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Aion is full of RMT I hope SE is ready to battle in FFXIV.Follow

#1 Oct 01 2009 at 1:07 AM Rating: Good
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The rmt tells in Aion are so bad you can not even go a minute with out getting a tell. I sure hope SE is ready to take action. And we don't see a repeat of inflation ect like we did in FFXI.
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#2 Oct 01 2009 at 2:22 AM Rating: Decent
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The interview ends with Tanaka saying things will be different from how FFXI started because they will take action against RMT from the very beginning this time around.
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#3 Oct 01 2009 at 2:43 AM Rating: Good
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They can start up doing whatever they want; RMT'll find a work around eventually. What Square needs to do is make it so money is easy enough to come by but hard enough to not cause hyper inflation. That way, even though there will be RMT (because anyone that believes there is a way to eliminate them 100% is deluded), people won't have any need or desire to use their services. If people don't need to, then they won't try nearly as hard to make life difficult for everyone else. It'd be a waste of time for them when they could be making money on Aion.
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#4 Oct 01 2009 at 4:54 AM Rating: Decent
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I would agree with you lolgaxe, and I think the perfect way to do that is to increase yields on base materials and limit rare items to instanced occurrences that everyone can take their shot at. Making those extra rare items non-tradeable is fairly important too. Let's face it though, a contributing factor to FFXI's economic issues is that crafting did not work, and while breaks where aggravating it's the fact that a large amount of the time the materials cost more than the average price of the final product. No one wanted to farm all day to get just a few stacks of a material and then sell that material at a small cost. Gathering from gathering points was even a worse issue as it was incredibly unproductive. While increasing material flow will lower material cost, if done correctly it can assure farmers and gathers make a steady flow of income comparable to time spent, and it assures crafters get the materials they need at prices they can prosper with. A productive, goods and services based economy, yes. A nonproductive economy based on gil/hours spent economy, no.


Edited, Oct 2nd 2009 4:23pm by waveren
#5 Oct 01 2009 at 5:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm actually unsure whether making money is easy/hard enough would affect RMT at all. In Aion, it's fairly easy to make money but RMT is still there. In FFXI, it's supposedly hard to make money, and RMT is there too. To me, RMT will always be there. Just keep on banning those who buy gil.
#6 Oct 01 2009 at 5:31 AM Rating: Decent
Has SE ever banned anyone for buying gil?
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#7 Oct 01 2009 at 5:41 AM Rating: Good
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im hoping it'll be a bit like the WoW. RMT in WoW have had no impact on me at anytime when I played. Money is easy enough to get, but not so easy that you could just level and then go to the auction house and buy the best equipment.
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#8 Oct 01 2009 at 5:47 AM Rating: Default
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Kirbster wrote:
Quote:
The interview ends with Tanaka saying things will be different from how FFXI started because they will take action against RMT from the very beginning this time around.


Quote:
Sage Sundi will be returning as the Global Online Producer and Lead Game Master.


Quote:
When asked how GM policies might change, Sundi doubts there will be any significant changes from Final Fantasy XI
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#9 Oct 01 2009 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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The real trick is to start playing an MMO early while the economy is still establishing so that you have a leg up on RMT. There's no real way to stop someone from wanting to buy their way through a game, but if you want the hardcore experience then get into an MMO early, any MMO.

It happens in real life, it happens in online games. Some people buy their way through while others play the game by the rules. It's a part of the social experience. I'm not saying it's right, but it is what it is. Eventually, when things start inflating due to RMT you'll be riding on top of the wave rather than being crushed by it.

