Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

XIV Site UpdateFollow

#52 Oct 08 2009 at 12:17 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
334 posts
As to the question about the CODEX LOST information. Going along with the theme of having DEEP content is the addition of a monster codex,

Take this similar to.... who was it? Gwynham and Enid Ironheart? ( father and daughter ) that made the basis for almost all the maps in today's XI culture.

The codex of monsters is written by Frandelont Raimdelle who was a Naturalist and theologian. It may play a deeper role later or at least for now just be giving us a sense of how knowledge on the monsters came to pass.

Also spread patchy through the entire website are quotes from various explorers and people of notation. I really like that aspect of how they are handling XIV. Its like having an active vanadiel tribune.


EDIT: I dont like how I write sometimes ._.;;

Edited, Oct 8th 2009 4:18pm by bleystrife
____________________________
And all this just to say you hate me? Why thank you :)
#53 Oct 08 2009 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
31 posts
Did anyone else notice that there are male and female versions of the antelope and aldgoats?!

I find this very interesting. I made a post in another thread a while ago about wanting more advanced AI in this game and just about the mob interaction I wanted to see. It would be interesting if the male and females behaved differently or if you need to leave a certain amount of them alive for repawns to occur.

And if you notice in the picture of the Raptor, it seems to be hunting that little fox mob. I'd love to see an in game food chain and how it would effect players.
#54 Oct 08 2009 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
**
394 posts
Veidt wrote:
And if you notice in the picture of the Raptor, it seems to be hunting that little fox mob. I'd love to see an in game food chain and how it would effect players.


I believe this sort of thing was supposed to be in FFXI but was cut due to PS2 limitations. IIRC, one of the early trailers showed a Goobue eating a Mandragora. Of course this did carry into XII, so I wouldn't be surprised to see this in XIV.
#55 Oct 08 2009 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
3,564 posts
What's the address the email is being sent from? I signed up for the newsletter ages ago, but my netscape mail uses AOL servers and AOL is notorious for eating emails. I haven't received a single thing and I figure making a filter for their address might help... or not, but whatever. If all else fails I suppose I can go sign up with a different service specifically for the newsletter.
____________________________
FFXI (Retired)
Naiya | Mithra | Windurst | Rank 10 | 1st Lieutenant | Ragnarok
WAR: 75 MNK: 75 SAM: 66
RotZ: O | CoP: O | ToAU: O | Apoch Nigh: O

WoW
Naiyah | B.Elf | 85 Rogue | Stormscale
Doubleday | B.Elf | 85 Paladin | Stormscale


#56 Oct 08 2009 at 2:52 PM Rating: Decent
22 posts
Could we see sub-classes (specialities) in some disciplines ?

In Smithing, they talk of gunsmithing, mention herbalism in Alchemist, etc ...

Also, I think it's great that you can upgrade your crafting tools like the Culinarian example of knife and skillet.

Edited, Oct 8th 2009 6:53pm by ChinookFFXIV
____________________________
RIP
Chinook
2004-2006
Ifrit server
Mithra THF75 BLM75 RDM75

FFXIV linkshell:
www.curraheels.com

#57 Oct 08 2009 at 3:19 PM Rating: Excellent
*
81 posts
Quote:
What's the address the email is being sent from? I signed up for the newsletter ages ago, but my netscape mail uses AOL servers and AOL is notorious for eating emails. I haven't received a single thing and I figure making a filter for their address might help... or not, but whatever. If all else fails I suppose I can go sign up with a different service specifically for the newsletter.


The E-mail address is "square-enix@orbit.sqexmail.com"
____________________________

#58 Oct 08 2009 at 3:35 PM Rating: Good
**
736 posts
Quote:
The odd thing is, this is something that generally didn't worry people a whole lot, and what's funny is not only the enormous amount of people who have wanted Male Mithra/Miqo'te for so long, but almost everyone has wanted at least one new race to be added, for a feel of originality.

On the other end of the spectrum, we see some mobs that are being showcased, that look very similar to the ones we've seen for so long in FFXI. What is your biggest majority of time spent on in a MMORPG? That's right, killing monsters.


Speak for yourself, you big brute ;p
There's quite a few of us out here planning the crafter/gatherer route.
Seriously, though, I wonder how long it's going to take for the eclectic concept of non-combat jobs to really settle in? I know I still think of things in combat-centric terms too.

But to explain the seeming inconsistency in my mindset. I really do only think 2 of the 10 are what I'd call rehashes. Frankly, I'd be overjoyed if the races followed such an example. I think the rehashes are more acceptable in the enemies because the percentage of new design outweighs the percentage of old design. It's a trend I'm cautiously optimistic will continue.

