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Would you consider learning japanese for FFXIV??Follow

#1 Sep 10 2009 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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Learning a second language is always something I've wanted to do, and it seems to me FFXIV is the perfect opportunity to make use of one.

It's something I considered in XI, but it seemed as though it was too much work, and that by the time I learned it, the game might have slowed down alot. When they announced that the servers would be mixed again I started considering it once more. Since we have about a year to a year and a half to go before XIV is released, learning japanese seems like a good way to pass the time.

I heard alot of good things about the rosetta stone program, so I acquired that along with the japanese lessons. So far I'm impressed with how easy it is. The best thing about it is it doesn't rely on memorizing words and phrases, and it lets your brain make all its own connections, which at least for me works far better.

I hope that in the game being able to speak to entire other group of players will open alot more opportunities to advance in the game and meet people. I also feel like it will help break down the barrier of communication if more players on both sides learned one anothers languages. (not to mention being able to enjoy some of the loads of entertainment japan produces.)

I think by the time the game comes out I could be fluent, if only at a basic level.

If you have past experience, feel free to share tips or information that could help in the learning process.

I'm also curious as to how many people feel the same way as I do.

#2 Sep 10 2009 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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auto translate
#3 Sep 10 2009 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
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For XI, I decided to learn japanese. I took two years of nihongo (japanese) in high school. I learned enough through class and extra studying to at least understand what Japanese people were saying basically. In multi-languaged parties, I was often the translater and the Japanese players were very nice about it. If you ask them, they'll speak in very basic terms to get their point across to you in an understandable way. I've never a japanese player leave the party or anything because i didn't know enough. Also, the majority of japanese players will use romaji for you, romaji is basically japanese words written in english lettering i.e. "chotto nihongo wo hanashimasu" as opposed to "ちょっとにほんごをはなします".

My experience learning Japanese was well worth it indeed, and many multi ethnic parties did very well because I was there to help.

PS the ladies love it when I speak japanese to them lol

EDIT: for typos

Edited, Sep 10th 2009 5:11pm by mithrandrk
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#4 Sep 10 2009 at 1:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I actually tried to learn some Japanese back when I was playing XI. It went ok, though I've forgotten most of what I learned (hard to maintain when there's no one to speak to).

I was too cheap to shell out for Rosetta Stone (though I do hear it's the best). I tried Mango and had pretty good success. It's a really nice interface and focuses more on conversation than word memorization.

[Edit]Holy crap, Mango got EXPENSIVE!! I used it for free... Maybe it was still in beta [/edit]

It's nice that most Japanese players speak English anyway (though don't always choose to), but I always feel like the 'dumb American' when I only speak my native language. And no, Pig Latin doesn't count.

Edited, Sep 10th 2009 4:13pm by striveldt
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#5 Sep 10 2009 at 1:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I would love to, but I'm fail when it comes to learning languages. I live in Canada where we had to take french from kindergarten straight through grade 9, and I STILL can't speak a word of it.
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#6 Sep 10 2009 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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I've tried learning Japanese on several occasions way back when I was in 7th grade (I'm 23 now) just because I was very interested in the language. I found a good website and used it for a while, but eventually the website went offline and has been since.

So I gave up on learning for a few years, and tried once more when I was in high school by buying some study guides...but studying for school and applying for colleges quickly interfered.

In college I tried learning some more through the Rosetta Stone program that my roommate had. His brother used it to help him study Japanese in conjunction with taking formal classes. His brother is spending a few years in Japan doing Christian Missionary work (not my thing, but at least I got some studying done because of it).

But the Rosetta Stone didn't teach me a lot of things that I felt that I needed to know. Maybe because it was a much older version than the ones today, but I'm not sure. It jumped right in to teaching me vocabulary without even mentioning the Hiragana or Katakana, which I thought was weird. And it seemed like arbitrary words like "horse" and "elephant" were among the first few words.

So I eventually found a great website called Nihongo Resources. The site has a lot of areas that are not finished, but the section I use mostly is the "Lessons" section.

Start with lessons 0, which will teach you the Hiragana and Katakana, as well as the proper strokes for writing them. I found it extremely informative.
I practiced writing and memorizing them all every day over my sophomore winter break, and eventually moved on to Lesson 1.

Each lessons has word lists, phrases, an introduction, and kanji for the word lists. It also provides history on some phrases, how to properly use them, how it differs from English, etc etc. Very very helpful. I learned a lot from that website.

I think Rosetta Stone and it's counterpart, Pimsleur, are good for an introduction to a language, but the two best ways to really learn it is to either take a formal class or to immerse yourself in the language.

For example, watching probably over a hundred subtitled anime shows over the past 6 years has taught me more Japanese than any book or lesson ever has. Of course, you need to watch them with the plan on learning the language in your mind. Watching mindlessly and reading the text isn't going to be as effective as actively paying attention to what is being said and what you're reading.

