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#1 Oct 09 2009 at 5:22 PM Rating: Decent
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so... i've been wondering... have they said anything about a summoning class yet?

nearly every final fantasy has had some sort of emphasis on summoning.

I l o v e the summoning aspect of most ff's... but in xi, i really wanted to be a summoner but alas the trek of crap for 74 levels and finally worth something at 75 broke me down at lvl 52. i would rreeeallly love to be a summoner in an mmo (especially this one) that was really fun the whole way through!

what do you think!?

more accurately i guess i should say "will there be summoning magic in ffxiv" since the whole no class thing.


(sorry if this was already brought up, i did a search and found nothing XD)

Edited, Oct 9th 2009 9:24pm by Bocomi
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#2 Oct 09 2009 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
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They haven't announced anything regarding summoning or pet classes for that matter.

It is a Final Fantasy game though, they would be out of their minds if they didn't include it in some form or another. Summoning magic has been a part of Final Fantasy since FF3 if I'm not mistaken.
#3 Oct 09 2009 at 6:02 PM Rating: Decent
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I havent seen anything yet either. like the poster b4 me said, theyd be crazy to not include it in some way. i know when i played ffxi it was a job that i wanted to take to 75 but only managed to get it to the mid 20s lol. i had already played for 2 yrs and had 2 jobs at 75 and just got tired of the same ol same ol after awhile. but i think with this game it is going to be different for me, at least i hope anyways. i know i dont plan on playing for hours upon hours a day like in ffxi >.<
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#4 Oct 09 2009 at 7:16 PM Rating: Decent
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It's also a possibility that there won't be a summoner specialty, but that each player will be able to equip one summon, or a similar system.
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#5 Oct 09 2009 at 7:27 PM Rating: Good
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They've mentioned summons but nothing about summoners, which suggests that it might be more in the realm of the traditional 'huge giant AoE spell' than a pet class.
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#6 Oct 09 2009 at 8:10 PM Rating: Decent
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For all we know "Thaumaturge" may be the summoning class. I highly doubt it. I did read somewhere tho that said they were not going to be adding any pet classes until the first expansion, but you can't always believe what you read :)
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#7 Oct 09 2009 at 8:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Seem to recall SE saying there new pet jobs in development at this time. Might've been somewhere around Gamescon. Given the stigma they endured in XI, I'm not all that surprised. However, with the promise of adding classes through normal updates instead of expansions, there never being a pet job certainly isn't set in stone.
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#8 Oct 09 2009 at 8:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Summoner doesn't have to really be a pet class though, either.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#9 Oct 09 2009 at 8:28 PM Rating: Good
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I'd honestly call it a step backward for the job concept if it just became a different form of BLM again.

Edited, Oct 10th 2009 12:29am by Seriha
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#10 Oct 09 2009 at 8:31 PM Rating: Decent
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true summon may not be a pet class, it could be anything from aoe like spells as some have stated above or maybe you become/transform into the summoned monster yourself... or your character steps back while you (the player) take control of the summon. hmm the possibilities are endless

i don't really like games where everyone is able to get a pet... or a summon or w/e... i'de rather it be a specialty, it makes it feel more epic that way instead of so generic. imo

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I'd honestly call it a step backward for the job concept if it just became a different form of BLM again.


you do have a point, but in every other ff up until ffX that is essentially what it was. they would have to make some drastic differences between a normal nuker and a summon type ability if they went that direction

Edited, Oct 10th 2009 12:33am by Bocomi
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#11 Oct 09 2009 at 8:41 PM Rating: Decent
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well, they have yet to reveal the 5 magic classes. My guess is a healer, nuker, enfeebler(rdm), dancerish time mage thing, and summoner.
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#12 Oct 09 2009 at 8:57 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd honestly call it a step backward for the job concept if it just became a different form of BLM again.


They don't necessarily have to do it that way, either. They could go more along the lines of a morpher mechanic as well.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#13 Oct 09 2009 at 9:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I like summoner as a jack of all trades job. It should primarily function as a buffer and debuffer, but avatars should help the summoner fill the role that the party needs.

