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Fantasy mechanics tropesFollow

#1 Oct 22 2009 at 2:47 AM Rating: Good
There's some established tropes in fantasy games that I'd rather see done away with, I think they can be done much better now. You basically see them in any RPG or fantasy game these days, especially MMORPGS.

1. First and foremost is threat management. In MMORPGS, and to some extend in RPGs, there's this idea that you can have one character wave their hand and shout a lot, and no matter how intelligent a monster, they're going to go for that guy instead of gacking the cloth wearing healer that's keeping everyone alive. trope.

Wouldn't it be neat to see a new system created? Perhaps no threat at all? Well at least no taunts. Enemies would go after what's actually a bigger threat. There would be no 'tank' class to speak of. In stead, it would actually matter where you are standing. Mobs couldn't just go through you. You could actually cover your healer like the paladin cover ability. Heavy armored people would stand in the front in parties to protect the other people instead of everyone just standing around. Spearmen could be lightly armored but stand behind, like in a real battle.

2. Healers: because of the difficulty in really modeling combat in a videogame, there's this concept where if a mob attacks, they basically do generic damage against your life pool. If your life reaches zero you die, but other than that you generally don't show any effect of that giant axe that just met you in the face. What is this supposed to represent? It doesn't represent much of anything. Where did this really come from even? Because of this, you can have healers who cast spells that heal this generic damage that exists somewhere on your body but not really.

Imagine instead a system where instead of a 'life pool' you had a stamina measure. When you get attacked, you defend. This takes from your stamina. If you are very good at defending, it takes less stamina. For instance, an agile thief might have a good chance to dodge and not lose stamina. A person with a shield has a chance to block with the shield. Having lots of stamina greatly enhances your chance to block or parry, which diverts damage but the lower your stamina gets, the less you can block and parry. If your stamina is very low, you're taking most of the hit on your body. If you're just in leather or cloth, a single hit can be lethal, but if you're in plate armor, you can take a few hits.

Instead of healers healing a generic mana pool, this leaves room for all sorts of recovery jobs. Bards could rally the party, giving a stamina boost, priests could do the same with prayers, or have spells that refresh stamina directly. Combat classes even could have abilities like 'second wind' that gives a stamina refresh. Then actual body damage would take longer to repair and be more serious. If you took body damage, your stats would be decreased until you were healed too, as you're actually injured.

I think this would be a little more akin to real life, but not so much that it wouldn't be fun. In fact, I think it would be lots of fun.


What are some other conventions that seem to exist in each fantasy game that we could probably get over or rethink how to do in a more interesting way?

Edited, Oct 22nd 2009 1:48am by digitalcraft
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#2 Oct 22 2009 at 3:52 AM Rating: Decent
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About the HP/Stamina idea: Brilliant, but if I am not mistaken, it was done before in a roughly similar fashion in Lord of the Rings online - wasn't it?

And about the hate/threat management: I'm all on your side on this one, too. Actually, since positioning plays such important a role as stated in the interviews, there is a *slight* chance something similar will be implemented. However, as far as I remember, the "Gladiator" class at gamescom alpha also had the "provoke" ability... and this bodes poorly for the idea's future...
#3 Oct 22 2009 at 7:05 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
About the HP/Stamina idea: Brilliant, but if I am not mistaken, it was done before in a roughly similar fashion in Lord of the Rings online - wasn't it?


No. LotRO just changed the label from "Health" into "Morale", but didn't actually do anything out of the ordinary.
#4 Oct 22 2009 at 8:37 AM Rating: Default
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I really like your ideas it be a refreshingly new concept to the series and really bring that "something different" several FF fans are craving.

The only thing I would add is that enemies of a higher intelligence or magic users might not fall for the Physical Attack class wall. They'd be able to sense the other party members, recognize the benefit of taking them out and going around the wall. The same would go for very large and very fast enemies. Of course, that's where provoke would come in handy.

Also, since you suggest that ability to defend. Would you prefer to have a button push battle versus a menu driven battle system? Hybrid?
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#5 Oct 22 2009 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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In this situation I'd like to remind you that this is a game where people wield magic, cat's stand on two legs and are as intelligent as any person, dragons exist, and monsters are to be found in various shapes and forms. Trying to make it more "realistic" will really get you nowhere unless you get rid of magic, monsters and giant people-cats.