You'll quickly pick up vocabulary and eventually verb conjugations too.

Unfortunately, school got in the way again for me and I had to stop learning the language for a while.

I recently started up again because I have more time and I also bought the newest Rosetta Stone lessons for Japanese.

FFXIV or not, I'm definitely going to keep studying the language. Knowing that FFXIV is coming out and with cross-region servers just gives me another reason.

tl:dr version: Yes

EDIT: The website also has a 308 page downloadable (free) book written by the author called "an introduction to Japanese syntax, grammar and language" on the website. I just found this now.

Edited, Sep 10th 2009 5:23pm by Finaa
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#7 Sep 10 2009 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
I have a minor in Japanese and don't bother to translate PT chit-chat most of the time, it just requires paying too much attention. In game conversations also tend to have quite a bit of slang which makes things confusing. If you're going to try though, get IME so you can type in kana/kanji.
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#8 Sep 10 2009 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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#9 Sep 10 2009 at 1:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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The chances seem slim, but I'm hoping a great deal that SE has decided this time to give the English versions of the game an IME hook. Having to breaking the acceptable use agreement and use 3rd party programs just to could communicate with half of the world population was a little unreasonable.


On topic, I personally have never used Rosetta Stone or its analogies, but I have taken 3 semesters of Japanese, and it's not something you should decide to take up lightly. Japanese is syntactically and symbolically completely different than the romance and germanic languages. Even in the third semester, I very rarely actually attempt to talk to Japanese players because I am afraid my skills aren't up to par yet. If you hope to achieve fluency before FFXIV comes out, I'd say that's nearly impossible. If you just want to be able to say "I have sword" or "That is a rock", sure, Japanese is a great language and a lot of fun to learn. Just don't go in expecting to be bi-lingual in a year.

Edited, Sep 10th 2009 5:54pm by Hulan
#10 Sep 10 2009 at 2:03 PM Rating: Good
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Second Language? <|No Thanks.|> <|Auto-Translate|>? <|Yes, Please|>

Edited, Sep 10th 2009 6:03pm by chemicalpenguin
#11 Sep 10 2009 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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The other thing to keep in mind is that if you want to learn Japanese exclusively for FFXIV, you won't have to learn nearly as much as you would if you were planning on moving to Japan, for example. But you would have to learn more obscure words that you wouldn't be using every day.

I would imagine that even learning the Katakana alone would be a big help. I'm not sure what the Japanese version of FFXI is like, since I never played it, but I am assuming that a lot of skills, item names, and spell names, would be similar enough that if you know the Katakana you could communicate those at least. (Assuming this since the race names are written in Katakana)

Mirthandrk mentioned earlier that the Japanese mostly used romanji in FFXI, which would probably mean that some words are similar enough to their western counterparts if you understand the syllabic nature of the language and how certain 'letters' are pronounced (such as the 'u' sound not being pronounced nearly as prominently as it is in the English language).

So you could probably do well to know key phrases like "nice to meet you" and "I have to go".

But what you're going to be talking about in the game is probably going to be limited to the game. You'll have to learn words associated with the game as well...words in regards to skills that we don't even know exist yet.

But you won't have to learn the entire language.
I doubt you'll be telling a group of Japanese friends that "this morning I woke up late, took a shower, grabbed an orange, and barely made it to work on time. Then my boss got mad at me and I was almost fired! I'm so glad to be home and playing FFXIV!"

If you could that might be cool, but it's not too important.

But if you want to learn it for the game just make sure you learn verb conjugations. You don't want to say "You can use that skill after I use this one" when you meant to say "I can use this skill after you use that one".

So I figure key phrases, learning the japanese equivalents for spell names, learning the Katakana, and verb conjugations are going to be the most important things.
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#12 Sep 10 2009 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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m not sure what the Japanese version of FFXI is like, since I never played it, but I am assuming that a lot of skills, item names, and spell names, would be similar enough that if you know the Katakana you could communicate those at least.
yup

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Auto-Translator:_In-Depth/All_Categories
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#13 Sep 10 2009 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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Go for it if you're interested. I have used Rosetta as a supplement to classes for a while now, and that's pretty much all it is unless you're willing to learn the writing on your own. If you are willing to spend the time learning the language on your own, check out げんき (Genki); it's a textbook that is about only fifty dollars and can take you through quite a bit of the language. There are also additional resources such as workbooks and audio CD's to go along with it if the practice in the back is not enough for you.
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#14 Sep 10 2009 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I took Japanese in high school. Not because of XI - I didn't start playing XI until almost my senior year. But I'm glad I had XI, it was a pretty helpful at-home study.

