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#1 Aug 14 2009 at 7:36 AM Rating: Decent
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There are 4 disciplines for this game so far. War, Magic, Hand, and Land. Now are hand and land actual fighting jobs or crafting?

#2 Aug 14 2009 at 7:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Sounds like they aren't fighting jobs. Something that everyone who likes crafting or gathering will enjoy and will dress up for it or something like that.

I think it would be cool if leveling up (I know no levels) those disciplines would open choices for combat. Like a smith can learn an ability that when you change to war discipline you can use guns. I guess it would be too much pain in the *** too. I really have no clue :(
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#3 Aug 14 2009 at 7:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Hm ok. They make it sound like it's something new that they came up with lol. We change clothes to craft right now.. or mine or fish.. Anytime anywhere.
#4 Aug 14 2009 at 7:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, thats what I got too. You see a river and decide to kill some fishies then you change clothes to a fisherman and begin the fish massacre.
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"should you punch a six-year old girl in the face -- or should you punch her in the stomach? Hmm, that's a toughie."

Battlecat:
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#5 Aug 14 2009 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
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Nobody really knows yet, but for speculation, I'm going to assume that all the disciplines will be able to fight to a degree, just not to the same ability as a war or magic discipline. I imagine a fisherman would need to be able to fight if he reels in a monster. The fishing rod could also double as a staff?

Additionally, I think some cool abilities could come from the 'non-fighting' disciplines that help them in combat. Like, maybe a leather-crafter could get damage bonuses on lizards or a woodworker could build a short-range catapult or something. Who knows though? Maybe crafter classes won't be able to fight at all. Adding hand and land disciples to endgame could make for some interesting scenarios though, especially if hand evolves into something like engineer and if land becomes something like geomancer.

I'm curious...
#6 Aug 14 2009 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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I'm thinking the 4 discipline separation is just to separate into groups with each of which will be a "seesaw"/max allowable growth, so that each avatar can have be maxed in a melee+mage+harvester+crafter path but not 2 different melee paths etc.
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#7 Aug 14 2009 at 6:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm thinking the 4 discipline separation is just to separate into groups with each of which will be a "seesaw"/max allowable growth, so that each avatar can have be maxed in a melee+mage+harvester+crafter path but not 2 different melee paths etc.


That seems to make sense.

But yeah i think land and hand is just purely crafting. They won't have a role in combat.
#8 Aug 14 2009 at 9:31 PM Rating: Good
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Hm I hope it's not a seesaw.. We'll have to make multiple characters to play different roles to their max. That's what was awesome about FFXI we didn't have to make multiple characters. We just needed one.

I'm sure SE wouldn't do that since it's what makes their game unique. We'll just have to wait and see what happens I guess.
#9 Aug 14 2009 at 11:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm thinking the 4 discipline separation is just to separate into groups with each of which will be a "seesaw"/max allowable growth, so that each avatar can have be maxed in a melee+mage+harvester+crafter path but not 2 different melee paths etc.


That would suck. My own personal opinion. I would not play the game very much if that was the new 'job system'.
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#10 Aug 15 2009 at 8:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Shazaamemt wrote:
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I'm thinking the 4 discipline separation is just to separate into groups with each of which will be a "seesaw"/max allowable growth, so that each avatar can have be maxed in a melee+mage+harvester+crafter path but not 2 different melee paths etc.


That would suck. My own personal opinion. I would not play the game very much if that was the new 'job system'.
I'm confused what the big problem is? With almost every other MMO (other than ffxi) you only get one job per char and have to start a new char if you want to play a different job and nobody else seems to mind. At least this way you could be Mage+Melee on one character.
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#11 Aug 15 2009 at 8:48 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm confused what the big problem is? With almost every other MMO (other than ffxi) you only get one job per char and have to start a new char if you want to play a different job and nobody else seems to mind. At least this way you could be Mage+Melee on one character.


Well, that would be a step back from FFXI and I don't think many of us are looking forward to a feature that's worse than in it's predecessor.

I think that there'll be merit-style limitations as to how many jobs you can 'max' in one discipline, but they'll let us 'level' all jobs we want to on a single character.


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#12 Aug 15 2009 at 8:50 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't really think they'll do it that way though. One thing that has always been considered a strength in FFXI was that you could level all the jobs on the same character. That's been a huge selling point since the beginning, and it's something that I don't think SE would be quick to toss aside.