Your first thought is impossible to implement. Oh, someone might figure out how to code it one day but the game would be impossible to play. If your target constantly was trying to attack the target that was the most threatening the "tank" would actually never get hit since the target would just move away from him. The tank would have to move around constantly trying to get between the target and your squishy member and since the target would get ever closer to your healer/damage dealer your whole team would have to constantly move away from the mob. The only way around these problems is to give the tank abilities that limit the target's mobility...which essentially turns your tank into crowd control and not a tank. Add to it all that taunting is a very real practice and does actually work...which is why we have the word in the first place. Brilliant generals can be and often are tricked into attacking targets that leave them open for attack from other locations...it's tactics. Just as you thought it unrealistic for ALL mobs to be tauntable I think it's unrealistic for ALL mobs to discern the most dangerous target. Most of the mobs in the game will be monsters or animals that have no capacity for that sort of thought.

However, that isn't to say that all mobs should be tauntable. Take WoW for example. Most of the raid bosses can't be taunted. Your raid simply has to manage their hate so that it is less than the tank's.

As for your second idea you are really just talking semantics. It's essentially the same thing as we have now but just with a different name so it seems more "realistic".
#6 Oct 22 2009 at 10:40 AM Rating: Decent
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digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:

1. First and foremost is threat management. In MMORPGS, and to some extend in RPGs, there's this idea that you can have one character wave their hand and shout a lot, and no matter how intelligent a monster, they're going to go for that guy instead of gacking the cloth wearing healer that's keeping everyone alive. trope.
No, I would never want to see this. It adds very clear definition to each class, and I'm a fan of that. As well, it's just too difficult to actually implement, as it would pretty much alienate certain classes even moreso than they already are. You think it's hard to be a Dragoon now? Wait until your only role is damage, and you have no way to rip things off of the healer. It's going to be even more difficult for you, as you will have no real niche to fill.


Other than that, I have no real issues with anything said here.
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#7 Oct 22 2009 at 11:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:

1. First and foremost is threat management. In MMORPGS, and to some extend in RPGs, there's this idea that you can have one character wave their hand and shout a lot, and no matter how intelligent a monster, they're going to go for that guy instead of gacking the cloth wearing healer that's keeping everyone alive. trope.

Wouldn't it be neat to see a new system created? Perhaps no threat at all? Well at least no taunts. Enemies would go after what's actually a bigger threat. There would be no 'tank' class to speak of. In stead, it would actually matter where you are standing. Mobs couldn't just go through you. You could actually cover your healer like the paladin cover ability. Heavy armored people would stand in the front in parties to protect the other people instead of everyone just standing around. Spearmen could be lightly armored but stand behind, like in a real battle.


While an interesting way to add realism, consider the fact that latency alone will make this impossible to implement. In addition, consider that FFXI had a positioning system - the entire THF job was based around the right positioning. Before level 60, it was painful to perform since it relied on your party members not moving. And that was just getting 2 people to behave - imagine needing your entire party to behave and coordinate like that. It would lead to heart attacks.
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#8 Oct 22 2009 at 12:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
1. First and foremost is threat management. In MMORPGS, and to some extend in RPGs, there's this idea that you can have one character wave their hand and shout a lot, and no matter how intelligent a monster, they're going to go for that guy instead of gacking the cloth wearing healer that's keeping everyone alive. trope.

Wouldn't it be neat to see a new system created? Perhaps no threat at all? Well at least no taunts. Enemies would go after what's actually a bigger threat. There would be no 'tank' class to speak of. In stead, it would actually matter where you are standing. Mobs couldn't just go through you. You could actually cover your healer like the paladin cover ability. Heavy armored people would stand in the front in parties to protect the other people instead of everyone just standing around. Spearmen could be lightly armored but stand behind, like in a real battle.


I see what you're saying, but that's exactly what the hate system is; a powerful healing spell attracts the attention of the mob, just as a great amount of damage simulates a mob feeling threatened. There isn't a physical aspect to it, but it sounds like they want to implement something to that effect in XIV.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2009 2:05pm by KierraXIV
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#9 Oct 22 2009 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
I don't think it would be impossible to implement, I don't think it would even be that hard. They already have positioning far back in FFXI, they just didn't use it in this way.
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#10 Oct 22 2009 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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One issue with having players able to block monster's movements is that this can be too easily exploited.

Power leveling would consist of having a high level tank block a medium level mob in a corridor, then a bunch of low level players can nuke and use range attacks on the high level mob from a safe distance.