I've since forgotten a lot of it, but it wouldn't take long to get used to again.
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#15 Sep 10 2009 at 4:44 PM Rating: Decent
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I already know several languages (to varying degrees of fluency)...I'm afraid if I try to learn one more my mind might explode. Besides, most Japanese know English anyway (the younger, the more likely), they're only playing around with you if they say otherwise.
#16 Sep 10 2009 at 5:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I tried teaching myself Japanese in high school just for fun, but I didn't retain much. I wish I new Japanese, but not enough to actually learn it.

So, no.
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#17 Sep 10 2009 at 6:14 PM Rating: Good
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I'd rather learn an actually useful language, and I wouldn't even consider doing that if my only reason for doing so was a game.
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#18 Sep 10 2009 at 7:02 PM Rating: Decent
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No, but I learned a lot of slang and how to recognize "hello" and "w" among other things.

Context is awesome to learning a new language and I think that playing with a Japanese group would help you in conjunction with a formal learning program.

There was a list somewhere of common FFXI phrases and how to recognize the Kanji,Kata and Romanji.

It is on my list of languages to learn. I need to finalize my Spanish, move on to French then I'll try Japanese.
#19 Sep 10 2009 at 8:55 PM Rating: Good
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Pluelf wrote:
I'd rather learn an actually useful language, and I wouldn't even consider doing that if my only reason for doing so was a game.
The thing about learning a second language is that once you do, it makes learning a third or even a fourth a lot easier. Take that for what it's worth, I guess.
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#20 Sep 10 2009 at 9:01 PM Rating: Good
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Any reason to learn a language is reason enough. Learning just for the sake of learning an extra language wouldn't be as effective.
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#21 Sep 11 2009 at 3:32 AM Rating: Good
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No way in ****
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#22 Sep 11 2009 at 4:06 AM Rating: Default
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Just for one video game? No. I'd learn it just so I could watch my anime/read my manga a day or two earlier, but even then ... its only a day or two wait. Maybe if I were to get stationed in Japan it'd be different, but beyond that, not really worth the effort.
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#23 Sep 11 2009 at 6:10 AM Rating: Good
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As mentioned the first thing you'll want to do is learn Hiragana and Katakana which is pretty easy. It only took me an afternoon to memorize Hiragana and an hour to memorize Katakana with this site.

http://www.realkana.com/

It lets you select a group of syllables to memorize 1 set, and when you do add another set and repeat till you've memorized them all.

A lot of the syllables are recycled so some you just have to keep trakc of the tenten(lines that look like quotes) and the maru(the little circle) and recognize when ya yu, and yo are tacked on and also to keep track of shi/ji and chi/ji. Following these sames rules speads up learning katana.

Also you'll normally when learning Japanese you'd be taught formal Japanese and later pick up informal dialects.

the same goes for Japanese people who attend English language schools in japan, who later pay native English speakers for private lessons to teach them less formal English.

I use a memorization program called Anki to input Vocabulary words from the lesson book(Called "Minna No Nihongo I") I use for my Japanese language classes while I'm here in japan to not only memorize vocab, but also to memorize kanji. When you can read Hiragana you can just input vocab to show in kanji and have the answers in Hiragana.

can get the program here:

http://ichi2.net/anki/index.html

you can use it for memorizing anything and also apply audio and images to the editable cards. I think you can also add video.

Another thing you will require is situations you will actually use the language for practice to of course.
#24 Sep 11 2009 at 9:51 PM Rating: Decent
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HA! no... the voice over is in english and so is the text besides I'm not up when they are on so its a waste of my time. Isn't learning english standared in japan's schools? Sounds like they would have more incentive to learn english, just saying.
#25 Sep 11 2009 at 10:18 PM Rating: Decent
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i guess learning another language is always a good thing, i mean i would rather tell myself i was diversifying my cultural understanding, if i can use it in a game thats cool. but whatever bursts ur bubble
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#26 Sep 11 2009 at 11:54 PM Rating: Good
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baltz wrote:
As mentioned the first thing you'll want to do is learn Hiragana and Katakana which is pretty easy. It only took me an afternoon to memorize Hiragana and an hour to memorize Katakana with this site.

http://www.realkana.com/

It lets you select a group of syllables to memorize 1 set, and when you do add another set and repeat till you've memorized them all.

A lot of the syllables are recycled so some you just have to keep trakc of the tenten(lines that look like quotes) and the maru(the little circle) and recognize when ya yu, and yo are tacked on and also to keep track of shi/ji and chi/ji. Following these sames rules speads up learning katana.

Also you'll normally when learning Japanese you'd be taught formal Japanese and later pick up informal dialects.

the same goes for Japanese people who attend English language schools in japan, who later pay native English speakers for private lessons to teach them less formal English.