Edited, Oct 1st 2009 5:17pm by Lefein
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#10 Oct 01 2009 at 1:31 PM Rating: Decent
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SE does a fine job keeping the RMT in check in FFXI these days. As long as they're equally effective in FFXIV, there shouldn't be any major problems. I'm willing to bet that NCSoft doesn't do nearly as much to combat RMT in Aion.
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#11 Oct 01 2009 at 2:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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A good method is to make all of the nice gear character bound and off of group bosses. Now you can't just go to the AH and be "leet" for a party.
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#12 Oct 01 2009 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent
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I think the key is to have system that ensures RMT have as little impact on actual game play as possible. In FFXI RMT were this tangible presence, monopolizing mobs and spawn points, you knew they were there. In WoW I didn't notice them nearly as much, don't think I've actually recognized one at all. Same with Aion so far. You still get the /tells and what not of course, but those are easily ignored.
#13 Oct 01 2009 at 3:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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CommanderKing wrote:
Kirbster wrote:
Quote:
The interview ends with Tanaka saying things will be different from how FFXI started because they will take action against RMT from the very beginning this time around.


Quote:
Sage Sundi will be returning as the Global Online Producer and Lead Game Master.


Quote:
When asked how GM policies might change, Sundi doubts there will be any significant changes from Final Fantasy XI


GM policies don't have much to do with design choices for combating RMT. If anything, XI has been doing a pretty good job in combating RMT. If they stay on par for XIV from the very beginning, that'd be just fine with me.
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#14 Oct 01 2009 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
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In Aion, money is insanely easy to come buy. RMT were there day one. I think its something that people are just going to have to accept. If you want to play MMORPGs, you're going to have to put up with RMT.
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#15 Oct 01 2009 at 4:55 PM Rating: Good
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There are already websites dedicated to selling Gil for FFXIV. Seriously, google it. Doing a /whois on the sites explains the obvious of course.
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#16 Oct 01 2009 at 5:19 PM Rating: Good
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RMT will always be there, and the only ways to combat them ends with them hurting other players (see gardening ban instance of FFXI, or them resorting to player hacking because they are so tough on them). Imo the best thing for them to do is find a way to track down gil buyers and make it more a gamble that people won't even attempt to buy gil and thus hurts the RMT, and than you need to make sure all the best stuff in the game cannot be exploited or monopolized by a single group or mass of people like it is in FFXI in some instances. If the only thing we have to deal with is obnoxious /tells /whispers, than staff has done its job, and hopefully they add some better filtering options so its easier to ignore /tells if you want to but not neccesarily from your linkshell or group or something.

The reasaon the FFXI RMT was so infamous was because the economy wasn't designed for mass introduction of gil at a given time and NM's could be easily monopolized because of super long respwn timers. Guild Leve should destroy the NM problem and better itemization and artificial gil sinks should solve the other issue.

Edited, Oct 1st 2009 9:21pm by croythegreat
#17 Oct 01 2009 at 10:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Has SE ever banned anyone for buying gil?


I have heard from certain players that they were banned for buying gil.

But, of course, they were already shady characters and very well could have been banned for other activities.


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#18 Oct 02 2009 at 12:05 PM Rating: Decent
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In MMOs where money is easy to come by, RMT are **** near nonexistent because people don't ever feel like they need to buy in game currency to get by. World of Warcraft and Saga of Ryzom come to mind. If there is no market for it then people won't try to make a profit off of it.

Games like FFXI where you actually have to put a lot of effort into making money people tend to get lazy and wanting a easier way out. That is where RMT come in because there is a market for it.

The only way you will ever see RMT out of FFXIV is if Square decides to make a game where items aren't so much in demand.

A random idea that comes to mind, imagine a monster, this monster has skin, meat and bones right? Realistically speaking this monster should always have these things on it right? Not in FFXI they don't.

Take for example the raptors in FFXI, when I was leveling leathercraft and got to raptor skins I wanted to pull my hair out trying to farm them. In FFXI you had a greater chance of not getting a skin then getting it.

As long as FFXIV follows these rules on top of Gil already being scarce, like buying an item from an NPC and then selling it back for an over 60% loss, it's going to open up the flood gates for RMT. Add to that Square's crappy policies when dealing with RMT and you're just welcoming them into FFXIV.

With all that said we don't know how it's all going to play out. How the game mechanics are going to work and all that. I for one am going to cross my fingers and hope they learned and not pull the same **** again.

tl;dr

FFXI was made for RMT to prosper in because of how the game itself worked.

