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Sight, Scent, SoundFollow

#1 Sep 25 2009 at 10:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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WoW and many other MMO's out there have 'dumbed down' the distinction between Aggressive and Non-Aggressive mobs. Either it attacks you when you get close enough, or it doesn't.

FFXI made quite a big deal out of how mobs sensed you, be it sight, smell, or sound, and I'm hoping FFXIV continues in this.

Being able to lose a scent tracking mob by crossing a stream is awesome. Being able to tip toe behind a giant who's back is turned is a thrill. I hope they keep this and don't make mobs plain old "Aggro" or "NonAggro".

[edit]I spend too much time on the web... spelling 'sight' as 'site'. yeesh.[/edit]

Edited, Sep 25th 2009 1:49pm by striveldt
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#2 Sep 25 2009 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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Ooh I agree and second this. This is an awesome feature and I hope to see it in FFXIV too. It adds lots more depth and feeling to the game, even just a simple detail like this.

#3 Sep 25 2009 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sound aggro is kinda broken in FFXI. Sight was fine, but sound...

-You can't tiptoe past them if they're in range. Heck, you can't even stand behind it quietly when sneak wears off without turning back at you.

-Can't put sneak on top of sneak. What's up with that.

It kinda made bastok/Quadav missions a bit more demanding than the others, where Orc and Yags are sight.

...


...



......

Then again, I'm ******** about FFXI :P

Anyways, I agree with OP.
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#4 Sep 25 2009 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
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The aggro system from FFXI is one of the gems of that game, and really helped to define the feeling of FFXI. It is an area I sorely missed when I tried other MMO's. I don't think this is an area that will be downgraded with FFXIV, SE doesn't usually go backwards with it's games, often different, but rarely backwards.
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#5 Sep 25 2009 at 1:32 PM Rating: Decent
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More Scent, go!
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#6 Sep 25 2009 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Sound aggro is kinda broken in FFXI. Sight was fine, but sound...

-You can't tiptoe past them if they're in range. Heck, you can't even stand behind it quietly when sneak wears off without turning back at you.

-Can't put sneak on top of sneak. What's up with that.

It kinda made bastok/Quadav missions a bit more demanding than the others, where Orc and Yags are sight.

...


...



......

Then again, I'm ******** about FFXI :P

Anyways, I agree with OP.


If you didn't 'stink' so much it wouldn't be an issue!

har har har - I made a joke.
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#7 Sep 25 2009 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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I loved the system as well ... but it also helped to kill the sense of exploration you had at early levels and even later levels.

Not being able to solo mobs really hurt the game and the aggro system, not to mention the mobs chasing your forever. Let's face it, in the early days, once you got aggro... either you died or you zoned. Wasn't much in between.

I like the invis/sneak setup... but really hope they limit the number of aggressive mobs PERIOD if they stick to it.
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#8 Sep 25 2009 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
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I gotta agree with the OP, I loved the various ways that mobs could agro you in XI, so I hope it remains in XIV. I sorely missed it when playing other MMOs.
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#9 Sep 25 2009 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
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like the way it works too, but there are so many differents mobs...
adding a way to remember it would be nice (idk, maybe something like, after xx kill of that monster the /check give infos on the aggro)

*goldfish memory*
#10 Sep 25 2009 at 3:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Didnt care. One thing about FFXI was there was only like 40 types of enemies so you could just memorize what aggro'd. If FFXIV is a bit more diverse we're going to need a way of knowing what will try to eat your feet.
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#11 Sep 25 2009 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
Lets just hope there's still a Deodorize spell.
#12 Sep 25 2009 at 4:09 PM Rating: Default
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I really like how the aggro system in FFXI worked. I wish it was in most MMOs except for the scent part, that was stupid.
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#13 Sep 26 2009 at 6:04 AM Rating: Good
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Agreed, and I hope they expand on the system. Weather conditions, terrain, time of day, etc. should all have varying amounts of impact on the forms of detection. Personally, I'm rooting for scent-aggro mobs (dogs, big cats and such, if nothing else) and a scent radius that's affected by wind and local weather. Oh, yeah; and not making noise if you're standing still. That really annoyed me.

My only objection to FFXI's aggro/detection system was that WHMs and RDMs were the default sneaky jobs. I think that role should fall to NIN, THF, RNG, etc. Not that mages can't have sneaky spells, just that traditional sneaky classes should be the dominant choice for sneaking somewhere.
#14 Sep 26 2009 at 8:24 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm not sure if I like the idea of carrying on this system. The whole stealth system was a terrible pain in FFXI. Most missions were bypassed almost completely with entire groups sneaking past everything. And since sneaking items were so expensive people mostly relied on the jobs that can cast it to simply sneak them around. I honestly think they should dumb down the system so that it negates the need for it's use, except to certain jobs.

