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#1 Sep 15 2009 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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ok so for this game, let us do search, ls, friendlist, say, shout, etc while dead.

it sux so much to die and be stuck there for 1h waiting some people happens to come by our dead bodies and lost whatever because we have to home point.

*currently dead beside the fort after 1h+ of campain, alone on ls, and very, very *******
#2 Sep 15 2009 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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Quick whats your pos... ill go raise you!
#3 Sep 15 2009 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Or, instead of all that stuff you said, lessen the penalty for death so you can just release.
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#4 Sep 15 2009 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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It was already annoying that whenever you pass through an area as a mage you get spammed for raises, warps, teleports, etc. and it's not like you dislike helping someone out, but even as a mage you have your plans and obligations.

And having already lvled through those areas and having eating HPs or traveling home by foot yourself you know it's a learning experience and something you have deal with sometimes.

If I'm traveling to a camp on choco that's not around the corner, and someone asks me for a raise or warp I'd tell them "i'm sorry I cant". And then usually be met with hostile words. This is the kind of attitude that forces alot of people to go anon.
#5 Sep 15 2009 at 1:06 PM Rating: Good
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I just think the death penalty can be tweaked. I think it should still mean something to die but not so much that you either wait for a rez or spend an hour trying to get back to where you were and lose a ton of xp. I also don't really like finding my body in WoW though...I think maybe every zone should have an aetheryte crystal where you pop up once you die...maybe one at the beginning of dungeons as well...that's kind of a middle ground between FFXI and WoW I suppose. I only think games like EVE should have steep death penalties as there is a purpose to it...there is no purpose for death penalties in games like FFXI other than to waste time other than to provide a slight incentive to play your best.
#6 Sep 15 2009 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
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Veidt wrote:
It was already annoying that whenever you pass through an area as a mage you get spammed for raises, warps, teleports, etc. and it's not like you dislike helping someone out, but even as a mage you have your plans and obligations.


I agree. Having a WHM/BLM character I was always being spammed with these requests from friends of dead people. Sometimes I wasn't even in the same zone. Sometimes I was in a group.
Most of the time a simple no would suffice, but some people were so stubborn that they began to offer gil and items to me if I would leave my party, travel, and raise their dead buddy.

No means no.

I don't mind helping someone out if they are dead, I'm passing by, and I see them, but let's be realistic.

Anyway, I am hoping that SE lessens the death penalty a bit. I thought it was pretty bad in FFXI with loosing massive exp, de-leveling, death weakness...
I say, let us lose some exp and maybe a less severe death weakness.

But de-leveling...I really hated that, even though I can see it's purpose in the game (prevents people from just leveling up and then doing stupid things or acting carelessly and getting their entire group killed).

SE says they want to make a more casual game that anyone can enjoy, including people new to MMORPGs. I think if they want to be sucessful, they are going to need a less severe death penalty...especially for newcomers.

They want the game to be enjoyable even if you can only play 1 hour a day. Nothing like working your **** off for one hour just to die and then lose all of the exp (or FFXIV skill-point equivalent or w/e) that you earned.
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#7 Sep 15 2009 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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I really want them to lessen the penalty for dying for two reasons.

1) One of the things I like about MMOs is logging on and doing something that will permanently move my character up in status in that world, and when I log off, I know that my character has moved up forever and nothing will change that. The way you could lose experience and even level down in FFXI made my character feel a little too fluid, or weak.

2) It seemed as though the death penalty was so stiff that a great many people would avoid taking on risky endeavvors or challenging tasks just for fear of dying. The death penalty should be a slap on the wrist, and not make the game less fun because people are so afraid of dying.
#8 Sep 15 2009 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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There should be many options for recovering from death.
1. Get a raise
2. Revive near Home Point or a near by cemetery.
3. You revive naturally after about 5 minutes. Every time you die 5 more minutes are added to your death time, 5 minutes subtracted every 15 minutes you don't die. Min 5 minute death time, Max 30 minute death time.
4. You can revive immediately at full health by spending 500XP, only usable every 30 minutes.
Just some examples.

