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For those that claim they won't buy FFXIVFollow

#52 Sep 30 2009 at 4:02 AM Rating: Decent
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What I find sad is that there are still some people that feel they should have access to more content in this game than other people. Not because they have better skills or a better team, but because they have nothing else to do in their lives than sit for hours staring at darters, raptors, and elementals.


The playerbase has already shown that unless they make a ridiculous mob like PW or AV, a strategy will be out within days. You're right though. They should make all windows 2 hours, with a 50% drop rate. Oh, and only during prime time. Or, with what XIV looks like, slap fafnir on a guildlev, let everyone have an instanced crack at him. We'll have everyone running around in dalmaticas and ridills.

The problem is this: The people who dont have 'time' to get what they want complain about it. Because those who DO have time for it DON'T complain, SE only sees complaints. So now they're gonna cater to those who probably shouldnt have been playing XI in the first place. I have very low hopes for XIV. It's not SE's fault though, I believe they're actually listening. SE's a business afterall, and its bad business to cater to the minority (hard core gamer). Everyones trying to get a piece of WoW's pie, it'd be a poor decision to not try to.
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#53 Sep 30 2009 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
Hyanmen wrote:
the game that kicks you in the nuts repeatedly until you fall down dead?

This part made me laugh, only because I play SmackDown! vs. Raw 2009, and have a created finisher that does exactly that. Eight consecutive kicks to the groin followed by a DDT. I call it "Eight is Enough."

Anyway, back on topic: I do plan on playing FFXIV, but I'll go back to FFXI if the new game is not to my liking. Despite all the complaints of SE's handling of FFXI (alot of which I agree with), the one thing that keeps me coming back is all the friends I've made over the last 5+ years. They make the glaring imperfections a little more bearable.
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#54 Sep 30 2009 at 7:42 AM Rating: Decent
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It's great that SE wants to devote more time and resources into developing FFXIV, the issue, however, is that we (the player base) are still paying the same fee for FFXI. We're still paying the same amount each month for our subscription for FFXI, therefore it's not unreasonable to expect that we should continue to get the same amount of updates and content as we had gotten in the previous years. Bottom line, if SE is going to skimp on their support for FFXI, then they should reduce the monthly subscription fee.


You forgot one thing about that assumption. The playerbase has decreased over the years. If there were 500k paying customers 3 years ago, now there might be <400k. That means less money for the company, which means less updates for the game as well. It's not unreasonable to expect that SE would drop the rate of updates as the number of subscriptions gets lower.

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Also it wasn't that people got bored with the content and then all of a sudden all of these glaring issues in the game became apparent. It's that the player base finally started asking why the f**k they've been mentioning some of these issues (ground kings, ridiculous spawn times anyone?) and having them seemingly ignored. Only to have an interviewer inquire about those issues and being told "well if the community feels strongly that it's a problem, we may have to look into it".


You basically repeated what I said. When there's nothing else to do, the little content and it's flaws still left in the game for the players to achieve becomes more and more important.

And since there really is too many things to fix (with the resources SE puts into the game) and some of those things are better left untouched anyway, the players never became satisfied with the fixes or additions to ease the problems of the game.

Edited, Sep 30th 2009 3:47pm by Hyanmen
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#55 Sep 30 2009 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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Renowaikk the Meaningless wrote:

21-24 hour spawn windows are hardly worth complaining about. Drop rates, I can understand. It's not hard to hold a ToD, and camp something when enough of your LS is on. 3 hours is less than most events anyways.


I don't agree at all. Those 21-24hr spawns are a pain. I can't believe I own a Joyeuse(camped it 15+ hours straight) or my Peacock Amulet. As for HNM's, it's not bad enough you must be there for a 3hr window, but some random bot claims the NM. I also don't agree with your point that a 21-24hr pop rate isn't worth complaining. The most successful LS's on my server have NA/JP/EU players to work round the clock to claim NM's. If you're a NA and the pop time is 4am in the morning, how the **** is that fair? Imagine if you're first in line for a Ridill only for it to drop at that 4AM pop. So no, 21-24 pops must go and be replaced with instanced. That fixes the bot problem too.

Quote:
The problem is this: The people who dont have 'time' to get what they want complain about it. Because those who DO have time for it DON'T complain, SE only sees complaints. So now they're gonna cater to those who probably shouldnt have been playing XI in the first place. I have very low hopes for XIV. It's not SE's fault though, I believe they're actually listening. SE's a business afterall, and its bad business to cater to the minority (hard core gamer). Everyones trying to get a piece of WoW's pie, it'd be a poor decision to not try to.


/punts annoying tarutaru

How do you have the nerve to claim who should be playing FFXI and who shouldn't? In my above response, you were saying it was ok for the 21-24pop times. That's not feasible for most people with a life. If your LS leader has your home phone number, well you obviously don't have a life. FFXI is full of holes. Those complaints are all valid. Jobs like RNG 04' and now SAM are terribly 'broken'. Jobs like SMN have been tweaked, but not fixed for years. BST has been forgotten lost in obsecurity. All most of us want is some freaking balance. What's wrong with that? Is it wrong to want to fight HNM's and not be in a HNM LS? I liked doing ZNM for that very reason. It wasn't that most of us don't want to fight the fun stuff, but it's just not feasible with our demands of RL.

