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#1 Sep 09 2009 at 8:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think they should add a function to FFXIV called "Borrowing". With this, in the trade command, you would have "Trade" or "Borrow". If you trade, it says trade in the trade window and you do things normally like in FFXI. If you press the borrow command, a trade-like window comes up with "Borrow" so people know and don't get ripped off.

Once the borrow has been accepted, the person that owns the item still has the item in their inventory but it is shaded. Clicking on the shaded item will give them an option to "take back" the item. With a "Are you sure" yes/no second option of course.

The person that borrowed the item/s cannot drop/sell/trade/borrow to anyone else but the person that they borrowed it from. They also have the option to "Give back" the item anytime they please.

The "Give back/Take back" options will be available even if the other person is offline and can be done no matter what zone the players are in.

I think this will help people that have rare items and are willing to let others use them for a short time and not have to worry about that person logging off or switching areas.

Just something I thought about while studying for an exam, lol.

Tl;dr : Should be a borrow command in FFXIV
#2 Sep 09 2009 at 8:16 PM Rating: Good
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Great idea, and it would eliminate alot of the tension that comes from lending friends your gear.
#3 Sep 09 2009 at 8:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Considering the importance of equipment and how it currently dictates the person who is borrowing's 'job' and skillset, plus deterioration, I'm not so sure if this is a good idea.

If you have to be this cautious about lending gear to friends, I recommend getting more trustworthy ones.



Edit: Why is this sub-defaulted?

Oh alla.

Edited, Sep 11th 2009 11:34pm by Kirbster
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#4 Sep 09 2009 at 8:20 PM Rating: Default
This is a terrible idea, I also think it really devalues rare items (tradeable, anyway) if you can just be lending them out to any random newbie without any care at all.

Edited, Sep 10th 2009 12:21am by Poubelle
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#5 Sep 09 2009 at 8:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Well you would still care who you lend them out to....nothing is stopping you from lending rare equipment to random newbies either way, i think the borrow function would be awesome if implemented as TC explained it. I didn't let anyone borrow anything from me in FFXI but a friend of mine lent his Scorpion Harness to his "trustworthy" in game friend and the guy switched servers on him. Borrow would be awesome, good idea..
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#6 Sep 09 2009 at 8:49 PM Rating: Good
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TaylorFatalis wrote:


The "Give back/Take back" options will be available even if the other person is offline and can be done no matter what zone the players are in.



It might suck when both players need the "borrowed" item. I can imagine a scenario where the lender might need the equipment back from the borrower, who is off in a dangerous zone, fighting for his/her life, and all of a sudden, POOF! The equipment has magically disappeared, returned to original owner, and the borrower falls to the ground, defeated.
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#7 Sep 09 2009 at 8:59 PM Rating: Decent
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About the trustworthy thing.. There are some people I trust my account info with but if I was fighting a hard monster and someone could benefit from my ultra-rare 60mil club, the borrow command could be a useful tool.

And on the poof thing; Yeah, it sucks to have to give back things IRL when you need it but when that person needs it back, he does. I'm sure the person would have the courtesy to /tell you before he does, though.
#8 Sep 09 2009 at 9:12 PM Rating: Decent
TaylorFatalis wrote:
About the trustworthy thing.. There are some people I trust my account info with but if I was fighting a hard monster and someone could benefit from my ultra-rare 60mil club, the borrow command could be a useful tool.


That's actually one reason why I wouldn't like it.

There's a few items like the Kraken Club or (not as much) Novio Earring etc. that can be traded, but never are.
It's because these are items that get sold on RMT sites for hundreds of dollars, it's really like giving someone your account in terms of value.

So, specifically in the case of a Kraken Club, when you can just lend it someone to go ******* crazy overkill on some mission they want to beat and take it back when they're finished, it just kind of makes it stupid. ):
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#9 Sep 09 2009 at 9:29 PM Rating: Default
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There are few things as potent an RMT Bait as elite rare items that are tradeable/sellable/borrowable.

Frankly, the game would be healthier in joining the rest of the industry by letting that old mechanic rot. Not finding a convoluted way to support it.

But I applaud your willingness to think outside the box all the same.



Edited, Sep 10th 2009 1:33am by Zemzelette
#10 Sep 09 2009 at 9:42 PM Rating: Good
TheJollyjokers wrote:
TaylorFatalis wrote:


The "Give back/Take back" options will be available even if the other person is offline and can be done no matter what zone the players are in.