I use a memorization program called Anki to input Vocabulary words from the lesson book(Called "Minna No Nihongo I") I use for my Japanese language classes while I'm here in japan to not only memorize vocab, but also to memorize kanji. When you can read Hiragana you can just input vocab to show in kanji and have the answers in Hiragana.

can get the program here:

http://ichi2.net/anki/index.html

you can use it for memorizing anything and also apply audio and images to the editable cards. I think you can also add video.

Another thing you will require is situations you will actually use the language for practice to of course.


Thanks for the program link, has been a great refresher for me.

As for the statement I bolded. I actually spent 1.5 years in Japan as part of a Language exchange program when I was 16. At the time, Japanese students learned the English Alphabet, but rarely learned "Conversational" English in school. So our task was to take those core elements and apply them to the actual use of the English Language in "spoken" scenario. Many struggled with anything outside of the basic greetings.

To my surprise the same situation applied to Japanese. In my 6 years of learning the language (College, Inlingua Language Institute and intensive total immersion situation in Japan etc) rarely did what I learned in the classroom or via textbook study... ever prepare me for a simple conversation with someone under the age of 30.

What was truly saddening about the hundreds of hours I spent learning Japanese, was that after making a few friends there, %90 of what I had learned in terms of formal Business focused and etiquette based dialogue went right out the window when learning how to speak like everyone else did on a casual basis.

A simple yet strict phrase such as "One Beer please." (Biiru o hitotsu onegai shimasu.) was reduced to "Biiru'n hoshi." (Kansai dialect)

It became nearly impossible to catch up with the slang. It outpaced your level of intake with the language. By the time you mastered the youthful placement of "Awesome!" (Suge!).. "Kakoiii!" (Really awesome) had replaced it.

Learning a language for a game such as this would be a challenge. I think tackling the menu system wouldn't be that bad, but given that most of the Storyline is cutscene based and would not stop for you to interpret like traditional 'line by line' text based dialogues, it would pose quite a challenge. Not only in understanding the basic sentence structure, but also what dialect or artistic license that Square chose to present the Japanese language in regards to setting and slang.

For instance, if you had someone that learned English language by the book, but was then presented with a John Wayne film, just try and imagine how difficult that would be to follow. The film would be our modern day interpretation of a period dialect, but would extremely difficult for someone to follow with the basic English language tools at hand.

In closing I would say that you can learn the Menu System probably with a bit of practice (Translating Katakana for certain terms etc etc), but when it came to the story line you would be quite lost in my honest opinion. Judging from the extreme use of outlandish places names there will be a heavy use of Katakana and bizarre descriptions for things that will be difficult to place in terms of function. ("Guileve" comes to mind)
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#27 Sep 12 2009 at 2:17 AM Rating: Default
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i pity people who can only speak 1 langauge. I think its rather sad and those people are most likley to be very narrow minded (like the person quoted below). My parents raised me with 3 languages already, and although when i was a kid i didnt understand why, i am so very, VERY grateful they did now. I geuss you will see the profit only once you've learned the language (or are old enough to understand, in my case)

I also learned Japanese a few years ago when i bought the "Genki" books mentioned here before. Please start learning a second language, because it will open so much more for you. I can also recommanded using the two Genki books, although those are really the only books ive tried so far, so maybe there are some better books. The genki books start very basic. I would also suggest finding a mate to study with, because studying alone is pretty boring and very hard. the most important tip i can give you is to start learning kanji's RIGHT AWAY! seriously, I didnt, and I was so far behind with kanji's once i i did start learning. Im happy i can read about 300 now, but ive got a looong way ahead of me to be able to read everything (which is about 2000 kanji'). use Kanji flashcards (http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Kanji-Flashcards-Vol-Third/dp/0974869449), they are very handy and i just take them everywhere for teaching.

Anyway, for the love of god, PLEASE start leaning second language while you still can.


Pluelf wrote:
I'd rather learn an actually useful language, and I wouldn't even consider doing that if my only reason for doing so was a game.


I hope you are 10 years old, because i cant blaim you for saying this, but if you're not ... You're pretty much the most retarded person I've ever come across. An actual useful language you are talking about? I dont think you can speak of a language being more useful than other languages, becuase it depends on your personal goals. However, if you WOULD take a general look into it, i would say Japanese is a very good choice seeing it has second biggest GDP in the world. Apart from that, i for one, know that the English capability in Japan is still rather poor (although it is getting better nowadays)
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#28 Sep 12 2009 at 4:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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As a reason to learn a language, enhancing your video game experience has to be the worst reason I have ever heard for learning a new language. However, as others have pointed out, anything that motivates a person to study another language is a positive influence.

Japanese is a very difficult language to learn compared to many others if English is your native language. Unless you are driven by a career choice or have an extraordinary interest in Japanese culture I think it is not the best choice for a second language because it really will be a very difficult and time consuming undertaking.

