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#1 Oct 22 2009 at 4:48 PM Rating: Good
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First of all let me say that I have no animosity towards FFXIV and I'm sure it will be a fantastic game. I personally will not be playing it, if only because MMOs have already taken up a large part of my life and after FFXI dies I down I want to kick the habit permanently. This is just something for you all to think about as the game comes closer to release:


Most of FFXI's players will cite the game's community as the reason they continue to come back to it. Unlike most MMORPGs, players of FFXI are nice, friendly, and willing to put the group's happiness before their own. There are exceptions of course, but the FFXI community remains the game's biggest selling point.

In those terms, FFXI is a very unique case. It isn't terribly old, but it did draw on a lot of teamwork elements from early MMORPGs and gradually managed to gather a lasting community that could survive in those conditions. Most online games feature everyone working for their own benefit, but any player who has made it far in FFXI knows that things flow the best when everyone looks out for each other above themselves. Now that XIV has been developed from the ground up in a post-World of Warcraft environment, I'm not sure if it has the potential to cultivate the same kind of community.

The developers have already stated that XIV will be, for lack of a better word, easier. While I welcome that from the standpoint of someone who doesn't have enough time to fully enjoy FFXI as it is, I'm not sure if the new game will be able to maintain the same kind of player-base that makes FFXI such a pleasure to be a part of, even if many of the players have migrated over from the older game. We must remember that the mindset of an FFXI player doesn't exactly come naturally; the game practically forces us to behave the way we do if we want to achieve anything. Without that reinforcement, I'm just not sure if XIV will be able to cultivate the same community that made its predecessor so famous.

tl;dr (If you must): I don't think XIV's community will be so great now that the game isn't harshly punishing people for being selfish loners like XI did. What do you think?
#2 Oct 22 2009 at 4:57 PM Rating: Good
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I'd rather deal with a few jackasses every now and then than trudge through a game that only rewards players for playing several consecutive hours a day. Sure, people do that in pretty much any other MMO, but FFXI practically forced you to do it.
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#3 Oct 22 2009 at 6:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Easy ways to avoid bad community:

1. Don't enter a general chat - Most of the idiots hang out in general chat.
2. Don't be an idiot - If the first one doesn't work you are most likely one of the idiots making the community bad.

Honestly, people keep on lauding FFXI for having a great community. I would have to say it was en par with WoW...simply with different qualities. The bad eggs in WoW are generally immature brats while the bad eggs in FFXI are generally arrogant, condescending jerks. The thing is there are more jerks in FFXI than brats in WoW, it's just that the brats are usually louder, especially if you're in trade channel.
#4 Oct 23 2009 at 12:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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When we get closer to launch and the forums begin to populate more, we'll be posting some community guidelines for XI veterans to follow. The older community members of XI have gained a bit too much snark for a new community and I want to avoid the general "chasing off" behavior that sometimes gets out of hand in the case of older communities. Hopefully this will help us build a great community.
#5 Oct 23 2009 at 2:39 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I don't think XIV's community will be so great now that the game isn't harshly punishing people for being selfish loners like XI did. What do you think?


There will be some noticeable differences in the very beginning. I think that as long as we avoid a 'Barrens chat' idiot zone syndrome we should be alright. Just discourage that kind of crap. Not saying that fresh blood is bad, but **** if I want the typical WoW player tendencies to become the norm for XIV, instead of a more reserved, polite, helpful community that encourages teamwork.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2009 2:52am by Kirbster
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#6 Oct 23 2009 at 4:25 AM Rating: Good
The dev's have said that there will be some casual play elements in FF XIV, but they also said there will be group elements as well. I don't think that we will see a huge influx of wow kiddies because of this. I think it will be ok.
#7 Oct 23 2009 at 6:07 AM Rating: Decent
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zXI wrote:
Most of FFXI's players will cite the game's community as the reason they continue to come back to it. Unlike most MMORPGs, players of FFXI are nice, friendly, and willing to put the group's happiness before their own. There are exceptions of course, but the FFXI community remains the game's biggest selling point.
Fallacy. XI is no better or worse than other communities. The only reason people seem to think so is because it's like a script that's been beaten into their heads and recited so many times it's hard not to believe it.