Edited, Sep 30th 2009 3:43pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#56 Sep 30 2009 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
I agree with SEdge, good gear should be rare because the monsters or events you have to complete are difficult/require skill, not because your LS owns a bot or you're able to play bizarre hours b/c of a lack of outside commitments.
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#57 Sep 30 2009 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
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I’m one of the first people in the 24 hour pop window was lame line, but there are some people out there that really like waiting hours on end to claim and fight crazy monsters, by having SE get rid of it we are ruining their fun. What they should do is just don't link the kill with some crazy epic piece of equipment drop, give them a title, a useless token equipment (just so they can show they did it), and a million gil each to keep them coming back, I think that would be appropriate. Keeps the hardcore’s content in the game, gives them bragging rights, the big money reward makes sure there is always competition for the beast, and it provides monetary incentive.
#58 Sep 30 2009 at 1:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I've probably already been vocal enough about my belief that games should challenge your skill and not your patience or willingness to waste your free time, so just throwing my hat in on that one.

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First off, I never stated that I felt that "good gear" should be gotten with little or no work involved. There's quite a bit of a difference between being able to kill a mob and having to wake up at odd hours for the chance to claim it.


I actually had a novel idea for a game that I think would be pretty cool, and I'm copyrighting that **** right here. Basically, it's a game that you turn on before you go to sleep. You let the game run with the TV on, and it does nothing (your character is also sleeping, or in some other state of inactivity). You could perhaps set it so that it gives you some white noise, light music... something to help you sleep.

The game starts after you fall asleep. At random times it will wake you up and you'll have to perform the necessary task. I thought doing it like a survival horror game would be the best fit for this sort of game. You could do puzzles or something, but then the whole ************* with you" effect is sort of wasted. So basically, you're there sleeping, and an axe murderer busts into your ******* house. You have to wake up and get to safety (or kill him) while you yourself are actually as disoriented as you normally would be if you had to suddenly wake up.

And the game pretty much has to punish you heavily for dying. There'd be a variety of scenarios and locations. Even a multiplayer and/or co-op mode for slumber parties and ****.

It's a completely irresponsible game, but wouldn't it be pretty awesome, even if just as an occasional rental?
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#59 Sep 30 2009 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
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The playerbase has already shown that unless they make a ridiculous mob like PW or AV, a strategy will be out within days. You're right though. They should make all windows 2 hours, with a 50% drop rate. Oh, and only during prime time. Or, with what XIV looks like, slap fafnir on a guildlev, let everyone have an instanced crack at him. We'll have everyone running around in dalmaticas and ridills.

The problem is this: The people who dont have 'time' to get what they want complain about it. Because those who DO have time for it DON'T complain, SE only sees complaints. So now they're gonna cater to those who probably shouldnt have been playing XI in the first place. I have very low hopes for XIV. It's not SE's fault though, I believe they're actually listening. SE's a business afterall, and its bad business to cater to the minority (hard core gamer). Everyones trying to get a piece of WoW's pie, it'd be a poor decision to not try to.


If you're going to attempt to twist my words around you could at least try to understand the context of what is being said (try picking up a book IRL sometime, you might get a few .1 or .2 toward your reading comprehension skill).

Of course people will figure out a strategy for defeating a mob in a relatively short amount of time. There are thousands of people all working on developing the best strategy. Honestly you seem to me to be part of the group that ends up on here or BG crying about how their "accomplishment" was diminished because SE changed the methods for obtaining some piece of rare gear.

If SE makes the decision to make FFXIV more geared toward the casual player and that in turn prevents all of these elitist pricks, that think they have the right to look down on other players and decide who should have access to what content just because they happen to have a shell that has little or no problem with botting a 24 hour spawn NM, from playing FFXIV. Then I say let them do it.


