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Social Responsibility: An open letter to Square EnixFollow

#302 Aug 19 2009 at 1:38 PM Rating: Default
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Well in this thread we talked a bit about social responsibility concerning end game content and events that take a lot of time.

Ok, I know we haven’t seen any endgame, but from what I can tell, this game will most defiantly have a hardcore endgame element similar to FFXI. I know I don't have any proof yet, but seeing the game look and function extremely similar to FFXI I will conclude that the endgame "hardcore" element will be present in FFXIV. The ultimate proof will come when the game goes retail, but from what I have seen so far it is there. The level up also is present, although no one knows how long it takes to level a weapon to max level, but you had skill = exp point and you had level = level. No change at all and all the talk about no leveling was basically not true.


Edited, Aug 19th 2009 5:46pm by Maldavian
#303 Aug 19 2009 at 11:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Furthermore:

May I simply state the irony of being criticized for a position about social responsibility when we are discussing a game centered around self elected military service and vigilantism. We can pay $13 a month to pick up arms willingly for Bastok and San d'Oria but we can't ask a video game company to be ethical in the creation of its products?

Curious paradox.


And that is the last time I will ever read a post by KPbeta.

A thesaurus is not an ample substitute for intelligence. Trying to sound smart and being intelligent are 2 different things, and everyone can tell the difference.
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#304 Aug 21 2009 at 6:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Shazaamemt wrote:
Quote:
Furthermore:

May I simply state the irony of being criticized for a position about social responsibility when we are discussing a game centered around self elected military service and vigilantism. We can pay $13 a month to pick up arms willingly for Bastok and San d'Oria but we can't ask a video game company to be ethical in the creation of its products?

Curious paradox.


And that is the last time I will ever read a post by KPbeta.

A thesaurus is not an ample substitute for intelligence. Trying to sound smart and being intelligent are 2 different things, and everyone can tell the difference.


...what?

The silly thing is that I didn't use a thesaurus. I used a dictionary to find out how to spell "vigilantism." I don't know what book you should consult, but there's a phrase we have in English called "Trying to hard." I suggest you define it for your own purposes.

Edited, Aug 21st 2009 10:44am by KPBeta
#305 Aug 21 2009 at 7:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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the main point was if you think hundreds (and thats generous) of people is valid to talk for millions of people then your professor, degree, and textbook all need to be retested.


I hate statistics, but one thing i remember is that a sample size only needs to be >30 to make decent approximations. (reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size#Extension_to_other_cases )

But like i said, i hate statistics, so i might be off.

Anyway, been away too long to catch up with the rest of this thread. I'll just state that I have a job, a wife and a house to maintain. If FFXIV requires too much time, i will not play. I am sure that i represent a catagory of gamer too and not an isolated individual. The size of this catagory, who knows. If SE is fine with losing that catagory, then I hope they are fine with sticking to old success numbers (<500,000, and a decent portion of that being syphoned away from FFXI) because they are sticking with an old outdated model.
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#306 Aug 21 2009 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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KacesofCaitsith wrote:
I hate statistics, but one thing i remember is that a sample size only needs to be >30 to make decent approximations.

30 usually is fine if they are unbiased samples.
"Friends of someone" or even "someone talked to" are not unbiased samples.
#307 Aug 21 2009 at 8:58 PM Rating: Decent
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please tell me when you're not absolving an individual of guilt, in whatever degree, when you level accusations of irresponsibility at Square Enix for the actions of a mere individual.


Given that my original post is, indeed, only discussing the organization and not the individual I would therefore myself only discuss one party, and, their guilt. You falsely invoke a logical fallacy to say that my pointed finger at one party is an absolving wave of the hand for the other. This is not the case. The individual was simply not the question of my original post.

We live in a world of action and reaction. The individual responds to catalysts. The response and the catalyst are two pieces to a whole. I have chosen to focus and address the catalyst. That is a legitimate target for scrutiny given that the catalyst would indeed by the initiator for a random sequence of events.