The fact of the matter is, XI is nothing special community-wise. When people started realizing that, that's when a lot of them jumped ship.



Let's try and remember this as this thread continues, because I think that it will sway posters a lot.
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#8 Oct 23 2009 at 6:16 AM Rating: Good
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The fact of the matter is, XI is nothing special community-wise. When people started realizing that, that's when a lot of them jumped ship.


I do believe there are features in the game that do make it better community wise compared to other games. I do think that the overall sense of community can be affected by the development decisions of the game as well. Thus I don't really agree with you.
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#9 Oct 23 2009 at 6:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Zackary wrote:
zXI wrote:
Most of FFXI's players will cite the game's community as the reason they continue to come back to it. Unlike most MMORPGs, players of FFXI are nice, friendly, and willing to put the group's happiness before their own. There are exceptions of course, but the FFXI community remains the game's biggest selling point.
Fallacy. XI is no better or worse than other communities. The only reason people seem to think so is because it's like a script that's been beaten into their heads and recited so many times it's hard not to believe it.


The fact of the matter is, XI is nothing special community-wise. When people started realizing that, that's when a lot of them jumped ship.



Let's try and remember this as this thread continues, because I think that it will sway posters a lot.


The **** it wasn't. The structure of XI pretty much forced people to work with others. As a result, we had a strong, helpful community. Granted, this was strongest in the pre-ToAU days, but seriously?

In any other MMO, other players pretty much don't give a **** about you. They really don't. It's a solo-fest. It was one of the things that irritated the **** out of me in WoW. You were basically playing a single player RPG with a messenger window.

When I first started XI, back in launch, a higher level JP player guided me to Jueno. I returned the favor and repeatedly helped newbies to Jueno or Bastok-Windy etc. These acts of kindness and gratitude were pretty common.

Perhaps now the community isn't as good as it once was, but it used to be fantastic.

I think people now are so caught up in endgame drama and self-gratification that they forgot that.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2009 7:36am by Kirbster
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#10 Oct 23 2009 at 7:10 AM Rating: Decent
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I simply don't believe that all other MMOs are solo-fests. In the pre-rush-to-60/70/80 days, a lot of people in Wienercraft (myself included) spent time, formed groups, and enjoyed lower level dungeon content. A lot of people, myself included, formed small 2-3 person groups, often with friends, to complete quests or merely explore the world, which was fun the first and second time around.

I returned to FFXI after 4-5 years and I don't have the same (read: any) time to play, let alone wait for a group to pick me up as my favorite job Blue Mage, so solo-ability wasn't there. And while I really enjoyed the friends I had back when I played FFXI, there was rampant racism back then between JP and NA (not everyone, but plenty), and now that I've come back with zero resources, the community isn't willing to help people with things like Promies or other content. So, this community aspect that people claim makes FFXI superior is elusive, at least to me.

A server community will be roughly the same from game to game. Jerks, nice people, brats. What makes a community in any game is the closer LS/Guild associations you develop. I don't deny that the pace and style of FFXI draws fewer brats who want instant gratification, but there are still plenty. I've had outstanding, self-sacrificing, friendly guilds in WoW and LS's in FFXI, and I've had selfish, rotten, backbiting experiences in both games too.

I tend to look at FFXI through rose colored glasses and see it as the "glory days" of my MMO experience. I think that plays a significant part of why people suggest that the community is superior.

That said, I can't wait for FFXIV. I plan to gather as many of the old FFXI and WoW friends as possible into one server and relive a lot of the old times, and I have no worries about "community," because it will be what I/We make it.
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#11 Oct 23 2009 at 7:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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For the first two months the WoW community was pretty helpful, around month three/four any question asked was answered with a "lrn2thottbot nub!" and most requests for assistance would go unanswered. While i haven't played FFXI in almost a year now people were still pretty **** helpful compared to the WoW community and extremely helpful for the first year I played. In FFXI I remember spending whole days sometimes just helping people do random quests/missions, in WoW I may help 1 person a week. For me it wasn't so much that i didn't want to help, it was more that in order to keep up with my friends (gear wise) I had to use what little time I had (play maybe 2 times a week) to run stuff for upgrades. WoW gear scales quickly, epics are genrally obsolete 2 months after acquiring them.
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#12 Oct 23 2009 at 8:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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I have to agree with Kirbster in that FFXI's community was alot more helpful before ToAU. Think about when you were a newbie, where did you learn most of aspects about the game. For the most part you learned from sites like alla (vn back in the day) or asking questions in game. I know when I played WoW for 30 days, I got ignored both in game and on sites, even by my own brother LoLz! FFXI made you rely on people for survival and to progress in game. Even if your community boiled down to just your LS, they were still helpful right?