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#60 Sep 30 2009 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
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I kind of agree with Reno the angry Taru in a way. I think that people that put more time into a game should be rewarded a little more than those who don't.
On one hand, people say they don't want to be punished because they may have lives and don't have the option of playing 12-16 hours a day. While that is the case for most of us, why should those who can put those sorts of hours not be rewarded in some way? By no means do I condone 24 hour pops at random times throughtout the week and low possibility of claiming that NM for a very low chance of it dropping what you want, but why not perhaps keep that 24 hour pop timer and extremely low drop rate but make it so you don't have to battle anyone in a claim race between bots. Claim races for NM's just lead to RMT monoplization, especially if the item is extremely good for a certain profession, making it valuable. Perhaps have forced spawns with requirements that somehow don't devalue the item by having a high drop rate. I don't even mind lowering the drop rate, as long as I get the chance to fight an HNM. Nothing is more frustrating to me than sitting around doing nothing for 3+ hours then not getting the claim, it's a complete waste of time and not fun in any way. I just want to know that when I do go to an event, I get to fight something, even if there's a 1-2% chance of drop. Because when you lose claim, there's a 0% chance. That leads to frustration, and people quitting the game. How many people put hundreds or thousands of hours in trying to claim Faf/Nidd only to never come away with anything except MAYBE once in a while getting to fight it.
So forced spawns with requirements with extremely low drop rates I think would work. So the more you are on, the more you'll get to do the fight, and higher chance you'll have of x-item dropping over time, but those that can only put enough time in still get to do the fight maybe once a week. At least they still get to enjoy the content once a week, and not be excluded from said event.
How many people never had any sort of opportunity to ever get a drop from Niddhogg because they knew they'd have to quit their jobs and stop seeing their family to get that item. I think all people want is a CHANCE to get the 'phat loots', because that's when it becomes exciting. Too many people had absolutely no chance in FFXI. I don't mind a lot of things being extremely rare and difficult to obtain, but certain things in XI were rediculous. I mean really, how many people have Mystic weapons? Some of the requirements are only obtainable by the best LS's, and on top of that 30,000 alexandrite?? That's rediculous. I played a lot and that would still have taken me 50 years.
#61 Sep 30 2009 at 4:15 PM Rating: Default
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I kind of agree with Reno the angry Taru in a way. I think that people that put more time into a game should be rewarded a little more than those who don't.
On one hand, people say they don't want to be punished because they may have lives and don't have the option of playing 12-16 hours a day. While that is the case for most of us, why should those who can put those sorts of hours not be rewarded in some way? By no means do I condone 24 hour pops at random times throughtout the week and low possibility of claiming that NM for a very low chance of it dropping what you want, but why not perhaps keep that 24 hour pop timer and extremely low drop rate but make it so you don't have to battle anyone in a claim race between bots. Claim races for NM's just lead to RMT monoplization, especially if the item is extremely good for a certain profession, making it valuable. Perhaps have forced spawns with requirements that somehow don't devalue the item by having a high drop rate. I don't even mind lowering the drop rate, as long as I get the chance to fight an HNM. Nothing is more frustrating to me than sitting around doing nothing for 3+ hours then not getting the claim, it's a complete waste of time and not fun in any way. I just want to know that when I do go to an event, I get to fight something, even if there's a 1-2% chance of drop. Because when you lose claim, there's a 0% chance. That leads to frustration, and people quitting the game. How many people put hundreds or thousands of hours in trying to claim Faf/Nidd only to never come away with anything except MAYBE once in a while getting to fight it.
So forced spawns with requirements with extremely low drop rates I think would work. So the more you are on, the more you'll get to do the fight, and higher chance you'll have of x-item dropping over time, but those that can only put enough time in still get to do the fight maybe once a week. At least they still get to enjoy the content once a week, and not be excluded from said event.
How many people never had any sort of opportunity to ever get a drop from Niddhogg because they knew they'd have to quit their jobs and stop seeing their family to get that item. I think all people want is a CHANCE to get the 'phat loots', because that's when it becomes exciting. Too many people had absolutely no chance in FFXI. I don't mind a lot of things being extremely rare and difficult to obtain, but certain things in XI were rediculous. I mean really, how many people have Mystic weapons? Some of the requirements are only obtainable by the best LS's, and on top of that 30,000 alexandrite?? That's rediculous. I played a lot and that would still have taken me 50 years.


You have a good point, but remember paragraphs are your friend =). I got dizzy reading into your huge paragraph.

Basically it seems like you are saying that all rare low percentage drops should be obtained through instanced content (that way there is no competition).
#62 Sep 30 2009 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Feeling like a broken record here, but pretty much the story of my presence on this board.

On the subject of strategy, people come out with a strategy for fights in XI because fights in XI are not very strategic. It doesn't speak highly to FFXI that strategies are almost totally replicable, i.e., the same strategy will always work. It'd be like playing against a chess player that barely reacted to your moves in choosing their own-- of course you're going to figure out very quickly how to beat them every time. On the other hand, there are super computers that are virtually unbeatable at a game of chess. FFXI doesn't have anything like this. Enemy AI and status are completely predictable, and you have the opportunity to prepare for every contingency.

But there are better ways to do it so that strategies cannot just be looked up online and replicated with ease.
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#63 Oct 01 2009 at 2:09 AM Rating: Decent
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I can't really say I like the idea of 24h spawns that are at random times(worst of all is the 3h waits etc though imo) for all the reasons people have stated, but I also do not want to see everyone and their mother running around in whatever is the latest and best item out there.

Problem here is that using instanced content everyone having the best items is very likely to happen. Kraken clubs and Ridills are all rare, and I love that. If there were instanced ways of getting those(unless it is like BCNM style maybe, seems to have worked)there would without a doubt be Riddils and KCs all over the place. Problem is how to balance this so that everyone gets to fight the cool stuff, but not everyone runs around with the uber equipment. Ultra rare drops might be one way of doing it, problem is that 1 year later, everyone is gonna have that item anyway, unless the item is rare to the point of being rediculus at which point people would start whining about that.