#19 Oct 02 2009 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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CupDeNoodles speaks to exactly what I was saying. Money is not the issue here. Money is flexible. It's the goods and their supply that need addressing. RMT affect economies with monopolization and inflation that is the main reason for the disruption. Between monopolizing the super rare items and buying out stocks and adjusting prices RMT hike prices beyond their actual worth. Increasing player access to in-game goods takes alot of RMT power to influence economy away. Sure, RMT will still be there but the impact on the economy is far less apparent.

You'll always have RMT and banning them is only a temporary set back for them. There will always be that guy who doesn't want to take the time to make money legitimately and buy whatever he needs with real money. I wont say SE hasn't done some good in fighting RMT, after all economies across the servers have improved, and it looks as though steps being placed into FFXIV will be effective. With that said I would like to see more action similar to instancing NM's, as seems to be the oncoming case in FFXIV, and increased drops of goods rather than a witch hunt on RMT.

What we have in FFXI is not so much an economy based on supply and demand (though certainty an influence), but rather an economy based on hours spent, price controls on supply, and monopolization on the demands of the players. FFXIV needs to address these issue in-kind with increased access to goods, price determined by demand, and equal ability to obtain goods. Well at least that's my opinion.


Edited, Oct 2nd 2009 4:28pm by waveren
#20 Oct 03 2009 at 3:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Yea, Aion is filled with RMT (shouters and tellers) which are annoying, but less so than in FFXI. (Mostly because it is so much spam anyways with LFG!! and SELLING STUFF shouts)

I also don't see any particular need to buy money since a decent amount of armors just plain drop while you play (or come from quests). It might get more interesting with money later (when you might want a matching armor pair, and not a mish-mash of whatever you found) but hopefully the game will work fine anyway.
#21 Oct 03 2009 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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CupDeNoodles wrote:
In MMOs where money is easy to come by, RMT are **** near nonexistent because people don't ever feel like they need to buy in game currency to get by.

Unless the economy is player driven, in which case inflation causes currency to be worthless in the amounts that you can "easily" find it.
Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it.

Quote:
The only way you will ever see RMT out of FFXIV is if Square decides to make a game where items aren't so much in demand.

A random idea that comes to mind, imagine a monster, this monster has skin, meat and bones right? Realistically speaking this monster should always have these things on it right? Not in FFXI they don't.

Take for example the raptors in FFXI, when I was leveling leathercraft and got to raptor skins I wanted to pull my hair out trying to farm them. In FFXI you had a greater chance of not getting a skin then getting it.

They were trying to keep the market from becoming saturated with that particular item. As for it not making sense, that's debatable. I'd imagine there are few pieces of usable hides left on a monster after a party of 6 has spent the last minute slicing it up and setting it on fire.


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#22 Oct 03 2009 at 4:41 PM Rating: Default
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There are some solutions to lower how effective RMT can be but some of them come at the cost of drastically reducing some potentially really fun aspects of the game.

For example NMs. NM camping was fun but RMT took advantage of it resulting in NMs either being changed or completely done away with. In a perfect world where RMT weren't camping certain NMs 24/7 the playerbase would have greater access to those NMs. Greater access to the mob would reduce frustration by reducing competition and aquiring the item easier. So the theory of NMs was brilliant, players ruined it.

As for crafting. They can combat how important NM drops are by granting better craftable equipment at more reasonable material expenses. For example if they make craftable items comparable with NM drops the playerbase will have two sources for similar items. In that way if you prefer crafting over NM camping you can go that route and if you prefer NM camping over crafting you can do that too. That would help combat RMT as I don't think they're interested in spending the amount of time required to level a craft. A similar craftable item would mean fewer people interested in the NM drop counterpart thus reducing sales for the RMT. Possible problems with that though would be RMT monopolizing mats making prices of equipment go up.

SE could kill the middle man by selling Gil directly. It would allow players that want to buy their way to awesome equipment to do so and get rid of or at least reduce RMT. Reduced RMT would mean fewer NM camping rmt/bot. There will always be some players that use bots whether they're into RMT or not. But if they're not RMT they won't be camping the same NMs 24/7. They would have other things they'd want to do. They probably bot the NM till they get a drop so they can sell it to get money to support their other interests. They'd probably only camp the NMs for a drop every so often leaving plenty of time in between for other players to get a shot at it. Of course it's all hypothetical and we have no way of knowing if this would actually work or not.

