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#1 Aug 14 2009 at 3:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Wouldn't it be nice if they come up with something new with these types of trade?
Maybe they would.

The types of trades that requires you to go outside and do stuff:

-harvesting
-logging
-mining
-excavating
-clamming
-chocobo digging
-fishing
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#2 Aug 14 2009 at 4:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm personally hoping for increased focus on all the non-combat stuff in the game. This includes HELM and crafting. Some of the most intriguing gameplay in MMORPGs for me come from the economy, trying to find new clever ways to make money, etc.

While I played FFXI I loved fishing, though looking back it really feels... empty. I love the idea of being a crafter, or gatherer, in the world. But the gameplay there needs to be diversified somehow.

So yeah, I think one thing that's holding MMORPGs back is the strong focus on the combat. Yeah, I know most people like that. But diversity is good, and it'd be nice to see some "innovations" or nice gameplay features for the non-combat sections of the game as well.
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#3 Aug 14 2009 at 4:02 AM Rating: Good
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You're talking about adding other stuff besides those? Sure, I don't see why not, but you don't have any suggestions?

I guess it seems like they'll be adding hunting. I'm not exactly brimming with fresh ideas at the moment, but I guess if I think of anything I'll share. I can think of several new crafts, but it's a little harder to imagine new ways to collect resources outside.

Panning? Heh.
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#4 Aug 14 2009 at 4:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
You're talking about adding other stuff besides those? Sure, I don't see why not, but you don't have any suggestions?


Well I could think of some things but not sure if they're that creative.

I - It doesn't have to be taking some physical stuff from outside of towns. Maybe just taking information from the environment which other players might be interested to use. They can be surveyors, hackers, idk lol.

II - Players can have a mechanical crawler/recycler that they can leave in certain areas to retrieve some items to be found under the ground including those that are thrown away by other players.
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#5 Aug 14 2009 at 4:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Fishing should be an elaborate mini-game a'la Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess.
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#6 Aug 14 2009 at 5:14 AM Rating: Good
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I think if you take a look at how Star Wars Galaxies (PreCU/Pre NGE) treated their non-combat classes, it may give you some ideas as to how FFXIV might work out.

In FFXIV there are the Disciplines of the Hand and Disciplines of the Land. Crafters and Hunter-Gatherer types.

In SWG, there were Scouts and Rangers who could track animals and harvest skins and bone materials from them. Crafters used these to make armor and weapons and such.

I think we will see something like this in FFXIV: With the Disciplines of the Land and Hand, their main focus won't be combat. A crafter might need some specific type of animal skin to craft a set of armor, and he will need the help of a good Hunter/Ranger (or whatever they will be called) to track the animal, or maybe find the location of a nest or hive of the animal. I guess that's when they would switch into their fighting equips and kill then harvest, or bring along some friends who specialize in combat to do the dirty work. Idunno... it's just a guess...
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#7 Aug 14 2009 at 6:46 AM Rating: Excellent
I'm hoping that the crafting & gathering aspects will get my wife to play. She hates fighting, so I'd have my Roegadyn do all the combat, and her character (probably a Miqo'te, knowing her love of cats) would do the crafting.
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#8 Aug 14 2009 at 7:14 AM Rating: Good
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My first MMO was a text-based RPG called Dragonrealms, and I remember the crafting/gathering trades in that to be really fun and in-depth.

One that I haven't seen in an RPG since was Foraging. You might forage in a grassy area and find a clump of grass, then use several clumps to make a piece of rope. Once you got good you could make specific ropes, like Bundling Rope, which you used to bundle skins you'd gotten off enemies. Skinning and tanning was a multi-step process too. Skinning the mob, cleaning the pelt, then tanning it. It was relly realistically designed, and a lot of fun. I wish something like it would come around again instead of the more basic crafting systems we have now, like WoW.
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#9 Aug 14 2009 at 7:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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I - It doesn't have to be taking some physical stuff from outside of towns. Maybe just taking information from the environment which other players might be interested to use. They can be surveyors, hackers, idk lol.

II - Players can have a mechanical crawler/recycler that they can leave in certain areas to retrieve some items to be found under the ground including those that are thrown away by other players.


So, perhaps something like cartographers, bestiary authors (zoologists?), and salvagers? Those all seem like fairly good ideas to me. Adding data collection jobs to the list opens up a lot of new possibilities. Of course, you then have to figure out how to make that data useful and marketable, but that shouldn't prove too difficult.