I used to be "pretty hardcore" around CoP release and now I would call myself extremely casual. I don't get to fight the cool stuff, which is a little sad, but there is no way I would trade this system for one where I would have the best items even though I play as little as I do, just so I would get to fight the big mobs. There is a reason the big mob fights are so "epic"(first few times anyway) and it is that they are rare etc.

I hope SE finds a good way of meeting somewhere in between WoW and FFXI, because they are both on the opposite end of the spectrum and imo too far to each side. The most important thing for me though is that, the rare items stay RARE, like in FFXI, but people get to try the cool mobs even if the players are a bit more casual. I want something new, SE can be quite inventive when they set their mind to it and I hope they come up with something completely new and different from both FFXIs 21-24h spawns and WoWs instanced raiding each week.

Last I would just like to say, because I saw a few people posting about it, whining about RDM melee and considering it to be a failure of SEs is just plain rediculus. The plans for classes/jobs change over time and seeing as how powerful RDMs are, not giving them more melee power as well is just beyond me how anyone could consider to be a "failure" of SE to listen to its public. If you want RDM to have more melee power, fine, but then SE has to make **** sure to nerf the **** out of RDMs non-melee side because there is something called "balance". Somehow I doubt that is something the majority of the RDM community would appreciate, including myself. Summoners etc yes, SE messed up there, but RDM... really guys, get some perspective.
#64 Oct 01 2009 at 7:30 AM Rating: Decent
Renowaikk the Meaningless wrote:
The playerbase has already shown that unless they make a ridiculous mob like PW or AV, a strategy will be out within days. You're right though. They should make all windows 2 hours, with a 50% drop rate. Oh, and only during prime time. Or, with what XIV looks like, slap fafnir on a guildlev, let everyone have an instanced crack at him. We'll have everyone running around in dalmaticas and ridills.


Ya, that would be an interesting point of view if it hadn't already been demonstrated in other games that there are plenty of ways to grant access to all content to any player who wants to see it and is willing to invest a reasonable amount of time into preparing for it while still reserving the "best" rewards for the most skilled and dedicated.

Please, for the love of Pete, it's time to think outside the FFXI box. Other things have been done in the MMO genre that are a more apt comparison for accessibility of content, and you don't do yourself any credit to try and downplay those things, ignore them, or spin them in a negative way in the defense of the way certain things were implemented in FFXI and then go on to cling to FFXI's ways as justification for how things should be in a new MMO.

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The problem is this: The people who dont have 'time' to get what they want complain about it. Because those who DO have time for it DON'T complain, SE only sees complaints.


Ya, at it's peak SE boasted 2 million subsribers. 1.5 million of those disliked the game enough to leave...a great many of them in the span of about a year. But preserving the game as it was for the sake of 25% of its subscribers was a brilliant business decision, amirite? And how many of those 500k are still playing the game not for the sake of the game, but for the sake of the friendships they've forged in the game and/or an unwillingness to set aside years of their hard-ground efforts to go do something new?

I want a good game. That is all. SE isn't in the business of forging friendships for people...they're a game developer. I could make friends in a free online chatroom and not have to worry about server stability, RMT, content patches, death penalties, in-game currency, or anything of the sort. People don't play an MMO for the relationships first, even though quite frequently it's the relationships that keep them around long after the game has lost its sparkle. Hence, SE needs to focus on the game and not the traps that will keep people playing.
#65 Oct 01 2009 at 7:46 AM Rating: Default
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I don't think it was so much that people disliked FFXI that made them leave, most left for WoW. :)
#66 Oct 01 2009 at 8:29 AM Rating: Good
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Oh ****, did I just see the "I deserve the rare crap because I wasted more timeworked harder than them!" argument. A ridill isn't a ferrari. A lot of people play games to escape reality, not to recreate it. Ego has very little place in a MMO, just how being "first" usually doesn't mean a whole **** of a lot and half the time said boaster really wasn't because those far more interested in just doing their thing aren't running around bragging.

That said, there's nothing wrong with ambition and wanting overcome a particular challenge, but let's remember what actually makes something challenging. It's not the time sinks. It's not beating botters. It's actually being able to fight your target and winning, from there hoping the random number generator doesn't Fire Crystal your ***, if that. There's no fun in a game you can't play because content gets locked out by claim systems or unforgiving time restrictions. Instanced content is a blessing, and while world spawns can still exist, they should never be a mainstream focus for loot or progress.
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#67 Oct 01 2009 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
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I kind of agree with Reno the angry Taru in a way. I think that people that put more time into a game should be rewarded a little more than those who don't.


I believe getting to play more is a reward in itself. I don't believe in the system of rewarding people who are rewarded.