Also you can't give players the ability to block the path of other players. That would be super bad (just think about how jerks can use this). So that would mean that players can walk through their friend to attack a mob then run back behind their friend, and then the mob can't walk through their friend to get to them.
#11 Oct 22 2009 at 3:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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fun > realism
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#12 Oct 22 2009 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
I don't think it would be impossible to implement, I don't think it would even be that hard. They already have positioning far back in FFXI, they just didn't use it in this way.


Then you aren't considering issues caused by lag. Even minimal latency could cause the mob to appear to phase through a player since the client and server wouldn't agree on the respective positions of the mob and player. You could increase each of the players "hit box" persay, but you'd just run into another non-realism problem which seems to be the jist of what you're going for.

Plus, it would still be a nightmare attempting to get people to cooperate. And after leveling THF to 75 and doing merits on it, I'm tired of positioning systems being the core of gameplay.

Again, there's nothing wrong with trying to think of new ways to program systems, but I just don't think this one could work without causing way too much undue stress.
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#13 Oct 22 2009 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure how well these ideas will work in practice, but I would realy like to see a more complicated battle system where just making sure a health bar does not hit 0 is not your only job as a healer, and combat takes alot more focus.
#14 Oct 22 2009 at 4:40 PM Rating: Decent
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I've seen something similar in other games in regards to a stamina system. The best examples I can think of are Star Ocean and Darkfall Online. In the Star Ocean games your characters have a fury bar that is drained whenever you use an ability then it regens as long as you stand still. Having fury maxed out allows you to sometimes block enemy attacks and enemies can damage your fury as well. In Darkfall, players have a seperate MP bar for casting, but running, blocking, swinging a weapon, etc. all require stamina. Without stamina you cannot attack, jump, run, block, etc.
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#15 Oct 22 2009 at 5:28 PM Rating: Good
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Your first thought is impossible to implement. Oh, someone might figure out how to code it one day but the game would be impossible to play. If your target constantly was trying to attack the target that was the most threatening the "tank" would actually never get hit since the target would just move away from him. The tank would have to move around constantly trying to get between the target and your squishy member and since the target would get ever closer to your healer/damage dealer your whole team would have to constantly move away from the mob. The only way around these problems is to give the tank abilities that limit the target's mobility...which essentially turns your tank into crowd control and not a tank. Add to it all that taunting is a very real practice and does actually work...which is why we have the word in the first place. Brilliant generals can be and often are tricked into attacking targets that leave them open for attack from other locations...it's tactics. Just as you thought it unrealistic for ALL mobs to be tauntable I think it's unrealistic for ALL mobs to discern the most dangerous target. Most of the mobs in the game will be monsters or animals that have no capacity for that sort of thought.


Actualy you are in part very wrong. Apart from UO and Darkfall, DDO comes to mind for systems that have ventured into this kind of mechanic. In DDO there is a tuant like mechanic but more importantly NPCs and PCs can't move through eachother, so a standard doorway can be blocked by two plate wearers keeping everyone behind safe. Ranged attacks can still reach beyond the front line but melee mobs are stuck trying to hammer through to get at the casters and others.
So long as you can find a choke point there is no reason one or more people with armor and shields should not be able to block it off, or even 3 or 4 of them to block up a corner. The only thing keeping tuant the most viable path is lazy gamers who don't want to have to learn an unfamilier tanking system and a strange desire for 100% move through.

As for your whole it's fantasy don't try to make it more realistic argument.. it's saddly overused, I've seen it used as an argument for not trying something new so many times it's come to represent a cheap and lazy excuse to me. Haveing magic and fantastic races is not an excuse for not trying to make a more interesting combat system.
It's like the people who insist that a more realistic combat system can't be more fun that the old EQ/WoW type systems. Too much realism could be bad but that doean't mean that adding enough to spice combat up is out of the question.

People just need to get past the idea that combat will already not work the same as XI, EQ, or WoW. They have told us group combat will be mostly against groups of mobs, we have images of shield spells that block mobs... I can't imagine the group combat system will be anything like it was in XI.
#16 Oct 22 2009 at 7:21 PM Rating: Decent
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we need HP, MP and TP

plus... stamina, should have made us eat some food to maintain stamina
every single food will increase ur stamina and also have special effects like STR+, MP regen or something like that.
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#17 Oct 23 2009 at 12:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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zurinadrg wrote:
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Your first thought is impossible to implement. Oh, someone might figure out how to code it one day but the game would be impossible to play. If your target constantly was trying to attack the target that was the most threatening the "tank" would actually never get hit since the target would just move away from him. The tank would have to move around constantly trying to get between the target and your squishy member and since the target would get ever closer to your healer/damage dealer your whole team would have to constantly move away from the mob. The only way around these problems is to give the tank abilities that limit the target's mobility...which essentially turns your tank into crowd control and not a tank. Add to it all that taunting is a very real practice and does actually work...which is why we have the word in the first place. Brilliant generals can be and often are tricked into attacking targets that leave them open for attack from other locations...it's tactics. Just as you thought it unrealistic for ALL mobs to be tauntable I think it's unrealistic for ALL mobs to discern the most dangerous target. Most of the mobs in the game will be monsters or animals that have no capacity for that sort of thought.


