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Mastering for GilFollow

#1 Sep 20 2009 at 2:54 AM Rating: Decent
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It's pretty late (or early, depending on how you see it) where I am so my mind isn't working quite right but while I was reading one of the threads here I remembered being able to master materia in FFVII and sell it off for a good amount of gil, especially the all materia.

I was just wondering if anyone else thinks that might be an interesting addition to an MMO (FFXIV specifically)? I'm not talking about materia in specific but just the general idea of using an item enough to "master" it, thereby making it stronger, and then selling it (either to an NPC or to a PC...either way works for me). It could be a weapon or armor or whatever. Would be an interesting way of earning gil and one that is accessible to anyone that invests their time in battles.

Edited, Sep 20th 2009 3:55am by Yogtheterrible
#2 Sep 20 2009 at 4:06 AM Rating: Good
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It seems like a very unlikely implementation to me just because the natural place to include such a feature seems like weapon and armor, which we know will degrade.
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#3 Sep 20 2009 at 6:06 AM Rating: Decent
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It would be an RMT wet dream, too.
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#4 Sep 20 2009 at 8:56 AM Rating: Good
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Zackary wrote:
It would be an RMT wet dream, too.


I suppose you're right that there could be people who find a way to abuse it but we think too much about that these days. We can't let RMT rule the direction of our games.

I know it's unlikely, in fact I can say confidently that I know FFXIV wont have it. I'm just saying it might be a good idea.
#5 Sep 20 2009 at 10:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Yogtheterrible wrote:
Zackary wrote:
It would be an RMT wet dream, too.


I suppose you're right that there could be people who find a way to abuse it but we think too much about that these days. We can't let RMT rule the direction of our games.
That's no reason to accommodate to them.
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#6 Sep 20 2009 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
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If they do a "mastering" system for weapons/armor, most likely it will be character specific. Even if YOU master a weapon, if you sell it to someone else they will have to grind that weapon out from the start.
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#7 Sep 20 2009 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
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we'd better not put in a crafting system either. Dont want the rmt to abuse it. **** no AH either!
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#8 Sep 20 2009 at 5:34 PM Rating: Decent
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shaani wrote:
we'd better not put in a crafting system either. Dont want the rmt to abuse it. **** no AH either!


I was going to say something similar but in the end I didn't care enough to do it.
#9 Sep 20 2009 at 7:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Yogtheterrible wrote:

I was going to say something similar but in the end I didn't care enough to do it.


I pass the time waiting in Aion queues by posting here.
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#10Zackary, Posted: Sep 21 2009 at 3:37 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Hurray blatant ignorance!
#11 Sep 21 2009 at 5:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Hurray for letting the terrorists win!

How about instead of thinking of how the RMT will be able to getcha, you think of how to have all these things in place and have RMT not effect you to much. I've played a few MMO's where RMT exist but dont mess with the game at all. So yeah, saying this shouldnt be here because of RMT is god **** idiocy.
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#12 Sep 21 2009 at 6:32 AM Rating: Decent
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shaani wrote:
Hurray for letting the terrorists win!

How about instead of thinking of how the RMT will be able to getcha, you think of how to have all these things in place and have RMT not effect you to much. I've played a few MMO's where RMT exist but dont mess with the game at all. So yeah, saying this shouldnt be here because of RMT is god **** idiocy.
It's still not really that great of an idea to begin with. It isn't solely because of RMT either, but I wasn't going to bother to elaborate on that because I figured it would go without saying, considering how much similar systems have been discussed on this forum in the past. Apparently I thought wrong.

Let's say for instance they implement the NPC system, where you can sell mastered items to NPC for copious amounts of gold. That pretty much pours more currency into the economy. What happens at this point is you have an excess of currency floating around, so unless the money sinks (In XI they were chocobos, auction fees, airship fees, stuff like that.) are extravagant, it leaves you with massive inflation that pretty much makes a good portion of the game very unfriendly to not only the casual players, (Whom they have said they hope to appeal to.) but the new players who haven't yet reached the "top" and can't spend time making money via vendors. Basic economics just do not favor it.


The selling "mastered" items to other players doesn't even really make sense. They're already going to be enhancing items via the crafting system.
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#13 Sep 21 2009 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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I still think of mastering as growing skills to allow new ones. In a sense, using cure so much that you eventually learn curaga or using a WS so much that you learn a NEW WS (like WS Points). Mastering sounds like a good idea, however I would expect to only be able to sell the item used to master and not the mastery skill itself. I think mastering materia would be a great addition to FFXIV.