Even though I'm willing to give it a pass, I can see how an oldbie would be sick to death of raptors.



Edited, Oct 8th 2009 8:53pm by Zemzelette
#59 Oct 08 2009 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
3,564 posts
KierraXIV wrote:
Quote:
What's the address the email is being sent from? I signed up for the newsletter ages ago, but my netscape mail uses AOL servers and AOL is notorious for eating emails. I haven't received a single thing and I figure making a filter for their address might help... or not, but whatever. If all else fails I suppose I can go sign up with a different service specifically for the newsletter.


The E-mail address is "square-enix@orbit.sqexmail.com"


Ah thanks.
____________________________
FFXI (Retired)
Naiya | Mithra | Windurst | Rank 10 | 1st Lieutenant | Ragnarok
WAR: 75 MNK: 75 SAM: 66
RotZ: O | CoP: O | ToAU: O | Apoch Nigh: O

WoW
Naiyah | B.Elf | 85 Rogue | Stormscale
Doubleday | B.Elf | 85 Paladin | Stormscale


#60 Oct 08 2009 at 6:32 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Quote:
I believe this sort of thing was supposed to be in FFXI but was cut due to PS2 limitations. IIRC, one of the early trailers showed a Goobue eating a Mandragora. Of course this did carry into XII, so I wouldn't be surprised to see this in XIV.


My understanding was that a big reason for nixing it was that there weren't enough mobs for xp parties because too many of them were getting eaten. I mean, imagine trying to xp outside of Kazham early in the game's life if the mandies were being eaten by something.

Quote:
But to explain the seeming inconsistency in my mindset. I really do only think 2 of the 10 are what I'd call rehashes.


I agree, but the Puk redesign is borderline (the head being the most noticeably different thing), and I'm just not that impressed with additions like Antelope and Aldgoat. I mean come on-- when you redesign a fictional creature so that it's borderline rehash, sure, I'll give it a pass. But when you redesign real life animals, and don't even muster the creativity to give them a fictitious-sounding name, that pushes it for me. But it's not like it's anything new. That's like half the mobs in XI. Not a trend I'm anxious to see continued.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#61 Oct 09 2009 at 1:50 AM Rating: Good
**
817 posts
puk are thin insect-dragon flying creatures in 11, here they're basically a gekko with wings, if you think only the head is different you need glasses...

about others monsters, se said they wanted a "more realist" world, so i guess it's why lalafells are less sd and why "cartoon" mobs probably won't show up
#62 Oct 09 2009 at 5:34 AM Rating: Good
**
394 posts
I'm still laughing at 20 gil being a "reasonable price" for 3 mithkabobs.
#63 Oct 09 2009 at 5:40 AM Rating: Good
41 posts
DarkBiBi wrote:
about others monsters, se said they wanted a "more realist" world, so i guess it's why lalafells are less sd and why "cartoon" mobs probably won't show up


Praise Jenova!!!
____________________________
Carpe Noctem!! :)
#64 Oct 09 2009 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
442 posts
Kachi wrote:


I agree, but the Puk redesign is borderline (the head being the most noticeably different thing), and I'm just not that impressed with additions like Antelope and Aldgoat. I mean come on-- when you redesign a fictional creature so that it's borderline rehash, sure, I'll give it a pass. But when you redesign real life animals, and don't even muster the creativity to give them a fictitious-sounding name, that pushes it for me. But it's not like it's anything new. That's like half the mobs in XI. Not a trend I'm anxious to see continued.


Kachi, I'm assuming FFXI was your first MMORPG?
#65 Oct 09 2009 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
***
2,614 posts
I like to see a few FFXI mobs return. Of course the whole bestiary shouldn't be made up of them, but I'm all for bringing back some of the more interesting designs.

Goobbues, Mandragoras, Giant Rams -- I wouldn't mind seeing any of them return. Raptors are kind of neat too.

The rehashes are just a tiny part of the list so far. I imagine that's the way it will stay.
#66 Oct 09 2009 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
41 posts
In case anyone hasn’t seen them yet, here are some better scans from the famitsu magazine –
http://www.ff14site.com/media/images/magazine-scans/weekly-famitsu/big/18.jpg

And another which shows some of the culinarian meals… and Cookies!!! -
http://www.ff14site.com/media/images/magazine-scans/weekly-famitsu/big/20.jpg

____________________________
Carpe Noctem!! :)
#67 Oct 09 2009 at 10:08 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
25 posts
I want to see Thieves in FFXIV. In any FF I play, I focus most heavily on the Thief character. For me Thief, is the most interesting role to play, but that's probably because I love seeking items and building up Gil. Plus I loved the unqiue battle style of THF in FFXI. Had a hard time finding parties but, it was easier after joining a good LS.
____________________________
The thief is sorry he is to be hanged, not that he is a thief.
#68 Oct 09 2009 at 10:35 AM Rating: Decent
KierraXIV wrote:
The skilled culinarian is also able to simply throw in all the ingredients--perhaps earlier each ingredient required preparation. A named stand is mentioned, and at the end of the story, it was revealed the stand was run by a player.