Actualy you are in part very wrong. Apart from UO and Darkfall, DDO comes to mind for systems that have ventured into this kind of mechanic. In DDO there is a tuant like mechanic but more importantly NPCs and PCs can't move through eachother, so a standard doorway can be blocked by two plate wearers keeping everyone behind safe. Ranged attacks can still reach beyond the front line but melee mobs are stuck trying to hammer through to get at the casters and others.
So long as you can find a choke point there is no reason one or more people with armor and shields should not be able to block it off, or even 3 or 4 of them to block up a corner.
The only thing keeping tuant the most viable path is lazy gamers who don't want to have to learn an unfamilier tanking system and a strange desire for 100% move through.


Again, not as a reason to say "OMG, new ways to do a combat system!?! GTFO!", but consider the consequences of a battle system that required that kind of interplay. A lot of the leveling in XI was done in a field-setting; there were no choke points. Your healers are out in the open, as well as your DD and other squish-able characters. Unless you intend to run around with 5 tanks and one healer, you're going to have a hard time setting up a safe-setting for your squishy characters as a tank in a system that requires your to block the enemy with your character's body.
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#18 Oct 23 2009 at 8:01 PM Rating: Good
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shintasama wrote:
fun > realism


/thread

Realism ruined the FPS genre, you want RPGs to suck too?
#19 Oct 23 2009 at 9:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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yeek. double.


Edited, Oct 23rd 2009 11:59pm by Zemzelette
#20 Oct 23 2009 at 9:58 PM Rating: Good
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If you look at the situation objectively, these kinds of combat systems are surprisingly quite terrible.

The assembly-line slaughter of cows through rote memorization and base repetition, a means to an end rarely enjoyed for it's own merits beyond the initial learning phase and moments of human error/daring.

Lackluster Enemy AI isn't just a problem with MMOs, it's just the sheer amount of battles and years worth of investment really bring the problem to light. Being quite frank, we're talking the digital equivalent of hitting a tennis ball against a wall. The player may be active and dynamic, but the foe is a blank slate. Initially, there's room for the player to learn and explore. But only so much combat depth is possible when your foe is - at best - randomness.

There's many reasons the industry hasn't been flexing it's muscle in this regard. But one of the roadblocks in the MMO sphere is that the preservation of the Holy Trinity. Mob stupidity, via the Hate system, is a key ingredient in the separation of roles into Tanking, Healing and Damage Dealing. At least, in traditional MMO combat systems.

If we wanted to really reinvent the wheel, we'd need to drastically overhaul the system itself. For example, in Digital's suggestion; A certain degree of enemy cognizance is granted through the abandonment of the hate system and the way to preserve the holy trinity is by having tanking be more about positions. In the current system, as Yog said, that would transfer tank into a crowd control role. In this system your encouraged to keep a mob still and to be still yourself. Without provoke to achieve that, the system breaks down.

But what if you overhauled the system from the ground up emphasizing movement and location? What if battles were uprooted and became free-roaming engagements? What if you rewarded for movement instead of penalized? What if you could actually dodge? What if you could duck behind cover to avoid an enemy's spellcasting? What if your momentum could increase the damage of your physical attack? What if rote melee was no longer the soup du jour but abilities were the main means of acting? What if people had abilities that were integrated with movement, like a cover that teleports the tank to the target? What if abilities had knockback/throw capabilities? What if some spells were traps laid on a particular point in the field the mob had to be lured/knockedback/thrown into? What if you had to heal by touch? What if there were a line of spells that created protective barriers that could be placed on the field? A tank's job could be about positioning, because the system is about positioning.

Once you've abandoned Hate as the basis of Enemy AI, because you've found some other way to preserve the Holy Trinity, you've opened a world of possibilities. What if Mobs reacted to your abilities? What if they noticed your spellcasting and tried to stop you? What if they tried to run away, attack you, or duck behind cover as determined by a randomized set of behavior patterns? What if Mobs actively try to dodge your attacks if you approach from the front, forcing you to consider your angle of approach? What if you could feint an attack to get the mob to react in a certain way in order to take advantage in terms of timing or position?