They could also make all NM drops bind on equip. That would mean only people wanting to use the equipment would camp for it. It would also reduce a big source of revenue for some players though.

The goal is to implement the right combination of anti-rmt ideas so as to reduce their influence on the games economy without actually changing the game. Reducing their presence, effect on economy, effect on availability of items/materials, while keeping the original idea of the game intact would be perfect. Too bad we don't live in a perfect world.
#23 Oct 03 2009 at 6:19 PM Rating: Decent
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A simple Regular Expression would deal with 90% of the spam on Aion. A slightly more complex one would deal with 99% of it and make it very hard to advertise like that in game.

NCSoft dropped the ball on this one. I'm hoping they take at least a few minutes and block 90% of it. It'd be great if they took an hour or two and made it very very difficult to get around the blocker. (And, no, it really is NOT that hard to do if you know enough about regex matching.)
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#24 Oct 04 2009 at 9:50 PM Rating: Decent
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I looked into (but didn't join) another 'free to play' mmo recently from China, but have forgotten the name. They basically had RMT built into the game. You could pay dollars to get one ingame currency that was mainly available that way. There was another ingame currency that you got from killing mobs. Their auction house was set up to let you buy one with the other. The company that runs the game gets all the dollars and the people who want to engage in RMT on either side are allowed to safely.

But you couldn't effectively make dollars by massing the general ingame currency, as you're competing with folks who are piling up gold (or whatever) to buy credits to pay for their own extras, so most of the annoying side of RMT is addressed. This seems like a better method of dealing with it rather than attempting to police it, unless you really want to stop it all, which most of the commenters here seem to think is unlikely.
#25 Oct 05 2009 at 1:02 AM Rating: Decent
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The only real challenge in XI is how to obtain endless amounts of gil. It's a horrible flaw to base your game around currency, in relation to combatting RMT. You need to make gil a minor player consideration, not the overwhelming necessity. Make the best/better items obtained through other means.. Means far less susceptible to be overcome with a credit card. I don't know, perhaps something to do with playing the game?

Edited, Oct 5th 2009 5:03am by Carrilei
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#26 Oct 05 2009 at 3:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Personally I'd like to see FFXIV use a method similar to EVEOnline's for combating RMT. The game money is called ISK. At the Official website you can buy PLEX (Pilots License Extension) which when used allows 30 days of game play time. The PLEX is delivered to your Hanger and you can then use it to play the game or you can sell it on the market (like an AH). EVE also has regular monthly subscription fees you can use to play instead as well. The PLEX is just another option.

This allows people who are miners/crafters/etc to use the ISK they make to buy game time off the market and play for free basically and it allows those just starting out to be able to buy in-game money legally. Another interesting thing is that the PLEX=ISK conversion is cheaper than buying it from RMT. So EVE combats the RMT by direct competition.

Also, while EVE has a 2 week trial account, you are limited in what you can do, meaning you are not going to be able to make tons of ISK to sell on a trial account. They also combat illegal ISK buyers. If they catch you (and they seem to be fairly good at it) they don't ban your account, they take the amount of ISK you bought away from you even if it puts your character in the negative.

As far as RMT in chats I only saw them in the "Rookie" channel and those were easily blocked and have never gotten a /tell from one. The "Rookie" channel goes away after 30 days and you will never see another RMT anything again.
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#27 Oct 05 2009 at 5:01 AM Rating: Good
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Nalamwen wrote:
There are some solutions to lower how effective RMT can be but some of them come at the cost of drastically reducing some potentially really fun aspects of the game.

For example NMs. NM camping was fun but RMT took advantage of it resulting in NMs either being changed or completely done away with. In a perfect world where RMT weren't camping certain NMs 24/7 the playerbase would have greater access to those NMs. Greater access to the mob would reduce frustration by reducing competition and aquiring the item easier. So the theory of NMs was brilliant, players ruined it.