No, it does not specifically say that. All the page says is that the Miqo'te that bought the three kabobs was the same one that the chef bought the meat from. It doesn't specify whether or not the Miqo'te was PC or NPC.
____________________________
FFXI-Garuda 2003-2009; Lakshmi 2011-8/20/13 (retired)
FFXIV: ARR - Ghost Bear, Balmung server
#69 Oct 09 2009 at 11:45 AM Rating: Default
**
441 posts
lmao when i was checking disciples of the hand and saw tanner first thought that came to mind was build up skills sun bathing xD.
#70 Oct 09 2009 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
41 posts
Ralrra wrote:
No, it does not specifically say that. All the page says is that the Miqo'te that bought the three kabobs was the same one that the chef bought the meat from. It doesn't specify whether or not the Miqo'te was PC or NPC.


It doesn't come right out and say "Hey! She bought it from another player!" but it's pretty safe to make that assumption.

She even manages to haggle the proprieto down five gil
I doubt you'll be able to barter with NPCs, and I’m also pretty sure that NPC characters won't close up shop, and parade around with other lancers at “Camp Bloodshore”.

All things considered...
I think she bought and sold them back to another player.



____________________________
Carpe Noctem!! :)
#71 Oct 09 2009 at 7:04 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Quote:
Kachi, I'm assuming FFXI was your first MMORPG?


I wouldn't exactly argue that just because other MMOs unapologetically use real-life animals as enemy models that FFXI/XIV should continue the trend, ESPECIALLY considering that SE has a bestiary of THOUNSANDS of monsters that they have access to, many of which have little to no semblance to real life animals.

No, btw.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#72 Oct 10 2009 at 1:06 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
224 posts
Ralrra the Flatulent wrote:

Quote:
KierraXIV wrote:
Quote:
The skilled culinarian is also able to simply throw in all the ingredients--perhaps earlier each ingredient required preparation. A named stand is mentioned, and at the end of the story, it was revealed the stand was run by a player.


No, it does not specifically say that. All the page says is that the Miqo'te that bought the three kabobs was the same one that the chef bought the meat from. It doesn't specify whether or not the Miqo'te was PC or NPC.


It says that the Miqo'te is a lancer and that it's the same character that the cook got the meat from. The facts that the Miqo'te is a lancer, it's in two differant locations at two differant times, or that it can buy as well as sell, do not garuntee whether the character is either PC or NPC. It's just a pretty safe guess.

Usually NPCs that move don't buy or sell things and vice versa. It would be pretty annoying to go to the place you found a specific NPC vendor and realise that walks around and you have to either wait for it or go find it, potentially missing it again. Usually NPCs don't come and find you when you have something for sale that they want, as the scenario states that the Miqo'te approached the cook. Usually NPC vendors will not negotiate price, although they do in games like Oblivion. Usually if a player crafts something they would want to sell it for a price above what a vendor would give them for it.

But no it doesn't specifically say that the Miqo'te is a player.
Sorry, now where was I.. right

It would be interesting indeed if players could and/or had to rent/buy as stand/shop to set up a bazaar. Maybe SEs attempts to limit the number of bazaars lagging up main cities?


I was hoping they would fill in some of the "comming soon" areas but I'm pleased with what we got. Lots of interesting things for us to argue/speculate about and then toss wildy out of proportion.

Crafting seems like the most interesting part so far but it should be. So far it's about the only completely remade aspect of the game besides using crystals but pfft... it doesn't bother me. Sounds like you'll actually be able to tell through physical results when you're skilling up instead of randomly getting a HQ when 10 skill levels above the required level to make something. Also equipment effecting results, beyond blacksmithing skill +1 gloves etc, sounds fun. Maybe some leves will drop some crazy rare crafting gear that adventurers can sell back to the crafters to get some of the money they spend on repairs back.

Lots to ponder. :D
#73 Oct 10 2009 at 4:10 AM Rating: Decent
**
817 posts
for the pc/npc argument, it could as well be : ah-like shop > underbid by 4 gils > look who sold it :x

but another thing is the less than good meat thing, can craftables scale in quality and give different results ?
#74 Oct 10 2009 at 5:45 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
442 posts
Kachi wrote:
Quote:
Kachi, I'm assuming FFXI was your first MMORPG?