In XI Summoner abilities did work well against IT mobs for the most part and BP timers and large mp costs were just too much. Hopefully they found a way to balance the class out and make it more useful.
#14 Oct 09 2009 at 10:03 PM Rating: Good
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Tanaka wrote:
FFXIVcore wrote:
There were many Summons in FFXI, but for an online world, I never felt there were enough. What Summons can we expect to see in FFXIV and will there be more variety than in FFXI?

We can't really mention which summons will be in. But what we can say is that some is going to be really important in the storyline. It's not going to be included in the game like FFXI. At the moment we don't really have a class, a pet class / summoner. Not at the moment at least. So it will be implemented in the game in a different way. Please check back with us in the future.


(denied)
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#15 Oct 09 2009 at 10:29 PM Rating: Decent
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I can easily see the SMN class in high demand if they appear in FFXIV. Remember what SE said about the focus of FFXIV's battle system, they intend to surround us with waves of mobs, not single pulls. If check your FF history, no other class is better at total destruction of multiple mobs than the SMN class. Let's hope the balance of pet jobs is fixed in FFXI prior to the release of FFXIV. That way, people might have more faith in the class.

I think that we'll find out if SMN is coming out soon. SE hasn't really announced any mage jobs except BLM. Yeah, I'm calling it by our FFXI designation, not their new name.
#16 Oct 09 2009 at 10:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

We can't really mention which summons will be in. But what we can say is that some is going to be really important in the storyline. It's not going to be included in the game like FFXI. At the moment we don't really have a class, a pet class / summoner. Not at the moment at least. So it will be implemented in the game in a different way. Please check back with us in the future.


/cry

/wallow

/slitwrist
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#17 Oct 09 2009 at 11:05 PM Rating: Good
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shintasama wrote:
Tanaka wrote:
FFXIVcore wrote:
There were many Summons in FFXI, but for an online world, I never felt there were enough. What Summons can we expect to see in FFXIV and will there be more variety than in FFXI?

We can't really mention which summons will be in. But what we can say is that some is going to be really important in the storyline. It's not going to be included in the game like FFXI. At the moment we don't really have a class, a pet class / summoner. Not at the moment at least. So it will be implemented in the game in a different way. Please check back with us in the future.


(denied)


They're saving all the good stuff for expansion packs unfortunately. Not to say there isn't already good stuff we're getting. I kind of like that we're starting with 5 classes per disciple. Don't want to overburden the game.

Edited, Oct 10th 2009 3:05am by EpedemicOptikz
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#18 Oct 09 2009 at 11:05 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm hoping for something like FF6, Espers...where anyone can have a summon. Especially since FFXIV is focusing on a 'classless' system. It would be more fun and interesting this way.
#19 Oct 09 2009 at 11:07 PM Rating: Good
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EpedemicOptikz wrote:
shintasama wrote:
Tanaka wrote:
FFXIVcore wrote:
There were many Summons in FFXI, but for an online world, I never felt there were enough. What Summons can we expect to see in FFXIV and will there be more variety than in FFXI?

We can't really mention which summons will be in. But what we can say is that some is going to be really important in the storyline. It's not going to be included in the game like FFXI. At the moment we don't really have a class, a pet class / summoner. Not at the moment at least. So it will be implemented in the game in a different way. Please check back with us in the future.


(denied)


They're saving all the good stuff for expansion packs unfortunately. Not to say there isn't already good stuff we're getting. I kind of like that we're starting with 5 classes per disciple. Don't want to overburden the game.

Edited, Oct 10th 2009 3:05am by EpedemicOptikz


Yeah, it's not so bad once you consider that not even Dragoon, Samurai, Ninja or Summoners (with more than just Carby) were included in the original release of XI.
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#20 Oct 09 2009 at 11:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Kirbster wrote:
EpedemicOptikz wrote:
shintasama wrote:
Tanaka wrote:
FFXIVcore wrote:
There were many Summons in FFXI, but for an online world, I never felt there were enough. What Summons can we expect to see in FFXIV and will there be more variety than in FFXI?