Edited, Sep 15th 2009 7:44pm by foxblade
#9 Sep 17 2009 at 2:13 AM Rating: Excellent
Death in FFXIV will be Steel Battalion-style. Your character/save file will be deleted if you die.Smiley: tongue
#10 Sep 17 2009 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
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LadyOfHolyDarkness, Eater of Souls wrote:
Death in FFXIV will be Steel Battalion-style. Your character/save file will be deleted if you die.Smiley: tongue


That's one extreme. I know you're joking, but let's hope we don't see the opposite extreme either. I've been playing too many MMO's lately where healing and raise skills are pointless because it's so trivial to just respawn and join back in the fight.
#11 Sep 17 2009 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I just think the death penalty can be tweaked. I think it should still mean something to die but not so much that you either wait for a rez or spend an hour trying to get back to where you were and lose a ton of xp. I also don't really like finding my body in WoW though...I think maybe every zone should have an aetheryte crystal where you pop up once you die...maybe one at the beginning of dungeons as well...that's kind of a middle ground between FFXI and WoW I suppose. I only think games like EVE should have steep death penalties as there is a purpose to it...there is no purpose for death penalties in games like FFXI other than to waste time other than to provide a slight incentive to play your best.
I think FFXI's death penalty is worse then EVE's. I don't think Eve's death penalty is too steep. Sure its full loot you loose your ship but ships and loot are pretty easy to come by. Unless your really dense and don't have a jump clone or an up to date clone you wont loose any of your skill training. Nothing to me is worse then FFXI's level downs.
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#12 Sep 17 2009 at 10:35 AM Rating: Decent
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mezlabor wrote:
Quote:
I just think the death penalty can be tweaked. I think it should still mean something to die but not so much that you either wait for a rez or spend an hour trying to get back to where you were and lose a ton of xp. I also don't really like finding my body in WoW though...I think maybe every zone should have an aetheryte crystal where you pop up once you die...maybe one at the beginning of dungeons as well...that's kind of a middle ground between FFXI and WoW I suppose. I only think games like EVE should have steep death penalties as there is a purpose to it...there is no purpose for death penalties in games like FFXI other than to waste time other than to provide a slight incentive to play your best.
I think FFXI's death penalty is worse then EVE's. I don't think Eve's death penalty is too steep. Sure its full loot you loose your ship but ships and loot are pretty easy to come by. Unless your really dense and don't have a jump clone or an up to date clone you wont loose any of your skill training. Nothing to me is worse then FFXI's level downs.


I suppose it all depends on how expensive your ship is and your play style but you might be right. Essentially all we are talking about when a death occurs is time. When you die in FFXI you lose time because you have to make up the xp you lost along with either waiting for a rez or running back to your camp from wherever you are. When you die in eve you lose your ship and whatever is in it and sometimes, if you get podded, the implants you have and so have to obtain the money to replace them. If you are a long time eve player, though, with large supplies of money, death would be nothing...especially if you aren't flying anything really expensive. For the novice EVE player, however, death is fairly huge as buying a new ship and fitting it after a death could deplete the savings you had for a new skill or a ship upgrade.

Anyway, my original point wasn't to say EVE had a greater death penalty but only in games like EVE should the penalty for death be fairly substantial. PvP games where the gameplay is centered around gaining at the expense of others. A PvE focused game like FFXI and FFXIV, which has no real purpose for death other than a punishment for sucking, shouldn't have enormous penalties.
#13 Sep 17 2009 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I suppose it all depends on how expensive your ship is and your play style but you might be right. Essentially all we are talking about when a death occurs is time. When you die in FFXI you lose time because you have to make up the xp you lost along with either waiting for a rez or running back to your camp from wherever you are. When you die in eve you lose your ship and whatever is in it and sometimes, if you get podded, the implants you have and so have to obtain the money to replace them. If you are a long time eve player, though, with large supplies of money, death would be nothing...especially if you aren't flying anything really expensive. For the novice EVE player, however, death is fairly huge as buying a new ship and fitting it after a death could deplete the savings you had for a new skill or a ship upgrade.

