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#1 Sep 12 2009 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good
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So gameplay for FFXIV is getting released on youtube now. An example of one such video is linked below - (I would post this under FFXIV thread but my question is to FFXI players):-

If the fight system looks like this would you swap to FFXIV? And comments...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP4CBYImMb0&NR=1
#2 Sep 12 2009 at 3:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Abbottone wrote:
So gameplay for FFXIV is getting released on youtube now. An example of one such video is linked below - (I would post this under FFXIV thread but my question is to FFXI players):-

If the fight system looks like this would you swap to FFXIV?



No.

Try playing RNG sometime and you'll understand why having to manually select every action sucks.
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#3 Sep 12 2009 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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Can someone explain exactly what is happening? To me it looked just like FFXI where he was just doing a WS every 20-30seconds, but from what Lobi said I feel like I missed something.

Edited, Sep 12th 2009 5:57pm by Overburn
#4 Sep 12 2009 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
To me it looked just like FFXI where he was just doing a WS every 20-30seconds


Exactly, I keep watching this and /facepalming
#5 Sep 12 2009 at 4:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Overburn the Fussy wrote:
Can someone explain exactly what is happening? To me it looked just like FFXI where he was just doing a WS every 20-30seconds, but from what Lobi said I feel like I missed something.


That's pretty much what the combat is. There is no auto attack at all, and you have a bunch of WS to use with a pair of gauges determining what you can use, when you can use it, and how much damage it will do. Honestly, to me it looks and sounds like it's going to be incredibly uninteresting and ridiculously repetitive.
#6 Sep 12 2009 at 4:15 PM Rating: Default
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It's the same as FFXI except with no auto attack. Somehow the developers think this is good.

Trust me when I tell you that it is not. This is basically what RNG is in FFXI and it sucks.



Edited, Sep 12th 2009 9:16pm by Lobivopis
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#7 Sep 12 2009 at 4:17 PM Rating: Decent
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I hope they didn't mean to show the game off with that clip. If they did... well, SE is just as laughable as I expected them to be then.

I keep waiting for the one day they'll exceed my low expectations of them and I just doesn't ever happen.

Edited, Sep 12th 2009 7:18pm by bsphil
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#8 Sep 12 2009 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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The developers have even admitted that people will have a hard time communicating while having to select every action in combat. Their response was basically "we'll see how it works out"


Edited, Sep 12th 2009 9:30pm by Lobivopis
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#9 Sep 12 2009 at 4:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Turin, Eater of Souls wrote:
Overburn the Fussy wrote:
Can someone explain exactly what is happening? To me it looked just like FFXI where he was just doing a WS every 20-30seconds, but from what Lobi said I feel like I missed something.


That's pretty much what the combat is. There is no auto attack at all, and you have a bunch of WS to use with a pair of gauges determining what you can use, when you can use it, and how much damage it will do. Honestly, to me it looks and sounds like it's going to be incredibly uninteresting and ridiculously repetitive.
That's how WoW's abilities work, but you still autoattack between their usage.

For example, as a Rogue, my Gnome has an attack called Gouge. I can use it every 4 seconds. If I understand the above right, all you now have are these abilities....

That's... so terrible... I knew this game was going down the wrong path, but now it looks like they just decided to take the express elevator to Sucksville.

... Shut up, it's the best I've got at the moment...

Edited, Sep 12th 2009 8:34pm by Pawkeshup
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The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#10 Sep 12 2009 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Pawkeshup the Ludicrous wrote:
Turin, Eater of Souls wrote:
Overburn the Fussy wrote:
Can someone explain exactly what is happening? To me it looked just like FFXI where he was just doing a WS every 20-30seconds, but from what Lobi said I feel like I missed something.


That's pretty much what the combat is. There is no auto attack at all, and you have a bunch of WS to use with a pair of gauges determining what you can use, when you can use it, and how much damage it will do. Honestly, to me it looks and sounds like it's going to be incredibly uninteresting and ridiculously repetitive.
That's how WoW's abilities work, but you still autoattack between their usage.



Here's the problem. There is no auto attack in FFXIV at all. To swing your weapon you have to manually select that. And the developers actually think people are going to enjoy this.
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#11 Sep 12 2009 at 4:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Lobivopis wrote:
Pawkeshup the Ludicrous wrote:
Turin, Eater of Souls wrote:
Overburn the Fussy wrote:
Can someone explain exactly what is happening? To me it looked just like FFXI where he was just doing a WS every 20-30seconds, but from what Lobi said I feel like I missed something.


