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Potions Inc.Follow

#1 Aug 30 2009 at 6:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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FFXI was one of the first FF's where potions/stat cure items/etc were pretty much unusable for most situations due to price/availability/space concerns. Would you like to see a return to normal use? How do you think this will effect game play balance? worthwhile harvesting/crafting? Should they be cheaply available from NPCs? Was FFX-2's alchemist (combined with DRKx2) not crazy as ****?

discussion.....go!
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#2 Aug 30 2009 at 6:52 PM Rating: Good
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I have mixed feelings about potion use in general. I guess, as unhelpful as the insight is, I would like it if it were implemented well, and would not like it if it were implemented poorly.
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#3 Aug 30 2009 at 7:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Based on SE decision to make FFXIV a more solo friendly game, i would assume that the use of potions would be making a return. Although from some interviews and basic knowledge, the devs have said that it will be easier to switch between a melee and a healer in the armory system, so it may not be necessary to make potions important.
#4 Aug 30 2009 at 7:27 PM Rating: Good
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http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=1251579524110611853&num=30&page=1

In that guildleave it said Hi-potion as one of the rewards. It would seem that it would make a comeback as a common use of healing once again.

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Although from some interviews and basic knowledge, the devs have said that it will be easier to switch between a melee and a healer in the armory system, so it may not be necessary to make potions important.


Though it may be easy to switch there are some people that are not willing to make the switch or even bothering to level any type of mage... I have a friend that will never play a mage or magic user if it ment healing himself lol. I am going based on this since we saw a simple GL that rewarded a hi-potion I guess its safe to assume that they would make a come back. See what happens.
#5 Aug 30 2009 at 7:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think that potions can be useful, especially if you're going to solo (since we know we change change skill-sets while in combat).

However, I am not a really big fan of potions. They tend to be expensive in any MMORPG and I always feel that my money is better spent elsewhere.

Even if potions are very affordable I still don't buy them because gil saved is gil earned.

I think that instead of making potions extremely cheap, they should just increase the drop rate for potions.

This way we don't need to spend money on them if we don't want to. We probably won't even be inclined to buy them from others players if the drop rate is decent enough.

But I always think that potions should have some sort of cool-down time. I really dislike games where there isn't one or it's extremely short because then you can spam potions (and if you're very rich you can just buy so many) and never die.

I like a challenge, so I say make potion drop rates higher so you have to earn them by fighting, but keep shop prices high.

That's just my stance on it. I would be kind of bummed if potions were extremely cheap and that's what everyone ended up relying on.

Or better yet, make the ingredients to potions easier to find than potions and then make them with a skill.
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#6 Aug 30 2009 at 7:30 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd rather they go the route they took with FFXI and keep them limited to small bonuses during hard fights. It just takes too much away from the support classes. I won't complain if they change it up & things still work though.
#7 Aug 30 2009 at 8:26 PM Rating: Good
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I wonder if Chemist will be in the crafting discipline. :v
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#8 Aug 30 2009 at 8:59 PM Rating: Decent
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hi potions were rewards in various ffxi quests as well... i don't think any deduction can be made on the fact they are a reward.

but i would like to see a use of potions... in other mmo's they are used quite excessively, but it would throw off balance, making party situations pointless if you carried around enough of them (sometimes).

I would definitely like to see a nice balance, it definitely felt like a missing piece in xi, where their use was so situational.
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#9 Aug 30 2009 at 9:02 PM Rating: Good
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If potions usefulness is to make a return they should stack, main reason why I never used them in ffxi.
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#10 Aug 30 2009 at 11:10 PM Rating: Decent
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They way it was handle in Monster hunter was that you could only carry 20 of any kind of potion or curative item at any time. Their was also the animation for consuming these items that would leave you vulnerable for about 3 or so seconds to any attacks coming at you.

Tho this was i na game where mobs had more diverse AI and didn't just run at you with reckless abandon and attack you till either it died or you died. The only mobs I can think of that use actual defensive maneuvers are the qiqirn rangers who were changed to run away to link other qiqirn to make things a little tougher for soloing BLM.

One could say its just another form of bad game design to have the AI of mobs do nothing more than engage and attack and use TP moves whenever. We wouldn't have to worry so much about healing so much if their were actually evasive moves at our disposal where we can actually dodge mobs attacks and they in turn try to dodge our attacks. Having defensive maneuvers merely represented as job traits is a pretty lame way to address them without actually making them substantial unless you're a THF, or PLD.

The issues with curative items boils down to the over-all combat engine and how much time we have to spend in a battle or how much time it takes to use an item, how many of these items one could carry and how defensive maneuvers are portrayed. I've always felt Monster Hunter hit the sweet spot when it comes to dealing with these aspects and I can only wish more games follow this trend.