Don't get frustrated because people come up with ideas that may not be perfect. You are showing your inability to brainstorm well with others since all it may take is a bit of discussion to take a flawed idea and make it a perfect solution. What is now proved was once only imagined..

Quote:
I figured it would go without saying, considering how much similar systems have been discussed on this forum in the past. Apparently I thought wrong.

You did. I only say that because majority of the readers on the(this?) forum are not daily or even weekly visitors. If it's not stickied, don't expect it to be common knowledge.
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#14 Sep 21 2009 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm not really interested in brainstorming. I'm not making the game, and Enix isn't reading these forums close enough to see most of this stuff, so it's kind of fruitless to put much thought into it.
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Thank god I stopped playing MMOs.
#15 Sep 21 2009 at 1:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm not really interested in brainstorming.

I understand that. I think the OP was though.
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#16 Sep 21 2009 at 1:40 PM Rating: Good
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sixgauge wrote:
Quote:
I'm not really interested in brainstorming.

I understand that. I think the OP was though.
The way you made your post sound, it sounded like you expected everyone to agree and try and help him in his ideas.


Sometimes you just have to say "No."
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Thank god I stopped playing MMOs.
#17 Sep 21 2009 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Zackary, your post confused me. Mainly because I'm not sure where I may have implied that everyone should agree with the OP's idea. I based my assumption that the OP wanted input (brainstorming) off of this:

Quote:

I was just wondering if anyone else thinks that might be an interesting addition to an MMO (FFXIV specifically)? I'm not talking about materia in specific but just the general idea of using an item enough to "master" it, thereby making it stronger, and then selling it (either to an NPC or to a PC...either way works for me).


I guess I should have just stopped at the idea of selling the skill would be a bad idea, but the idea of mastery itself was a good one. I however, looked at the good and the bad parts of the idea instead of looking at it as one entire (and un-adjustable) thought.

/cheers

Edited, Sep 21st 2009 2:57pm by sixgauge
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#18 Sep 21 2009 at 1:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Zackary wrote:
That's no reason to accommodate to them.


I think this is the attitude we need to stay away from. Its a bad idea to develop content around "not" helping RMT besides helping the greater player base. Like how SE contently cut vendor prices of item just to hurt RMT while causes great grief to the entire player base.
#19 Sep 21 2009 at 6:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Zackary I wasnt really arguing the OP's point, just more the point of we should not keep something out of the game for the sole purpose of 'RMT could abuse it'. Thats just retarded. Square is a billion dollar company if they wanted they could find ways of implementing nearly anything where RMT would have little effect. WoW among other games have done it.
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#20 Sep 21 2009 at 7:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Ultimately any action done against RMT effects the whole community. By reducing the ability of one RMT you reduce the ability of every other player.

Also by not puting in content because of RMT is also "accommodating" to them. You are personally designing content (or the lack of) with the RMT exactly in mind.



Edited, Sep 21st 2009 11:08pm by Mitsuuko

Edited, Sep 21st 2009 11:10pm by Mitsuuko
#21 Sep 22 2009 at 9:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Mitsuuko wrote:
Ultimately any action done against RMT effects the whole community. By reducing the ability of one RMT you reduce the ability of every other player.

Also by not puting in content because of RMT is also "accommodating" to them. You are personally designing content (or the lack of) with the RMT exactly in mind.



Edited, Sep 21st 2009 11:08pm by Mitsuuko

Edited, Sep 21st 2009 11:10pm by Mitsuuko
I'd just rather have it be a little tougher to make money than to see random people get banned for absolutely no reason again.
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Yes, I lost faith in the powers that be.
But in doing so I came across the will to disagree.
And I gave up. Yes, I gave up, and then I gave in.
But I take responsibility for every single sin. ♪ ♫


Thank god I stopped playing MMOs.
#22 Sep 22 2009 at 10:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Zackary wrote:
[/quote]I'd just rather have it be a little tougher to make money than to see random people get banned for absolutely no reason again.


I would say by adjusting ways to gain gil towards RMT it also encourages bans. It same thing that happened in FF11. Everything increased at once, they were cutting all the vendor prices at the same time as the massive bannings. If they do one they will do both. But by focusing on the wellfare of the player base I think it also make SE rethink unnecessary bannings.
#23 Sep 22 2009 at 12:05 PM Rating: Decent
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So, I just thought of this idea as a possible means to combat RMT methods to some extent. Many games have a method of binding equipment to the player so that it becomes untradeable. This is all good IMO with 1 exception: What about the gear you simply wish to test and figure out which would be best to use?

Software companies solve this problem with trial versions of their software. Either feature or time limited versions of the software so you can try it, then purchase if you so desire.