That's pretty much what the combat is. There is no auto attack at all, and you have a bunch of WS to use with a pair of gauges determining what you can use, when you can use it, and how much damage it will do. Honestly, to me it looks and sounds like it's going to be incredibly uninteresting and ridiculously repetitive.
That's how WoW's abilities work, but you still autoattack between their usage.



Here's the problem. There is no auto attack in FFXIV at all. To swing your weapon you have to manually select that. And the developers actually think people are going to enjoy this.
I know, that's why I said it's horrible game design. No one would ever want to sit there and do that.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#12 Sep 12 2009 at 4:36 PM Rating: Decent
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That looks horribly boring.
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#13 Sep 12 2009 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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In b4 Aikar writes an auto-attack hook.
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#14 Sep 12 2009 at 4:47 PM Rating: Default
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Pawkeshup the Ludicrous wrote:
Lobivopis wrote:


Here's the problem. There is no auto attack in FFXIV at all. To swing your weapon you have to manually select that. And the developers actually think people are going to enjoy this.
I know, that's why I said it's horrible game design. No one would ever want to sit there and do that.


Yes but how many years have people been saying "Auto attack is boring make combat interactive" It's one of those things that people think they want but which in reality is a terrible, terrible idea.


I guess SE listened to the wrong people, again.


Manually executing repetitive actions in a game is tedious. This is why they make game controllers that have an auto fire switch. (this is also why not having an auto fire in 2-D shoot-em-ups is terrible game design)

Edited, Sep 12th 2009 9:56pm by Lobivopis
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#15 Sep 12 2009 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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lol'd @ comments thinking it's turn based as if XI or even XII doesn't exist. I would pass my judgment when it's more complete, but I'm not going to play it and XI is my last and only MMO game.
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#16 Sep 12 2009 at 4:55 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm a little confused by the people calling it "boring" and "repetitive"...

I mean you do realize you're currently playing a game that primarily consists of simply auto attacking stuff and hitting a ws or ja every so often... thats way more boring than the system that XIV seems to use.
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#17 Sep 12 2009 at 4:56 PM Rating: Default
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PlanckZero wrote:
I'm a little confused by the people calling it "boring" and "repetitive"...

I mean you do realize you're currently playing a game that primarily consists of simply auto attacking stuff and hitting a ws or ja every so often... thats way more boring than the system that XIV seems to use.


Play RNG and you'll see why the other option is even worse.
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#18 Sep 12 2009 at 5:01 PM Rating: Default
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Play RNG and you'll see why the other option is even worse.


You're making the assumption that ranged jobs in XIV will work on the same exact principals as ranger in XI.

You're also making judgments on an entire games battle system on how it may effect a single job.
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#19 Sep 12 2009 at 5:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lobivopis wrote:
PlanckZero wrote:
I'm a little confused by the people calling it "boring" and "repetitive"...

I mean you do realize you're currently playing a game that primarily consists of simply auto attacking stuff and hitting a ws or ja every so often... thats way more boring than the system that XIV seems to use.


Play RNG and you'll see why the other option is even worse.


Been there, done that, boo hoo can't make a sandwich between WS.

Really, there are also times where auto-attack has been harmful, usually involving slept mobs.

Edit: Of note, this was also released by IGN of Gamescon footage, and therefore nothing really new that we hadn't seen up until now. I imagine when you start tossing things like the XIV equivalent of Marches and Haste (gear) together, those attack bars will be flying and upping interactivity further. Heaven forbid we PLAY our games and not watch them play themselves.

Edited, Sep 12th 2009 9:10pm by Seriha
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#20 Sep 12 2009 at 5:05 PM Rating: Default
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PlanckZero wrote:
Quote:
Play RNG and you'll see why the other option is even worse.


You're making the assumption that ranged jobs in XIV will work on the same exact principals as ranger in XI.

You're also making judgments on an entire games battle system on how it may effect a single job.


Even if it's more complex than that I still do not want Rock'em Sock'em Robots with leveling. That will get very tedious very quickly.

The developers have even said that they expect it will make typing difficult in combat.