Edited, Aug 31st 2009 3:11am by baltz
#11 Aug 31 2009 at 12:17 AM Rating: Good
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We already know SE would solve it with 2 hour medication status. That way nobody would bring too many potions!
#12 Aug 31 2009 at 12:20 AM Rating: Good
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I'm glad someone else understands the importance of having diverse and strategic enemy AIs. It can truly make or break a game in nearly any genre.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#13 Aug 31 2009 at 12:27 AM Rating: Good
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i think they said the mobs will have differents behaviours than just attack.
SE also said items will be "more" important.

now the problem with potions is for craft(alchemy) too, in ff11, not only it was a pain to sell them since they don't stack and with little benefice if any, but SE probably did ruin most of potions making by introducing lot of them(assault, casket) and alternatives(sneak tool, spectral jig), i can't think of any new interesting alchemy craft in years...

so if they handle hi-potions for starter quest i feel bad for alchemists, unless theses are 99 a stack and made 10 for a craft or something like that.

now theses are crafting issues, 99 may be a lot and could 'hurt' support/heal class(or maybe just makes them not absolutly needed for everything, at least in people mind) but "free"-"infinite" cure/support will always win imo.

also in ff11 they are a pain to use, long "cast" and you wouldn't be able to do anything for like 5s, also lost if paralized, often add a medicated statut that prevent you to take a lot of them(for the potent ones).

theses should be addressed :
-the "cast" time should be shorter, not longer than a simple "cure", i mean... not like it takes 10s to remove the cap of the bottle. <.<
-unable to do anything for that long often negate any benefice of the potion(recovering 50 hp then taking 3 hits for 100 dmg don't actually helps).
-paralized shouldn't even proc on items.
-could keep something like medicated effect, but a lot lighter than in ff11(shouldn't be more than a minute exept for things like "icarus wing").

now we didn't see much of the battle system, SE said it's faster, so medecines should be faster, and appropriates for battles.
since after the battle you can just switch weapon to mage then heal yourself, it would makes absolutly no sense not to have them that way
#14 Aug 31 2009 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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DarkBiBi wrote:
also in ff11 they are a pain to use, long "cast" and you wouldn't be able to do anything for like 5s, also lost if paralized, often add a medicated statut that prevent you to take a lot of them(for the potent ones).
Good point, in FFXII potions actually took less time to cast than cures which was one of their benefits, however I never had the desire to spend mass amounts of money on them because of the long term cost (especially when mana regeneration was more than high for everything but certain boss fights).
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I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#15 Aug 31 2009 at 1:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not very fond of consumables. The way most games implement consumables they are significantly overpowered if you take the time to farm them up; the only balancing factor is that the farming is so boring most people are unwilling to exploit the system even though it is completely exploitable.

If FFXIV has consumables, then I would like to seem them balanced with an opportunity cost rather than a monetary/time cost. consumables would have a trivial expense, but you might be limited to only 1 or 2 a fight. I don't want the dilemma to be "I will win this fight if I use potions, but do I want to spend the money?" I want it to be "How do I use these limited potions to win this fight?" Take the emphasis off economics and put it on strategy.
#16 Aug 31 2009 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
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In other MMOs (which shall not be mentioned) I usually just keep ~5 for "emergencies" and sell the rest.
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I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#17 Aug 31 2009 at 6:13 PM Rating: Good
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I think with the new crafting classes that making potions will probably be a full-time job. My guess is that they will return to regular use.
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#18 Sep 01 2009 at 10:00 AM Rating: Decent
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i think if they can make them slightly useful i am all for it.

In FFXI potions were garbage for the most part. No way would someone fill up 1 inventory spot with a 1 use item that cost so much and filled like... 100hp. That's why we had our 2 hour abilities, why use potions.

I hardly used them in WoW but they had a good balance. Pots were relatively cheap, relatively useful(not amazing or poor) and really were just secondary to be carried around not really a requirement.

Bumping up the usefulness for many of the pots from none/little to a bit/mild amount would be really nice.
#19 Sep 01 2009 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
I'm not very fond of consumables. The way most games implement consumables they are significantly overpowered if you take the time to farm them up; the only balancing factor is that the farming is so boring most people are unwilling to exploit the system even though it is completely exploitable.
I don't know, WoW's consumable system isn't so bad. If you have any experience playing before consumables were commonly used, you'd know that the difference isn't large enough to make or break any situation, but it does still reward those who are willing to go out of their way.


You are right, however. They did eventually limit certain consumables to once per fight.
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