The limitation with gathering jobs really depends upon the environment. Of course you can't gather resources that aren't there, so if you're going to have any particularly unique gathering jobs, you're going to need some rather unique areas with properties that can be reaped.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#10 Aug 14 2009 at 7:52 AM Rating: Good
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It'd be nice if they had an "Architect". Although that would involve massive gameplay change. I don't think there has been an MMO out there that allows you to build your own place.
#11 Aug 14 2009 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
My first MMO was a text-based RPG called Dragonrealms, and I remember the crafting/gathering trades in that to be really fun and in-depth.

One that I haven't seen in an RPG since was Foraging. You might forage in a grassy area and find a clump of grass, then use several clumps to make a piece of rope. Once you got good you could make specific ropes, like Bundling Rope, which you used to bundle skins you'd gotten off enemies. Skinning and tanning was a multi-step process too. Skinning the mob, cleaning the pelt, then tanning it. It was relly realistically designed, and a lot of fun. I wish something like it would come around again instead of the more basic crafting systems we have now, like WoW.


I dunno, that all sounds good on paper.

lol jk.

Yeah Foraging was a pretty big thing in Monster Hunter as well as well as the quests that involved the delivery of desired items that had to be carried while avoiding getting hit by mobs which I found more exhilarating and multi-dimensional than that straight up hunting quests.

My favorite aspect in ffxi outside of soloing was also the economical aspects since in the end ffxi is more of a numbers game than anything. One thing I was wondering if I should start a topic on was an interest in being able to basically camp out in the wilderness. The main reason one would want to do this would be for things like HELM and faming and such, tho theirs always the logic of why not just lout in/out in the spot you'd want to farm. Also if you have goods you want to sell you'd have to trek back to a hub nation to sell your goods and take on missions anyway.

One reason I'd have an interest in being able to camp out is that some of us would like to spend more time out in the environment than in the confines of their designated residence in whatever hub nation they are forced to reside. It'd also give you the ability to manage your inventory without having to head back to your residence. I'd also like the idea of being able to form a small little community or tribe in a remote area of a zone. The idea of being able to do little quaint things like that would be pretty coo.

You could maybe form a small community/tribe near some logging spots where peeps could travel to pick up logs in bulk compared from those dedicated to that task compared to those available on a central AH (assuming their is an AH) where supply might be limited(possibly due to the tribes monopoly on logging lol).

Just thought it might be interesting.

Edited, Aug 15th 2009 2:17am by baltz
#12 Aug 14 2009 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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TaiiKen wrote:
It'd be nice if they had an "Architect". Although that would involve massive gameplay change. I don't think there has been an MMO out there that allows you to build your own place.

Please see this article about architecture in Age of Conan.
#13 Aug 14 2009 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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Hmm skinning could work, some kind of treasurehunting could too.

Salvage could also lead to treasurehunting. Start with old battered carts and unmarked graves, eventualy work your way up to lost battlefeilds, kings tombs, and ship wrecks.
#14 Aug 14 2009 at 2:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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TaiiKen wrote:
It'd be nice if they had an "Architect". Although that would involve massive gameplay change. I don't think there has been an MMO out there that allows you to build your own place.
AOC, old-SWG, vanguard, UO, and EQII(? I think)
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#15 Aug 14 2009 at 9:32 PM Rating: Good
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Niiice. Now they just have to bring it to FF lol.
#16 Aug 14 2009 at 9:37 PM Rating: Good
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just out of curiosity what does HELM mean lol
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#17 Aug 14 2009 at 9:40 PM Rating: Good
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Averrinicus wrote:
just out of curiosity what does HELM mean lol

It's the FFXI term for Harvesting, Excavation, Logging and Mining.
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#18 Aug 14 2009 at 9:49 PM Rating: Good
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It's the FFXI term for Harvesting, Excavation, Logging and Mining.


really now? I have never heard of it to be honest, huh makes sense. thank you!
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#19 Aug 14 2009 at 10:07 PM Rating: Good
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You know, wouldn't it be interesting, if instead of having meats and consumables drop off normal monsters you actually "Battle" you had to "Hunt" for them, and mine for them, and fish for them, etc? Instead of getting slime oil off of a blob that starts hitting you, you get it from going into mines and pipe lines and sewers and collecting it.

Instead of getting Meat off of random monsters you fight, you would hunt certain types, that are less... Well... Monstrous?