Edited, Sep 12th 2009 10:07pm by Lobivopis
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#21 Sep 12 2009 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm pretty sure everyone's mileage will vary in terms of gameplay. Furthermore, I don't feel like judging a game based on one Youtube video, that clearly isn't complete and has yet to go through any form of beta testing.
#22 Sep 12 2009 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
Lobivopis wrote:
PlanckZero wrote:
Quote:
Play RNG and you'll see why the other option is even worse.


You're making the assumption that ranged jobs in XIV will work on the same exact principals as ranger in XI.

You're also making judgments on an entire games battle system on how it may effect a single job.


Even if it's more complex than that I still do not want Rock'em Sock'em Robots with leveling. That will get very tedious very quickly.

The developers have even said that they expect it will make typing difficult in combat.

Edited, Sep 12th 2009 10:07pm by Lobivopis


Noone will force you to play. You can still play XI when XIV comes out. You're bashing a game that hasn't even come out yet. The videos that are out now are all still in Alpha stage, which means there is a lot of room for improvement. I've leveled RNG, and it's one of the more fun jobs I've played with, so I don't know what the **** you are talking about when you say bad things about the class.
I love FFXI, but I love the Final Fantasy series more. I wouldn't miss at least trying FFXIV out for the story, exploring, and adventuring. If it sucks, fine. At least I tried it.
#23 Sep 12 2009 at 5:33 PM Rating: Default
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I sometimes feel if there is some big joke Im missing that suddenly it just hits me mid-flow like this video >.o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6518MXL737E&feature=popular
#24 Sep 12 2009 at 6:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Edit: Neeevermind, found it mahself.

I wonder, though, if the pace in that video is just because it's either such an early build, missing abilities, or that person didn't know what they were doing. I can't imagine the whole game would put you through that pace in every battle.
But.... who the **** knows. Guess it's worth keeping an eye on.

And for the record, I have played rng for almost 6 years now, and I kinda like the additional control, myself. Auto-attack always sorta bugged me, it just felt so boring and lacked any real interaction. Turn it on and watch? Dunno.


Edited, Sep 12th 2009 8:17pm by AmanoJ
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#25 Sep 12 2009 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
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You have to take into account that the video was most likely from GamesCon and that mostly everyone didn't know how to play properly. In videos with Tanaka the fighting is a little bit more exciting if you ask me since he DOES know how to play. I'm sure that it may more or less be like FFXI in terms of fighting without auto-attack but I always heard that melee classes were a bit boring because of the auto-attack(with exception of pressing weaponskills, macros). And now that they add something to liven up the action people still aren't satisfied, but I guess that's just how it goes.

;o?
#26 Sep 12 2009 at 8:20 PM Rating: Good
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I've played RNG, and it was more fun than the melee jobs that sit around doing nothing.

I have no love for auto-attack. Having said that, A-button mashing has never been a good mechanic either. Combat should be interactive-- it's not as though the only options are automatic attack mashing or manual attack mashing.

I don't mind having to constantly choose my attacks as long as there's an actual decision-making process to it-- in fact I'd prefer it. If there's a sufficiently strategic element to choosing your attacks, bring it on. Hopefully that process speeds up with time so that the pace is challenging.
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#27 Sep 13 2009 at 12:27 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
So gameplay for FFXIV is getting released on youtube now. An example of one such video is linked below - (I would post this under FFXIV thread but my question is to FFXI players):-

If the fight system looks like this would you swap to FFXIV? And comments...


That guy spammed weapon skills instead of using normal attacks. It was quite clear that the guy didn't know how to play at all. Only reason he could have spammed those ws's as much as he did was because he got TP from 3 mobs hitting him at once. If he had used normal attacks instead of "zomg flashy move spam spam spam *You cannot use the skill at this time*" he wuld have gotten tp faster, the combat would've looked smoother and he could've used more ws's as well.

So yes, if the fight system is hard enough that you can't master it as soon as you pick up the keyboard I'll be quite satisfied with it.

Edited, Sep 13th 2009 8:29am by Hyanmen
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#28 Sep 13 2009 at 1:25 AM Rating: Default
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I kind of figured that a lack of experience might of been the case in that video. I would hold the accusations until we see some better footage from someone who's actually played the game a bit more. As for difficulty typing while in combat, tough luck. If you absolutely need to talk to your party members in a case of emergency why not just hold your attack off for a second or two. I think it will cut back on the boredom quite a bit, I can't even count how many times I've been partying with people at 3:00 in the morning and fallen asleep at the computer only to be jolted awake by <call1>.