The moment we breech the topic of Enemy AI in a serious way is when they stop being Mobiles and start being opponents.








Edited, Oct 24th 2009 12:35am by Zemzelette
#21 Oct 23 2009 at 11:16 PM Rating: Decent
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I could scarcely agree more, but the real challenge lies in preserving the genre conceptually while advancing these elements. Traditional RPGs are lately sitting precariously in a limbo of underdeveloped challenges between strategy RPGs and action RPGs, both of which require more involvement against a more formidable AI. What has yet to be done truly well at this point is add that level of depth to a genre which is not fully action nor fully strategy. Yet mincing these elements in an attempt to appeal to both demographics may well be a recipe for full-on failure, particularly with many people having a knee-jerk aversion to one genre or the other...

Yeah, I have a solution, but I'm not telling. I would like to hear other people's ideas though.
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#22 Oct 24 2009 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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Advanced AI adds a serious burden to the server side computers in an MMO.

For example, currently one server machine may be able to handle 1000 stupid monsters all with hate based combat at one time. If you seriously overhaul the AI, you might be only able to control 20 smart monsters per server. That would mean 50x more servers! Offloading some of the AI computation to the client probably isn't possible because of latency issues and it would allow hackers to modify the enemy AI.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, and if anyone should do it, it should be SE since they specialize in PvE. All I'm saying is that having advanced AI can have a huge impact on server maintenance costs in an MMO.
#23 Oct 24 2009 at 10:57 AM Rating: Decent
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And that's a very good reason why it hasn't even been plausible up until recently; however, it's not the most compelling reason anymore. If MMOs can't keep reasonable pace with the quality of offline content, they'll die. It has to be a priority.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#24 Oct 24 2009 at 6:16 PM Rating: Good
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The only information we have to draw on for how combat will work is what they have given us. They said group combat will be geared tward group vrs group and we have a hand full of screenshots and vidio clips with no direct eveidence there will be a classic healer outside of a coment about switching weapons to heal yourself after combat while soloing. They also suggest that there will be leves that take place in dungeon like settings as well as in the feild, my quick guess would be that the party you want will depend on where you are going.. but they seem to be pulling away from the XI mold makeing it easier to work with differing talents to acheive the same goal so if you can't get that second tank another caster will do fine.
We also know autoattack will be next to useless, instead we will be proforming actions if we want to actualy win a combat. They have shown that some of these will be more clasic attacks but we have yet to see if any of these are more geared twards movement or restricting/controling the movement of mobs.

With what they have shown you could justify an argument for most any combat system other than XI's to be a closer aproximation, though it does seem somewhat removed from the EQ/WoW interpritation of the "trinity" to me.
IMO it's unfortunate that they do seem to be still leaning twards a trinityish system but what classes and info they have given does sugest we will need healers of some kind with Dps people to hurt them and, well we do know there will be gladiators with sheilds.

Edit: I do appologise if I came across harshly, i did rewrite the whole thing before posting as my sis's ex was being a complete tushyface :P and I was sure it was starting to leak into what I was typing... I swear some people should be legaly permissable to strangle and dismember ;)

Edited, Oct 24th 2009 8:20pm by zurinadrg
#25 Oct 25 2009 at 5:21 PM Rating: Good
ChanchanXI wrote:
zurinadrg wrote:
Quote:
Your first thought is impossible to implement. Oh, someone might figure out how to code it one day but the game would be impossible to play. If your target constantly was trying to attack the target that was the most threatening the "tank" would actually never get hit since the target would just move away from him. The tank would have to move around constantly trying to get between the target and your squishy member and since the target would get ever closer to your healer/damage dealer your whole team would have to constantly move away from the mob. The only way around these problems is to give the tank abilities that limit the target's mobility...which essentially turns your tank into crowd control and not a tank. Add to it all that taunting is a very real practice and does actually work...which is why we have the word in the first place. Brilliant generals can be and often are tricked into attacking targets that leave them open for attack from other locations...it's tactics. Just as you thought it unrealistic for ALL mobs to be tauntable I think it's unrealistic for ALL mobs to discern the most dangerous target. Most of the mobs in the game will be monsters or animals that have no capacity for that sort of thought.


