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Worried about targetting and mob switching.Follow

#1 Aug 22 2009 at 9:05 PM Rating: Default
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I have been extremely busy this week with prior obligations, so I have had very little time to analyze all the new information.

The little I have seen shows the game play similar to that of FFXI. As in you unsheathe a weapon, wait a few seconds, and then auto attacking becomes enabled. I saw a scene where a warrior was fighting multiple mobs; however, he was only single attacking one and did an aoe type ability.

I was hoping for more flexibility on targeting, target swapping, and sheathing/unsheathing weapons.

I played a warrior in WoW, and the ability to quickly switch targets was crucial in making sure a party member does not die. It seems from the videos I am watching that the slow game play will not mingle well with large scale battles.

I am hoping that target switching becomes easier, and accessible 'on the fly' as opposed to having to target lock.

While I am on the subject, the game does seem to be slow. It could be bad/inexperienced players, but the Dev playing the game also had similar speeds. I did not like the snail pace of FFXI. The creators of FFXIV mentioned a speed up of the game play. I do not see evidence for that as of yet.

These are just my thoughts, and people are free to disagree, but I am hoping that the next footage we see will be a much faster game.
#2 Aug 22 2009 at 9:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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1)no auto-attack
2)you can unsheath/sheath w/e you want
3)you can switch targeted mob just by tabbing or clicking
4)There is no reason to believe the endgame pace will be anything like that shown in the videos, it was obviously a a beginner mission w/ purposefully slow/buffed characters to allow people to get used to the new system and show off graphics/guild leves
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#3 Aug 22 2009 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent
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watch a few more videos and read the interviews on this site and your questions will be answered. and yes i am that lazy.
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#4 Aug 22 2009 at 9:32 PM Rating: Good
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The gameplay in the demos was slow because some of the game aspects were still glitchy, and not to mention that the people playing had no idea what they were doing. They dropped the whole auto-attack concept, and combat requires continuous pressing of keys, which was obviously not being done in the majority of the cases.
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#5 Aug 22 2009 at 9:37 PM Rating: Good
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I agree that changing targets in FFXI was too slow and awkward. I don't think it will be that way this time around.

As others pointed out, auto-attack is gone. I haven't heard anyone really mention the details, but since you need to manually select each attack you do from the action bar, I imagine it will be as simple as selecting an action and clicking on a different enemy.
#6 Aug 22 2009 at 9:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I understand the game was being played by inexperienced players.

The game just seems slow. I watched the video again. The delay times of abilities seems very long. I don't want a short cooldown to be considered 2-5mins.

Sheathing/unsheathing of weapons in the videos was very slow and clunky. I am hoping by release the idea of sheathing is removed and instead integrated in your initial attack.

I am happy to see auto-attack is removed. But the targeting does seem limited in that you can only have one enemy targeted at once.

People who play WoW realized the importance of multi-mob control and targeting, and many mods were developed to aid with this. FXIV is being advertised as an aoe fight as opposed to 5v1. The things I'm seeing in the videos is showing me 5v1 then 5v1 then 5v1 then 5v1 instead of an actual 5v5 fight.
#7 Aug 22 2009 at 9:46 PM Rating: Good
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sigh
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#8 Aug 22 2009 at 10:09 PM Rating: Good
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It's been stated but I'll state it again:

It's in Alpha stage. Nothing's finalized, animations are incomplete (if existing at all), textures are rough, draw distance is low, etc etc etc. They were showing off how Guildleves work. And that's exactly what they polished for the show. The build of the game they have in their offices is a good bit farther along than what they show to the public. When the time comes around to showcase the combat (hopefully TGS?) then we can make fair assumptions about the pace of combat.

But as of now, it's kind of hard to tell if something's happening in battle when you use an ability but there's no animation for it yet.
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#9 Aug 22 2009 at 11:02 PM Rating: Good
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People who play WoW realized the importance of multi-mob control and targeting, and many mods were developed to aid with this. FXIV is being advertised as an aoe fight as opposed to 5v1. The things I'm seeing in the videos is showing me 5v1 then 5v1 then 5v1 then 5v1 instead of an actual 5v5 fight.


Why are you comparing this game's battle system to WoW's when they're completely different?
You can't say "Why does WoW have this and FFXIV doesn't seem like it has it?"
Because they're two different games with different ways of doing things. You can't look at FFXIV and compare it to WoW and then act like you're disappointed when XIV does have X feature that WoW does.
#10 Aug 22 2009 at 11:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Honestly I played FF11 for about 2 years, then switched to WoW, where I've been for 3 years now. I have to say, I really do hope this game is nothing like WoW. I hope it attracts a different type of audience than WoW. To be honest, and really to no offense - it's just a difference in maturity, but I much prefer playing an MMO which is focused on strategy, thinking, logic, timing, etc. it has a feel that's more maturity to the game play. WoW is evermore becoming PvP based (just raided tonight some of the new content and it's basically a PvP fight against NPC's - while in PvE gear (they've tried to play in PvP gear - doesn't work), while trying to PvP the NPC's. It's an epic fail - and I hate Blizzard for "making" people PvP when they've chosen to play the PvE side of the game. If the game play for FF14 is a bit slower, and you have to actually strategize, rather than frantically mash buttons... I'm all for it. Not obviously they should be making improvements on their aging predecessor, FF11, you'd think they'd be improving upon that engine and game play.

