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Thinking 5 years down the road...Follow

#1 Aug 10 2009 at 5:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Of course everything is speculation at this point, but I felt this would make for an interesting discussion.

In FFXI we have multiple jobs to level, thus old guys like me that have been in FFXI for 5 years or more just have more and more jobs 75. We vets see newbies when in the dunes, and honestly are marginally stronger than them (merits, random rex gear like salvage/low level quest/misc, funds to buy better gear), but not by much.

In other games long-time players have maxed out a character, moved on to a new one, and kept going so by the 5 year mark they have a small militia of maxed out characters, thus seeing newbies when they are leveling up a new character.

In yet other, mostly MUDs, a brand new character is a joke compared to the vet character who has inherited, perm'd, whatever so many skills that they are essentially gods compared to a new character at "level 1",


How do you think SE is going to address the elite and noob player over time? What will a player have to do after 5 years? How will a player joining in 5 years mesh into the community?
#2 Aug 10 2009 at 5:59 AM Rating: Default
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Ixious wrote:
Of course everything is speculation at this point, but I felt this would make for an interesting discussion.

In FFXI we have multiple jobs to level, thus old guys like me that have been in FFXI for 5 years or more just have more and more jobs 75. We vets see newbies when in the dunes, and honestly are marginally stronger than them (merits, random rex gear like salvage/low level quest/misc, funds to buy better gear), but not by much.

In other games long-time players have maxed out a character, moved on to a new one, and kept going so by the 5 year mark they have a small militia of maxed out characters, thus seeing newbies when they are leveling up a new character.

In yet other, mostly MUDs, a brand new character is a joke compared to the vet character who has inherited, perm'd, whatever so many skills that they are essentially gods compared to a new character at "level 1",


How do you think SE is going to address the elite and noob player over time? What will a player have to do after 5 years? How will a player joining in 5 years mesh into the community?


After 5 years you probably already have quit FFXIV. Since it’s a "casual" game I don’t really think people will play it more than a few years, it won't be "hardcore" as FFXI. All "casual" MMO's are usually like that, you play for a short time, you quit and move on to something else. The only reason people would still keep playing a casual MMO is if there is no "alternative" to it that is good or better. Look at WoW, which is very casual, but there is no good alternative and that is a huge reason why people still play it. Also WoW is a killing machine when it comes down to promotion and sale. It’s always on top 5 PC sales in all countries and has been for several years now. And the game is extremely friendly to new players if they want to start playing. Recently they have reached a dead-end though, with people leaving the game at the same rate as they are getting new players.

Edited, Aug 10th 2009 10:01am by Maldavian
#3 Aug 10 2009 at 6:36 AM Rating: Decent
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After 5 years you probably already have quit FFXIV. Since it’s a "casual" game I don’t really think people will play it more than a few years, it won't be "hardcore" as FFXI.


I agree that after five years of playing XIV you, me and everyother player their at launch will have quit by that time, but I don't agree with the thought that it will be because S.E. will make the game so casual. I would hope that S.E. will create a game that is as casual or hardcore as you would want it to be. If your an older guy with a family that doesn't have the 5 hours a night every night 7 days a week to commit then you can still have a great time being a casual player and not feel like you've been shortchanged for not being Mr. "I'm so Hardcore I am going to get divorced because I play to much" alternatively I hope that S.E. still introduces that hardcore element for the player that wants to commit most of his/her free time to the game.

As for your question about the elite/noob players in 5 years time I don't forsee it being a big problem as long as FFXIV has a good flow of vet players remaining in game and new player joining the game then both catergories will find people to play with at their own skill lvl.
#4 Aug 10 2009 at 8:58 AM Rating: Decent
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After 5 years you probably already have quit FFXIV. Since it’s a "casual" game I don’t really think people will play it more than a few years, it won't be "hardcore" as FFXI. All "casual" MMO's are usually like that, you play for a short time, you quit and move on to something else. The only reason people would still keep playing a casual MMO is if there is no "alternative" to it that is good or better. Look at WoW, which is very casual, but there is no good alternative and that is a huge reason why people still play it. Also WoW is a killing machine when it comes down to promotion and sale. It’s always on top 5 PC sales in all countries and has been for several years now. And the game is extremely friendly to new players if they want to start playing. Recently they have reached a dead-end though, with people leaving the game at the same rate as they are getting new players.


Just because this game is more casual and the developers said you can accomplish more in less time does not make this a "casual rpg". Maybe when compared to FFXI it is, but I think you're reading too deep into the little information that we know. Usually those games that you "play for a short time, you quit and move on to something else" are either free crappy MMO's or just bad games. This game most likely will still be more hardcore than WoW. The reason people still play WoW is because there is a lot to do, much more than other MMORPG's. SE has tried to compete by adding things like Assault, Besieged, Einherjar and Salvage; it's another incentive for people to keep playing, and yes, it is casual. Casual may mean less playing time over the course of a day, but it hardly indicated less playing length. If they add more activities like this, and they have said it will be questing heavy, than it's going to keep people playing for longer, not shorter. Also, they will still have endgame stuff, it's just for people like me who knows the penalties that come with endgame will have other things to do.