I dunno, just an idea. It would add more diversity to what you fought and why in my opinion, and I think they could work off that. But I also see that this has flaws and I'm not saying I'm right. Just an idea.
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#20 Aug 14 2009 at 10:33 PM Rating: Good
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You know, wouldn't it be interesting, if instead of having meats and consumables drop off normal monsters you actually "Battle" you had to "Hunt" for them, and mine for them, and fish for them, etc? Instead of getting slime oil off of a blob that starts hitting you, you get it from going into mines and pipe lines and sewers and collecting it.

Instead of getting Meat off of random monsters you fight, you would hunt certain types, that are less... Well... Monstrous?

I dunno, just an idea. It would add more diversity to what you fought and why in my opinion, and I think they could work off that. But I also see that this has flaws and I'm not saying I'm right. Just an idea.


That brings up a good point, in most MMOs anything and/or everything you could engage in combat always then engaged you even if they are no match. There should be cases where you have to stalk wild-life(such as sheep) that would flee when they are/felt they were in danger. The only game I've played that had such aspects was Monster Hunter where certain herbivores would run away, a few agros, and some did both, some ran away when a much larger carnivore came around.

The only case of this in FFXI was when fighting the Qiqirn Rangers, but that was only for the sake of making them harder to solo for BLMs.

Things like this would and otherwise shake up the otherwise typical "target, hack&slash, repeat" formula. They also wouldn't have to bother beefing up this mobs to create a long battle if they bothered to be evasive rather than aggressive. The time could be sunk into the stalking and chasing rather than standing around until mob dies and attack mode deactivates.

They could also increase how much one could gain from kill rather than just a sheep skin, or sheep meat, or sheep skin, they allow to get all these things in one or a few kills.They wouldn't have to gimp drops if they didn't design the game around carrying tons of crap in the first place lol

It'd turn the hunt into another game rather than just something you do to survive economically.

Edited, Aug 15th 2009 3:00am by baltz
#21 Aug 14 2009 at 10:42 PM Rating: Good
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baltz wrote:
That brings up a good point, in most MMOs anything and/or everything you could engage in combat always then engaged you even if they are no match. There should be cases where you have to stalk wild-life(such as sheep) that would flee when they are/felt they were in danger. The only game I've played that had such aspects was Monster Hunter where certain herbivores would run away, a few agros, and some did both, some ran away when a much larger carnivore came around.

The only case of this in FFXI was when fighting the Qiqirn Rangers, but that was only for the sake of making them harder to solo for BLMs.

Things like this would and otherwise shake up the otherwise typical "target, hack&slash, repeat" formula. They also wouldn't have to bother beefing up this mobs to create a long battle if they bothered to be evasive rather than aggressive. The time could be sunk into the stalking and chasing rather than standing around until mob dies and attack mode deactivates.

They could also increase how much one could gain from kill rather than just a sheep skin, or sheep meat, or sheep skin, they allow to get all these things in one or a few kills.

They wouldn't have to worry about gimping drops if they didn't design the game around carrying tons of stuff in the first place anyway lol

It'd turn the hunt into another game rather than just something you do to afford to survive economically.


Exactly. You would be getting away from simply "Hack and Slash" a mob to get items for food and such. Now that I think about it, this would make sense as to how they could center jobs like "Gatherer" around it. Perhaps this is what Square Enix means by Character Growth. That the game will be more involved than just "Target, hit, kill, repeat" and give some depth and elements to the gameplay. I can see how a gatherer would hone their skills on hunting, on harvesting, on things like that. Having to make traps, learning better ways to fish, etc.

This could be really fun if implemented correctly.
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#22 Aug 14 2009 at 11:00 PM Rating: Good
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Oh yeah, hunting could easily be a lot of fun. I mean, who really wants to eat monster meat? No, you want the tender meat of something cute and innocent that runs away at the first sign of danger. You want to stalk your prey, slinking... observing. Lay a trap or two perhaps? But then, he detects your presence, and the game is afoot! You take off in hot pursuit, and finally corner the savory, quivering meal. You start to salivate profusely. At last, you tear its flesh, its crimson life spilling onto the ground beneath.

Oh, the thrill of the hunt... Mwaha... MWAHAHAHAAAA!!!


...


What?
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#23 Aug 14 2009 at 11:03 PM Rating: Good
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Oh yeah, hunting could easily be a lot of fun.