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Being able to tip toe behind a giant who's back is turned is a thrill.


And yes...this is fun, but it would be nice if mobs didn't just randomly turn around for no apparent reason. I wish they had a more realistic movement spectrum. How often do you find yourself just standing around and then in a fraction of a second you decide you want to turn 180 degrees and start walking that way?
#15 Sep 26 2009 at 8:49 AM Rating: Decent
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And yes...this is fun, but it would be nice if mobs didn't just randomly turn around for no apparent reason. I wish they had a more realistic movement spectrum. How often do you find yourself just standing around and then in a fraction of a second you decide you want to turn 180 degrees and start walking that way?


Quite often. It also wasn't random. I can say with 100% certainty that at least 95% of mobs moved, stood still for a set amount of time and then moved, and then stood still for that same amount of time and then moved, and then stood still for that same amount of time and then moved, etc.
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#16 Sep 26 2009 at 9:41 AM Rating: Decent
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t also helped to kill the sense of exploration you had at early levels and even later levels.


This is what I felt when I first played WotG.

"Oh, cool. New areas, let's check this out."

*sees 10 true-sight imps scattered around a narrow path*

"***** this."

*uses warp scroll*
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#17 Sep 26 2009 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
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And yes...this is fun, but it would be nice if mobs didn't just randomly turn around for no apparent reason. I wish they had a more realistic movement spectrum. How often do you find yourself just standing around and then in a fraction of a second you decide you want to turn 180 degrees and start walking that way?


Quite often. It also wasn't random. I can say with 100% certainty that at least 95% of mobs moved, stood still for a set amount of time and then moved, and then stood still for that same amount of time and then moved, and then stood still for that same amount of time and then moved, etc.


I disagree for at least Beastmen. It seems like the amount the move is equal to the amount they stay still per cycle. As in they stand still for 2 seconds, they then move for 2 seconds. They then stay still for 8 seconds, they move for 8 seconds, etc.
#18 Sep 26 2009 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
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I'd have to argue there is little sense of exploration when you're just running around carefree, nothing bothering you.
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#19 Sep 26 2009 at 10:15 AM Rating: Good
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I'd have to argue there is little sense of exploration when you're just running around carefree, nothing bothering you.
I get a sense of exploration from running around new towns where there are no enemies at all, I don't think fear of death is required to make visiting new places enjoyable.
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#20 Sep 26 2009 at 2:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think they should go even further, and have mobs that aggro based on a variety of other things. i.e., touch, for one (just makes no sense that you can touch an aggressive mob, as long as you're behind it)

What about territorial mobs-- that attack if you intrude on their territory? Maybe mobs that attack depending on if you have food, mobs with different aggro personalities, etc. There are lots of cool ways they could elaborate on the aggro system.
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#21 Sep 26 2009 at 3:04 PM Rating: Default
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UFO's that attack when you run below them, and sharks that attack you when you run above them o_0

Or dolphins that follow you but don't actually attack.. Or spinning jars that only attack when their other eye sees you..

God I loved al'taieu.
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#22 Sep 26 2009 at 6:18 PM Rating: Good
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FFXI had a good aggro system, but it had a terrible way of controlling it. I don't need sneak to wear off every 10 minutes (or whatever it was), stop resneak a party, and then go on again. Poor mechanics basically made a good system very tedious and that needs to be addressed. It was even worse when you needed to invis also..

oh.. I can't remember the last night deodorize was useful... maybe it's me.

#23 Sep 26 2009 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
I think they should go even further, and have mobs that aggro based on a variety of other things. i.e., touch, for one (just makes no sense that you can touch an aggressive mob, as long as you're behind it)

What about territorial mobs-- that attack if you intrude on their territory? Maybe mobs that attack depending on if you have food, mobs with different aggro personalities, etc. There are lots of cool ways they could elaborate on the aggro system.


Yes, I too think it'll be interesting. For a more strange areas, they could have alien type mobs that are heat seekers, you will have to have some kind of thermal shield around you. Some mobs that are motion sensitive which will force you to walk instead of run. Or some that detects electronics lol I will need comm jammers!
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#24 Sep 26 2009 at 11:41 PM Rating: Decent
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WoW and many other MMO's out there have 'dumbed down' the distinction between Aggressive and Non-Aggressive mobs. Either it attacks you when you get close enough, or it doesn't.

FFXI made quite a big deal out of how mobs sensed you, be it sight, smell, or sound, and I'm hoping FFXIV continues in this.

Being able to lose a scent tracking mob by crossing a stream is awesome. Being able to tip toe behind a giant who's back is turned is a thrill. I hope they keep this and don't make mobs plain old "Aggro" or "NonAggro".


