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Equipment Durability and Helping OutFollow

#1 Oct 01 2009 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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During my last few months playing FFXI, I was only able to spend 30 minutes to an hour online at a time, which pretty much ruled out all endgame content. So I spent most of my time fishing, chatting with my LS, or helping other players with AF, missions, papyrus, or whatever else they were shouting for in Lower Jeuno.

I usually had a great time helping out lower level players, but I'm not sure I would have felt the same way about things if it meant damaging my equipment.

Will you be less likely to answer shouts for help from lower level players in FFXIV if it means you will have to spend your own gil to repair weapons and armor damaged while helping strangers with quests, missions, item drops, etc?
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#2 Oct 01 2009 at 1:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nah, just use your junky beater equipment and save your best gear for when you really need it.
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#3 Oct 01 2009 at 1:44 PM Rating: Good
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I would expect mobs that are much lower than you will do next to no damage to your equipment. Helping lower players with stuff is always fun and I think you'll still be able to without worry.
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#4 Oct 01 2009 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm hoping that repairing equipment will be very cheap, and not come into consideration when helping people out.

For comparison purposes, if it cost 500g in FFXI to repair all my equipment I used after helping someone out for 3 hours, then I wouldn't really mind (especially considering that I would get item drops worth more than 500g while helping them). If it cost 5000g, then yeah I would think twice about helping people for free.
#5 Oct 01 2009 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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Item degradation will not deter me from helping out other players any more than exp loss did.
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#6 Oct 01 2009 at 3:46 PM Rating: Decent
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item degradation + exp loss = ???

more timesink farming for gil and exp... it will get worse if higher lvl gears need certain rare materials to repair lol

#7 Oct 01 2009 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
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It's very possible that I'll help out less if it will burden me that much more. But hopefully people won't be put in situations like they were with papyrus in XIV.
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#8 Oct 01 2009 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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Im hoping crafters will play a big support role so there would usually be one in the party, meaning it would probably just be polite and customary for them to repair your equipment after battle, provided it doesn't cost them any mats.
#9 Oct 02 2009 at 3:10 AM Rating: Decent
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akirussan wrote:


Will you be less likely to answer shouts for help from lower level players in FFXIV if it means you will have to spend your own gil to repair weapons and armor damaged while helping strangers with quests, missions, item drops, etc?


I'll start off my reply by predicting the Guildeves system will solve most of these issues. I'm expecting the FoVish system to encompass daily farming which would cover such costs. On top of that, I believe the durability of armor/items/weapons will become worn out faster only when you fight mobs of greater level/skill. If someone is asking you to tank on PLD for the Guildeves instanced version of a HNM like Faf, I could see your gear/items being compromised at a faster pace. However, SE plans to give rewards for helping out so that will be the incentive. Hopefully the rewards are better than 1k XP like for helping people do CoP.

I'm not really concerned about it yet. At the worst case scenario, we'll probably have those requiring help to either ask for a crafter to fix our gear or reimburse repair costs later. Again, I really think the Guildeves system will be entice people to help for other rewards so it doesn't matter IMO.
#10 Oct 02 2009 at 4:42 AM Rating: Good
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You know, if there was a situation with equipment durability, it'd only be reasonable to expect the person asking for help to pay for at least a part of the cost. Otherwise, its just leeching.
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#11 Oct 02 2009 at 6:25 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
You know, if there was a situation with equipment durability, it'd only be reasonable to expect the person asking for help to pay for at least a part of the cost. Otherwise, its just leeching.


I guess it depends on how the durability and repair system actually works.

One concern I have: Imagine we're a year into the game. There are a good amount of master blacksmiths and tailors and whatnot who have gained every ability available and maxed out their weapons/tools. Say a few of them start offering lowbie repairs for free. Now I have no incentive to go to the up-and-coming blacksmiths and such, because regardless of whether or not they want money, it's fair to assume that there will be some disadvantage to choosing them (higher chance of repair failing, less materials available to them while the masters are overstocked, etc.), or that it will at least be more convenient to just go to the masters.

I'd like to know how the system will be set up to prevent this from happening. "You'll just have to repair your own stuff" sounds like a crappy solution. I'm sure the developers are already giving this plenty of thought and will probably make sure the end result doesn't allow for this type of problem, so I think that while we're busy speculating, we should view ideas where this problem could arise as unlikely.
#12 Oct 02 2009 at 9:16 AM Rating: Good
akirussan wrote:
Will you be less likely to answer shouts for help from lower level players in FFXIV if it means you will have to spend your own gil to repair weapons and armor damaged while helping strangers with quests, missions, item drops, etc?

Since I'm probably going to have a LS/guild with a number of both RL friends and friends I've made in FFXI, I don't think gear repair is going to be an issue for me. My plan is for us to barter our services with each other. For example, I plan on doing fishing and cooking; I would trade food to a blacksmith for armor repair, or to a tailor for cosmetic enhancements.

Besides, helping out a lower level player might be a good way to recruit them into my LS.
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#13 Oct 02 2009 at 9:51 AM Rating: Decent
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People used to complain about having to sub or main /nin and help people when the costs of shehei was high.

That's pretty much gone isn't it?

I'm already skeptical about this durability issue as is, so let's just say I'm hoping:

A). equipment won't degrade as fast as SE seems to be saying it will right now

B). NPCs will be able to repair gear for a cost and not just players

C). players won't be greedy and abuse the system (hmmm....)

D). "Replacement" gear will be plentiful.

It would be TERRIBLE if with the way durability worked, you didn't want to USE OR WEAR your best gear. Defeats the entire point of having it in the first place, which is why if SE makes a wrong step on this issue, I think it could end up being the step that makes them fall off the cliff.
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#14 Oct 02 2009 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
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C). players won't be greedy and abuse the system (hmmm....)


I think that will depend on your definition of greedy. It's almost definitely going to be a supply/demand economy, and crafters will almost definitely charge for their services. For a lot of crafters, that's the POINT of crafting anyway, and not expecting them to charge their rate would be like expecting you to not lot on drops.

The draw of crafting for me was making money, just like many people fight monsters to get drops. If it wasn't worth my while, I wouldn't have done it, so I charged enough to make it worth my while. Not like you had to use my services if you didn't want to, because if my rates were so unreasonable, you could always just level the craft yourself.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#15 Oct 02 2009 at 10:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
B). NPCs will be able to repair gear for a cost and not just players

C). players won't be greedy and abuse the system (hmmm....)


Quote:
not expecting them to charge their rate would be like expecting you to not lot on drops.


I should have implied stronger that i think C is ENTIRELY dependent on the reality of B. Of course I expect a supply and demand, and to pay for a service even if it's to a player, but the problem comes for C if B doesn't exist.

If NPCs cannot repair, and players are the only method, then there is no way to control how much a player should charge other than their cost + their fee. Obviously, this NEEDS to be cheaper than it costs for an NPC to do it, or there's no reason to have a player do it.

If the cost for even a player to repair gear is too high (such as the supply becomes limited due to difficulty), then the demand will go up, and gouging begins.

Like I said... its a fine line. Obviously you tip a whm to tele you as a favor, and you would tip the blacksmith who repairs your gear. But if SE places the entire market in the hands of the players, and then doesn't give them a viable method to support it, then the system will fail and the market goes kablooey.

Take what I say with a grain of salt, but like I said, I'm worried about the potential of failure in the system, and you cannot rule out human greed as a possible cause.
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