THF75 BLM75 RDM75

FFXIV linkshell:
www.curraheels.com

#29 Aug 08 2009 at 7:32 AM Rating: Good
Sage
*
103 posts
I think in terms of seesaw is you will not be able to prance around doing DOOMTHAGA XXIV like a dedicated mage practictioner but you won't be weak. I see it like merits, you can be great at dagger with merits, and Great Katana with merits, but you can't be the super best at sword or H2H, but you're definately good at it when youre on the corresponding job.

I do not think you will have to level an entirely different character as they stated you can switch, but even with merits you have to make a pretty solid choice, at least your merits are wasted if you tuck it into something you want to change later you have to reobtain those merits. Its safe to assume specialty classes will outperform a hybrid in their speciality which is only fair.
#30 Aug 08 2009 at 8:24 PM Rating: Decent
*
237 posts
AmsaimSutavarg wrote:
I was thinking about, how In my opinion, some degree of limitations needed to come into play so that we are all not uber gods. Now, I am not saying that people shouldn't be able to master everything. However, I would like to see some kind of limitation in the field. Someone else has suggested maybe setting a "main" at your "mog". So this way you don't have to worry about a seesaw effect. What you earn you keep, but it also keeps us all from being uber jobs. I do not have the perfect answer, and I am sure that there are those that want no restriction. You are entitled to your wrong opinion (lol, jk sorta).

Anyways, I just thought of not necssarily a solution, but a thought that came out of my ponderings. How will abilities and spells that are not a 1-time and instant function be handled? I mean things like protect, regen, bio, haste, last resort, boost, sharpshot...... you get the idea. What I am getting at, is if you use these things will/should they keep in place once you switch jobs?

Here is an example (ignore the ffxi jobs and abilities, as these are just for reference): I am a Ninja, I switch to bard >>> double march >>> switch to red mage >>> haste >>> switch to Samurai >>> Hasso >>> and back to Nin where I remain with all the benefits I just gave myself. As a ninja, I would probably be overjoyed. However, does this not seem a bit over-powered to be able to take all the benefits you want from other jobs and apply it to one? While this is not a level or seesaw limitation, it could act as a more natural limitation. It makes sense that you can only do certain things with certain jobs.

On th other hand I kind of love the idea, provided there are limitations. Like maybe if I use haste then switch back to nin, it is only half the speed, because I changed jobs. Again, I don't have a perfect solution. But let me ask this question, what is the point of having different weapons if they can all have the same benefits? If I am dragoon, but I can borrow all the powers of all other melee jobs (particularly drk, sam, and war) at the same time. Then everyone will be doing it, and there will be less job orignality. It would basically come down to a difference in your weapon only. So what then? I can be a swordsma, spearman, katana user, axeman, etc, etc., but other than that all the ,melee will kinda be clones of each other. These are just examples. Maybe it will all work out better than I imagine, but if there are no limitations set in place at all........ I seriously doubt it.


You weren't able to do that in ffxi so it isn't likely to happen in ffxiv. Also I'm sure it'd be too much trouble for the melee ***** types to go out of their raise support/mage attributes just for the sake of buffing ones self when its less trouble to just team up with someone who could cast those buffs on you (outside of hasso) otherwise you'll be stopping every few minutes to recast buffs.

The one thign I could see SE doing to counter-act this practice outside of just removing buffs after a job change is by just making the durations really low for buffs just so you'd have to rely on someone who specializes at a job that casts these buffs on you.
#31 Aug 08 2009 at 11:47 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,146 posts
Well i think we all can agree that it looks very nice and I think there will be limitations and even without limitations it would still be good.
The big question is what use is it to get for example different jobs, if you can keep the buffs and all that kind of things it would really rock.

But seeing how gearswitching is in ffxi i hope they do it better in ffxi and what about jobchanging we saw leeroy could easaly change jobs but i wonder if he can switch jobs in fight and wonder if there are limitations.
Maybe you can switch jobs but you either loose tp like you do now if you switch weapons which looks pretty obvious to me.
Or you can only change job once a minute so you can't macro things like switch job get buff, switch job get other buff and go back to your main job.

An other thing i wonder about is what lvl would be max if the game comes out. But think it will take a while till we have info about it as we would aswell need info about the weaponskills then.

And what is even more important we can choose out of 4 disciplines and to be more powerfull/better we should stick to 1 discipline so would this mean that if we want to craft the best things in game we need 1 character which goes max in the hand discipline?
#32 Aug 09 2009 at 7:40 AM Rating: Decent
**
821 posts
Well as I played several MMOs I guess there is a really easy solution to that. I personally would enjoy if I could "master" all Skills. That alone wouldn't make you UBER.

First: You should not be able to change "skills" In-Fight. Changing weapons that correspond to the same Job k, or Armor, but not switching to other Skills.

Second: Buffs you can give yourself with another Job just get erased when you switch skills. Easy to do, WoW has the same effect regarding you being in a Raid and getting Groupbuffs, once you leave the Raid your buffs are instantly erased.

Third: If you decide to do some of that SE mentioned "jack of all trades", I guess thats done by mixing Weapons that define your main skill with Armory and Accesories that mix with other skills to get some Abilities of different Skills, but none of them get the best Abilities to use.

No one would be uber at one time, the only difference would be the versatility of some players vs others who got only 1 job mastered in comparison to someone who got several jobs mastered and can switch to whatever is needed. I personally hope severls jobs can be mastered, as I like to play different styles to the max and not just if I feel I can play solo better that way.
#33 Aug 09 2009 at 8:10 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
285 posts
maybe it'll end up being like UO, where if you didnt keep using a skill its proficiency would decrease.
____________________________
Shaani - Cait sith
75 Samurai
Other crap that isnt 75

Morente wrote:

PUP is like Albert Einstein. Everyone thinks it's retarded until someone shows it's true potential.
#34 Aug 09 2009 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
**
264 posts
Hmmm........ I really hope not. DoT on skills and abilities....nah, rather have a see-saw if I had a choice.
____________________________
I also want double eyepatches, to increase my pirate bravado.
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 19 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (19)