On the other hand, today, its just tough getting anyone to do anything they don't want to. They already did the mission or don't feel like doing dynamis because they have all the gear there. In an LS of 60, we had dynamis attendance problems because everyone had all their gear for every job they leveled to 75. And newbies starting out in the beginner zones have trouble even finding people, let alone asking them questions.

I guess my point is that I want the FFXIV Community to sorta be like the FFXI community back in 04. I love grouping with people and getting to know them and how they play. But I hate and resent the fact that you can't progress far without grouping. Relying on parties or groups is a pain in ***, especially when you don't have time to play. Thats one of the reasons I quit FFXI.
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#13 Oct 23 2009 at 8:35 AM Rating: Good
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A server community will be roughly the same from game to game. Jerks, nice people, brats. What makes a community in any game is the closer LS/Guild associations you develop. I don't deny that the pace and style of FFXI draws fewer brats who want instant gratification, but there are still plenty. I've had outstanding, self-sacrificing, friendly guilds in WoW and LS's in FFXI, and I've had selfish, rotten, backbiting experiences in both games too.


I'm not trying to say that that good people are exclusive to any game, because they're not. I had a fantastic guild in WoW. But you said, there were fewer brats, and that, for me at least, made a world of difference.


Quote:
I guess my point is that I want the FFXIV Community to sorta be like the FFXI community back in 04. I love grouping with people and getting to know them and how they play. But I hate and resent the fact that you can't progress far without grouping. Relying on parties or groups is a pain in ***, especially when you don't have time to play. Thats one of the reasons I quit FFXI.


Pretty much. I'm hoping XIV will have the same feeling from groups without being completely forced to rely on them.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2009 7:37am by Kirbster
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#14 Oct 23 2009 at 8:49 AM Rating: Decent
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FFXI is the only MMORPG, I've ever played(off and on for 2 yrs from launch because of resources and time), so I can't compare it to another. But what I can say is that I felt FFXI was a mixed bag, which is great and why I played. To me an MMORPG allows you to enter a fantasy world with tons of RL people. And in RL some people suck and some don't and FFXI had them all. The best thing was finding people you could relate to and enjoy experiencing this fantastic world with. You run into some jerks, but that's life, be it RL or Fantasy Life. So the same will likely come with FFXIV.

As for as the emphasis on soloing, well that will be for those people. While those that truly enjoyed the party aspect will indulge as usual. But I like the idea being able to solo a job seeking a party which many parties don’t want, like my favorite thf. I look forward to “skilling up” singing “Level while you wait...(whistle)”
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#15 Oct 23 2009 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
Pikko wrote:
When we get closer to launch and the forums begin to populate more, we'll be posting some community guidelines for XI veterans to follow. The older community members of XI have gained a bit too much snark for a new community and I want to avoid the general "chasing off" behavior that sometimes gets out of hand in the case of older communities. Hopefully this will help us build a great community.

Older in age, or older in number of posts? Smiley: tongue I'm kidding, of course. Guys like Jinte and Darkdoom are a whole lot more mature than I was at their age.
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#16 Oct 23 2009 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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Fallacy. XI is no better or worse than other communities. The only reason people seem to think so is because it's like a script that's been beaten into their heads and recited so many times it's hard not to believe it.

The fact of the matter is, XI is nothing special community-wise. When people started realizing that, that's when a lot of them jumped ship.

Let's try and remember this as this thread continues, because I think that it will sway posters a lot.