I wouldn't exactly argue that just because other MMOs unapologetically use real-life animals as enemy models that FFXI/XIV should continue the trend, ESPECIALLY considering that SE has a bestiary of THOUNSANDS of monsters that they have access to, many of which have little to no semblance to real life animals.

No, btw.


Then stop acting like it's unheard of to use real life animals, especially when there's a potential for something as a 'breeding' system. Also, Square doesn't have access to as many monsters as you'd think, I know you were exaggerating, but most of the monsters are reskins of a previous monster, which btw quite a bit are just mutated "real world" animals, with the exception of obvious monster types, quite of bit of their bestiary are actually based on real world animals and just mutated into monsters.

Also, other MMOs gives you quests where you have to kill 'x amount' of enemies, and FFXIV does it...again, don't act like FFXIV has to be some uber different MMO that they won't even have the basics of MMORPG life.

It's just kind of sad that one of the least things to nitpick/complain about in an RPG..is being looked down on.



Edited, Oct 10th 2009 1:32pm by Razaroic
#75 Oct 10 2009 at 5:28 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Quote:
Then stop acting like it's unheard of to use real life animals, especially when there's a potential for something as a 'breeding' system. Also, Square doesn't have access to as many monsters as you'd think, I know you were exaggerating, but most of the monsters are reskins of a previous monster, which btw quite a bit are just mutated "real world" animals, with the exception of obvious monster types, quite of bit of their bestiary are actually based on real world animals and just mutated into monsters.

Also, other MMOs gives you quests where you have to kill 'x amount' of enemies, and FFXIV does it...again, don't act like FFXIV has to be some uber different MMO that they won't even have the basics of MMORPG life.

It's just kind of sad that one of the least things to nitpick/complain about in an RPG..is being looked down on.


Uh, no. Is FFXI your first SE game?

Square. Enix. Sound it out if you need to. Cumulatively they've made HUNDREDS of games, many of which have HUNDREDS of enemies. I was not exaggerating. If you compile all of the bestiaries among all of their games, there are literally thousands of monsters. Now some of them are reskins and redesigns, or too world-specific, or too generic (like "Soldiers") but they have at the very least several hundred viable designs to choose from even if they were to opt not to get creative.

And what's more, that has always been part of what's characterized their games. Most people went and picked up XI -because- it had the Final Fantasy title, and they were expecting some consistency to the feel (which many didn't find).

So no, it's not the same as when your average MMO does it.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#76 Oct 10 2009 at 7:22 PM Rating: Good
*
81 posts
I guess I'll throw my two gil in with regards to the "normal" mobs. I'm pretty excited about mobs that aren't as fanciful as a raptor or ogre; it adds a sense of realism to the world that makes it seem that much more alive. Simple things such as watching a group of antelope run across a field creates an organic feel to the game that the devs are hoping will immerse the players moreso than any cactuar could.

A good number of people have pointed out that some mobs are recycled or seem unoriginal, but it seems to me that they aren't simply saying "let's go with the popular/easy models" so much as "what lives here?" and running from there. Eorzea already looks alive to me; the devs are living up to their promise of a "high fantasy."

I'm sorry if this post doesn't make any sense; I'm taking some medicine for an injury that is clouding my thoughts. ~.~
____________________________

#77 Oct 10 2009 at 7:38 PM Rating: Excellent
**
736 posts
How can you possibly make that assertion if you don't know much about the environments?
Especially to the level of say; a Blue raptor is obviously much more appropriate than a Red one?

Look, they have a pretty obvious reason to recycle. They aren't being coy about it, that's for sure.

I may chastise the negative view of things to the tune of this, but it's just as true for the positive spin as well:
Let's not make this out to be more than it actually is.


Edited, Oct 10th 2009 11:41pm by Zemzelette
#78 Oct 10 2009 at 8:32 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Hey, if a blue and white zebra striped raptor fits into the environment, that'll be just great. I'm a little skeptical of that though, given hunters usually blend in with their environments, and cold-blooded raptors probably won't live in a tundra.

I'm just saying, they could have easily used something antelope-like, without making it something that looks almost exactly like an antelope and is called "antelope."
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#79 Oct 11 2009 at 5:47 AM Rating: Decent
42 posts
dude kachi, what do you want? a rabbit with a horn as an antelope? but again you will complain that its actually a rabbit i guess
#80 Oct 11 2009 at 7:12 AM Rating: Excellent
**
340 posts
Because the menagerie of animals in FFXI was such an exotic mix of fantastic beasts.

Like Hares, Crabs, Sheep, Bees, Wasps, Birds, Beetles, Spiders, Fish, Tigers, and Giraffes Dhalmels.

There is an underlying rule in fantasy fiction concerning immersion. It is that no fantasy world completely without grounding in the real world can create a plausible sense of suspension of disbelief.