The practical disadvantages of learning Japanese also arise from the fact that the Japanese are ultra-protectionist and a very closed society. This greatly diminishes the opportunities for using your very hard won language skills to advance a career compared to learning German, Russian, Spanish, French, Mandarin, Italian, Portugese, Arabic or one of the major languages spoken throughout India or sub-Saharan Africa.
#29 Sep 12 2009 at 5:25 AM Rating: Good
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Akkio wrote:
i pity people who can only speak 1 langauge. I think its rather sad and those people are most likley to be very narrow minded (like the person quoted below). My parents raised me with 3 languages already, and although when i was a kid i didnt understand why, i am so very, VERY grateful they did now. I geuss you will see the profit only once you've learned the language (or are old enough to understand, in my case)

Pluelf wrote:
I'd rather learn an actually useful language, and I wouldn't even consider doing that if my only reason for doing so was a game.


I hope you are 10 years old, because i cant blaim you for saying this, but if you're not ... You're pretty much the most retarded person I've ever come across. An actual useful language you are talking about? I dont think you can speak of a language being more useful than other languages, becuase it depends on your personal goals.


American kids would be much better served by improving in math and science before worrying about learning multiple languages.

If students are required to take another language in school, that language should be Spanish, for practical reasons. Like it or not, learning other languages just isn't useful for 99% of the US population due to our geographic isolation from countries that speak other languages. I took three years of German in high school and college, and outside of watching WWII movies, I've not used it once. It would have been far more practical to have spent those credit hours on an intro to finance course, or an advanced English composition course.
#30 Sep 12 2009 at 7:39 AM Rating: Good
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If you are willing to spend the time learning the language on your own, check out げんき (Genki); it's a textbook that is about only fifty dollars and can take you through quite a bit of the language. There are also additional resources such as workbooks and audio CD's to go along with it if the practice in the back is not enough for you.

I also, amongst a few others, recommend this book. It was my college textbook for my first two semesters of Japanese, and it was pretty fantastic. There's also a workbook that goes with it (I forget if you have to buy it separately or not), so I'd recommend that as well.

As far as my own two cents in the whole "learning a language" issue, I think it comes down to learning a language you might find actually practical.

Quote:
If students are required to take another language in school, that language should be Spanish, for practical reasons. Like it or not, learning other languages just isn't useful for 99% of the US population due to our geographic isolation from countries that speak other languages. I took three years of German in high school and college, and outside of watching WWII movies, I've not used it once. It would have been far more practical to have spent those credit hours on an intro to finance course, or an advanced English composition course.

I do agree with a lot of this, but not the way it's being presented. Fact-of-the-matter is, learning German in this case ended up being impractical for you because you've never decided to go to Germany or come in regular contact with German people or the language in everyday life. On the other hand, if you know beforehand that you're going to be around the language a lot, then it does make sense to learn it. You're right that Spanish is probably the most practical language in the modern American context. However, learning something like Japanese might be very practical not only for the game but also for the real world should you decide to, say, have a lot of exposure to Japanese things.

So, in truth, I am a little mixed. I had enough credits to be able to take multiple Japanese classes (which, mind you, were some of my most enjoyable college classes), but as a History / International Affairs major with a focus on Eastern History, it was extremely practical. That being said, I can see how I'd be the 1% in your example.

To the OP: Learn the language if you think it'll be useful elsewhere (as I have found it), or if you just have enough free time and want to learn a language. Honestly, I think it's probably been the easiest language for me to pick up, since I have never seemed to grasp another quite like it. Hope you enjoy it if you do decide to go all the way.
#31 Sep 12 2009 at 8:52 AM Rating: Good
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SEforPrez wrote:

American kids would be much better served by improving in math and science before worrying about learning multiple languages.

If students are required to take another language in school, that language should be Spanish, for practical reasons. Like it or not, learning other languages just isn't useful for 99% of the US population due to our geographic isolation from countries that speak other languages. I took three years of German in high school and college, and outside of watching WWII movies, I've not used it once. It would have been far more practical to have spent those credit hours on an intro to finance course, or an advanced English composition course.
On the contrary. I took Spanish in high school, and have honestly never used it for anything beyond listening to crazy Mexican ladies scream at their kids in the supermarket. And that's saying something, as I live in Orlando, Florida. We're not exactly isolated from the latino community or anything.


****, I used Portuguese more than I've used Spanish, and that's saying something. Granted, I grew up in New Bedford, Massachusetts, so I suppose that isn't that hard to believe. Smiley: lol


Edit: By the way, as a point of reference, I speak English and Portuguese on a fluent level, Japanese and Spanish on a passable level. So to reiterate what I said above, learning a language after your second is astronomically easier, especially if that second language is based around a different set of characters to your first.