So very true! That sounds awesome, I am getting flash backs to 'Oregon Trail' already. (Remember how you would sacrifice your whole caravan just to play the hunting minigame?)

It would be cool if gardening had something equivalently as fun as hunting. The FF series is known for its minigames, perhaps they will think of something neat for gardeners. (but I think most of us will take hunting).
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#24 Aug 14 2009 at 11:09 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Oh yeah, hunting could easily be a lot of fun. I mean, who really wants to eat monster meat? No, you want the tender meat of something cute and innocent that runs away at the first sign of danger. You want to stalk your prey, slinking... observing. Lay a trap or two perhaps? But then, he detects your presence, and the game is afoot! You take off in hot pursuit, and finally corner the savory, quivering meal. You start to salivate profusely. At last, you tear its flesh, its crimson life spilling onto the ground beneath.

Oh, the thrill of the hunt... Mwaha... MWAHAHAHAAAA!!!


...


What?


o-o
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#25 Aug 14 2009 at 11:11 PM Rating: Good
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Shazaamemt wrote:
It would be cool if gardening had something equivalently as fun as hunting. The FF series is known for its minigames, perhaps they will think of something neat for gardeners. (but I think most of us will take hunting).


I'm sure they will. It probably will fall into the harvesting category, gardening being like a sub category. I can think of all kinds of ways it would be a lot of fun, having to actually go logging, cutting down tree's finding seeds and herbs, the list goes on. I bet it will be a lot of fun.

Why do I see a Roegadyn in a pink apron, a straw hat and little white gloves as I write this...

... *shakes head and trys to snap out of it*

Anyhow...
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#26 Aug 15 2009 at 12:14 AM Rating: Decent
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use the "negociate" leve, so the animal gnaw it's legs off and gives them to you instead if being hunted, that way you won't have to feel guilty about your meal... will you ?

now on a more serious/speculating note : with the leves, SE mentionned something about some allowing to "hunting on private lands", i could totaly see some pasture with sheeps, then a predation system like in ff12(in a zone, ther was a t-rex eating other mobs and becoming stronger as it did) but much more developped would be nice too
#27 Aug 15 2009 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
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I really think they should add the "predation" system from FFXII regardless of what HELMs we have as well as migrations/larger roaming patterns. It makes the world seem a lot more dynamic than "this monster is located at pos X +/- 5 feet".
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#28 Aug 15 2009 at 11:16 AM Rating: Good
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I imagine there probably will be predation. There was actually predation in FFXI originally, but it was quickly given the axe because the monsters ended up eating all the good xp mobs.

That's another thing that never better be a problem again... not enough xp mobs.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#29 Aug 15 2009 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
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They said something about not wanting to have parties "camped" in a certain spot "pulling" enemies for hours on end didn't they?
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#30 Aug 15 2009 at 9:02 PM Rating: Good
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They did, but come on, this is SE. Their best of intentions don't always bear fruit.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#31 Aug 15 2009 at 9:20 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
They did, but come on, this is SE. Their best of intentions don't always bear fruit.
true
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Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#32 Aug 16 2009 at 6:28 AM Rating: Decent
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The prolly coulda fixed that problem by lowering respawn time rather than removing predation.

meant to so lowering, increasing respawn wouldn't make sense >.<

Edited, Aug 18th 2009 12:43am by baltz
#33 Aug 16 2009 at 6:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, but once again, this is SE we're talking about. There were some other really cool features that didn't work out very well either, like dragons actually flying in when they "spawned."
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#34 Aug 16 2009 at 9:06 PM Rating: Decent
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My hope is that they allow HQ's on HELM and drops. For instance, if you're a Gold Smith and you find a mining node, you ought to have a better idea of how to properly hit it. This would give you a chance of getting multiple ores out of it. And the higher you Gold Smithing, the higher the chance that you get an HQ drop.

OR take Leatherworking. If you kill a sheep and you're a decently high leatherworker, then you'd know how to get a little bit extra out of the sheep. This would work out to you getting a chance at more sheepskins dropping.
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#35 Aug 16 2009 at 9:22 PM Rating: Good
Never mind, tried adding this image several times now and some **** keeps reporting it. I guess "Holy Crap" is offensive. I kind of don't like the feature on this site that lets anyone delete your image once you post it, just by clicking a button under it...

Edited, Aug 16th 2009 11:10pm by EndlessJourney
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