I propose a "trial" type system for equipment. You obtain a piece of equipment and you're given so many days, 15?, to try the item at its full potential. After the allotted time, the item's performance is harshly limited. At such time, you're given the option to sell the item *where the next person to receive the item will be given said 15 day "trial"* or bind the item to yourself *where it becomes non-transferable*.

Obviously, steps would have to be taken to avoid items just being traded to re-activate the "trial" mode.
#24 Sep 22 2009 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Banggugyangu wrote:
So, I just thought of this idea as a possible means to combat RMT methods to some extent. Many games have a method of binding equipment to the player so that it becomes untradeable. This is all good IMO with 1 exception: What about the gear you simply wish to test and figure out which would be best to use?

Software companies solve this problem with trial versions of their software. Either feature or time limited versions of the software so you can try it, then purchase if you so desire.

I propose a "trial" type system for equipment. You obtain a piece of equipment and you're given so many days, 15?, to try the item at its full potential. After the allotted time, the item's performance is harshly limited. At such time, you're given the option to sell the item *where the next person to receive the item will be given said 15 day "trial"* or bind the item to yourself *where it becomes non-transferable*.

Obviously, steps would have to be taken to avoid items just being traded to re-activate the "trial" mode.


1. This thread been talking about BoP for awhile you might be interested in http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=1253566595180911651&num=19&page=1

2. I detest all form of trial gear. I hate the system in all games I seen it in. I dont think it work and just cause headach for both consumers and producers.
#25 Sep 22 2009 at 12:43 PM Rating: Default
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When I first read the thread title I mistook "Mastering" for another word and thought to myself, "man I'm gonna be rich!".
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#26 Sep 22 2009 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Mitsuuko wrote:
2. I detest all form of trial gear. I hate the system in all games I seen it in. I dont think it work and just cause headach for both consumers and producers.


I'm not suggesting they implement a system that you've seen before. I'm not proposing a flawless method of fixing the RMT problem. I'm just making a suggestion that I see little drawback with. A side-effect that we would see from it is this: Less stupid purchases by people. They'll quickly realize that before they go shopping, it's best for them to research their options and know what they're getting.

To each his own, though.
#27 Sep 22 2009 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Banggugyangu wrote:
Mitsuuko wrote:
2. I detest all form of trial gear. I hate the system in all games I seen it in. I dont think it work and just cause headach for both consumers and producers.


I'm not suggesting they implement a system that you've seen before. I'm not proposing a flawless method of fixing the RMT problem. I'm just making a suggestion that I see little drawback with. A side-effect that we would see from it is this: Less stupid purchases by people. They'll quickly realize that before they go shopping, it's best for them to research their options and know what they're getting.

To each his own, though.


And I was simply stating I see alot of flaw with that approach. More then anything else it be pretty difficult to institute "trials" on user created gear. I would say only thing you could implement it on is vendor merchandise which almost no MMO ever rely on.

I think what be more productive as stated in another thread is to make affects of various gear more straight forward so you know how it will effect you before you even buy it.
#28 Sep 24 2009 at 10:23 AM Rating: Decent
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As I said, I was making a general suggestion of an idea I had without any real form backing it up. I'm sure if it were half-done, it would be horrible with thousands of problems. I'm also sure, if someone were to spend the time perfecting it, it could work wonderfully. The same is true with many other systems that people have implemented poorly *hi2uFoVAugments*.
#29 Sep 24 2009 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
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All that they really need to do in order to keep RMT to a minimum is not be so unbalanced about things from the start.

We've had these discussions before, and it was found that a level ten set of starter gear costs 10k+, and you start the game with 50 gil and only beastmen drop money (often barely 10-15 a piece).

Add to that selling things to vendor (which is a commonly accepted way of making gil in just about every other RPG on the planet) barely netted you enough for that one set of gear even after leveling several jobs to a level which it can be used, and you have players who wonder how they will ever get to the highest levels without buying gil from the people who have the leisure to do nothing but farm it.

Now, if they start the game off with concepts like FoV and price items you buy at NPC appropriately RMT probably won't have as large a foothold as they do in XI. XI is just too player-unfriendly and was "too little too late", but they've made some great additions to the game that I think we'd all like to see in some form over in XIV.

To be honest though, I'd like to see them stop tying epic weapons and armor directly to Gil sinks. Specifically things like relics in their current form need to go in order to discourage RMT activity. Things like Relics should be directly tied to effort spent in an event rather than effort spent lifting a credit card. Dynamis and events like it were doomed to become corrupted from the start.

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