While I get what you're trying to say and fully agree, there is some missinformation here about facts. It's FFXI that makes mobs stop attacking you when you reach a certain level. In WoW only the aggressive range changes, but they will always attack if you step on their toes.
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#25 Sep 27 2009 at 12:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Being able to lose a scent tracking mob by crossing a stream is awesome.


Yes it is awesome, but rarely did I find it useful.

It took me over a year of playing, and attending a FFXI fan event to even know this was possible.

Great idea, I just never found a use for it... smell detecting mobs always seemed to also have sight or sound detection as well, by the time I crossed the stream they were already on me.

I hope that SE keeps the sight/sound/smell detection system, but refines it.

It never made sense to me that an enemy that only possessed the sense of hearing could track me down and hit me when I was standing perfectly still, sneak or no sneak. It never made sense to me that a sight aggro enemy could find me in the darkest areas of the world. It's not like I was carrying a freaking torch.

Use of streams, shadows, and stillness would really make the whole system come together.

Edited, Sep 27th 2009 4:10am by Shazaamemt
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#26 Sep 27 2009 at 12:50 AM Rating: Good
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I enjoyed FFXI aggro system, except for the 2 second duration sneak and invis spells -_- Having mobs aggro to different things kept it interesting all my 75 levels of BST, even more so when ya got to watch a new person cast around that IT elemental haha.

I would have paid good money for SE to add a mob that aggroed to /emotes though, I can't tell you how many fun screens I would have if they did.

Edited, Sep 27th 2009 3:52am by Dorgon
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#27 Sep 27 2009 at 6:37 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
I think they should go even further, and have mobs that aggro based on a variety of other things. i.e., touch, for one (just makes no sense that you can touch an aggressive mob, as long as you're behind it)

What about territorial mobs-- that attack if you intrude on their territory? Maybe mobs that attack depending on if you have food, mobs with different aggro personalities, etc. There are lots of cool ways they could elaborate on the aggro system.


Those would all be excellent. Tremor-detection for mobs like worms and whatnot, too. Also, I'd like to see mobs that threaten before they attack, especially if used in conjunction with a territorial mob. Get near it's territory, it threatens you (even if it's just an emote-like animation). Enter it's territory, and it'll actually attack, but only until you leave.

Litie wrote:
FFXI had a good aggro system, but it had a terrible way of controlling it. I don't need sneak to wear off every 10 minutes (or whatever it was), stop resneak a party, and then go on again. Poor mechanics basically made a good system very tedious and that needs to be addressed. It was even worse when you needed to invis also..

oh.. I can't remember the last night deodorize was useful... maybe it's me.


Yeah, the spell mechanics are horrible. A fixed duration would solve most of the problems.

As far as Deodorize goes, it's one of those spells that's saved my **** a small handful of times, and might have saved it a small handful more if I'd actually remembered it existed. If there were scent-aggro mobs, though, it'd be a lot more important.
#28 Sep 27 2009 at 2:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Well FFXI sneaking passed monsters was a much bigger deal, other MMOs you just steam roll threw them and there is little no point in sneaking around; I got a feeling FFXIV is going to aim to be more like other MMOs.
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#29 Sep 30 2009 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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While I loved FFXI's unique aggro system and wouldn't mind seeing it in FFXIV in a refined form, I'd also like some different types of realism/immersion.

For example, once you aggro something in FFXI, no matter what it is or what it was doing before you got there, its sole mission in life is now to kill you. It will chase you to the ends of the zone and do everything in its power to make sure you are dead before it goes back to doing whatever it was doing.

The above makes sense for, say, beastmen. But why on earth does a sheep want to murder me for walking in front of it? Animals are protective of their territory and children, and typically their motivation for attacking is defensive, to just make you go away. Of course if the animal is big enough, being dead usually follows, but that's because we're squishy, not because the animal has some sort of bloodlust.

I think giving mobs different motivations for being aggressive would be a fantastic and immersive addition, even if it means having mobs that just swipe at you once or twice until you go away. Maybe mobs can slap you and then run away or hide, or try to get backup (but in a more logical sense than ranged linking). Then we could maybe have a class which focuses on that, like a different sort of Beastmaster, whose purpose is not just to charm animals into becoming pets, but understanding the very nature of mobs in the field, maybe with abilities to make them temporarily non-aggressive.

Edited, Sep 30th 2009 5:54pm by TraumaFox
#30 Sep 30 2009 at 5:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Yes it is awesome, but rarely did I find it useful.


As a thief with access to flee and hide, it became very, very useful for me. There's nothing like getting owned by a mnk orc NM in campaign.. and then fleeing across a river and using hide.
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