We can't really mention which summons will be in. But what we can say is that some is going to be really important in the storyline. It's not going to be included in the game like FFXI. At the moment we don't really have a class, a pet class / summoner. Not at the moment at least. So it will be implemented in the game in a different way. Please check back with us in the future.


(denied)


They're saving all the good stuff for expansion packs unfortunately. Not to say there isn't already good stuff we're getting. I kind of like that we're starting with 5 classes per disciple. Don't want to overburden the game.

Edited, Oct 10th 2009 3:05am by EpedemicOptikz


Yeah, it's not so bad once you consider that not even Dragoon, Samurai, Ninja or Summoners (with more than just Carby) were included in the original release of XI.
God, XI must have been such an amazing game before Ninja came out. I wish I could have played in the days where leveling actually took some kind of skill, beyond "LET'S STRAP EVERYONE WITH UTSUSEMI AND FACEROLL."


And this is coming from someone who leveled Ninja to 75. Hopefully they think more carefully in the future when they introduce new classes and disciplines.
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#21 Oct 10 2009 at 12:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Long as they don't put Utsusemi in the game and DEF/VIT actually mean something, I think we'd be better off. That's another topic, though. :P
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#22 Oct 10 2009 at 12:07 AM Rating: Default
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From what it looks like to me all the old jobs are out the window. At least the names anyway (which I personally don't like...Pugilist? Wtf? I'm a Monk dammit!). While I'm sure they'll have a class that can summon SOMETHING (FF12 with their new list of summons for example) I doubt it will be called Summoner.
#23 Oct 10 2009 at 1:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Names are pointless. Function is what matters. We all know milk is white, is a good source of calcium, comes from cows, and goes good with cereal. Calling it moo juice or something equally silly doesn't change its function. People will need to shake that, "I'm a monk, damnit!" feeling as they realize both still punch **** while the Pugilist will probably have a lot more at its disposal considering the possibilities of this suggested class system.
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#24 Oct 10 2009 at 1:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Well yeah, but there is still an aesthetic quality to naming things, isn't there? I don't think it's completely unimportant, but I personally hope there's enough customization that it's impossible/unimportant to meaningfully define us by a simple job name.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#25 Oct 10 2009 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
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Kirbster wrote:
EpedemicOptikz wrote:
shintasama wrote:
Tanaka wrote:
FFXIVcore wrote:
There were many Summons in FFXI, but for an online world, I never felt there were enough. What Summons can we expect to see in FFXIV and will there be more variety than in FFXI?

We can't really mention which summons will be in. But what we can say is that some is going to be really important in the storyline. It's not going to be included in the game like FFXI. At the moment we don't really have a class, a pet class / summoner. Not at the moment at least. So it will be implemented in the game in a different way. Please check back with us in the future.


(denied)


They're saving all the good stuff for expansion packs unfortunately. Not to say there isn't already good stuff we're getting. I kind of like that we're starting with 5 classes per disciple. Don't want to overburden the game.

Edited, Oct 10th 2009 3:05am by EpedemicOptikz


Yeah, it's not so bad once you consider that not even Dragoon, Samurai, Ninja or Summoners (with more than just Carby) were included in the original release of XI.
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#26 Oct 10 2009 at 2:13 PM Rating: Decent
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I can agree that function matters more than name. But as the other guy said there's that classic quality to it that I want in there. So yeah its totally a superficial reason but that doesn't mean I can't think that way.
#27 Oct 10 2009 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I hope SE goes for a more mixed system if they do go backwards.

Rydia was more or less perfect, Dagger was acceptable. I.e. both had a spell set of their own, in addition to summons. If it should be healing or damage spells I can't say, but one of them SHOULD be included to make a Summoner role possible.