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—How is attributing partial blame to Square Enix for their 'flawed system' not absolution, in any degree, of an individual's culpability for what you are claiming is irresponsibility?

The OP addressed the issue of unhealthy gaming via a game that requires copious amounts of one's time. The attack is directed at the timesink design and the unhealthy playtime and lifestyle changes that result as consequence. Directing my attention to individual responsibility and accusing me of absolving guilt mandates that I answer a question about individuals acting responsibly as though there is choice in the matter. The OP does not imply this. Instead I imply (and more or less argue) that to engage in FFXI [endgame] is inherently unhealthy activity because it has been irresponsibly designed by SE.

So that we are clear, I have never explicitly argued that the individual is not completely free of guilt. However, they are not solely culpable either.

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—When have I ever suggested you attributed full accountability to Square Enix, when my point has been only that Square Enix is not accountable, at all, in opposition of your view that Square Enix is partially accountable?

Then I am mistaken.

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—When are you going to define "responsibility", particularly "social responsibility"?

Social responsibility is the obligation of a collective actor (ie corporations) to remain cognizant of society's welfare and when necessary, to act in a way that enhances that welfare, protects that welfare, or makes no impact on that welfare.

Or: That a collective actor—whose function is not to be corrosive to society—is not corrosive to society's general welfare by their actions. That is social responsibility.

Perhaps I can construct a better definition, but I am satisfied with both for the time being. Can you reject either of these? The act of defining requires one to enter into an epistemological morass. If you are asking the question, chances are, the listener isn't defining anything simple.

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—Why are MMOs "flawed systems"?

I was referring to FFXI as a system and calling FFXI flawed. I was not calling MMORPGs, as a whole, flawed. If the post says that (and reading it, it does not appear to), the words were simply imprecise.

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—What is the "political, social, and cultural context" of said system?

In a word: Much. Many elements intersect in Final Fantasy XI that build the environment. This is the case for all other things as well.

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Bear in mind that I'm under no obligation to justify myself, yet. As the creator of your claims, I'm sure you're intelligent enough to realize where the burden of evidence lies first

Surely. Though, perhaps our differences are not in the claim but in the foundation. It appears to me our philosophies for life are antithetical.

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I'll worry about justifying myself as soon as I see a modicum of evidential support regarding your own position


Does a position that calls for caring from a contributing and significant party require "evidential support?" You're asking me to essentially prove God here.

We have seen the potentially destructive capabilities of video games. This is not up for debate. We have seen the time-consuming nature of FFXI. This is not up for debate—even less so because I am only operating off the testimonies of other current players, not myself. Do I need to therefore need to "prove" a call to SE to design a game that is more forgiving on irresponsible players? Can I do that?

I am making a philanthropic request for a company to narrow the margins for irresponsible play. This is a thread that recognizes gamers as human beings who can fail because external catalysts lead them to do so. If we reform or reduce these catalysts, fewer human beings are negatively impacted. We cannot hope to completely eliminate the catalysts, only to reduce them as I've stated. Therefore, I'm simply asking SE to make a game that has as little a chance to harm people as possible.

I return to my original point: That this is a debate of philosophies. I am arguing humanism. I am arguing that our strife should not be another's dollar or decision. If you can't agree with that I will admit to you now I am not willing to debate that point and I must agree to melancholically disagree.



Edited, Aug 22nd 2009 1:00am by KPBeta
#308 Aug 22 2009 at 8:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Again, if it's just your opinion, say so. But do not allude to some factual reality wherein ideal societies shelter an interconnected, universal responsibility between every member unless you're going to be forthcoming with the justification for your delightfully puerile rape of utilitarianism.


Ever hear of a thing called social welfare? The kinds of programs successful, developed, first-world countries have, that human-rights barren, destitute, third-world countries lack? I think there's a correlation there. Just my opinion, maybe.

The utilitarianism is evident and I've already provided several examples and analogies. If you're too blind to see it, then I don't think your blindness will be cured if I just explain it harder. Especially so if you're going to be actively resistant, which I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are.
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#309 Aug 29 2009 at 10:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Bump to first page as I think its important. :)
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