It is kind of like saying that people who have a job, should pay less for food because they they put effort into their lives. People who don't have jobs should pay extra for food. But logically a person with a job would have more money than one without so the difference is just boosted.
#68 Oct 01 2009 at 10:36 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm just glad that they are using a different progression system. I want something that isn't the same song and dance. I'm sure there will be a grind to it, but that's kind of the mark of an MMO. The key here is content and gameplay. Maybe SE saw the light and have this game real jam packed with story and instances. Crafting.. TBH Crafting wasn't a bad interface for XI and it was no hassle. Auto-inventory should be a no-brainer at this point and the class-change system on equip is going to keep the action pretty fast paced.

XIV has a lot going for it. ****, the new Japanese trailer for XIII looked pretty good and the scale of those dinosaur things looked eerily "MMO-like". What I want to know is what are the recommended PC specs.
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#69 Oct 01 2009 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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Instances are nice for diverse play styles. The one thing I don't like about them is they break up the "living" feel of the world, warping you to empty places and negating the lands between. Of course I don't want to have to run all the way across the world every time I want to participate in something, I just want the warp to feel right and that its part of the world.
I still want there to be rare things in the world and rewards for exploring. I think a lot of NM problems could be fixed by randomizing the NM spawns' points and times. When SE originally thought up NMs I think they didn't intend people would actually camp them but rather go about there business and happen across them from time to time and that the spawn times were simply in place to make some NMs appear more/less often than others. This could also be helped with an expanded loot table. If lots of enemies have a chance to drop something valuable then there's less need to bottleneck and monopolize a single thing.
#70 Oct 01 2009 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Belcrono wrote:


Problem here is that using instanced content everyone having the best items is very likely to happen. Kraken clubs and Ridills are all rare, and I love that. If there were instanced ways of getting those(unless it is like BCNM style maybe, seems to have worked)there would without a doubt be Riddils and KCs all over the place. Problem is how to balance this so that everyone gets to fight the cool stuff, but not everyone runs around with the uber equipment. Ultra rare drops might be one way of doing it, problem is that 1 year later, everyone is gonna have that item anyway, unless the item is rare to the point of being rediculus at which point people would start whining about that.


So it's better for those HNM LS's to control all the rare items with a ton of people and bots? That's the problem, not anything else. Most people that built a relic did so thanks to gil brought in from bots selling HNM drops. Is that fair? Is it fair some LS bots a Faf and sells a Ridill for 5mil+ when their members already have one? Like it or not, the bots control the flow of power in FFXI. I don't see why anyone would want this same system in place for FFXIV unless they were apart of these bot infested LS's in FFXI.

If HNM style content is instanced though Guildeves and other controlled methods, the content will remain balanced, not skewed. Sure you'll have some loot ***** leader that will want to spam these HNM's to get gear and such, but compared to the days of botting, it won't have nowhere the same affect. You shouldn't have to be a member in an exclusive LS to have a chance at obtaining any drop. Yes, some items should be rare. However they must be distributed more evenly.
#71 Oct 01 2009 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
Belcrono wrote:
I can't really say I like the idea of 24h spawns that are at random times(worst of all is the 3h waits etc though imo) for all the reasons people have stated, but I also do not want to see everyone and their mother running around in whatever is the latest and best item out there.

Problem here is that using instanced content everyone having the best items is very likely to happen.


Not really.

The idea is that the rare stuff should represent significant achievement, not significant luck. Escalate the challenge so that not everyone can clear the content, but everyone can try if they want to and you have a winning scenario as long as you've got abundant content so that you don't have a segment of players resenting the game because "everything" worth doing is "too hard". Too much of FFXI was built around escalating luck and obscene commitment.
#72 Oct 02 2009 at 8:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Shadowedge, I wasn't asking for the exact same system because I agree with you, there are flaws and going with the FFXI system again would be a bad move. I thought I made it pretty clear(though obviosuly I wasn't clear enough, my bad) that somewhere in the middle of WoW instancing and FFXI HNMs etc would be the optimal. Optimally something completely new.

Aurelius, while I do agree that rare items should represent difficult achievements I still do not like to see the rarest stuff being used by everyone. WoW is a prime example where practically no item is rare and I don't like it(The only reason there even is an item not everyone has is because they keep raising the lvl cap rendering all equipment you've aquired useless, which I personally really don't like, I love how they keep adding stuff, but still keeping old equipment useful in FFXI). As a personal preference I can say that I prefer the FFXI way over WoW, but I completely understand why people don't agree, and tbh having the opinion I do doesn't really make much sense(ESPECIALLY since I myself get left out of the good stuff), but that is how I feel. Though like I mentioned earlier, I am hoping for something new with a better balance in FFXIV.

#73 Oct 02 2009 at 8:17 AM Rating: Good
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I still think the best MMO ideas I've read about are those who are more or less ignoring armors and weapons as a deciding factor for how well you will perform.

Stargate for example claims they intend to make it much more vital to have good cover for the shoot outs than to just carry the biggest gun.