People are reading way too much into a "more casual" game.
#5 Aug 10 2009 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
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Sloannn wrote:
People are reading way too much into a "more casual" game.


Agreed... SE said if you want to play it for an hour or 10 hours, you can achieve something. I believe this game will have varying degrees of difficulties so everyone can enjoy it, not just the people who have the time. I am hoping for so much from this game, seeing that seems to be flexible around a person schedule, and I just don't want to be let down. Please SE... don't let us down.

As to how long I will play... who knows, but I'll enjoy it while I do and leave when I no longer have fun. Its just like a regular console game, you can only play it so many times before you grow bored. Everyone moves on at some point, just some find more joy in some games than others and can hold out longer.

Anyway, 5 years down the road SE will probably be announcing its NEW MMORPG they are working on... seriously they announced they were working on this one a few years after FFXI came out, so ya never know. In 5-7 years we all might be talking about FFXLIX (49 if ya don't know roman numerals lol) and wondering how they are going to make that MMO work. LOL
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#6 Aug 10 2009 at 9:47 AM Rating: Decent
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the "job" system seems somewhat like ff11, so it could be the same...

i guess it'll depend of what SE does,

if the "grind" to the max of a "job" is a lot shorter than in ff11, many players will have taken all the "jobs"(at least all theses they want to play) to the max after 5 years, leaving few places for newbies

if the "grind" is almost as long as ff11, only hardcore players will have acomplished things like that, the average 5 year player would have 2-3 "jobs" at max, but i'm not sure the game could still be called casual

beside that, SE could still add new "jobs" like they did with toau and wotg to brings older players back to low levels
#7 Aug 10 2009 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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I think there people are erroneously equating casual to lack of content. I don't see anything stopping SE from packing the game with a large amount of quests/missions that don't take an entire party or half the day to complete. Perhaps instead of large missions that need to be done all at once, the missions are doable in small spurts.
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#8 Aug 10 2009 at 11:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Well WoW was a casual game, and look where it is now.
#9 Aug 10 2009 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
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I think what tends to confuse and concern people about "more casual" is that they think it will amount to "easier," probably because the only real challenge in XI is what a hardcore time requirement it is.

The thing is, there are games that are so much more casual and yet so much more challenging. Games where it's taken me 20 attempts to kill a boss... is that hardcore? Not really-- anyone can pick it up and play these games. And the satisfaction wasn't diminished in the least by the fact that I could just keep trying over and over as much as I wanted without wait, but the frustration from having to constantly repeat things that were already too easy was gone. Like killing the weakling enemies over and over, or camping for three hours.

I mean, even games like Rock Band/Guitar Hero and Super Smash Bros. are simultaneously far more challenging and far more casual than FFXI.
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#10 Aug 10 2009 at 2:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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After 5 years you probably already have quit FFXIV. Since it’s a "casual" game I don’t really think people will play it more than a few years, it won't be "hardcore" as FFXI.


FFXIV IZ DYING!
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#11 Aug 10 2009 at 6:51 PM Rating: Decent
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I think there people are erroneously equating casual to lack of content. I don't see anything stopping SE from packing the game with a large amount of quests/missions that don't take an entire party or half the day to complete. Perhaps instead of large missions that need to be done all at once, the missions are doable in small spurts.


I couldn't have said it better myself. Things like besieged and assault make the game more casual and give it more content. If SE brings us a lot of little hunts and quests it will bring a lot of new gamers who are sick of WoW, or a SE fan but didn't have the time to play FFXI. More casual activities will make us play longer than FFXI, while having much more fun. A recipe for success.
#12 Aug 10 2009 at 7:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Twistedblack wrote:
Well WoW was a casual game, and look where it is now.


Exactly.
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#13 Aug 10 2009 at 8:38 PM Rating: Decent
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With the removal of traditional grinding and job system, I would find the gap between a newbie and a vet negligible since games with such aspects usually focus on the journey more than the gains. In Monster Hunter (yes another MH reference) even when you'd have the best stuff you would basically spend you're time either helping out noobs or downgrading to a set of gear with lower stats for the sake of an added challenge. ffxiv has the makings of a more synergistic MMO in contrast to ffxi where the community aspects won't be as much of a chore. It'll atleast be less tedious than ffxi, thats for sure. If ffxi weren't so tedious it'd prolly be the best mmo on the market(or atleast equal to WoW in popularity), tho we know that the community would likely be comparable to those from WoW as a result.
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