Edited, Sep 12th 2009 12:55pm by Zackary
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#32 Sep 12 2009 at 9:20 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm learning japanese anyway, probably more for anime and stuff than anything else.
#33 Sep 12 2009 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
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spanish Chinese arabic these are all much more useful than japanese. As for spanish, a decent chunk of the population speaks spanish, this becomes realy apparent when you live in a place like san antonio which is one of the top 10 cities in the nation and half of the population is hispanic.
#34 Sep 12 2009 at 3:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Akkio wrote:
i pity people who can only speak 1 langauge. I think its rather sad and those people are most likley to be very narrow minded (like the person quoted below). My parents raised me with 3 languages already, and although when i was a kid i didnt understand why, i am so very, VERY grateful they did now. I geuss you will see the profit only once you've learned the language (or are old enough to understand, in my case)

I also learned Japanese a few years ago when i bought the "Genki" books mentioned here before. Please start learning a second language, because it will open so much more for you. I can also recommanded using the two Genki books, although those are really the only books ive tried so far, so maybe there are some better books. The genki books start very basic. I would also suggest finding a mate to study with, because studying alone is pretty boring and very hard. the most important tip i can give you is to start learning kanji's RIGHT AWAY! seriously, I didnt, and I was so far behind with kanji's once i i did start learning. Im happy i can read about 300 now, but ive got a looong way ahead of me to be able to read everything (which is about 2000 kanji'). use Kanji flashcards (http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Kanji-Flashcards-Vol-Third/dp/0974869449), they are very handy and i just take them everywhere for teaching.

Anyway, for the love of god, PLEASE start leaning second language while you still can.


Pluelf wrote:
I'd rather learn an actually useful language, and I wouldn't even consider doing that if my only reason for doing so was a game.


I hope you are 10 years old, because i cant blaim you for saying this, but if you're not ... You're pretty much the most retarded person I've ever come across. An actual useful language you are talking about? I dont think you can speak of a language being more useful than other languages, becuase it depends on your personal goals. However, if you WOULD take a general look into it, i would say Japanese is a very good choice seeing it has second biggest GDP in the world. Apart from that, i for one, know that the English capability in Japan is still rather poor (although it is getting better nowadays)



I appreciate your pity, God knows I need it with my narrow mind. I can speak three languages fluently, which is more than I can say for your English based on the crap you typed out.

As for why one you can't understand why one language would be more useful than another, I don't how you could not see that. You could perhaps consider what % of the population speaks that certain language, and how likely you are to encounter it in a situation where it is useful to know. I mean, I could learn to talk in clicks as they do in some places in Africa, and how would that serve me? Alternatively, a person could study a more common dialect such as English, French, or Spanish.

Have fun with your flash cards buddy.
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#35 Sep 12 2009 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I plan to learn japanese one day, I have rosetta stone for it but have yet to actually start. It would be nice to have at least started before ffxiv comes out. :p
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#36 Sep 12 2009 at 4:25 PM Rating: Decent
Akkio wrote:
i pity people who can only speak 1 langauge. I think its rather sad and those people are most likley to be very narrow minded (like the person quoted below). My parents raised me with 3 languages already, and although when i was a kid i didnt understand why, i am so very, VERY grateful they did now. I geuss you will see the profit only once you've learned the language (or are old enough to understand, in my case)

I also learned Japanese a few years ago when i bought the "Genki" books mentioned here before. Please start learning a second language, because it will open so much more for you. I can also recommanded using the two Genki books, although those are really the only books ive tried so far, so maybe there are some better books. The genki books start very basic. I would also suggest finding a mate to study with, because studying alone is pretty boring and very hard. the most important tip i can give you is to start learning kanji's RIGHT AWAY! seriously, I didnt, and I was so far behind with kanji's once i i did start learning. Im happy i can read about 300 now, but ive got a looong way ahead of me to be able to read everything (which is about 2000 kanji'). use Kanji flashcards (http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Kanji-Flashcards-Vol-Third/dp/0974869449), they are very handy and i just take them everywhere for teaching.

Anyway, for the love of god, PLEASE start leaning second language while you still can.


Pluelf wrote:
I'd rather learn an actually useful language, and I wouldn't even consider doing that if my only reason for doing so was a game.


I hope you are 10 years old, because i cant blaim you for saying this, but if you're not ... You're pretty much the most retarded person I've ever come across. An actual useful language you are talking about? I dont think you can speak of a language being more useful than other languages, becuase it depends on your personal goals. However, if you WOULD take a general look into it, i would say Japanese is a very good choice seeing it has second biggest GDP in the world. Apart from that, i for one, know that the English capability in Japan is still rather poor (although it is getting better nowadays)


You're really mean, and you can't spell. Go away.
#37 Sep 12 2009 at 6:13 PM Rating: Default
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You should look at learning chinese, I suspect there will plenty speaking that language.