Would be nice if tanks was more about positioning for example than which shield they have equipped. DD more about where they were aiming than which weapon they were using. Mages more about elemental resistance than which spell etc.
#74 Oct 02 2009 at 9:33 PM Rating: Good
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I think most people agree XI's HNM system is flawed and would much prefer instanced content and I agree for the most part, but as a few people have said there is the issue of keeping the 'best of the best' gear rare and for sure not everyone should come across that gear with out significant time investment. Yes it's a game and goal 1 is to have fun but in the long run there has to be tiers of success or the game WILL grow stale very quick.

So how do they please everyone? well they probably cant 100% but they can compromise. So anyway I've had a few ideas of how they could go about things.
(my only point of reference is FFXI btw)

Have decent instanced content with similar difficulty to Nyzul Isle post nerf/update With good gear drops for your average player.

Create lots of side grade equip from different events for the good gear but not the 'Godlike gear'

Keep pop item monsters like gods and lesser nm's like the O hat nm, so you still have large scale fights in the game world (altho to be honest I think these types of fights will be axed)

Now for HNM's I was thinking some kind of instanced dungeons with lesser rewards but not worthless rewards, where rather than fight through a ton of mobs and fight fafnir for your drops the boss isn't the hnm but more just for completion maybe netting you points to spend on equip, gil, exp or all of the above. Now the HNM itself would be a random factor where there is a chance the HNM would pop during your run, say a 20% chance it would pop.

I think doing it this way would be good for several reasons, it means yes every kind of player casual to hardcore can take part but the casual players who would maybe do this once a week would stand a much smaller chance of meeting the HNM but would still be getting pretty decent rewards from the main objective with at least some chance of hitting the big one. The hardcore players wouldn't be able to spam the **** out of the same HNM everyday so the world wouldn't be flooded with the rare drops.
I also think it would be fun and challenging, you couldn't go to an HNM and know exactly what to do, one possible scenario; Your group is trying control a few mobs killing them off to progress when Cerberus comes charging down the cavern so your leader/alliance will have to think quick and deal with the situation.
Obviously SE would have to decide on drop rates and spawn chance rates to get the right balance.

Maybe I'm just talking crap idk but I'd like to know peoples thoughts.



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#75 Oct 03 2009 at 7:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Renowaikk wrote:
The playerbase has already shown that unless they make a ridiculous mob like PW or AV, a strategy will be out within days. You're right though. They should make all windows 2 hours, with a 50% drop rate. Oh, and only during prime time. Or, with what XIV looks like, slap fafnir on a guildlev, let everyone have an instanced crack at him. We'll have everyone running around in dalmaticas and ridills.


I can tell you don't want to see your beloved XI come to an end or login one day to see WG looking like a ghost town, but you have to think about it rationally. Its not all about gear and who does or doesn't deserve it because they didn't pay dues. It's a game. The purpose is to have fun. Some people login just to chat with friends. Some craft, fish or farm for fun. Run some BCNM or group up for quests or missions. Salvage, Limbus, Dynamis or even MMM. All of these things are enjoyed by the playerbase. Should they shrink the windows? Yes, but the drop rate should be reduced and not increased. Just because you give someone a shot at an instanced mob does not mean you'll flood the world with rare items. Three words for you.... Up in arms.

Renowaikk wrote:
The problem is this: The people who dont have 'time' to get what they want complain about it. Because those who DO have time for it DON'T complain, SE only sees complaints. So now they're gonna cater to those who probably shouldnt have been playing XI in the first place. I have very low hopes for XIV. It's not SE's fault though, I believe they're actually listening. SE's a business afterall, and its bad business to cater to the minority (hard core gamer). Everyones trying to get a piece of WoW's pie, it'd be a poor decision to not try to.


When I used to play for hours a day before I had school and job to contend for my time I still ******* about the spawn situation. Not because I didn't have the time, but because it quite frankly sucks. I don't understand why you think casual gamers do not deserve to play or should not at least have a shot at rare gear just as people with no time constraints do. We pay the same subscription fee that you do.

I have played XI since just after NA launch and I too have low expectations for XIV just based on the history with XI. I think their best chance at having a solid game is by having a large amount of diverse and varied content that is accessable for both the hardcore and casual gamer. We all pay for the same content and we should all have a chance to experience all of it. It shouldn't be as much about taking a piece of the WoW pie as it is bringing the cake and ice cream.
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#76 Oct 03 2009 at 3:52 PM Rating: Default
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I stopped playing FFXI a long time ago. I left for WoW, becuase like so many others FFXI frustrated me. Easily a huge mistake. Wow was boring. Nothing is a challenge. I played WoW for barely over a month before I quite and had my toon maxed(60 at the time) and Leatherworking/skinning maxed. FFXI was never boring for me. Frustrating yes. Timeconsuming yes. Slow yes. But never boring.

My only fear for FFXIV is that it's going to be too much like WoW becuase of all the "aim for the casual gamer" talk. I hope it's more like FFXI than WoW if that's all we have to go by but I'm really hoping it's like neither. Something completely new.