It might suck when both players need the "borrowed" item. I can imagine a scenario where the lender might need the equipment back from the borrower, who is off in a dangerous zone, fighting for his/her life, and all of a sudden, POOF! The equipment has magically disappeared, returned to original owner, and the borrower falls to the ground, defeated.
I want to admit I would totally do this to someone Smiley: grin
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#11 Sep 09 2009 at 10:05 PM Rating: Good
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Professor shintasama wrote:
TheJollyjokers wrote:
TaylorFatalis wrote:


The "Give back/Take back" options will be available even if the other person is offline and can be done no matter what zone the players are in.



It might suck when both players need the "borrowed" item. I can imagine a scenario where the lender might need the equipment back from the borrower, who is off in a dangerous zone, fighting for his/her life, and all of a sudden, POOF! The equipment has magically disappeared, returned to original owner, and the borrower falls to the ground, defeated.
I want to admit I would totally do this to someone Smiley: grin


That's just...WRONG! But funnySmiley: tongue
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#12 Sep 09 2009 at 10:45 PM Rating: Decent
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At first I really liked this idea, because it does allow people to let friends borrow items without the worry of having trouble getting the item back. But then I see 2 issues with it:

1) Some people will lease out their rare items for gil. For example, someone can sell the use of a kraken club for 3 days at the cost of 10,000 gil a day. Then you will have issues of people getting screwed because the kraken club was taken back early. Also, having a bunch of people shouting in town about the items they will lease out makes me want to cringe.

2) Noobs will be carrying around super rare powerful items that are borrowed from a high level friend. I really don't want to see noobs with ridiculously good items that they only have because they are borrowing them. I think it's mainly because if I see someone with a rare item, I like to think that they actually earned it.

#13 Sep 09 2009 at 11:05 PM Rating: Good
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maybe there should be a time limit on borrowed items? or possibly a "24 notification" thing that allows the borrower 24 hours to give it back after the press of the 'return' button before it's auto-returned.

I like the idea. this would also be helpful when you get a situation like some noob war is fighting H2H and you want to let him borrow you're old axe until the pt is over. For this option, a return button should read "return when party disbands" instead of the usual 24 hour button. just some ideas.


This whole 'trade' thing should be limited items that aren't even remotely rare or disposable. I, too, believe that if I see someone walking around with very rare items, I'd like to think they spent some time getting it.

Edited, Sep 10th 2009 3:08am by mithrandrk
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#14 Sep 10 2009 at 12:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Isn't someone walking around with a rare and powerful item the same as PLing someone essentially? Except you don't have to be right there with them.

Maybe the item could have a "BRW" icon on it so they can't pass it off as having their own?
#15 Sep 10 2009 at 12:13 AM Rating: Decent
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#16 Sep 10 2009 at 1:07 AM Rating: Decent
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I think it's a good idea, but there clearly should be some limits. For example rare/ex gear shouldn't be borrow-able.
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#17 Sep 10 2009 at 1:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Player1: I need my "Uber weapon of death" back now.
Player2: Hold on a second I'm soloing "Uber monster of death"!
Player1: SUX 4 J00!!
Player one retrieves the "Uber weapon of death".
Player2: Nooooooooo!1!1!!!1one
player2 is defeated by the "Uber monster of death".
Player1: Muahahahahahahahahaha!
#18 Sep 10 2009 at 4:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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I kind of like this idea. The only thing though is that instead of the weapon going poof while that person is in battle, it would more likely go poof about 10 seconds afterwards to give the person in battle time to switch to something else.

And about the trustworthy friends issue, there will always be backstabbers in the world we live in. Even RL friends will stab you in the back, so the borrow option is more viable than the trade option and it guarantees your item will come back to you.
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#19 Sep 10 2009 at 5:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Even with your best friends there is always the danger to be ripped off something, especially when its "only" Cyber friends. But on the other hand...if I even have the slightest doubt the person might keep an item I lend him for something...lol...then I wouldn't give it to him, even with a borrow option.

I lend my KC to cyber friends only in FFXI...but I was 100% sure they give it back...I even lend it to them for several days/weeks sometime for lvling their NIN or WAR, when I was in no need for zerg anytime soon. I always got it back, whenever I said I want it back.