Quote:
Hey, if a blue and white zebra striped raptor fits into the environment, that'll be just great. I'm a little skeptical of that though, given hunters usually blend in with their environments, and cold-blooded raptors probably won't live in a tundra.


Normally I wouldn't argue with this, but reread the codex entry for the Raptor. It states that it's method of hunting requires distraction and luring. Camouflage would actually be detrimental, as the listing states that they hunt "in holts and copses"- in the woods- and that one will lure the prey in a chase to exhaust the quarry, when the partner will ambush the fatigued quarry. Therefore, in order to keep the prey's attention on the lure, it must be visible at all times, even while obscured by tree and shrubbery. Meanwhile, while holding absolutely still, behind low shrubbery to break the stripe pattern up, it's markings might appear to some as shadows on a large whitish object (such as a rock, or birch), as diffuse daytime shadows in sunny weather are often bluish in hue, and it's white body is likely to pick up the reflective light sources of whatever it is near (remember: scales).

Also, consider the zebra. When in tall grass, it's stripes render it nigh invisible to a lion in the distance because the lion is colorblind. Perhaps it's usual prey is colorblind. Given the information on it's hunting habits, however, it's usual prey is probably something that is territorial and large enough (or in a group large enough) to respond to predation by attempting to chase the predator away- not whatever the unfortunate furry thing that strayed into it's line of sight is. It makes some threats, gets their attention, and runs. The prey (possibly an alpha male) attempts to chase the Raptor away, while the raptor lures him out of the range of his herd and right into his partner's ambush.

[EDIT:] Almost forgot I was going to mention naming. There is also a tradition in some fantasy works (dating back, I THINK to The Hobbit) where the text of the world has been translated into the language we are reading for the sake of us readers. Sometimes it is noted in the text, other times it is assumed. What that means, is since there is no "English" in many fantasy settings, the use of "Common Speech" is then used as a substitute for whatever language the work is published in. This is because the reader is assumed to be reading in a language that is "common" to them. So in that spirit, since it looks like an antelope, even if the word for it in the fantasy setting might be something different, in the "translation" for the sake of the readers, the word antelope is used.

Edited, Oct 11th 2009 11:26am by CrownDefender
#81Kachi, Posted: Oct 11 2009 at 7:43 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) WAAAAAAAAH!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!
#82 Oct 11 2009 at 8:35 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
442 posts
Kachi wrote:

Uh, no. Is FFXI your first SE game?


Nope, my first Square game was Rad Racer, but first RPG game from them was Final Fantasy. This is why I say it's kinda fruitless to nitpick about using real world designs when a lot of the enemies from even FFI through FFX-2 were clearly inspired by real world animals. Also let's not forget the human like enemies spotted throughout some of games..did you complain/nitpick about Fomors/Shades/Shadows in FFXI looking like player characters?

As much as I'm sure you want some fantasy monster that doesn't exist anywhere, it's not uncommon for "real world" animals to be thrown into fantasy. Can you name 20 fantasy titles whether game or fiction that doesn't include at least one real world animal?

Fyi, compiling the bestiaries you can clearly see that (even moreso) in the amano era (sprite based FFs) there's a ton of unique ones, but most are reskins or small redesigns of previous ones, this is how they become main stays, because they appear in each game, e.g Cactaur, Bomb and Goblins. So I say exaggerating because you're obviously counting the reskins (i.e palette swaps) because throughout a FF game, you run into reskins more than you do unique ones and adding the monsters from FFI-FFX-2 yeah there's a lot...and the majority are palette swaps or obvious redesigns.

What's funny is, FFXI is littered with as you say "consistency" to the Final Fantasy universe:

The Jobs
The Backstory
The Main storyline
The types of characters
The Magic
The world design
The grind lifestyle
The weapons/items/armors

The ones who will nitpick a game down to it's use of a real world animal will of course find inconsistencies because you tear apart every aspect of the game TO find them.
#83 Oct 11 2009 at 9:11 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Your arguments are getting awfully trite.

Quote:
As much as I'm sure you want some fantasy monster that doesn't exist anywhere, it's not uncommon for "real world" animals to be thrown into fantasy. Can you name 20 fantasy titles whether game or fiction that doesn't include at least one real world animal?


I never said it was uncommon. And you want 20? lol I might struggle to find one depending on your standards. But there's a big difference between throwing in a few and having them be incredibly pervasive, accounting for nearly half the mobs. Let's try to avoid making me point out the obvious. And for your part, you can avoid pointing out the obvious, too. Honestly, that kind of argument is so obvious that it's insulting to my intelligence that you felt the need to point it out.

