I’m so bored with the ridiculous argument that FFXI doesn’t have strategic and challenging gameplay especially when it’s coming from someone who’s arguing that Aion (a WOW clone) has more to offer in that department.
I'm so bored with ridiculous argument that Aion doesn't have strategic and challenging gameplay especially when it's coming from someone who's watching youtube and thinks that he knows the game.
Do understand that I don't say that FFXI as a whole game doesn't have strategic and challenging gameplay. What I said is simply for EXP PT. One of the best fights in any game for me was killing Alexander with literally seconds left on the clock that my party didn't know whether we won or got kicked out of the BC until we got the victory cutscene.
And just because I don't think FFXI EXP PT has no challenge doesn't make the game bad. I'm surprised at how people seem to be offended by that. If EXP PT is challenging for you, then you're doing it wrong.
Even in the best FFXI parties, the chance of getting owned by the mob or mobs is always prevalent.
So how come I haven't experienced a single death in EXP PT from SAM50s to SAM73? Can't remember anyone dying either from my numerous merit PTs on MNK. How about the norm of 100+ chain merit PTs, do they do that when someone died? Let alone a PT wipe, someone died in EXP PT happens so very rare, and should never actually happen if people know what they're doing (e.g.: not linking on pull, mages with proper MP management, tank that doesn't suck, etc)
You’ll see that that not only is Aion really the same rehashed – see a monster – click a monster – mash your action bar - watch a monster die gameplay,
I can also make a video of FFXI where we go see a monster - click a monster - wait TP to hit 100 - WS - repeat - watch a monster die gameplay. Your point?
Btw, just so you know, you link the same video on both. Might want to change the first video's URL.
As seen in the 2nd video, even the game's more (supposedly) challenging mobs have basically no AI other than roaring and spamming the same attack at you.
I would even guess that if the person in the video wasn’t mashing their action bar, the mobs would still just probably die from normal attacks.
This vid alone is proof that Aion's level of challenge and strategy are no where near that of FFXI’s.
What it shows is your obvious lack of knowledge about Aion at all. First of all, that character is a Templar which is a tank. Of course she didn't take a lot of damage, because it's her role to be a tank. Second of all, you obviously didn't understand the skills involved and used in that video, but you should've still realized that she used numerous buffs and debuffs as well as chaining her skills. To make such an uneducated comment as "I would even guess that if the person in the video wasn’t mashing their action bar, the mobs would still just probably die from normal attacks."
clearly showed your lack of understanding of what's going on.
FFXI example (Party Trio)- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQgm2zvfu1w
The tank is constantly in danger, almost dies 4x, would have died if it weren’t for the mage’s interaction, resulting in the death of the entire trio… quite a far cry from the…
click a monster – mash your action bar (if your feeling energetic) - watch a monster die gameplay from Aion.
Ask yourself this question. Is 3-man party the norm in FFXI? The answer is no. Can't you find an example of the challenge using the norm of 6-man EXP PT?
Then let's move on to the content of the video itself. The "tank" is a BLU. When you said that he was constantly in danger, ask this question, what danger? Low HP? The mage has A LOT of MP. The BLU being low in HP doesn't show any danger at all. It simply shows that the mage waited til BLU was low in HP before curing. Then also notice that in this 3-man PT, the "DD" is a friggin DNC. When you have a BLU-DNC-(WHM?) PT, you'd be SUPER SAFE but slow kill. Every single party member can cure and you call that the tank was in constant danger? Not only that you had no clue about Aion, you seem to have no idea about FFXI either.
For 6-man EXP PT, have a look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL-tqTvO7f0
Show me the challenge in this 1-minute fight? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8-VsYyNwFM&feature=related
Show me the challenge in this 5-minute video that has 30-40second fights?
Think of anything yet? Probably not.
Admittedly the already successful 400,000 user base of Aion is an impressive feat in today’s volatile MMO market…
but if FFXIV doesn’t quadruple that number at launch, I’ll eat my own copy and post it on youtube.
Do understand that Aion has around 3.5 million subscribers in Korea alone. Are you still willing to bet that FFXIV would quadruple that number?
Pious is exactly the kind of person that I consider as falling into the fanboyism trap because of the glorification of something that he likes and the constant dissing of other things that aren't what he likes. It's perfectly fine to like FFXI more than Aion. It's perfectly fine to not like Aion. But to exaggerate the so-called "challenge" in that FFXI trio video (that only consists of auto-attack and a few spells usage) while calling Aion solo not challenging (despite the numerous usage of skills) is pretty sad.
I'll put it this way. In FFXI, most abilities last quite long and has an even longer recast time. You use Berserk? That lasts you 3 minutes and after 2 minutes of no Berserk, you can use it again. So basically in 5 minute time span you use Berserk once. You can use Berserk, forgot about it for 4 minutes and suddenly remember about it on the fifth minue and be okay.
In Aion, most abilities last very short time with shorter cool down. You have to constantly be aware of your cool down timer and be ready to use the skill at the right time. During the short cool down of 1 skill (say 15 second cool down), you'd also have to know which other skills you should use. So while soloing a mob in Aion takes shorter time than soloing in FFXI, the level of challenge is higher because of the number of things that you have to do in that short period of time.
I'll give an example soloing in Aion with my Assassin in FFXI-equivalent terms. I'll use level 16 to show that things are quite busy even at low level. Invi yourself, sneak attack a mob to open the fight, use pattern skill 1 and pattern skill 2 to make level 2 pattern, use skill 3 and chain it with skill 4. Mob about to use special attack? use evasion skill, after evading, use counter skill to stun the mob, use skill 3 and chain it with skill 4 again, use pattern skill 1 and 2 again to make level 4 pattern, use skill 5 to detonate the pattern (the higher pattern level you create, the higher damage and chance to stun), mob got stunned, run around behind the mob and sneak attack again, mob dies. All of that happens in say 30 seconds.
How is that not more strategic/challenging than FFXI? If melee, say you solo as SAM/DNC, you basically use samba (whenever it's off), waltz (if you need to cure), meditate (every 3 minutes), hasso/seigan (as needed), third eye (if seigan), sekkanoki (if 100TP+), WS (every 100TP), and that's it. During the fight itself, you'll be seeing a lot of auto-attack and doing nothing else.
Again, I still play both Aion and FFXI, and I like both games. But even I can see clearly the differences between the two games and try to judge based on what's in those games rather than biased silly opinions. To me, FFXI is more relaxing. Aion is way more hectic. Both are appealing for different reasons. Just because the two games are different doesn't have to mean that one is great and the other is crap. Don't fall deeper to fanboyism trap, Pious. Edited, Oct 1st 2009 9:55am by Vaagan