If you can't even trust people that far online...then how the **** did you consider them to be "friends"??
There were like 20-25 german people that I always did something with from time to time...but I would consider 2 of them max as "friends"...the other 23 wouldn't even try to ask for me to lend them something thats so valuable.

Other than that...RL friends doesn't mean aynthing. I would still lend items only to RL friends I'm "really" friends with, not someone I just know personally and get along with.

Besides a borrow option sounds viable, on the other hand...what if the person logs off and the item is "saved" to his inventory while logged off. The only option would be to let the item get back to the original owner everytime the person logs off who borrowed it.
And more important to me...if people could get back their items whenever they want to, that would end up in unnecessary data traffic.

I have nothing against such an option...but I wouldn't need it.
#20 Sep 10 2009 at 5:56 AM Rating: Default
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#21 Sep 10 2009 at 6:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, no thanks. For a game that's going to be largely item based, I think you should have to earn your own items. If not for that, why play at all?
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#22 Sep 10 2009 at 6:32 AM Rating: Decent
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A function like that would has a chance of opening up methods of duping. Anyways what kind of adventurer "burrows" things from another adventurer? wouldn't one just invite that person to come along and help them take care of tasks? rather than use them for their items? I would thinking bringing a friend along and not just their equipment would be more beneficial.

This game would turn into who can borrow gear to boost themselves without having to exert themselves rather than earning things for ones self to progress.

RMT would prolly spring up with "Rent a Weapon" service and we would have to deal with legit players also getting into that practice and during a wave of bannings of RMT a few legit players get caught in the cross-fire lol
#23 Sep 10 2009 at 8:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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And don't forget that there will be gear deterioration ...
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#24 Sep 10 2009 at 8:49 AM Rating: Default
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sit in town /shout you will let newbies borrow your super +2 gear

let them borrow it
follow them to a dungeon

take back your items, watch naked newbie run from goblin
#25 Sep 10 2009 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
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ChinookFFXIV wrote:
And don't forget that there will be gear deterioration ...


Yea, this could definitely be a problem because the borrowing person might not repair the weapon or armor that they used, leaving the responsibility to the actual owner of that item.

I can definitely see a lot of disputes on this topic alone.

On the borrowing idea, I sort of like it but I sort of don't. The idea itself is sort of 'iffy', but I like the way the OP has implemented the hypothetical system.

The idea of letting the owner reclaim the item at any time, or at least give a prior warning that the item will be reclaimed shortly, is a good idea if the system were to exist. It could stamp out fraud if players were inclined to loan out their items.

Only once did I loan out an item to a friend, who needed my awesome sword to "kill a golem in a single blow". I lent it to him, but it took a few tries and lost some durability (permanently because then the NPC repairer failed). I didn't really mind though because I only used it for special occasions.

But I can definitely see repair cost disputes.

The other reason I don't really like the concept itself is because, as Zackary said, people should own their own items. That's the number one reason why I almost never lend out items or money. Not because I'm worried about being scammed, but because I feel that if "I had to work my **** off to get this item then so do you." Even if you're my friend. Otherwise people are going to be dependent on others and it will quickly turn into a "newbs depending on more experienced players for items and never learning how to do things on their own" game.

Then we'll have a game were people run around begging to borrow weapons and getting angry at higher leveled players when they disagree.

A: Hey, let me borrow that totally awesome sword! I need it to kill X monster on this quest.
B: No thanks, my team and I had to work for hours to earn this sword so I could do that quest.
A: Oh come on, I'll just "borrow" it.
B: The answer is still no. You'll have to earn it yourself.
A: Wow, what a loser! You can't even let me BORROW it?

A walks to a different part of town and spots someone else with said weapon.
A: Hey C, let me borrow that totally awesome sword!
C: Repeats cycle...

I've played enough games were beginners rely on others to do or get everything for them and I'm pretty tired of it. They need to learn how to get things themselves and do things for themselves (this includes looking for a group and working with others toward a common goal, not just being 'handed' things), otherwise you're going to have a lot of level 75 (or FFXIV skill equivalent) players with still no idea how to really play and still relying on others.

Sort of like the cliche guy who borrows his parents car, their food, their basement, etc...and never really learns how to take care of himself.
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#26 Sep 10 2009 at 9:21 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
At first I really liked this idea, because it does allow people to let friends borrow items without the worry of having trouble getting the item back. But then I see 2 issues with it:

1) Some people will lease out their rare items for gil. For example, someone can sell the use of a kraken club for 3 days at the cost of 10,000 gil a day. Then you will have issues of people getting screwed because the kraken club was taken back early. Also, having a bunch of people shouting in town about the items they will lease out makes me want to cringe.