Anyway, my original point wasn't to say EVE had a greater death penalty but only in games like EVE should the penalty for death be fairly substantial. PvP games where the gameplay is centered around gaining at the expense of others. A PvE focused game like FFXI and FFXIV, which has no real purpose for death other than a punishment for sucking, shouldn't have enormous penalties.
Heheh I sometimes forget new players have trouble with isk. I've been playing on and off for 6 years. I have some expensive ships. Most of them are mining ships that dont see any type of real danger. My expensive combat ship I use for agent missions. In pvp I use t1 battleships and a jump clone. I'm not one of those guys that gets into a faction issue or a marauder and pvp in my +5s. but yea I agree that PVe games like ffxiv shouldn't have steep death penalties.

Edited, Sep 17th 2009 3:13pm by mezlabor
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#14 Sep 18 2009 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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I honestly hope death is like it is in WoW. The penalty for dying will be your equipment going down the *******. The time you lose from dying and the annoyance of it should be enough. You shouldn't have to wait 10 minutes before doing ANYTHING again (1 minute would be enough imo). You also shouldn't lose 5 hours of work from dying once. Oh and god forbid you die twice in a row with nothing but a raise 1 or no raise at all!

Lets stop including systems that penalize players for playing the game please. I've said it a few times now and I will continue to say it. If you want to add challange to your game do it in other ways that do not penalize people. Make puzzles, or battles that will be difficult (nothing AV style please). Things of that nature will be fun and hopefully offer rewards to justify such a feat. Things like dying a couple of times due to a mistake in a party forcing you to spend 5 hours+ redoing what you had just done is just silly.
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#15 Sep 30 2009 at 5:22 PM Rating: Good
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Foxblade has some good ideas imho.

A death punishment system shouldn't be so brutal to actually stop players from attempting certain things out of fear.

It shouldn't be so weak that players have no fear of death at all though or groups would suffer from too many sloppy players.

It's a difficult balance to manage. Some players like brutal games and others like games that hold their hand. Who do you try to please?

I liked ffxi's death system except for the degree that it punished. One death should be fairly painless. Maybe increase the penelty for repeated deaths within a certain time frame. After all, I can't even remember how many times I died by someone else's fault. Why should I be punished unless I continue allowing that person/situation to kill me? Making the first death's punishment easier to deal with would be like firing a warning shot. I still agree with XP being part of the punishment. I'd rather lose some XP than be stuck sitting around for any amount of time. Better to be doing something, even if it's regaining what you've just lost, than nothing. But the amount of xp lost should be something you can recover in a decent amount of time unless you've just died for the 10th time within 30 minutes.

death 1 = 1% xp tnl loss
death 2 = 10% xp tnl loss
death 3 = 25% xp tnl loss
death 4 = 100% xp tnl loss or something similar
#16 Sep 30 2009 at 6:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I bet you just lose some armor durability from dying.

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#17 Sep 30 2009 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
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I'm sort of eh on the xp penalty. I've only deleveled from 75 once -- it's really not so much to keep me from having a buffer. At lower levels, it's practically negligible. Even at higher levels, its fairly low. Weakness is irritating though, so if they cut that down, that'd be great.


WoW armor thing isn't horrible either. It's pretty hard to die multiple times on anything in WoW anyway, because of the corpse-walking thing.
No walking back to your corpse. That part is really irritating, especially if you're in a new area and don't know your way around.
Also, 10 min weakness if you HP in WoW -.-;

Anyway, HP >.>: Really, at 75, you lose 1500 xp or so? You could get that back your next campaign. Annoying, sure, but not prohibitive where you have to sit there for 1hr+ waiting for a raise.

I have absolutely no problem saying no to a raise request unless it's someone nearby, or a friend. Simply put, the xp penalty isn't so horrible that you can't make it up easily.
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#18 Oct 01 2009 at 1:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I think FFXI's death penalty is worse then EVE's. I don't think Eve's death penalty is too steep. Sure its full loot you loose your ship but ships and loot are pretty easy to come by. Unless your really dense and don't have a jump clone or an up to date clone you wont loose any of your skill training. Nothing to me is worse then FFXI's level downs.


