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Questions and speculation on a skill-up system.Follow

#1 Sep 16 2009 at 2:12 PM Rating: Excellent
209 posts
So far we know that skills can be learned by using weapons, but there are still a lot of unanswered questions about skills.

Can we improve preexisting skills?
Will skills have ranks and levels?
If so, what determines when a skill can increase in level? It was mentioned before that some guildleves will be skill-up quests, but will there be another way?
Will skills raise ranks or levels by 'experience points'? What will determine how we earn points?
Will there be something else we need to raise a skill? AP?

Anyway, since we know that there is no auto-attack function and that our weapon choice and subsequent skills play a major role in character growth, I think it's safe to say that the skills we learn are going to play a huge role in how we all play the game.

So, aside from what we already know, how do you think skills will be handled in FFXIV? How would you want them to be?

To answer my own question, I am imagining that skills are going to have ranks and we'll have to level up those ranks for them to get stronger. Furthermore, I think (and it may have been confirmed) that learning new skills will also give us stat/attribute bonuses. However, SE has said they want to do away with experience points, so I don't think we're going to get exp to rank up our skills.

The system that this most reminds me of is Mabinogi's (an F2P Korean MMORPG that I doubt many on here have played).
In Mabinogi skills are learned by completing a quest, getting training, reading a book, or equipping an item. Different skills are also raised different ways.
Some are raised by using the skill, some are raised by reading different books, some are raised by quests. Many are a combination of these things.

Anyway, I would like to reference Mabinogi's most popular rank-up skill system, which involves meeting various criteria in order to rank up that skill.

As an example, I'll use the Windmill skill, which allows the player to spin in a circle and hit all enemies within their radius at the expensive of 10% of their total HP (Even if your HP is negative, it will still decrease).

You learn the skill by doing a quest, but afterwards you need to meet several criteria to rank up the skill from Novice to rank F.

Method 	                                Exp. 	Count 	Total 
Attack any monster. 	                        1.00 	20 	20.00 
Kill any monster. 	                        3.00	10	30.00 
Counter using Windmill after being knocked back.10.00	2	20.00 
Attack multiple monsters simultaneously. 	30.00	1	30.00 
Kill multiple monsters simultaneously. 	        50.00	1	50.00 
Plus, these attributes are gained when ranking up: 
Strength +1, Will +3 	100% damage, 10% HP Reduction (when using the skill) 

(EXP is the amount of experience you earn by completing that criteria, but it can be ignored in this case.)
So in order to rank up this skill, you would have to attack a monster 20 times using the skill, kill a monster 10 times using the skill, etc.
By multiple monsters they mean 4 or more at a single time. Also by any monster, they mean any monster that it considered at least "strong", otherwise it won't count.

So it seems pretty easy to raise the skill to rank F, but what about from rank 1 to Master?

Method 	                                Exp. 	Count 	Total 
Kill a strong monster.                     	0.005 	4800 	24.00 
Kill an awful monster.                     	0.005	4800	24.00 
Kill a boss monster. 	                        0.025	2000	50.00 
Attack multiple strong monsters simultaneously. 0.25	48	12.00 
Kill multiple strong monsters simultaneously. 	0.75	40	30.00 
Plus, you gain these bonuses when ranking up:  
Strength +3, Will +4 	250% damage (when using this skill),  
10% HP Reduction, Increased Range 

That's a lot more.
Also, oftentimes some of the criteria are "??????" until you happen to meet one of them (which I found really annoying).

So to raise the skill you have to use it for what it was intended for, against difficult enemies (so you can't do this on rats all day), and in several different ways. When ranking up the skill it becomes stronger and you gain a boost in attributes.

Another thing I want to mention is that this system also applies to many crafting skills.
For example, to raise the enchanting skill you have to enchant a lot of things and also extract enchants from many items. But finding enchants and enchanted items is very difficult. So how do quickly rank up?
Many people choose to offer their services to others, for free, to quickly rank up.

I can see this being very useful in terms of item repair. Repairers would be more likely to offer their services for free because both parties gain something. The person with the worn down equipment gets it fixed, and the crafter meets more criteria to improve his skill.

In Mabinogi, crafters would advertise their services and people would gather around to get free crafting if they brought the materials.

I know this may not sit well with a lot of people, since many use crafting to earn money, but it doesn't mean that all crafting will always be free. Once you've raised your rank high enough you can make your own items with your own mats and sell them for a huge profit, but it's also a good idea to do it for others for free.

So what is your take on how the skill system will work, or how would you like to see it work?
What do you think of this criteria based system?

Edited for grammar and spelling.
Windmill skill information retrieved from

Edited, Sep 16th 2009 6:19pm by Finaa
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#2 Sep 16 2009 at 7:19 PM Rating: Decent
242 posts
Will skills have ranks and levels?

I am curious how SE will implement the "victory theme" when we hit a certain skill level. The more times I hear it in the game, the better! I hope the "ding" excitement from XI is left in, too.

If you listen through the entire evolution of the "victory theme" music, XI was noticeably left out. Smiley: frown

Edited, Sep 16th 2009 8:30pm by TheJollyjokers
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#3 Sep 16 2009 at 10:10 PM Rating: Good
41 posts
Excellent post. I played Mabinogi (and might again as I have $15 sitting on the account), and I loved the skill system in concept. It's a lot like what the classes/jobs/whatever of FFXIV look like they're going to work. I think my biggest problem with the game was that it was more of a action-clickfest (described as skill based rather than stat based). I played for four months before burning out (which I still feel bad about, for the friends I kind of left in the lurch). It seems to be aimed at folks who want regular PvP play (which would have been fine if anyone would just take 'No' for an answer), but had a reasonably interesting array of monsters, too.

The problem was, for all my leveling, I would still get killed by skeletons in the weakest dungeons due to lag. And I was paying $15 a month for the bells and whistles, including free regeneration-which is arbitrarily unavailable in the hardest mainline story areas. If it had been turnbased (in the way I understand XI to have been), I'd still be playing.

Anyway there are quite a few lessons square could learn from Mabinogi if they had the time. I kind of think they must have, as guildeves operate a lot like Mabinogi's instanced dungeons do (or maybe that's a staple of MMOs, I haven't played enough to know).
#4 Sep 17 2009 at 11:53 AM Rating: Default
121 posts

Final Fantasy V & VI win.
#5 Sep 17 2009 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
349 posts
Maybe they will put the victory fanfare back where it belongs. At the end of a battle.

Edited, Sep 17th 2009 4:18pm by mezlabor
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#6 Sep 17 2009 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
285 posts
If the skill system somewhat resembled mabinogi that would be nice. I liked that game for a while until it got all korean-y on me and started making me grind for crap (and pay for remorts :()

I'm hoping there are a LARGE number of skills. And enough GOOD skills so many people can make somewhat unique characters.
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