In the same way I'd like BLM to die, and be replaced by the Sage class. This one is BETTER at spells, but also have a few summons. That way there will be 2 classes moaning if either nukes fail or summons fail. Being solo on whining has not helped in XI. (See 2 handed users whining vs BLM whining or SMN whining)

And while FF6 had a nice system, I kind of preferred the FF8 system with "attach your favorite summon, and use it with unlimited charges, as long as it doesn't die while summoning".

FF10 of course was the ultimate system, but after the huge failure called 11, I'd rather not see SE's third attempt at it. (I still don't get how they managed to make the "upgrade your summon" system into "upgrade your puppet" system, but someone probably got brain freeze from eating too much icecream)

It wouldn't hurt if SE played some Aion to learn that you CAN have mages as melee DDs as well. (Heck, the healer classes have second highest armor class)
#28 Oct 10 2009 at 3:04 PM Rating: Default
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Summoners?? But why would want want another White Mage class?
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#29 Oct 10 2009 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
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It's also a possibility that there won't be a summoner specialty, but that each player will be able to equip one summon, or a similar system.


I wouldn't mind that but at the same time the idea is kinda meh to me. I liked the idea of a job specializing in it as much as I disliked how it was handled in FFXI.

Without invoking that which is Mellowy into this, some ideas that players have suggested over the years would be nice to see in some form or another. Though, maybe, that is just me talking out of my ***.
#30 Oct 10 2009 at 6:48 PM Rating: Decent
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If they go with the kind of system I'd like to see, you'll be able to equip a "Summoning Magic" ability, and then be able to pick which particular summons you'd like to equip.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#31 Oct 11 2009 at 1:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Iirc Around Gamescom they said that "at this moment there are no pet classes". This of course does not mean there won't be any, and tbh I don't think it will take a long time after release till they add pet classes(maybe they even add it in before final release).

About summoners, who knows, it all depends on what type of system they have in store for avatars. Either way though, if they make a new "summoner class" I really hope they do a better job with it than in FFXI, being defined by its sj for at least 74 lvls out of 75 is evidence of poor class design imo.
#32 Oct 11 2009 at 1:44 AM Rating: Good
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Seriha wrote:
Names are pointless. Function is what matters. We all know milk is white, is a good source of calcium, comes from cows, and goes good with cereal. Calling it moo juice or something equally silly doesn't change its function. People will need to shake that, "I'm a monk, damnit!" feeling as they realize both still punch sh*t while the Pugilist will probably have a lot more at its disposal considering the possibilities of this suggested class system.


I must have this "Moo Juice" Immediately!
#33 Oct 11 2009 at 8:07 AM Rating: Decent
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I want to summon the 12 gods! Maybe we can earn their summons through guildleves.
#34 Oct 11 2009 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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Belcrono wrote:
Iirc Around Gamescom they said that "at this moment there are no pet classes". This of course does not mean there won't be any, and tbh I don't think it will take a long time after release till they add pet classes(maybe they even add it in before final release).
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Tanaka wrote:
We can't really mention which summons will be in. But what we can say is that some is going to be really important in the storyline. It's not going to be included in the game like FFXI. At the moment we don't really have a class, a pet class / summoner. Not at the moment at least. So it will be implemented in the game in a different way. Please check back with us in the future.
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#35 Oct 11 2009 at 11:52 AM Rating: Default
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I would really love if they put summoner in this game like the way they did pre-FFX where they come do a action then go. I can defiantly see this working if they do decide to add summoner this way since at endgame in FFXI I remember a lot of summoners who would summon garuda predator claw then dismiss.
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#36 Oct 11 2009 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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I can see where the summoner would summon a, er, summon, but instead of it acting like a pet and following alongside your character, your character is simply replaced by the summon which you directly control. Apply whatever limits and controls you want on that system, but I think that would be a decent basis to build a class from.
#37 Oct 11 2009 at 5:57 PM Rating: Decent
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After enduring FFXI's version of summoner, I would appreciate the total exclusion of this class in FFXIV.
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#38 Oct 12 2009 at 6:51 AM Rating: Decent
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shintasama wrote:
Belcrono wrote:
Iirc Around Gamescom they said that "at this moment there are no pet classes". This of course does not mean there won't be any, and tbh I don't think it will take a long time after release till they add pet classes(maybe they even add it in before final release).
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Tanaka wrote:
We can't really mention which summons will be in. But what we can say is that some is going to be really important in the storyline. It's not going to be included in the game like FFXI. At the moment we don't really have a class, a pet class / summoner. Not at the moment at least. So it will be implemented in the game in a different way. Please check back with us in the future.