If you lose an insured tech 1 ship with tech 1 equipment, this is generally true. If, on the other hand, you're losing tech 2 (or 3) ships with tech 2 equipment, Eve is far far meaner than FFXI is. :)
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#19 Oct 01 2009 at 2:01 AM Rating: Good
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I used to travel /anon almost 100% of the time. I learned my lesson from Beastmaster, where I literally spent more time chasing people around raising them than I actually did leveling. And the only reason I didn't /anon as Beastmaster was out of courtesy for other BST's who /sea'd areas before going to set up camp.
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#20 Oct 01 2009 at 4:49 AM Rating: Good
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shaani wrote:
You shouldn't have to wait 10 minutes before doing ANYTHING again (1 minute would be enough imo). You also shouldn't lose 5 hours of work from dying once.
(A) Its five minutes. Annoying, yes, but at least say it correctly.
(B) Exactly how do you lose five hours of work from dying once? You don't lose any items when you die, so dying doesn't negatively effect crafting or farming or anything financial related. Also, even if you home point, the most you could have lost was 2,400 exp, and frankly that is like ten minutes in an exp party. Even solo that wouldn't be anywhere NEAR five hours.

I never understand why people feel the need to overexaggerate their examples to "prove their points." It just makes them look like they don't know what the **** they're talking about.
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#21 Oct 01 2009 at 8:15 AM Rating: Decent
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At worst I'd consider it an hour of work lost if you had to home point. If you have reraise or get raised it becomes even less.
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#22 Oct 01 2009 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Also, even if you home point, the most you could have lost was 2,400 exp, and frankly that is like ten minutes in an exp party.
Unless you were a Dragoon, or a Dark Knight, or <insert other ginger class> and it actually took you that long to find one.
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#23 Oct 01 2009 at 4:31 PM Rating: Good
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I already don't want to die. I don't need to be punished at all. Just knowing my death count is +1 and having wasted the time doing whatever I was trying to do is punishment enough.

I couldn't care less about people that want stricter death penalties. There are plenty of games for you, and if all else fails, you can punish yourself. Go slam your nuts in a door after you die. It will make games with xp loss seem like they're on easy mode.
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#24 Oct 01 2009 at 5:26 PM Rating: Good
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Having a decent hit to the current state of your armor and weapons would be satisfactory for me, as well as a short state of weakness if raised.

I honestly didn't mind the exp loss in XI too much, but a milder penalty like the armor one above would probably be much more universally accepted.


Edited, Oct 1st 2009 6:45pm by Kirbster
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#25 Oct 02 2009 at 7:00 AM Rating: Good
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I don't really care what the penalty is, just make Phoenix Down something everyone carries around regularly, so if you're dead and someone walks by there's a good chance he/she can raise you. Oh hey here have a Fenix, hey thanks, no problem.

And we all know how angry people got over Raise I vs II vs III. If a spellcaster is going to have a Raise ability, make it identical to a Phoenix Down. The only convenience should be that the spellcaster doesn't have to carry around Phoenix Down anymore. That way we don't have "Why did you use a Phoenix Down on me?! I had a WHM(equivalent) on the way and wouldn't have lost so much experience/mastery/durability/whatever!"

Note: I am a career WHM.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2009 11:00am by TraumaFox
#26 Oct 02 2009 at 7:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Nalamwen wrote:

death 1 = 1% xp tnl loss
death 2 = 10% xp tnl loss
death 3 = 25% xp tnl loss
death 4 = 100% xp tnl loss or something similar


A whole level loss from death 4 onwards? I can't imagine anyone wanting to do endgame stuff with that amount...

Edited, Oct 2nd 2009 11:36am by Dizmo
#27 Oct 02 2009 at 7:42 AM Rating: Decent
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I remember seeing something in an interview about death having a lower exp loss than FFXI, and they might forego exp loss altogether. Also, with aetherytes teleporting people to their guildleve locations, I get the feeling it won't be as big deal to release.
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