There's no way to completely satisfy everyone when it comes to NM/rare gear/instancing. NMs were a great deal of fun for me except for the bots so I understand and agree with both sides to a point. NMs are sweet. Bots are not which leads to instancing and that leads to getting rid of NMs.

What about some of both? Make the bigger NMs with the best of the best equipment instanced so people don't cry about it. But leave some NMs as NMs such as leapin lizzy. He had a pretty good drop but you don't hear anyone crying about it becuase it's not end game. Or.. Make all NMs instanced with a player cap in the instance such as 10 players. That way there would still be some competition for those that want it but it's only 10 people.

In the end though there will never be 100% satisfaction. Some people want to play games that hold your hand(WoW) and some people want to play games that drive you mad with frustration(FFXI). The developers get to decide what direction FFXIV will go. I say wait till the game comes out to see which type it is and if it's not your type.. well then don't play it. I personally don't have enough information about the game yet to make any decisions or wild accusations. SE is doing a good job with the media so far becuase well... look at all of us here. Arguing over a game that's not out yet about information we don't have yet. They have us all aching for more. Admit it, you know I'm right.
#77 Oct 03 2009 at 3:52 PM Rating: Good
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I've always said a MMO should simply have multiple paths.

The fast lane and the slow lane. Slow lane could give you trivial bonuses like titles, special difficult areas etc. The fast lane would just hand stuff on a plate.

That way people who want to play can pick the fast lane and get things done, and people who want to challenge themselves can do the slow lane and put more effort into the game. The only thing you'd lose out on is that you can't brag about getting a ridill after 5 fafnirs, because the easy people got them from a quest.

(Considering that people seem to be item whores, I'd actually think everyone would pick the easy way.)
#78 Oct 03 2009 at 5:34 PM Rating: Good
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
I kind of agree with Reno the angry Taru in a way. I think that people that put more time into a game should be rewarded a little more than those who don't.


There is a restaurant with two waitresses working. One works an 8 hour shift but does nothing but stand around hoping someone sits in her section, the other works only a 4 hour shift but busts her **** getting people to her tables and making sure that their glasses are always full and that they have a good experience.

Guess who probably made more money.

The amount of time you spend doing something doesn't mean you are putting hard work into it. And no you shouldn't be rewarded just for the amount of time you spend playing again, but rather, what you accomplish with the time you do spend. Your accomplishments should be based off of your skill as a player, and not the fact that you spent hours sitting in front of your screen.

Thankfully, though, I'm pretty sure they mentioned in an interview that this game was going to be geared more towards skill and less towards time. I just hope they stick to their promise.


#79 Oct 05 2009 at 3:37 AM Rating: Decent
Super boiled down NSFW judgment call not to be viewed by those who need a whaaaambulance incoming:

I could ******* jack off to the amount of hurt **** in this thread and use the years worth of MMO fan ***** tears to cut down on friction/heat.

Though the OP appears to have good intentions, threads like this just invite bleeding hearts and people who don't know how to scale their emotions/nerd rage. Let it the **** go.

FFXI has problems, FFXIV will also not be perfect, babies will be killed tomorrow, sheep will be raped, money will be stolen, people will turn to christianity/islam/scientology/any other cult, someone is going to green light a Micheal Bay project...the world is imperfect. Get the **** over it.
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#80 Oct 05 2009 at 4:22 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I still love FFXI, I don't understand hostility from the playerbase, especially those that spend so much time on the forums for the game. I've been around since the PS2 release and can honestly say today's FFXI is a much better game than it was then.

I would have to vehemently disagree with you on this. I think todays FFXI is a much watered down simplistic version of what it was back then. Strategy, tactics, knowledge, skill... all gone compared to what you had to be capable of in the beginning. I think the MPK patch was the beginning of the end.

And Hyanmen, you are just so far off the mark I wouldn't know where to begin.

As for the OP, I quit FFXI and am reserving judgement on FFXIV. Yes, I am one of those hoping that SE will pull their collective heads out of their asses. Years of player neglect, of secrecy, of ignoring issues, of ignorance, on SE's part however leave me quite skeptical that they will.
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#81 Oct 05 2009 at 6:53 AM Rating: Decent
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To answer the question from OP ignoring everything between that and here-

I troll here once every other week for the lols when I run out of reading materials D:

Chances are I won't join XIV for one simple reason, their customer service. If I am going to CONSIDER joining XIV, they need to fix how customer service works. I am not going to bother with a game with how they been treating XI lately with the random bans and half-assed TOS enforcement.
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#82 Oct 05 2009 at 10:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I would have to vehemently disagree with you on this. I think todays FFXI is a much watered down simplistic version of what it was back then. Strategy, tactics, knowledge, skill... all gone compared to what you had to be capable of in the beginning. I think the MPK patch was the beginning of the end.


But the beginning was just about getting NIN, RNG and BLM for everything. Absoring -ga spells with 1 shadow, no level correction on arrows, BLMs dealing good damage at safe distance.