Quote:
Fyi, compiling the bestiaries you can clearly see that (even moreso) in the amano era (sprite based FFs) there's a ton of unique ones, but most are reskins or small redesigns of previous ones, this is how they become main stays, because they appear in each game, e.g Cactaur, Bomb and Goblins. So I say exaggerating because you're obviously counting the reskins (i.e palette swaps) because throughout a FF game, you run into reskins more than you do unique ones and adding the monsters from FFI-FFX-2 yeah there's a lot...and the majority are palette swaps or obvious redesigns.


SQUARE. ENIX. I pointed this out before. I did not say "Final Fantasy." If you know as much as you seem to then I shouldn't need to point out that Final Fantasy titles compose less than half of Square's library, many of which have spiritually similar or otherwise adaptable enemies to use. And then there's Enix's library. Now do I want to see Dragon Quest Slimes in FFXIV? Hardly. But I would like to see some evidence that they're at least trying to be creative.

Just for kicks I flipped through the FF9 Bestiary earlier and saw dozens of unique mobs that hadn't been used, and yes, there were many redesigns (very few reskins). But you know, it was very rare that the redesigns weren't SO redesigned that the only thing they really shared with monsters from prior titles were the names. They could easily just change the name and treat it like an entirely different monster.

So no, I'm not exaggerating at all. You're just going to have to concede me on this point.

Quote:
What's funny is, FFXI is littered with as you say "consistency" to the Final Fantasy universe:


You're reaching on a few of those. Don't be the opposite of what you're accusing me of-- the guy who tears apart the game to find the consistencies once he's listed the handful of superficially obvious ones. But in general it's kind of laughable that you're trying to take my argument about monster design and extrapolate it to my criticisms of other aspects of XI. Most of my criticisms have absolutely nothing to do with consistency, so I don't get what any of that has to do with my argument. I mean, I do, but it's a non sequitur.

Look, bottom line is don't downplay the importance of monster design. You're trying to pass it off like it's no big deal, I'm making something out of nothing. If you stop and think about it, it's daft to ignore the importance of monsters. They are in many ways the crux of the game. What do you spend all of your time fighting? What brings the environments to life?
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#84 Oct 11 2009 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
**
340 posts
I wasn't pointing that out at you specifically, take it easy. However, if you really think that the level of realism in the design of FFXI (let alone XIV) is comparable to the realism in design of FFIX, you should maybe look at Queen Brahne again. FFIX was actually lampooned by some critics at the time because of it's sudden departure from the realism of FFVIII's design. It's clear that they are trying to create in XIV is a world of deep immersion, evidenced by the realism that their human-based race is depicted with, and the lack of deviation from the human mold that the other races utilize. By your logic, why not give Elezen blue skin, Roegadyn four arms, and Miqo'te an actual cat's face rather than a human one with cat ears? These would be perfectly fine in a fantasy setting, but not in line with their artistic direction.

What they seem to want to do (as with XI, despite it's limitations) is to realize a highly realistic realm with just enough realism that when they throw you a fantasy beast, it's even more effective. When you have an orc surrounded by hydra, a dragon, an animated jelly, and a giant tentacle plant with teeth and a case of halitosis, he becomes just becomes one of the gang. However, when surrounded by hares and sheep, when you see an orc, suddenly he seems more fantastical. It's a matter of contrast. However, it WOULD be very bland if the mundane WERE exactly as they appeared in real life. Hence rabbits have only two legs, big owl eyes, long tails, and a horn in their back.

When designing an offline RPG, often the monsters serve as no more than EXP/loot vending fodder. Their designs need no grounding in reality at all. Look at the Dragon Warrior series. Some of the monster designs are completely ridiculous and exist simply because they have funny names. Note that as the FF series went in a more integrated world map/battle area direction, suddenly you have creatures that now need to look like they belong in the areas you find them in. They want the world to feel like a living, breathing, biological possibility, which does require much more suspension of disbelief than, "in this world, floating eyeballs with tiny bat wings are completely normal." I do have to admit I find it curious that you champion the use of fantastic, unbelievable creatures, then criticize the coloration of a dinosaur monster based on the reality that "hunters usually blend in with their environments, and cold-blooded raptors probably won't live in a tundra."

You specifically accuse SE of "phoning it in," when in reality, they are pursuing one of a myriad of perfectly valid and justifiable artistic fantasy directions. It's just that it doesn't mesh with your personal taste. That's fine. If you'd rather have ahriman and slimes and six legged cats with lizard tails be the equivalent of birds and frogs and squirrels and other everyday fauna, there's nothing wrong with that approach either. I just think it's unfair to label the design as lazy- not to mention baseless, since anyone playing devil's advocate could argue that it's even lazier to just grab a Yan from FFIX and throw it in XIV for consistency's sake.

