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#1 Sep 14 2009 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm really excited about ffxiv, one thing I'm not so excited about is resting. As a blm in FFXI I hated it. I could see resting after a certain amount of fights, but resting after and during every fight was ridiculous. It was also weird that every spell in FFXI cost 15-20% of my mp pool as a taru. I liked it when the mast cost of a regular elemental spell was around 24 not 160. The less resting the better.I'de rather have longer times in between rests, a Mage auto refresh, and items like potions and ethers etc. be more important at a cheap cost. Also it just made the game boring. I cast an awesome spell then I go sit down? Wait what?

So questions, would you like /heal to be implanted still? If so do you like it the way it is or would you change it? Also would you like parties to be more traditional and not exclude mp jobs (besides the healer) allowing jobs like blm and hopefully smn to join in. I'de love to have healer DD Tank magic DD and a buffer or other DD involved in a pt. That's so much more exciting than DDx3 healer bufferx2. So thoughts?
#2 Sep 14 2009 at 2:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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I still want resting in the game, just not the point where it cripples jobs.
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#3 Sep 14 2009 at 2:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can completely understand the complaint. Honestly I liked resting, especially mid battle in FFXI. It was pretty much the only strategy there was to being a mage; coordinating your rests to simultaneously optimize both DPS and downtime was an art. For me, nuking was mindlessly easy; resting was the most thought intensive and skillful activity in combat as a mage.

I don't believe it necessarily belongs in FFXIV or that the game would be better off for having it, but it can add an additional degree of depth to the game that might be sorely needing it.
#4 Sep 14 2009 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
I want to see some sort of worthwhile, native, in combat regen/refresh. AFKing for 10 minutes soo your melee can get back to full health sucks. Being able to switch to healing magic after battle is nice, but it should be an incentive to level mage jobs not a necessity for every player.
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#5 Sep 14 2009 at 2:51 PM Rating: Decent
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It is all about balance. If you don't want to rest than that means your spells won't be as potent as to allow for multiple casts. I would rather have more powerful spells that can be cast less often than the reverse.
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#6 Sep 14 2009 at 3:02 PM Rating: Decent
L2 had a good balance, if I went ~60-80% of max spell dmg output my mana would regen enough where I could keep going without resting.
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#7 Sep 14 2009 at 3:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sorry, I disagree a bit. That's like you need to rest or melée hits will be 50% slower and you miss more. It's also about fun. It's not that exciting sitting down watching your character's back. I actually like seeing the spell animations so casting more would be nice to me. This was the first FF where resting was implemented before you used potions or a tent or went to an inn. Auto regen/refresh would be awesome.
#8 Sep 14 2009 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
Worthwhile hp/mp restore items would also be nice.
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#9 Sep 14 2009 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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Obiar wrote:
It is all about balance. If you don't want to rest than that means your spells won't be as potent as to allow for multiple casts. I would rather have more powerful spells that can be cast less often than the reverse.


I prefer to be always active, which is why I enjoyed playing RDM. It had a lot of spells that, by themselves, were relatively weak but when combined they were game changing. Anyway, because I like being active I'm not a very big fan of resting the way it was implemented in FFXI...I suppose it could be kept if there were some tweaks, like giving you food or drink that boosted your natural ability to rest.
#10 Sep 14 2009 at 3:17 PM Rating: Good
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it would be great if mana pool was significantly smaller but regenerated much faster. Much like ffxiii's system where the tp gage works for both physical attacks and manna but you limited bye how fast and how much of the bar you use. This can keep you on your feet and casting but its a give and take between fast low cost casts or long large cost casts
#11 Sep 14 2009 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good
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Dantedmc wrote:
I'de rather have longer times in between rests, a Mage auto refresh, and items like potions and ethers etc. be more important at a cheap cost.


...and stackable drinks?
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#12 Sep 14 2009 at 3:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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For the record, I asked the S-E team at our recent retail sales conference about this (they were showing the footage of guild leves), and they dodged the question...
Personally, I don't think resting fits their new "Casual, less time restraints" attitude.