Actualy you are in part very wrong. Apart from UO and Darkfall, DDO comes to mind for systems that have ventured into this kind of mechanic. In DDO there is a tuant like mechanic but more importantly NPCs and PCs can't move through eachother, so a standard doorway can be blocked by two plate wearers keeping everyone behind safe. Ranged attacks can still reach beyond the front line but melee mobs are stuck trying to hammer through to get at the casters and others.
So long as you can find a choke point there is no reason one or more people with armor and shields should not be able to block it off, or even 3 or 4 of them to block up a corner.
The only thing keeping tuant the most viable path is lazy gamers who don't want to have to learn an unfamilier tanking system and a strange desire for 100% move through.


Again, not as a reason to say "OMG, new ways to do a combat system!?! GTFO!", but consider the consequences of a battle system that required that kind of interplay. A lot of the leveling in XI was done in a field-setting; there were no choke points. Your healers are out in the open, as well as your DD and other squish-able characters. Unless you intend to run around with 5 tanks and one healer, you're going to have a hard time setting up a safe-setting for your squishy characters as a tank in a system that requires your to block the enemy with your character's body.


The primary way I see this working is by reducing the movement speed of monsters during combat. In combat people aren't running full out, they're usually defending and moving slowly in order to not get hacked to death. If the monsters were moving slow in a defensive stance it wouldn't be too hard for people with shields and heavy armor to protect their lightly armored companions. Movement speed could be an important aspect of monster individuality, not having each one just move at 'very fast'. Certain monsters like raptors might have the ability to lunge at a squishy for a quick attack for instance.
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#26 Nov 10 2009 at 2:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Obviously this moving battle scheme has some drawbacks. The entire game becomes kiting. The tank charges, hamstrings, thunderclap (Sorry for the WoW terms), while 2 spellcasters spam stun, gravity and immobilization magic. You also have to keep in mind that the tank is no longer taking damage, unless the mob will attack the closest target regardless of the fact that the healer is the main focus.

Another good addition to a battle system is to have melee weapons deal area damage based on the swing. Since when can a weapon only damage the target of the swing? Whatever the weapon hits takes damage. Having an option to choose between piercing and slashing type of swings would be great. Different weapons could have different modifiers. Rapiers have low slashing damage, but high piercing damage, making them a good single target weapon, but relatively ineffective against large numbers. This opens alot more possibilities as far as terrain goes. Narrow hallways are ideal for bottlenecking mobs while unleashing large amounts of piercing damage (walls would restrict weapon swings, seeing as you can swing a weapon through a wall).

I feel like I got offtopic. As nice as these ideas sound the gameplay video makes it look like the combat system is already finalized, with small modifications based on beta testing.
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#27 Nov 10 2009 at 8:14 PM Rating: Default
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Mictam wrote:

I feel like I got offtopic. As nice as these ideas sound the gameplay video makes it look like the combat system is already finalized, with small modifications based on beta testing.


actually you have some of the best ideas in the thread. terrain based strategies like bottlenecking can lead to more deep, varied and fun gameplay.


zurinadrg wrote:

Edit: I do appologise if I came across harshly, i did rewrite the whole thing before posting as my sis's ex was being a complete tushyface :P and I was sure it was starting to leak into what I was typing... I swear some people should be legaly permissable to strangle and dismember ;)


for instance, people who use the word "tushyface"

Edited, Nov 10th 2009 9:29pm by Llester
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#28 Nov 10 2009 at 8:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Fun = Realism = Bushido Blade

I would totally play an MMORPG with a fighting style like Bushido Blade had.

Closest so far has been Demon's Souls, which while Demon's Souls game play is good and the PvP fun, the story was lacking terribly.
#29 Nov 11 2009 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
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CaptainTeg wrote:
Fun = Realism = Bushido Blade


**** yeah! Bushido Blade was awesome (BB2 sucked, though). Playing it system linked in first person was a blast.
#30 Nov 13 2009 at 4:47 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Obviously this moving battle scheme has some drawbacks. The entire game becomes kiting.


Unfortunately, this. I'd rather not level a healing class that all I end up doing is kiting.

Or this. Mob chases healer, eventually mob realizes healer isn't threatening. Mob turns to tank, who's been applying the debuffs and getting in his way, since that's the one who's been stopping him from getting his grubby little claws on the healer. He smacks the tank, healer heals tank, mob realizes healer is the bigger threat. Repeat. You could include the damage dealers. Mob realizes this whole time that this pesty lancer has been stabbing him. Mob turns to lancer, lancer starts running. Healer heals lancer. Mob turns to healer, realizing he just healed the lancer. Repeat. Sounds like threat mechanics, without any Provoke or Taunt, to me. Only real addition is collision mechanics. =/
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