Not to mention the graphics of the world already look amazing even in this development version. I much more prefer the realistic world to run around in (well as real as a fantasy MMORPG can be) than that of the more comic WoW.
#11 Aug 23 2009 at 1:52 AM Rating: Good
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gumpman wrote:
I understand the game was being played by inexperienced players.

The game just seems slow. I watched the video again. The delay times of abilities seems very long. I don't want a short cooldown to be considered 2-5mins.

Sheathing/unsheathing of weapons in the videos was very slow and clunky. I am hoping by release the idea of sheathing is removed and instead integrated in your initial attack.

I am happy to see auto-attack is removed. But the targeting does seem limited in that you can only have one enemy targeted at once.

People who play WoW realized the importance of multi-mob control and targeting, and many mods were developed to aid with this. FXIV is being advertised as an aoe fight as opposed to 5v1. The things I'm seeing in the videos is showing me 5v1 then 5v1 then 5v1 then 5v1 instead of an actual 5v5 fight.


You don't seem to actually comprehend anything people were trying to say.

The Delay times were seemingly slow because people didn't understand that there was no auto-attack, and that you could use several different abilities in conjunction with each other.

(I liked the slower, more methodical XI pace anyway.)

I fail to see how multi-targeting would be logical unless you're spamming nothing but AOEs instead of single-target attacks.

Reports from other players that played the alpha had good things to say about the targeting.

PhoenixMaquis wrote:
- You do not lose engaged status when mob is dead. You just unlock target and switch to one that is alive. This mechanic felt very easy to do. A/W/S/D are Left/Up/Down/Right in addition to the normal move buttons on the right of your keyboard. F is switch into engaged mode and X is lock target. You do not have to use CTRL before it. M opens the map. Pressing 1-9 does your preset actions and again no Ctrl/Alt there.


Your comparison to WoW is somewhat irrelevant considering this alpha build was just a sandbox for people to mess around in and not a sample of the actual game.



Edited, Aug 23rd 2009 2:56am by Kirbster
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#12 Aug 23 2009 at 7:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Remember ff7,ff8,ff9,ff12? and alot of previous ff's before even then, they had something called an active time bar gauge. Each move has its own, some will take longer obviously, others will be shorter, its intentionally "slow" it's not as fast paced as wow, but it is not that considerably slow. Target changing is really quick, you hit tab (then if you want to) x to lock down a target, x to unlock it, then tab to change targets.
#13 Aug 23 2009 at 7:45 AM Rating: Good
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I wasn't comparing the alpha we saw to wow. I used an example with wow to show the necessity for faster target swapping. I cannot think of an example in FFXI where if you got more than one add that couldn't be slept it was **** on the tank to keep aggro on both mobs.

UI Authors have written many addons for players to easily adapt to multi-mob fights. From what I saw in the game play videos the multi-mob fighting was very clunky.

Luckily, the game is still allegedly ~40-50% complete so we have a long way to go.
#14 Aug 23 2009 at 8:21 AM Rating: Decent
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haife wrote:
Remember ff7,ff8,ff9,ff12? and alot of previous ff's before even then, they had something called an active time bar gauge. Each move has its own, some will take longer obviously, others will be shorter, its intentionally "slow" it's not as fast paced as wow, but it is not that considerably slow. Target changing is really quick, you hit tab (then if you want to) x to lock down a target, x to unlock it, then tab to change targets.


Actually, only in FFXII the time to charge the bar depended on the move you selected. In the others you mention, it was charge bar (same charge time always) -> select action -> bar empties. In FFXII (and hopefully in FFXIV too), the order is select action -> bar charges (charge time depending on action selected) -> action executes.
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#15 Aug 23 2009 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
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I cannot think of an example in FFXI where if you got more than one add that couldn't be slept it was **** on the tank to keep aggro on both mobs.
That has nothing to with targeting, it has to do with hate generation. Tanks in FFXI have absolutely no AOE hate moves like groundstomp or consecration or avenger's shield, and our primary hate move (provoke) has a 30s cooldown. Additionally, as a Paladin in both, I want to say that tanking (even just single target) in WoW is super-easy mode compared to FFXI because of the huge amounts of mitigation, faster hate generation, higher hate generated (compared to melee), lower recasts, mana/health regen, instant hate removal, and (near) instant cures. If you want to be able to fight large groups of stuff w/ a single tank these are the types of things you should be hoping for.
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#16 Aug 23 2009 at 9:58 AM Rating: Decent
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I am happy to see auto-attack is removed.


I think they should have kept auto-attack and gave us intermittent attacks as well to activate with the buttons/keys/action bar.
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#17 Aug 23 2009 at 10:00 AM Rating: Decent
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I think they should have kept auto-attack and gave us intermittent attacks as well to activate with the buttons/keys/action bar.


I wonder if they added this as a anti-RMT move? Make it harder for a single person to multi-box a full team?
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#18 Aug 23 2009 at 10:06 AM Rating: Default
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I wonder if they added this as a anti-RMT move? Make it harder for a single person to multi-box a full team?


I think it was more about being different from ffxi then anything else. That could be an added benefit, but rmt could also just get more people to control them characters now. I doubt they would create the most important part of the game (the combat), with stopping rmt in mind.
#19 Aug 23 2009 at 10:08 AM Rating: Decent
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HocusP wrote:
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I wonder if they added this as a anti-RMT move? Make it harder for a single person to multi-box a full team?


I think it was more about being different from ffxi then anything else. That could be an added benefit, but rmt could also just get more people to control them characters now. I doubt they would create the most important part of the game (the combat), with stopping rmt in mind.
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I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
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