I'm really not seeing where you are going with this? The way I interpereted that quote they said there are no pet classes right now, but they plan on introducing them later. Might not be actual classes, but maybe everyone can have pets or something completely different(who knows), but not in any way did I mention how they were doing things except "however they do it I hope it is different from FFXI". So I don't see your point.

And about my brain turning off when readin stuff I don't want to hear, I don't really feel that strongly either way so I don't see how you've managed to "say something I don't want to hear" in the first place. But since you seem to feel I said something stupid or something that's already been said, sorry, didn't mean to.
#39 Oct 12 2009 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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im going to play this game reguardless of if smn is in or not but this is my number 1 "wish" for this game its looking like its not going to be in the game at release so ill have to wish for a dark knight'ish type job but im with others when i think that it would be silly of SE to be taking there second shot at an mmorpg and leave out such a Stand out class when u c a smn u think **** that looks cool..

i know u can nit pick this to death but in MY OPINION all the other classes are more or less the same but a smn just has that wow factor that would be dumb to ignore and i dont think they will for said reason SE ill litarally pay u money to include smn lol
#40 Oct 12 2009 at 2:42 PM Rating: Decent
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A "transformation" will never be a gameplay mechanic with summoners (at least not a primary one) because then its not an act of "summoning" anything. I can see a "spiritual fusion" of sorts, IE. - they get summoned, spirit of player enters the summoned creature's body temporarily to assume control bla bla blah - but not a "transformation".

My personal preference would be to see summons as something extremely powerful but extremely hard to get. Something like "only one summon can be 'equipped'" to take out with you in the field or whatever. One of the things that disappointed me about FFXI, is everyone could be a summoner but everyone was balanced. Summoners in the FF series have always been very powerful compared to non summoners - at least until very high levels when summons might become less useful compared to say, "the best weapon in the game" or whatever. For example, in FFVII, summons were the key to winning most fights for most people. However, later on, you learn that you can actually do more damage, faster, with omni-slash and a couple hero drinks than you can with knights of the round or a Bahamut-W-Summoning. In general though - you play a summoner in FFXI and feel fragile and weak soloing until very-high-level, when suddenly you become 'good enough' - and even then its still only average in most situations.

I guess I want to see summons actually be in line, at least for the most part, with 'the peak' of powerful things in the game that anyone can participate in experiencing, instead of 'just another job'.


EDITED IN PS. - To see what FF is without summons, watch spirits within... ugh.

Edited, Oct 12th 2009 4:43pm by FUJILIVES
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#41 Oct 12 2009 at 2:44 PM Rating: Good
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LCowden wrote:
While I'm sure they'll have a class that can summon SOMETHING (FF12 with their new list of summons for example) I doubt it will be called Summoner.


I'm not really too fussed about how they implement summons, whether its as a class, or just part of the storyline. I'm just hoping that they stick with the traditional summons/avatars/espers (or w/e they plan to call them this time) that I have grown to love over the years, and that I have come to associate with FF games in general.

I wasn't really to fond of FF12's new list of summons. Not that I'm against new summons, I just want to see the old favourites make a return in some way or another. To me the Avatars are a big part of my FF buzz, we all have our favourite one, and its an aspect of FF that I eagerly look forward to with each new installment of the series.

Edited, Oct 12th 2009 8:51pm by GenryuOfBahamut
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