I also think that there will be some way of setting up your attacks so you can do them while typing and if not I'm ok with it, I can type fairly quick.
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#29 Sep 13 2009 at 1:41 AM Rating: Default
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Even Im set up ventrilo, typing is soooooooo FFXI.

I hope you are right about the person not knowing about how to play....but how many times have we said "Hope", "Wait and see...." "we dont know enough yet..." but we turned out to be right to critise in first place.

However if FFXIV looks like this, I think FFXI should rest assured of their own gamelife as I doubt the exodus will be that large.


#30 Sep 13 2009 at 1:54 AM Rating: Good
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I think you're over reacting.
What have we done in since FF1 Right up until FF10? That's right, manually input attack every time, auto attack didn't exsist, I'm not saying it was necissarily fun, but it was tried and tested for over 20 years with success

All the devs have done is bought back an old turn based style and implimented it into and MMO, which is pretty clever since its most the closest you're gonna get to a turn based battle system without it actually being a turn based mmo
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#31 Sep 13 2009 at 1:56 AM Rating: Default
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However if FFXIV looks like this, I think FFXI should rest assured of their own gamelife as I doubt the exodus will be that large.


Yes, I'd say it's quite understandable that the combat of a game in early alpha would look worse than that of a game's that has been fully up and running for years now.

Something was said about the game being 40-50% done... might be linked to the quality of gameplay somehow.
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#32 Sep 13 2009 at 1:58 AM Rating: Decent
In an interview somewhere it was said that you can set up a macro to mimic auto-attack, but it will be more difficult. Auto-attack was a good function imo, but I played games before it, hopefully I can get used to playing with out it again.

I was showing one of my WoW friends some videos and screenshots, explaining some of the game functions to him, and after almost everything I said, he replied "Oh, like WoW." I don't dislike WoW, or its player base, but it's a little infuriating watching a game, whose release you're anticipating, disappoint you with almost every update.

But, I'm also excited about alot of things they've implemented. From what I can tell, I think the thing I'll miss most is grinding. I disliked fields of valor, because when you got in a party that utilized it, they'd always want to run back and re-up, even though the time lost running back wasn’t worth the xp lost.

I'm hoping that they'll have Leves with like... 200ish monsters to kill. So you'd be like, "Hey guys everyone get the ____ Leve, it should last us a couple hours". This could be good or bad though... If you had to leave early, you wouldn’t finish the leve. But, it would also deter people from leaving because of trivial things. They said you could carry alot, but from the pics I've seen, one only had 9 monsters on the one leve. I'd hate to have to return to collect XP after every 9 monsters.

tl;dr: I'm still on the fence. I've never been disappointed with a FF game. (No, not even 8. X-2 doesn’t count.) I'll try it either way, but I think I'll still be coming back to XI for grinding purposes.
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#33 Sep 13 2009 at 2:03 AM Rating: Good
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I disliked fields of valor, because when you got in a party that utilized it, they'd always want to run back and re-up, even though the time lost running back wasn’t worth the xp lost.


It takes longer to get the page than to kill 4+ IT mobs? I think you're underestimating the exp you get from each page..
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#34 Sep 13 2009 at 2:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Renowaikk, Pie Eating Champion wrote:
They said you could carry alot, but from the pics I've seen, one only had 9 monsters on the one leve. I'd hate to have to return to collect XP after every 9 monsters.


Once you finish a Guildleve a warp point opens and you can go right back if you want to. It should save a little time on the return trip at least.

Renowaikk, Pie Eating Champion wrote:

tl;dr: I'm still on the fence. I've never been disappointed with a FF game. (No, not even 8. X-2 doesn’t count.) I'll try it either way, but I think I'll still be coming back to XI for grinding purposes.