I think it's more likely that you'll have access to all jobs at max, but it won't be effective or possible to switch freely between them. This could either be due to a time constraint (stunned for a few seconds if you switch) or effect limitations, like losing your buffs if you switch (assuming buffs would be a primary reason that people might want to switch regularly). Or I suppose both.
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#13 Aug 15 2009 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
I don't really think they'll do it that way though. One thing that has always been considered a strength in FFXI was that you could level all the jobs on the same character. That's been a huge selling point since the beginning, and it's something that I don't think SE would be quick to toss aside.
If you take merits into account you still can't really "master" every job on one character though. From my own experience there are enough minor advantages (sidestepping "you can only do X so often", bypassing "you can only pick one rewards, multiboxing) and disavantages (having to redo missions etc) to having one job per char vs having all jobs on one character where it's not that big of a draw either way.

Kachi wrote:
I think it's more likely that you'll have access to all jobs at max, but it won't be effective or possible to switch freely between them. This could either be due to a time constraint (stunned for a few seconds if you switch) or effect limitations, like losing your buffs if you switch (assuming buffs would be a primary reason that people might want to switch regularly). Or I suppose both.
My personal opinion is that they should/will go with the ffxi crafting system see-saw, aka: you can level everything up to a certain point and have access to it always, but you only have so many points to put in after that point.

Alternatively, I wouldn't mind that much it if they let us "learn" everything, but only be able to set a certain # of talents/ja/etc at a time (either similar to WoW's talent trees or BLU's spell list). However I've always felt it was really awkward and unnatural in games that I could spend all this time learning some skill set and then just "forget it" because I talked to an npc or switched an option.

Really, I wouldn't mind straight unlimited growth w/o max as long as it became progressively harder to skillup the more skills you had to the point where it was unrealistic to ever be able to max everything, but characters that played a lot were still significantly better than newer chars. Some older (2d) mmo's tried this and I heard it worked fairly well, but I don't see it as very likely in FFXIV.
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Winston Churchill wrote:
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#14 Aug 15 2009 at 11:02 AM Rating: Decent
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you take merits into account you still can't really "master" every job on one character though. From my own experience there are enough minor advantages (sidestepping "you can only do X so often", bypassing "you can only pick one rewards, multiboxing) and disavantages (having to redo missions etc) to having one job per char vs having all jobs on one character where it's not that big of a draw either way.


And you know, I always hated that about merits. It deviates from what I always felt to be a good principle in the game. But honestly, I could never merit two jobs anyway... I couldn't bring myself to fully merit one. Way too much grinding.

Quote:
Alternatively, I wouldn't mind that much it if they let us "learn" everything, but only be able to set a certain # of talents/ja/etc at a time (either similar to WoW's talent trees or BLU's spell list). However I've always felt it was really awkward and unnatural in games that I could spend all this time learning some skill set and then just "forget it" because I talked to an npc or switched an option.


This is what I'm hoping for. It's not my "perfect system" but it's pretty **** good. I might do something like a Materia grid for it. You level up the abilities yes, but you don't really forget them... just unequip them. That's one of the great things about video games: when all logic and reason fails... magic!

Alternatively, you could make it so that you can't just switch abilities willy-nilly. If you forget an ability, you have to relearn it. So it allows for that level of customization, but you still have to decide what you want your character to be, because you can't change for each situation that presents itself. I kind of prefer that way, I think, but it has one major downside. Not as much magic :c

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Really, I wouldn't mind straight unlimited growth w/o max as long as it became progressively harder to skillup the more skills you had to the point where it was unrealistic to ever be able to max everything, but characters that played a lot were still significantly better than newer chars. Some older (2d) mmo's tried this and I heard it worked fairly well, but I don't see it as very likely in FFXIV.


I also like this system, though I always want to tweak it so that it's a little more flexible and you don't find yourself locked in to your ridiculously strong skills, while at the same time friendly to new players. Basically a system where, as you say, you can never max. Each use in combat improves the ability a bit, but you really might as well just play the game and enjoy it, because there's no point in busting your *** to hit the cap. I didn't realize there were games that actually used that kind of system. Though I did play a game where it -seemed- impossible to cap (but at least one guy did it... I feel sorry for him).

But yeah, at this point especially that looks unlikely.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
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