There is a reason they all were nerfed after all. (Well BLM wasn't nerfed, they just never got any new magic weak mobs)
#83 Oct 05 2009 at 12:38 PM Rating: Decent
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I hope I will not be playing XIV because my friends and I are at work making an MMO for us and our friends. If I end up playing it, that means we were a failure.

I am here to see the ideas everyone says about why or why not they enjoyed FFXI and maybe implementing the ideas into our game. Also, I've been an FF fan since III (US III that is), maybe even since I. Also Square fan as well. I might end up playing it just to try it out and enjoy all there is about FF. After all, they did say they were trying to make it the best FF ever.
#84 Oct 05 2009 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I would have to vehemently disagree with you on this. I think todays FFXI is a much watered down simplistic version of what it was back then. Strategy, tactics, knowledge, skill... all gone compared to what you had to be capable of in the beginning. I think the MPK patch was the beginning of the end.


What kind of "strategy" is there to walking into a zone and dying before your screen even loads? What "strategy" is there to someone deciding you're not allowed to have an NM and bring a train of aggro mobs upon you while their buddies pick off the NM after you wipe? I know people love to claim the depop as inelegant or unrealistic, but the alternative "they just run really fast back to their roaming area and won't aggro anything!" approach is pretty much just the same, but can be potentially slower than depops depending on the actual distance a mob was trained. I don't miss that FFXI.

If we're going to change the subject to the death of SCs and MBs, then I guess I'd agree. However, the inefficiency of those can divert to a number of issues: crappy WS, people not wanting to rest MP, and mob EXP cutting off after a certain number of levels where an MB could be useful and therefore just encouraging the TP spam on weaker ****.

With XI's numerous flaws, at this point all I can do is anticipate XIV to be a clean slate with said flaws covered from the get-go. More specific to XI, people have kinda finalized jobs so tightly into roles where walking off the beaten path gets you called a noob or worse. This won't immediately be the case for XIV, I'd hope, but SE should also go the extra mile to encourage numerous builds instead of a select few.
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#85 Oct 05 2009 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
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IfritsFreylin wrote:
Quote:
I still love FFXI, I don't understand hostility from the playerbase, especially those that spend so much time on the forums for the game. I've been around since the PS2 release and can honestly say today's FFXI is a much better game than it was then.

I would have to vehemently disagree with you on this. I think todays FFXI is a much watered down simplistic version of what it was back then. Strategy, tactics, knowledge, skill... all gone compared to what you had to be capable of in the beginning. I think the MPK patch was the beginning of the end.
I challenge you to name one boss encounter pre-Promathia that was something more than tank and spank or "kite the mob in circles."
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Thank god I stopped playing MMOs.
#86 Oct 05 2009 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Zackary wrote:
IfritsFreylin wrote:
Quote:
I still love FFXI, I don't understand hostility from the playerbase, especially those that spend so much time on the forums for the game. I've been around since the PS2 release and can honestly say today's FFXI is a much better game than it was then.

I would have to vehemently disagree with you on this. I think todays FFXI is a much watered down simplistic version of what it was back then. Strategy, tactics, knowledge, skill... all gone compared to what you had to be capable of in the beginning. I think the MPK patch was the beginning of the end.
I challenge you to name one boss encounter pre-Promathia that was something more than tank and spank or "kite the mob in circles."


Wasn't there quite a few? The good old Ash dragon for example was a pretty good "stun or die" monster, though Cerberus did it better.
#87 Oct 07 2009 at 8:29 AM Rating: Decent
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If you want an example of how stubborn SE can be when it comes to development, take a look at the available races we'll have for FFXIV. We're getting the exact same thing all over again no matter what the players want. As for gameplay, I'm certain they are heading in the opposite direction of FFXI here. Not because of complaints about the time sinks and inaccessability in FFXI, but rather they are looking at the most profitable MMO on the market and want to copy that style as much as possible... just like every other MMO that has come out in the last four years.

I'm probably going to buy FFXIV when it comes out (I've been googling 'rapture' and 'ffxi-2' for years), but if it turns into yet another game where I kill X of Y monsters for Z quests by myself until I get bored, I won't last past the first month. From what I've read about the game so far, it sounds like that's already built in. FFXI, despite it's flaws, never felt that shallow when I played it. The variety of party make-ups, the cooperation required for magic bursts/skill chains, and the lack of filler quests like those mentioned above, all kept the game interesting for me. I only quit when I got to 75 and couldn't find help to complete any of my remaining missions.

#88 Oct 10 2009 at 3:37 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I'm probably going to buy FFXIV when it comes out (I've been googling 'rapture' and 'ffxi-2' for years), but if it turns into yet another game where I kill X of Y monsters for Z quests by myself until I get bored, I won't last past the first month.


It is hilarious because you have been playing kill X of Y monsters for ZERO quests for your whole FFXI life.
#89 Oct 10 2009 at 6:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, but farming isn't really any different (it's often worse because the drop rates are so ridiculous).
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