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HP / MP ???Follow

#1 Aug 08 2009 at 7:19 PM Rating: Good
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Seeing as how our abilities are to be tied to which weapon we use, do we expect for our HP to vary depending on which weapon we equip and our skill in that weapon? It seems a little strange for our HP to go up or down based on what kind of weapon we equip. Could it be that, perhaps, our characters themselves will level to some extent (i.e.,our HP)? It has been said that our characters won't "level," but some things just seem to be inherently tied to a "level."

What about MP? For me at least, it makes sense for this to rise as our ability in, say, staffs rises.

What role does equipment other than our weapon play?
#2 Aug 08 2009 at 7:30 PM Rating: Good
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They did say that there would be character "growth" no idea what it means but I take it as there will be something that will permanently change our HP and MP to a higher base stat. now I do believe that Armor/Clothing and weapons will have more stats attached to them then most other MMO's like higher health rating, MP rating and so forth.

Edit: I just remembered that when I played World of Warcraft for a little bit I noticed that not having good armor did effect health and stats so it's not something unheard of to have equipment take and give HP/MP on our base stat.

Edited, Aug 8th 2009 10:31pm by Averrinicus
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#3 Aug 08 2009 at 8:07 PM Rating: Default
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My guess is that characters will have levels but all of our class/abilities/stats will be based on weapons and gear.
#4 Aug 08 2009 at 8:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Am I the only one that still pictures something like FFX, the sphere grid thingy... you know, with major tweaks and such to make it "all new" but still similar to FFX?
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#5 Aug 08 2009 at 8:40 PM Rating: Good
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132 posts
I personally would love a sphere grid system but am a little skeptical. The "growth" system may very well be a sphere grid but that still tends to draw the characters into "leveling" to advance which may or may not be the direction the game is heading in. This also raises the problem of searching for people with enough abilities to go out on missions with you since the level criteria is no longer apparent.
#6 Aug 08 2009 at 9:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I thought someone mentioned that taking hits will increase your hitpoints?
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#7 Aug 08 2009 at 9:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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We don't know for certain if skills/stats are attached to our weapons yet. We only know that switching weapons = switching classes. It will be hard to speculate exactly what is going to happen right now with the information we have. Will we see stuff like

Trident
ATT 24 Delay 250
Ability Jump 0/20(amount of times it takes to learn it)
Stat Boost HP+20 0/15

If this is the case expect ingame to be brutal if abilities are attached to weapons. Think of something along the lines of Kirin Osode, everyone wanted it but not that many had it for the first couple years but it has that ability that everyone wants.

Super Mail
Def 122
Ability Ultima 0/200
Stat All stats(str, int, mnd etc) +7 0/100

Just something to think about really.
#8 Aug 08 2009 at 9:44 PM Rating: Good
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132 posts
Parade wrote:
We don't know for certain if skills/stats are attached to our weapons yet. We only know that switching weapons = switching classes. It will be hard to speculate exactly what is going to happen right now with the information we have. Will we see stuff like

Trident
ATT 24 Delay 250
Ability Jump 0/20(amount of times it takes to learn it)
Stat Boost HP+20 0/15

If this is the case expect ingame to be brutal if abilities are attached to weapons. Think of something along the lines of Kirin Osode, everyone wanted it but not that many had it for the first couple years but it has that ability that everyone wants.

Super Mail
Def 122
Ability Ultima 0/200
Stat All stats(str, int, mnd etc) +7 0/100

Just something to think about really.


I know you said it is uncertain whether this can happen but just realised something when I read this. Should you solo, you would take longer to level than in a party (at least that is what it probably is) then you would have more time to equip more weapons to learn more abilities.

Just thought that means people would want to solo, but of course this is just speculation. However if the abilites/stats are equiped to a type of weapon/armour (regardless of actual item) this could very well be a way to increase stats like hp/mp off of gear like shields, body armour etc.
#9 Aug 08 2009 at 11:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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My best guess based on what they've said so far is something like this:

Your character technically doesn't level, but increases its ability to equip better gear. For instance, doing certain actions long enough unlocks the ability to equip level 8 body pieces. These have improved stats on them, including higher HP/MP than level 7 gear.

You might also be able to permanently upgrade certain stats on your character, but my impression at this early stage is that things like this are entirely tied to your gear.
#10 Aug 09 2009 at 8:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a sphere grid or a license chart (or whatever it was called in FFXII).

With FFXI aside, their last two games used new methods of developing you characters. I would almost expect FFXIV to use something new and different.

I would imagine to HP/MP doesn't grow with levels, but rather grows how you want it to...by moving along a sphere-grid type thing.
This could also apply to licenses to use new weapons and armor.

If you remember in FFXII you couldn't equip certain weapons and armor until you got a license for it. In this game, weapons and armor seem to be tantamount to skill learning.

Think about it, in other games you usually are restricted to equipping weapons by one and/or two things.
1.) Level (which FFXIV will lack)
2.) Stats

Ruling levels out, here is why I think it can't be stats either.
Say we're allowed to distribute stats. When do we distribute them? When do get more stats?
In most games, it's when you level up. But there are no levels in this game.
So how would we raise stats? Perhaps a sphere-grid/license system.
But if weapons raise our stats, weapons can't really depend on those same stats to be equipped.

So here is my theory...tying everything together.

There will be a type of license system like in FFXII that also incoorporates HP/MP. To gain "points" to advance along the grid you complete guildleve. Only by doing guildleve can you unlock the ability to wield a new weapon!

Guildleve --> license points --> ability to weild new weapons and wear new armor --> ability to learn new skills.

Remember how there are multiple leves to choose from. Perhaps different leves correspond to different weapon types.

If you want the ability to wield a new sword you do that leve. If you want the ability to wield a new staff then you do that leve. There may not be any limit or restrictions on which leve you can do (other than completing the one that came before it).