[EDIT:] Kachi, you made several good points while I posted this. I think that if the bestiary consisted of only the monsters on the website in the final version of the game, you could complain. Or if the ratio of real life to fantasy inspired creatures is similar, at the very least. But the main reason I pointed out all the XI "real life animals" is to illustrate that in the end, they make up a very small percentage of the mob types in the game. The only reason it was so bad in XI was that we ended choosing those mobs to level on for ages, and ended up beating up the same blue crab for years, until the pink parrots came.

Edited, Oct 11th 2009 1:22pm by CrownDefender
#85 Oct 11 2009 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
**
736 posts
Quote:
You specifically accuse SE of "phoning it in"


Actually, that was me. :x
#86Kachi, Posted: Oct 12 2009 at 4:42 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) @CrownDefender, My observation about the monsters in IX was exempting stylistic differences. For example, you can look at the recently released Dissidia to see how the various artistic styles have been reversioned into a more realistic and consistent vision. Zidane, an originally superdeformed character, suddenly sits along sides the likes of Cloud and Squall. Naturally as I looked through the bestiary for IX, I did so while envisioning what the monsters would look like if created to look more realistic. Even these "cartoony" characters would frequently look very different just because their designs are actually completely different, only sharing the name.
#87 Oct 12 2009 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
**
621 posts
Excellent new song by Uematsu!
____________________________
Kweh?!

...prophesizing the golden patch since october 2010.
#88 Oct 12 2009 at 3:40 PM Rating: Decent
*
73 posts
KierraXIV wrote:
I guess I'll throw my two gil in with regards to the "normal" mobs. I'm pretty excited about mobs that aren't as fanciful as a raptor or ogre; it adds a sense of realism to the world that makes it seem that much more alive. Simple things such as watching a group of antelope run across a field creates an organic feel to the game that the devs are hoping will immerse the players moreso than any cactuar could.

A good number of people have pointed out that some mobs are recycled or seem unoriginal, but it seems to me that they aren't simply saying "let's go with the popular/easy models" so much as "what lives here?" and running from there. Eorzea already looks alive to me; the devs are living up to their promise of a "high fantasy."

I'm sorry if this post doesn't make any sense; I'm taking some medicine for an injury that is clouding my thoughts. ~.~


I agree with this. I think seeing some antelope running around in the woods gives the game atmosphere, and why not base some mobs of real life animals? What's it hurting?
____________________________
Allysin-Fenrir Server
#89 Oct 12 2009 at 4:04 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
I'll express again that there's a difference between:

"Hey, we should have some graceful antelope-like creatures in this zone."

and

"Hey, let's make a blue antelope."

I also love the new music. It reaffirms my anticipation for having Uematsu back on the score. On that note, wow, there are a lot of good renditions of classic Uematsu works on the Dissidia soundtrack. I think I'll have to get that.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#90 Oct 13 2009 at 9:17 AM Rating: Decent
**
340 posts
Quote:
My observation about the monsters in IX was exempting stylistic differences.
I understood that. And as an example you gave us a Yan. Small, two horned, sheep-ish creature with massive doe/anime eyes. In FFXI we have large sheep, similar color, two horns, shaggy, yet nothing like real sheep. In fact, they actually resemble an auroch more than any living sheep species.

I'm still confused as to why you seem to think realistic (as in grounded in reality, not high poly-count, detailed renders) creatures have absolutely NO place in any fantasy setting. You seem stuck in some mindset like, "Its fantasy dammit, flying, blue, eight legged puppies with tentacles for all!" I never said you CANNOT do fantasy that way. I never said you cannot do REALISTIC fantasy that way. I can definitely see why you would want to see a really nontraditional, unrealistic fantasy setting in an MMO. I think it would be very cool to have an ecology based entirely around fantasy monsters. I only said that you CAN make a fantasy setting with real world elements- and its STILL fantasy. Why is it you cannot make this concession?

Quote:
Infer from that what I would say of the rest of your post.

"Whatever. My way is better."
#91 Oct 13 2009 at 9:46 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Quote:
Infer from that what I would say of the rest of your post.