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#38 Sep 12 2009 at 8:14 PM Rating: Good
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I've thought about picking the language up, but mainly more for satisfying curiosities with anime and manga. As is, I want to say I've picked up on a number of common phrases just watching subs, but I'd still be a lot of trouble if suddenly dropped off in Japan.

Main problem I had in picking up an alternate language, which was French in high school, and a bit of German and Latin before that, was that I had nobody to converse it with in a casual environment and didn't exactly have media like anime or manga to keep things fresh or test my retention. Nowadays I know **** well I couldn't speak French off the top of my head, but I still might be able to read and understand a modest amount.

Of course, I'd still have a similar issue in terms of speaking with others locally Japanese, and as is, if someone catches me watching a show, their immediate reaction is to make some bad kung fu noises and think I'm nuts.
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#39 Sep 12 2009 at 10:13 PM Rating: Decent
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They just need to put the full google translate into the game. That would be great.
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#40 Sep 12 2009 at 10:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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If you are willing to spend the time learning the language on your own, check out げんき (Genki); it's a textbook that is about only fifty dollars and can take you through quite a bit of the language. There are also additional resources such as workbooks and audio CD's to go along with it if the practice in the back is not enough for you.
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I took three years of German in high school and college, and outside of watching WWII movies, I've not used it once. It would have been far more practical to have spent those credit hours on an intro to finance course, or an advanced English composition course.
My friend took German in high school, went to college for physics, and ended up with an internship in Germany doing optics and digital processing, my old mentor took japanese and ended up working at a Japanese research company post-doc, and when I was job hunting several companies were interested in me because they had partnerships with Japanese firms. If you don't do anything with it of course it's not helpful, but that's true of the courses you mentioned too.
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#41 Sep 13 2009 at 11:46 PM Rating: Good
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I really want to, the Japanese language has always sound very beautiful to me. It one of the ones I want to learn a long with french, german, russian, and italian. Being active duty military there is a chance I could be station in Italy, or Japan so knowing what the native language would be rather handy.
#42 Sep 14 2009 at 12:38 AM Rating: Decent
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masterofwind wrote:
I really want to, the Japanese language has always sound very beautiful to me. It one of the ones I want to learn a long with french, german, russian, and italian. Being active duty military there is a chance I could be station in Italy, or Japan so knowing what the native language would be rather handy.


I know a little of each - Russian, German (learned in high school), French, and Italian. Stationed aboard the USS LaSalle, flagship of the sixth fleet, homeport Gaeta, Italy (hour train ride south of Rome). I've been to 31 countries, and some of the souvenirs I would pick up would include a basic phrase book of the native language, a nation flag, a map, a bottle of wine, some currency, and Cuban cigars.
In retrospect, I wish I had chosen to take Spanish in high school. I've visited a few places where it would have been useful, like Barcelona, Malaga, and Santa de Mallorca, Spain, and all of the state of California.
I also took a year of French in highschool, which I remembered some of it when I visited Monte Carlo, and Toulon, France. When I tried speaking some German in Wernegeroede, Hamburg, Berlin, Braunschweig, and Muenich, all of the Germans recognized my American accent, and immediately replied in perfectly spoken British English. I visited my friend's Gymnasium (advanced high school) for a day. In every class they spoke in English, even the Geography class. My high school didn't even teach GeographySmiley: laugh I had to learn it by traveling.
Good luck in the military! Overseas is definitely the way to go, especially if you are single.

Edited, Sep 14th 2009 1:50am by TheJollyjokers
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#43 Sep 14 2009 at 1:15 AM Rating: Good
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SEforPrez wrote:
American kids would be much better served by improving in math and science before worrying about learning multiple languages.

If students are required to take another language in school, that language should be Spanish, for practical reasons. Like it or not, learning other languages just isn't useful for 99% of the US population


Actually, Learning an additional language helps you beyond the "oh look I can speak to whoever barely fluently" It helps you develop an understanding of grammar systems and such like. MFL (modern foreign languages) is getting a push in English schools because of these benefits. I do see your point of not doing MFL in place of more "useful" lessons but kids will just switch off if it's non-stop of the same curriculum. There already is too much pressure on teachers to provide results increasing "useful" will just increase the pressure on teachers to teach for exams and not to teach for learning.
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#44 Sep 14 2009 at 1:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Commander Sahaya wrote:
SEforPrez wrote:
American kids would be much better served by improving in math and science before worrying about learning multiple languages.