Meaning, a person can't just pick up any staff to use it. They need to complete the corresponding guildleve and obtain a license first.

EDIT: That quickly went off the topic of MP/HP, but the idea just came to me and I wanted to share it.

Edited, Aug 9th 2009 12:26pm by Finaa
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#11 Aug 09 2009 at 9:08 AM Rating: Good
13 posts
I really hope that this time around we're able to have a few thousand HP and MP closer to 999. Something like 6000-ish HP and 600-700 MP on the best geared characters.
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#12 Aug 09 2009 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
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for the ffx sphere grid thing, what about :
-gain "skill" to go farther in the sphere of the weapon you use
-use guildleve to unlock the ability you found(the galkan one to unlock a str, taru to unlock int, etc...)


for hp/mp, can see 2 things with that : either "hp/mp guildleve", and/or latent bonus from unlocking a weapon's "sphere" ability....

if you want basic character growth, maybe a "general" sphere for the character with hp/mp/stats

you'd get either :
-just hp/mp you unlocked for the weapon sphere
-just general sphere hp/mp
-general sphere hp/mp+hp/mp unlocked from weapon's sphere
-general hp/mp+lattent hp/mp from unlocking weapon's sphere ability

either way, this could work
#13 Aug 09 2009 at 10:58 AM Rating: Excellent
3 posts
(pure speculation)

I really hope the Hp/Mp is connected to how many abilities you know. An example would be like Discipline of the Land (gatherer) give 5 hp/5 mp permanently.
Discipline of the Hand (crafter) would probably give the same as gatherer 5hp/5mp
Discipline of Magic (Mages/Magic) 2 hp/8 mp
Discipline of War (Archer/Warrior) 9 hp/ 1mp or 8hp/ 2mp

So when you learn abilities it would unlock being able to equip others of greater strength. They could then allow people to learn whatever just tie it to how much total HP or MP you have. This way even if someone gathers and crafts a lot they wouldn't be a total waste of space in a fight and could equip items to learn abilities.

Parade's idea of using an ability a certain amount of time to learn a skill seems promising and hopefully this be the true way almost like Final Fantasy Tactics Advance style (where they use AP instead of just a set amount of Quests or Fights).

Edited, Aug 9th 2009 2:59pm by Yoppie
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#14 Aug 09 2009 at 1:03 PM Rating: Good
8 posts
I'm hoping for more of a skill system, similar to FFXI. The more you use the skill, the more it goes up. In FFXIV's skill system, hp and mp would be considered skills and every time you take damage or use mp, your skill might increase. For every skill point, lets say you get 5 hp or mp. Now, since your level won't be capping your skill level, I think armor will not only act as the cap for your hp/mp, but it will also allows you to utilize your HP/MP skills on your character.

For instance, lets say you just started out. You have no armor on and 40 hp due to your VIT stat. Your HP stat is at 0 and can't rise without a piece of armor to raise the cap. You obtain a brass harness with +5 HP skill on it, which allows you to level your HP skill to level 5. You equip it and go to grind on some monsters outside the city, you take damage which levels your HP skill. Every time your HP skill levels, you gain 5 more HP. You cap your HP skill to the level your armor allows(level 5) which gives a total of 25 HP, giving you 65 HP total.

Now, you do a couple missions and get a Scale Mail with +10 HP skill on it. You equip it and your HP skill is now at 5/10. You level it to 10/10. You now have 90 HP with the Scale Mail equipped. But if you switch back to your brass harness, you will go back to 65 HP since with that armor only allows the use of 5 of your HP skill.

Basically, its just like FFXI's skill system but all levels of growth are based off of skills. Armor will be the judge of how high we can level them and to what extent we can currently use.
#15 Aug 10 2009 at 4:23 AM Rating: Decent
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237 posts
I'm guessing armor and weapons will likely be focused on boosting base stats. Every race and maybe even gender will have various attributes that will likely have their own goals of optimization. Melee oriented armor will prolly vary in how much defense vs. HP while the weapons will vary in damage vs. dexterity. Mage oriented gear could armor would vary in MP vs. defense and weapons can vary in magic potency vs. magic accuracy.

I only base this on what I would consider to promote more variety with play styles and options. They can focus on balancing out their races/genders base traits or they can focus on complimenting the traits that increases their offensive damage dealing traits and ignore their defensive traits.

I'm not so sure what to make of abilities, I've always had ffix's means of learning abilities and spells in the back of my mind for this area.
#16 Aug 10 2009 at 5:08 AM Rating: Decent
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331 posts
Does this mean that low level players can party with higher levels and both gain experience....
or would that be abused, like having a power level, but both in same party, killing easy prey mobs to the higher level character?
#17 Aug 10 2009 at 6:42 AM Rating: Decent
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423 posts
I don't think you could PL people. It would definatly be abused. There will probably be a "skill level" or something that is technically not a level but if you aren't in the bracket you get cutoff

As for HP/MP. Yes absolutely and probably to a big extent based on the gear. It would be messed up to have the same hp if you leveled 1 "job"(or item whatever you prefer) to max and then go back to a new weapon/job and you are completely overpowered because of the stats you carry.

I believe they are doing this to eliminate the mogs... which were cool but i personally hated. I found it slow, tedious and very boring to have to run somewhere(mid game life it was back to a major city) just to change your job to suite the party.

Just my 2 Cents :D
#18 Aug 10 2009 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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237 posts
The purpose of getting rid of levels is to get rid of the wall that separates players and to focus on the tasks at hand and complimenting individual play styles rather than pigeon-holing every melee/mage into one style of play. Thats another reason to get rid of "jobs",to prevent pigeon holing.

Edited, Aug 11th 2009 12:50am by baltz
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