Maybe it works that everytime you touch and Aerthyte crystal you get hp and mp restored, so that each guild leve starts you with max hp and mp. How it's regened from there i have no idea...
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#13 Sep 14 2009 at 3:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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I would like to see a relatively fast Regen/Refresh effect kick in whenever your weapon is stowed.
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#14 Sep 14 2009 at 5:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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maybe something like FF12 where chains can restore a little HP/MP?

Cool to see some kind of new skillchain2.0 where it is more useful.
like Light SC has aoe Cure and other cool bonus effects aside from more dmg to make them useful.
#15 Sep 14 2009 at 7:02 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd like to see a small native hp/mp regen on par with XI's auto-regen & auto-refresh, but I'd still want resting to be a fast way to recover.
#16 Sep 14 2009 at 7:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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I hope resting isn't the ridiculous kneeling position if they add it. Yoga is not actually that relaxing.
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#17 Sep 14 2009 at 8:17 PM Rating: Decent
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They need better natural regen. I think WoWs regen is a little bit over the top but FFXI was like Final Restasy tbph. Leveling the SMN ability was nothing at all short of a nightmare.
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#18 Sep 14 2009 at 9:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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BluemageOfDoom wrote:
maybe something like FF12 where chains can restore a little HP/MP?

Cool to see some kind of new skillchain2.0 where it is more useful.
like Light SC has aoe Cure and other cool bonus effects aside from more dmg to make them useful.


I think that is the most ridiculously...great idea I've heard all week.

I hope they do that.
#19 Sep 14 2009 at 11:13 PM Rating: Good
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Lefein wrote:
They need better natural regen. I think WoWs regen is a little bit over the top but FFXI was like Final Restasy tbph. Leveling the SMN ability was nothing at all short of a nightmare.
How is WoW's regen over the top? Most classes don't have a really good way to regen HP unless you have a way to actually heal yourself. There is of course the method that people have continuously mentioned above, and that is consumables that restore HP. In WoW it's bandages, which are fairly cheap/easy to obtain and are a decent way to get your HP up if your class doesn't have native heals.


The mana regen in WoW isn't even enough to cover you though. A lot of times you WILL burn through the mana you have, so being able to micromanage your mana output is actually a mechanic that makes playing your class a little more difficult. I like that, and think that it fits perfectly with the style of game it is.
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#20 Sep 15 2009 at 12:03 AM Rating: Decent
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It should recover naturally maybe 1% Hp/MP recovered every second and instead of pressing a button to sit down if you stay still that number doubles to 2% every second. Also mobs should drop Hp and Mp orbs that recover you some, just a thought.
Also I think you should be able to move around while casting just like with melee but receive an accuracy bonus for staying still.
#21 Sep 15 2009 at 1:22 AM Rating: Good
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And you'll still get mages that don't bring cookies/drinks. Although a lot of them were just leveling sub jobs so it may not be so bad this time.
#22 Sep 15 2009 at 8:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:

The mana regen in WoW isn't even enough to cover you though. A lot of times you WILL burn through the mana you have, so being able to micromanage your mana output is actually a mechanic that makes playing your class a little more difficult. I like that, and think that it fits perfectly with the style of game it is.


I personally did not feel very challenged by WoW's mana regen.
This is speaking from the perspective of playing healing classes in WoW for BC through WotLK.

For the most part I didn't give my mana pool a second thought.
When they announced the Mana Regen nerf and the Rapture nerf I was actually excited for the challenge it would present, and subsequently dissapointed when the nerfs were treated with kid gloves. Even when fighting General Vezax (who puts a halt to all mana regen and severely restricts mana regen techniques) I was more concerned with positioning than mana.

I agree that this fits perfectly with the style of game WoW is.
But, I'd prefer something a little more aggressive for FFXIV.