If students are required to take another language in school, that language should be Spanish, for practical reasons. Like it or not, learning other languages just isn't useful for 99% of the US population


Actually, Learning an additional language helps you beyond the "oh look I can speak to whoever barely fluently" It helps you develop an understanding of grammar systems and such like. MFL (modern foreign languages) is getting a push in English schools because of these benefits. I do see your point of not doing MFL in place of more "useful" lessons but kids will just switch off if it's non-stop of the same curriculum. There already is too much pressure on teachers to provide results increasing "useful" will just increase the pressure on teachers to teach for exams and not to teach for learning.


Well said.

Actually if you have ever taken any kind of Cognitive Science or Innateness course in college you learn a lot about how the human mind uses language as the vocabulary of thought as young as 13 weeks after birth.

A common example to demonstrate the importance behind that concept is often pointed out by Kant. Close you eyes and try NOT to think. It is impossible. Words and their subjective relation to your surroundings, objects and ideas are in a constant flow throughout your consciousness. Even your dreamstate is controlled by words and the memory of dream-based imagery post-facto is described by... words.

Language gets really interesting when you learn one not native to your own that has multiple descriptors for the same meaning. There are several variations for the word "Love" in Japanese and they all have specific criteria for their usage. When you start dreaming in a foreign language you start to discover that you can explore the memory of it in a completely different fashion.

Anyone advocating against learning another language, ever at a later age is basically telling you to restrict the method of objective relation to everything you see around you... in another way. It is arrogant to say the least and reminds me of people that refuse to believe that Homer, Shakespeare or any of the other literary greats authored their ideas in anything other than American English (With the added southern accent).

Back on topic I would use the simple example of a Dubbed foreign film compared to one that is subtitled. It is so bitter sweet when you actually catch the cultural reference with a joke that a dubbed version would just glaze over for the sake of simplicity. If anything, learning Japanese to understand that subtle Square-Enix humor that lies dormant in their storyline, dialogue and character names is worth the time to learn it. Again though, as I stated before, it would take a tremendous amount of time and effort to consume all of that before FFXVI is released.
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#45 Sep 14 2009 at 2:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Commander Sahaya wrote:
SEforPrez wrote:
American kids would be much better served by improving in math and science before worrying about learning multiple languages.

If students are required to take another language in school, that language should be Spanish, for practical reasons. Like it or not, learning other languages just isn't useful for 99% of the US population


Actually, Learning an additional language helps you beyond the "oh look I can speak to whoever barely fluently" It helps you develop an understanding of grammar systems and such like. MFL (modern foreign languages) is getting a push in English schools because of these benefits. I do see your point of not doing MFL in place of more "useful" lessons but kids will just switch off if it's non-stop of the same curriculum. There already is too much pressure on teachers to provide results increasing "useful" will just increase the pressure on teachers to teach for exams and not to teach for learning.
I'm stealing your avatar idea. Hope that's cool.
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But in doing so I came across the will to disagree.
And I gave up. Yes, I gave up, and then I gave in.
But I take responsibility for every single sin. ♪ ♫


Thank god I stopped playing MMOs.
#46 Sep 14 2009 at 3:12 AM Rating: Good
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Zackary wrote:
Commander Sahaya wrote:
SEforPrez wrote:
American kids would be much better served by improving in math and science before worrying about learning multiple languages.

If students are required to take another language in school, that language should be Spanish, for practical reasons. Like it or not, learning other languages just isn't useful for 99% of the US population


Actually, Learning an additional language helps you beyond the "oh look I can speak to whoever barely fluently" It helps you develop an understanding of grammar systems and such like. MFL (modern foreign languages) is getting a push in English schools because of these benefits. I do see your point of not doing MFL in place of more "useful" lessons but kids will just switch off if it's non-stop of the same curriculum. There already is too much pressure on teachers to provide results increasing "useful" will just increase the pressure on teachers to teach for exams and not to teach for learning.
I'm stealing your avatar idea. Hope that's cool.


It's cool. I appreciate all forms of Hayley Williams.
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#47 Sep 14 2009 at 6:58 AM Rating: Good
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Close you eyes and try NOT to think. It is impossible.
I can do it, it took a lot of meditation training though.
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#48 Sep 14 2009 at 7:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Professor shintasama wrote:
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Close you eyes and try NOT to think. It is impossible.
I can do it, it took a lot of meditation training though.


It's pretty easy to do when sleep deprived. Smiley: lol
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#49 Sep 15 2009 at 3:58 AM Rating: Good
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Didn't do it for FFXI, probably won't do it for this game either. Especially when the game will take a lot of focus off party play.

Edited, Sep 15th 2009 7:58am by Multidude
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#50 Sep 15 2009 at 4:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Not gonna happen.
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#51 Sep 15 2009 at 7:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Regardless, you'll never be considered as Japanese.










And they're not gonna respond to your romaji.
isn't it sad? ;_;
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