Which part? This one?:
Quote:
HAY LOOK AT ME 凸(●´―`●)凸


Nah, seriously now. He's got a point as there is no compelling reason to put in any of our fauna into a fantasy game. However, this would imply we have to change the hyuran models just as well to be consistent. Do we really want to do that?
#92 Oct 13 2009 at 9:57 AM Rating: Excellent
*
81 posts
I think it's a testament to the art team's skill at blending real and fantasy creatures so well that some are unable to distinguish between the two when they are in fact very different:
http://tinypic.com/r/2lnfl14/4

Nearly everything is altered and yet, at first glance, they appear to be the same. I was also surprised at first to see something so similar to a real antelope until I looked a little closer and realized they're nothing alike.
____________________________

#93 Oct 13 2009 at 10:07 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
And I shamefully have to admit that, apart from the coloring, the SE antelope by far more fits my image of an antelope than the real one.
#94 Oct 13 2009 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
******
48,703 posts
KierraXIV wrote:
Nearly everything is altered and yet, at first glance, they appear to be the same.
Sure, if you have no idea what an antelope looks like.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#95 Oct 13 2009 at 10:39 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,614 posts
The game's antelope doesn't look anything like the animal I know by that name, but it turns out it's a pretty general term for a lot of different ungulates. This African species is pretty close to what's in FFXIV.

I still don't have a problem with it.
#96 Oct 13 2009 at 11:55 AM Rating: Good
*
81 posts
Quote:
The game's antelope doesn't look anything like the animal I know by that name, but it turns out it's a pretty general term for a lot of different ungulates. This African species is pretty close to what's in FFXIV.

I still don't have a problem with it.


That's pretty interesting. It's still very different, but that does look like a better comparison than my picture. Since "antelope" is indeed a general term, we really can't complain about a fantastic creature that fits within the category of "antelope."

From Wiki: "Antelope is a term referring to many even-toed ungulate species found in the family Bovidae. The term does not refer to a monophyletic group, as not all members of Bovidae are considered antelope. Instead, the term refers to a ‘miscellaneous’ group within the family encompassing the species which are not cattle, sheep, buffalo, bison, or goats."
____________________________

#97 Oct 13 2009 at 12:04 PM Rating: Good
1 post
I wonder if FFXIV will recycle beasts as much as FFXI does... I mean.. killing the same type of non-changing monster all the way from 1 to 75 (like all those colibris!) kinda sux. I hope they don't as much in the new one...

Cant wait !
#98 Oct 13 2009 at 1:24 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,614 posts
That reminds me...

KierraXIV wrote:
I guess I'll throw my two gil in with regards to the "normal" mobs. I'm pretty excited about mobs that aren't as fanciful as a raptor or ogre; it adds a sense of realism to the world that makes it seem that much more alive. Simple things such as watching a group of antelope run across a field creates an organic feel to the game that the devs are hoping will immerse the players moreso than any cactuar could.


It would be really neat if mobs in this game displayed realistic interactions, such as herd behavior. In XI monsters and animals just wandered randomly within their spawn radius, even passing through each other like they weren't there. I would love to see this game's antelope deliberately moving together in a group, nuzzling each other, running together when spooked, etc. Other mobs might protect their mates or tactically hunt in pairs like the codex talks about with the raptors (clever girl).

It would add both atmosphere and strategy to the game -- you would have to learn a bit about mob movement and behavior before you tried fighting them or sneaking past them.
#99 Oct 13 2009 at 1:29 PM Rating: Excellent
*
81 posts
Quote:

It would be really neat if mobs in this game displayed realistic interactions, such as herd behavior. In XI monsters and animals just wandered randomly within their spawn radius, even passing through each other like they weren't there. I would love to see this game's antelope deliberately moving together in a group, nuzzling each other, running together when spooked, etc. Other mobs might protect their mates or tactically hunt in pairs like the codex talks about with the raptors (clever girl).

It would add both atmosphere and strategy to the game -- you would have to learn a bit about mob movement and behavior before you tried fighting them or sneaking past them.


Yeah, they said on the site that the antelope behave like a pack; I'm pretty sure I mentioned it in the OP but will go back to make sure. They're really going all-out on the enemy AI this time; they even mentioned in an earlier interview that enemies quickly adapt to combos used in battle and will begin to block and counter more often if one repeats a pattern too frequently.
____________________________

#100 Oct 13 2009 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
**
340 posts
The Wild Saurian in the Dalmasca Estersand will occasionally kill and "eat" the Wolves near it. When it does, it gains a food buff from it. I think that would be an awesome application of realistic interaction.
#101 Oct 13 2009 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
***
2,614 posts
Quote:
Yeah, they said on the site that the antelope behave like a pack; I'm pretty sure I mentioned it in the OP but will go back to make sure. They're really going all-out on the enemy AI this time; they even mentioned in an earlier interview that enemies quickly adapt to combos used in battle and will begin to block and counter more often if one repeats a pattern too frequently.

Yeah, the bestiary hints at the behavior of the antelope and raptors, but I'm not sure if we should take it as an accurate description of gameplay elements or just as color. The antelope entry even says they communicate with the swaying of their tails -- could the AI really be that sophisticated?
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 20 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (20)