Edited, Sep 15th 2009 12:17pm by Zemzelette
#23 Sep 15 2009 at 8:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Zemzelette wrote:

I personally did not feel very challenged by WoW's mana regen.
This is speaking from the perspective of playing healing classes in WoW for BC through WotLK.


Mana regen at the later end of BC to beginning of WotLK was buffed because Blizz didn't want the healers to have to worry too much about their mana. They are slowly heading back to mana conservation though.
#24 Sep 15 2009 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
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I have been having mana management problems in my transition from heavy spirit gear to spell power rejuv spam gear, so I can't say I feel the same way. My Shaman has always been a mana battle, but that's just part of Shaman healing.
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#25 Sep 15 2009 at 9:22 AM Rating: Decent
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First off, let's get back to the topic at hand. This isn't a WoW board.

I remember when I first started FFXI, and I didn't know what TP was. Honestly (this is no joke) I thought they were 'Tired Points' or something. I discovered that when I rested, my TP went down. Clearly, resting wasn't explained very well in the beginnings of the game.

That said, I don't mind having to rest, but I'd like to have the option to use a pot or bandage or something of the sort to speed it up if I so choose.
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#26 Sep 15 2009 at 9:33 AM Rating: Decent
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striveldt wrote:
First off, let's get back to the topic at hand. This isn't a WoW board.

I remember when I first started FFXI, and I didn't know what TP was. Honestly (this is no joke) I thought they were 'Tired Points' or something. I discovered that when I rested, my TP went down. Clearly, resting wasn't explained very well in the beginnings of the game.

That said, I don't mind having to rest, but I'd like to have the option to use a pot or bandage or something of the sort to speed it up if I so choose.
The point was, at least I think, to make a reasonable argument that the "resting" system in WoW isn't so bad, and could be loosely implemented in another game.

Most of us are in favor of easily gotten, consumable healing items, and an active mp refresh system, but just to a certain extent. I suppose I agree that I would like something more challenging in XIV, but I think that it will be a little harder to achieve because of the way the "leveling" system is going to be. Standardizing your hp/mp regain is going to be a tad awkward.

I do hope they do away with resting as a means of restoring resources, but let's hope they don't go overboard.
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#27 Sep 15 2009 at 5:40 PM Rating: Good
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Well alternatively, we could have a longer cast time of spells, but with less MP cost. For example, you could get five Burst II's before having to rest, but each one would take you a longer time to perform.
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#28 Sep 16 2009 at 9:21 AM Rating: Good
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With the abilities to switch jobs on the fly it is still unclear what penalties there are for switching if there are any at all, it could very well be if you switch jobs from a melee to a mage your mp might simply start maxed out, like when you switch jobs in your mog house you regenerate hp and mp. That being said I would not mind seeing mp regeneration overtime when not playing a mp based class. This way in a party if the mage runs out of mp you could switch to melee and the current melee could switch to mage and the fighting could resume while the original mages mp restores now everyone has to know both sides of the field and a therefor have a better understanding of party dynamics. in a solo situation you could fight melee while your mage job regenerates. Of course there should always be a way to stop all actions and increase regeneration rate ie rest.
#29 Sep 30 2009 at 9:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Resting or no resting? I like the resting idea. Example: If not allowing resting results in a standard +1hp/mp per second then allowing resting would result in +2hp/mp per second. But then people would say "why not give us that 2 hp/mp per second without making us rest"? Well if we're going to do that then why not still have a rest available and increase resting regen to 4hp/mp per second? But then why not get rid of resting and give us 4 hp/mp per second anyways?...

Resting was originally a way to speed up recovery but was viewed as a waste of time. How does that work? When people take something for granted they forget that it's a perk and not something they're automatically entitled to.

Or we could do away with resting and that rewarded +2hp/mp per second regen that came with it, just have +1 hp/mp regen, and save this entire arguement.
#30 Oct 01 2009 at 6:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Resting was originally a way to speed up recovery but was viewed as a waste of time. How does that work? When people take something for granted they forget that it's a perk and not something they're automatically entitled to.