2) Noobs will be carrying around super rare powerful items that are borrowed from a high level friend. I really don't want to see noobs with ridiculously good items that they only have because they are borrowing them. I think it's mainly because if I see someone with a rare item, I like to think that they actually earned it.



1) That's not a fault with the mechanic, just another way people abuse each other. They could still pay a high level person to do stuff for them, and that person could still bail out after they got the money.

2) Not if there's a level requirement on the particular items. If you're talking about skill, well, if their reputation is that bad all the gear in the world won't help them.
#27 Sep 10 2009 at 10:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Great idea on paper, but i'm not sold on it yet because there are many flaws.

Quote:
If you have to be this cautious about lending gear to friends, I recommend getting more trustworthy ones.


Not really, people can steal from their own mothers. You really don't know if they are "trustworthy" until you get burned, and by then its too late. So recommending some trustworthy friends don't really help. Life long friends can stab each other in the back, it happens all the time in real life. It might sound far off in a video game, but there are people that are addicted to games and would do anything to become the "best".

Quote:
There's a few items like the Kraken Club or (not as much) Novio Earring etc. that can be traded, but never are.
It's because these are items that get sold on RMT sites for hundreds of dollars, it's really like giving someone your account in terms of value.


This is not true, people traded kraken clubs all the time within my linkshell and on the server. Same-thing for novio, as I have lent out mine within the linkshell many times and it was always returned. Even though these items are rare (kraken more then novio), they still get lent out between friends. I have played with a kraken club and it wasn't mine (it was great). I also returned it, and as far as I know, nobody stuff was stolen at all.

Now for my faults

Quote:
1) Some people will lease out their rare items for gil. For example, someone can sell the use of a kraken club for 3 days at the cost of 10,000 gil a day. Then you will have issues of people getting screwed because the kraken club was taken back early. Also, having a bunch of people shouting in town about the items they will lease out makes me want to cringe.


This is a huge fault for me. This will be abused by the players and is just a shady tactic. Selling your gear is one thing, but renting out all rare stuff (that can be traded) and making a fortune just sounds shady. This will also put even more of an emphasis on gil, and less of an emphasis on working to get that item yourself.

Another fault that I don't think was mentioned was what about gear breaking. How would one repair wore down gear if it is borrowed out. Could just the original owner repair it or can the person that borrowed it? I think the breaking down of gear will discourage people lending out their gear in the first place. If borrowing gear is discouraged then what is the need for a borrow feature.

With all that said, here is my conclusion. It sounds like a great idea on paper, but has too many flaws to be implemented (in my opinion). If the gear is able to be traded, then either lend it out (taking the risk), or keep your gear. This at least would encourage people to get their own stuff, and not just borrow other people's gear all the time. This results in people encouraged to play through the content for the gear, instead of skipping content through borrowing gear.

#28 Sep 10 2009 at 8:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Skill caps would also limit ones ability to borrow high level stuff, you'd only be able to beg those that either saved some decent stuff around your level. In the end players should just buy or earn their own, not borrow. Borrowing would be used to circumvent the purchasing process and peeps would just hoard gil.
#29 Sep 13 2009 at 12:30 AM Rating: Good
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How about time limit system? Something along the lines of "Player1 lends Golden Subligar to Player2 for 1 week." That way Player2 doesn't have his inventory disappear in the middle of battle (unless he's really bad at keeping track of time) and Player1 is still guaranteed to get his subligar back.
#30 Sep 13 2009 at 10:50 AM Rating: Default
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Poubelle, Star Breaker wrote:
TaylorFatalis wrote:
About the trustworthy thing.. There are some people I trust my account info with but if I was fighting a hard monster and someone could benefit from my ultra-rare 60mil club, the borrow command could be a useful tool.


That's actually one reason why I wouldn't like it.

So, specifically in the case of a Kraken Club, when you can just lend it someone to go @#%^ing crazy overkill on some mission they want to beat and take it back when they're finished, it just kind of makes it stupid. ):


Yah this is why no MMO should do this.

"LOL I spend 20 mil on this item just so another guy can use it" you might think this would help gimps but it wouldn't really I mean why try when you can just leech? YOU (the reader) probable would go against this thought but some people would think that and go with it.
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