VIII had the worst combat system in the series and was way to talky with a silly plot that didn't make a bit of sense. X-2 had one of, if not the best combat systems in the series and a silly emo teen angst driven plot that while incredibly uninteresting at least made sense. Basically if you can ignore the fact that the story is a complete waste of time, X-2 is actually one of the best games in the series in terms of gameplay.
#35 Sep 13 2009 at 3:42 AM Rating: Decent
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tanaka said there will be macro, i guess IF the basic system is 100% manual, the macros will be somewhat more potent that ff11 with maybe "loops" (and why not "if"... just not as much as ff12 please)

that way you could play manualy if you like, and makes a macro "auto-attack" if you have to afk 2 mn
#36 Sep 13 2009 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Turin, Eater of Souls wrote:
VIII had the worst combat system in the series and was way to talky with a silly plot that didn't make a bit of sense.
Yeah, just when you thought FF8 was bad, then came along time compression.

And yeah, I hated the magic/junction system.

DarkBiBi wrote:
tanaka said there will be macro, i guess IF the basic system is 100% manual, the macros will be somewhat more potent that ff11 with maybe "loops" (and why not "if"... just not as much as ff12 please)

that way you could play manualy if you like, and makes a macro "auto-attack" if you have to afk 2 mn
Nobody is going to prefer to manually melee every single swing. If everyone is just going to make an auto-attack style macro, why not just include auto-attacking in the game?

It's like SE goes out of their way to find new ways to fail.

Edited, Sep 13th 2009 12:52pm by bsphil
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#37 Sep 13 2009 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Wow, is forum=10 really that full of FFXIV haters who look for any excuse to bash the game into oblivion (and SE while they're at it)? Or are they simply unable to grasp the concept that this is an early build just meant to show the graphics and a little bit about what the game will be like? Compare FFXIII's battles to this clip and you should be able to understand how early of a build this is.
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#39 Sep 13 2009 at 12:31 PM Rating: Good
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You guys don't have it quite right. Once again you are translating FFXI mechanics into FFXIV which doesn't work. It's not like the RNG where instead of getting an auto attack you have to click "attack" to get your white damage (not sure if that's a FFXI term...if not it basically means the damage you do from autoattack) and every once in a while you get to use a WS or ability. It's best to think of it like everyone is a caster now. A caster doesn't have white damage but uses a variety of abilities...the only difference is the range and type of damage. There is no "attack" button but a range of abilities to use.

#40 Sep 13 2009 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
TauuOfSiren wrote:
Wow, is forum=10 really that full of FFXIV haters who look for any excuse to bash the game into oblivion (and SE while they're at it)? Or are they simply unable to grasp the concept that this is an early build just meant to show the graphics and a little bit about what the game will be like? Compare FFXIII's battles to this clip and you should be able to understand how early of a build this is.


forum=10 = Moved thread from FFXI forums. Apparently, some people are upset about how XIV's release might affect their life in XI, and I understand that.

The XI diehards are afraid of:

1) their friends migrating en masse to XIV, splitting the XI community in two
2) server mergers, which could affect a lot of the endgamers and some LS's, in a bad way
3) SE not supporting new expansions/updates for XI once XIV is released
#41 Sep 13 2009 at 1:08 PM Rating: Excellent
Yeah, but VIII had that super awesome addictive card game!
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#42 Sep 13 2009 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not going to make any judgments about the combat system until I actually play the game for myself.
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#43 Sep 13 2009 at 1:41 PM Rating: Decent
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moistturtle wrote:


The XI diehards are afraid of:

1) their friends migrating en masse to XIV, splitting the XI community in two
2) server mergers, which could affect a lot of the endgamers and some LS's, in a bad way
3) SE not supporting new expansions/updates for XI once XIV is released


QFT^^

Let the cynical diehards of FFXI continue to delude themselves. FFXIV is not only going kill off FFXI, but Aion and WoW too. All this complaining because you can't auto-attack like in FFXI, boo hoo... who cares. Maybe now, you can invite a DRK to a party and know they aren't making a sandwich or surfing ****. The one thing that truly bothers me in a party is watching stupid melees standing there with weapons drawn and no mob in sight. Those lazy melee bums better stick to what's left of FFXI after 90% of the population jumps platforms.
#44 Sep 13 2009 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
And yeah, I hated the magic/junction system.
but it was soo easy to exploit for uber chars!
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#45 Sep 13 2009 at 2:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Junction was awesome.. every time I discovered a new spell I just drew and drew until I had 255 of it.
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#46 Sep 13 2009 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
Junction was awesome.. every time I discovered a new spell I just drew and drew until I had 255 of it.