Resting in FFXI was extreme just because it took too long to rest MP/HP back. You wouldn't even see the first tick for like 6 seconds. This created a NEED for +hMP/+hHP and cookies (eliminating the ability to use food) if you wanted to speed it up. Potions were not easily accessible or even stackable unless you considered carrying drops. You could only use drops every 3 minutes iirc so this made them pretty worthless.

There should be a way to regen MP/HP other than potions and resting is probably the best solution for someone in the field. A second best is waiting until the end of the fight to switch jobs, heal yourself and switch back.
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#31 Oct 01 2009 at 8:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Make resting a minigame.

Use the same concept as GoW (Gears of War). Instead of just reloading you can reload faster and get a damage bonus. The first thing that comes to mind is something similar to the Legend of dragoon battle system, but for resting.
"Go HURRUH, VOLCANO" - you gain 25(base)+ 32 (volcano) mana.
It would give you something to do on downtime, it wouldn't be OPd, it would reward skillful players, and more importantly you wouldnt be staring at your character doing nothing for a few minutes.

If you didnt want to play the minigame, dont. You just regain base mana. Options and more interesting recovery. Its too good to be put in a game.
#32 Oct 01 2009 at 2:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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That's interesting, but, speaking from the Healer's perspective I kinda' liked the occasional breather resting was. EXP being made through Timed Chains made moments of respite far and few between.

I'd sooner see downtime that was less frequent than downtime that was more exciting.
More like catching your breath and less like breathing.




Edited, Oct 1st 2009 6:48pm by Zemzelette
#33 Oct 01 2009 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
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sixgauge wrote:
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Resting was originally a way to speed up recovery but was viewed as a waste of time. How does that work? When people take something for granted they forget that it's a perk and not something they're automatically entitled to.

Resting in FFXI was extreme just because it took too long to rest MP/HP back. You wouldn't even see the first tick for like 6 seconds. This created a NEED for +hMP/+hHP and cookies (eliminating the ability to use food) if you wanted to speed it up. Potions were not easily accessible or even stackable unless you considered carrying drops. You could only use drops every 3 minutes iirc so this made them pretty worthless.

There should be a way to regen MP/HP other than potions and resting is probably the best solution for someone in the field. A second best is waiting until the end of the fight to switch jobs, heal yourself and switch back.


The first tic for resting takes 20 seconds, and then it's every 10 seconds after that.
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#34 Oct 02 2009 at 7:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
I hope resting isn't the ridiculous kneeling position if they add it. Yoga is not actually that relaxing.


Yes. The animation should include your character taking out a sleeping bag and getting some shut-eye while the rest of the party fights emerald weapon or whatever.
#35 Oct 02 2009 at 7:58 AM Rating: Decent
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The first tic for resting takes 20 seconds, and then it's every 10 seconds after that.

Wow, that's even worse than I remember. If they add resting, they really need to make the effect kick in faster and tick faster. I did like the fact that you could rest in combat so that should be implemented as well.
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#36 Oct 02 2009 at 8:20 AM Rating: Good
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sixgauge wrote:
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The first tic for resting takes 20 seconds, and then it's every 10 seconds after that.

Wow, that's even worse than I remember. If they add resting, they really need to make the effect kick in faster and tick faster. I did like the fact that you could rest in combat so that should be implemented as well.


Could and should were two different things though. Which was quite obvious with old DRG who could go to the side and rest wyvern HP to have them never die while leveling 1-75, but everyone suicided the pets for the ability to contribute more damage in parties.

Of course that was HP resting as well, which have always been terrible.
#37 Oct 02 2009 at 9:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
I hope resting isn't the ridiculous kneeling position if they add it. Yoga is not actually that relaxing.


Yes. The animation should include your character taking out a sleeping bag and getting some shut-eye while the rest of the party fights emerald weapon or whatever.

Tents or GTFO.
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