As for crafting. They can combat how important NM drops are by granting better craftable equipment at more reasonable material expenses. For example if they make craftable items comparable with NM drops the playerbase will have two sources for similar items. In that way if you prefer crafting over NM camping you can go that route and if you prefer NM camping over crafting you can do that too. That would help combat RMT as I don't think they're interested in spending the amount of time required to level a craft. A similar craftable item would mean fewer people interested in the NM drop counterpart thus reducing sales for the RMT. Possible problems with that though would be RMT monopolizing mats making prices of equipment go up.

SE could kill the middle man by selling Gil directly. It would allow players that want to buy their way to awesome equipment to do so and get rid of or at least reduce RMT. Reduced RMT would mean fewer NM camping rmt/bot. There will always be some players that use bots whether they're into RMT or not. But if they're not RMT they won't be camping the same NMs 24/7. They would have other things they'd want to do. They probably bot the NM till they get a drop so they can sell it to get money to support their other interests. They'd probably only camp the NMs for a drop every so often leaving plenty of time in between for other players to get a shot at it. Of course it's all hypothetical and we have no way of knowing if this would actually work or not.

They could also make all NM drops bind on equip. That would mean only people wanting to use the equipment would camp for it. It would also reduce a big source of revenue for some players though.

The goal is to implement the right combination of anti-rmt ideas so as to reduce their influence on the games economy without actually changing the game. Reducing their presence, effect on economy, effect on availability of items/materials, while keeping the original idea of the game intact would be perfect. Too bad we don't live in a perfect world.


I think SE knows of the bot problem by now. The problem is they can't do anything about it this late in FFXI's lifespan. The resources for updates alone is at an all-time low based on content. However, FFXIV has the potential to rid us of the RMT plague, more or less. You'll never kill them 100%, but look at FFXI now. Besides the RMT /tells, the RMT are a joke compared to years ago. Bots will lose their effectiveness if SE is smart about the claim system this time around. Instanced is the way to go to prevent abuse. My main gripe of FFXI is the game currency is controlled by the RMT's and HNM botting LS's. Now only the later is truly a problem. RMT's will be phased out next month with the /chat filter.
#28 Oct 05 2009 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Unless the economy is player driven, in which case inflation causes currency to be worthless in the amounts that you can "easily" find it.
Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it.


Back in the day RMT made most of it's Gil farming or selling random crap to NPCs. They farmed **** that, a normal player would be more hesitant to do themselves, with bots and a lot more man power. It's a job for them and a game for the rest of us.

The idea of a player driven economy has never existed because of these items that most normal players would rarely get themselves. I'm talking consumables here. NM drops is just another part of it.

Think Tree Cuttings, Manticore Hair and Hides or items you get from HELM. Most of these things are a pain in the *** to come by.

If ten people kill the same mob and only one gets items on top of long spawn times chances are those items are gonna be worth more than they should be. Then you have a hoard of characters that are on 24/7 and probably bots reaping the rewards.

In other games most consumables are easy to come by. People farm them and sell them, the currency rotates from player to player. RMT are not players.

Quote:
They were trying to keep the market from becoming saturated with that particular item. As for it not making sense, that's debatable. I'd imagine there are few pieces of usable hides left on a monster after a party of 6 has spent the last minute slicing it up and setting it on fire.


The question is why? It's a monster and it should have skin, bones and meat. Also it doesn't make sense. I get more skins killing small little rabbits outside of town than I do killing a massive beast. If anything the bigger one should drop more things right?

Point of all this rambling is simple, it's Squares design, RMT just exploit it. If you don't want RMT then make the items more accessible so that the common player can either farm them or sell them to the person that needs them. Drop rates shouldn't vary so **** much.
#29 Oct 05 2009 at 5:12 PM Rating: Decent
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I was referring to what they could do with FFXIV. I just used FFXI as an example. I'm just hoping we don't see an over use of instances. Instances take a lot away from the game for me.

I hope they use some creative thinking and come up with some completely new ideas.
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