Yeah. I felt so uber when I drew 255 Meteor for every one of my characters. It was at that point I decided to take on Ultima/Omega Weapons.

Edited, Sep 13th 2009 6:27pm by moistturtle
#47 Sep 13 2009 at 2:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Let the cynical diehards of FFXI continue to delude themselves. FFXIV is not only going kill off FFXI, but Aion and WoW too.
Yeah, speaking of delusional ...
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#48 Sep 13 2009 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
It does look a little more interesting than XI, but still way too slow to resemble any sort of realistic combat. That's one thing that auto-attack did at least, made you feel like you were attacking instead of just standing there until you decide to do something.

I'm perfectly fine with the idea that we chain moves and use abilities for each attack, but they need to pick the pace way up then. Make it so you do like jab>jab>sweep attack for instance in the matter of 5 seconds (Like a fighting game, or heck any FPS game, and I think it would transfer well to this), not sweep attack, wait 20 seconds, sweep attack, etc. It just makes it so slow as to look unrealistic, and if it's completely unrealistic looking combat it undermines the sense of reality that all the other beautiful graphics create. (And it looks boring to boot)


Edited, Sep 13th 2009 4:28pm by digitalcraft
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#49 Sep 13 2009 at 3:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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A few things to keep in mind:

While the developers said there will be no auto-attack the gameplay that we saw was done by people who had never even seen the game before. They knew nothing of the commands or how anything worked. That is probably why it looks dull to so many people.

Also, the gamplay was of an alpha-build. Battle mechanics have not been smoothed out either. The demo was made to show the guildleve system and how it worked. The demo was not made to show us the wonders of their battle system. The developers have already told us that the purpose of that demo was the demonstrate the guildleve system.

Furthermore, it's already pretty obvious that the game is going to be heavily based on skill usage. We learn skills by using our weapons and, probably, by using other skills. I'm speculating that skills will have ranks or increase in strength the more they are used, so it will make sense to use skills as often as possible. Learning new skills might also mean using older skills. Also, upon using a weapon you may be able to use that skill, but in order to actually 'memorize' it (and be able to use it still even when using another weapon of the same type (i.e. swords)) you may need to use that skill very often.

So I think that the reason there isn't going to be an auto-attack is because we won't need an auto-attack.

This is entirely speculation on my part. I'm only formulating a hypothesis about why they might have removed the auto-attack feature.

Whether it's going to make for an awful game, I can't really say until I've tried it.
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#50 Sep 13 2009 at 3:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lobivopis wrote:
No.

Try playing RNG sometime and you'll understand why having to manually select every action sucks.


If we're lucky, FFXIV's combat will have more in common (feel-wise, at least) with the warden class from LotRO. Wardens only have three very basic attacks, and it's how/when/in what order you use them that comprise the class' "skills". Sounds simple on paper, but there's a lot of player skill and knowledge involved in playing one well.

Speculative example of what I'm thinking:

The warrior-type job in FFXIV has a skill called Overhead Smash on a moderate cooldown (whatever that may be for the pace of the combat system). If used while the mob is facing you, it's a basic damage-dealing skill. If used at the mob's back, it does more damage and acts as a taunt of some sort. If used while the mob is using an induction, it acts as an interrupt (in addition to the above effects). You now have a single skill that can do three different things depending on how and when you use it.

Edited, Sep 16th 2009 12:37am by CapnCrass
#51 Sep 13 2009 at 5:56 PM Rating: Decent
2 posts
CapanCrass wrote:
The warrior-type job in FFXIV has a skill called Overhead Smash on a moderate cooldown (whatever that may be for the pace of the combat system). If used while the mob is facing you, it's a basic damage-dealing skill. If used at the mob's back, it does more damage and acts as a taunt of some sort. If used while the mob is using an induciton, it acts as an interrupt (in addition to the above effects). You now have a single skill that can do three different things depending on how and when you use it.


SE was saying that they were going to make strategic positioning a main part of the combat. I am personally all for this seeing as most other games don't do anything like this. I've played a few other MMOs since I left FFXI and it really didn't matter where you were outside of if your a ranged attacker you stay away and if your melee you stand near. Atleast in FFXI there were a few things to consider, I mostly played BRD and in some cases I needed to set up 3 different areas of effect.
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