People who state opinion as fact are not cool. Personally, I think what you just said here is 100% pure, unadulterated horse dookie. I've played quite a few MMOs extensively now and FFXI is simply on another level with the type of people it appeals to. When playing games like WoW for an extensive period, I actually found _myself_ starting to talk stupider and be more of a douche.

I also don't think this will change with FFXIV. Although it may seem to at first with the initial rush of people, the ones who stick with it will be the same type of people who enjoy a good challenge and a deep, rich world over an instant gratification system chock-full of /**** emotes and glowing shoulderpads the size of beach balls. And no, that's not just a rip on WoW.

The thing about MMOs is that they function like fads in that their popularity can be self-perpetuating. WoW had enough going for it to make it initially popular, but after that it was it's intrinsic popularity that turned it into the pop culture juggernaut that it became. People who have never played an MMO will usually start with the most popular one. Those who play it subconsciously think it must be the best simply because it's the most popular. This attitude in particular has a strong effect on young people, particular young, stupid people.

The worst thing that could happen to FFXIV would that it becomes horribly popular, but I think will be just niche enough to avoid that.
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#17 Oct 23 2009 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Kirbster wrote:
Zackary wrote:
zXI wrote:
Most of FFXI's players will cite the game's community as the reason they continue to come back to it. Unlike most MMORPGs, players of FFXI are nice, friendly, and willing to put the group's happiness before their own. There are exceptions of course, but the FFXI community remains the game's biggest selling point.
Fallacy. XI is no better or worse than other communities. The only reason people seem to think so is because it's like a script that's been beaten into their heads and recited so many times it's hard not to believe it.


The fact of the matter is, XI is nothing special community-wise. When people started realizing that, that's when a lot of them jumped ship.



Let's try and remember this as this thread continues, because I think that it will sway posters a lot.


The **** it wasn't. The structure of XI pretty much forced people to work with others. As a result, we had a strong, helpful community. Granted, this was strongest in the pre-ToAU days, but seriously?

In any other MMO, other players pretty much don't give a **** about you. They really don't. It's a solo-fest. It was one of the things that irritated the **** out of me in WoW. You were basically playing a single player RPG with a messenger window.

When I first started XI, back in launch, a higher level JP player guided me to Jueno. I returned the favor and repeatedly helped newbies to Jueno or Bastok-Windy etc. These acts of kindness and gratitude were pretty common.

Perhaps now the community isn't as good as it once was, but it used to be fantastic.

I think people now are so caught up in endgame drama and self-gratification that they forgot that.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2009 7:36am by Kirbster
You're so biased it's almost hard to believe you can't see it yourself.
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#18 Oct 23 2009 at 3:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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You're so biased it's almost hard to believe you can't see it yourself.


And you aren't?
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#19 Oct 23 2009 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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The only thing FFXI's party-based system forced on many players was frustration. You had to work as a team to accomplish anything, but that doesn't mean it "inspired teamwork". One bad egg in a party ruined it and, more times than not, I would have parties flop because of that one bad egg rather than boot him and find someone better because of the "look out for everyone" mentality. For the sake of politeness, many times five people would suck it up and let the sixth person drag everyone down. And for all you "fun > efficiency" people out there, tell me how you solve that equation when "fun = efficiency". I personally never had fun in parties that felt like they were dragging on and on at a snail's pace. I *wanted* fast paced groups, and I didn't want to feel like I was wasting my time with people who weren't putting in the same amount of effort.

The only thing forced-party play was semi-responsible for was for me meeting some of the folks with whom I eventually shared a linkshell. And you know what? I likely would have met them anyway. Even if leveling is completely soloable from min to max in FFXIV, you will still need to group up for quests, missions and possibly harder-boss type monsters. There *will* be grouping in FFXIV. But that doesn't mean you should have to group for absolutely everything.

Additionally, I'm with Zackary on his point - I don't think the FFXI community is anything to herald as a massive triumph in the MMORPG genre. There are absolutely helpful groups of individuals, bless their hearts. I even happened to be one of those individuals for a very long time over on the THF Job Forum. But for every helpful individual, there's at least two or three trolls, nonhelpful posters, or people who are incredibly stubborn. You will always have those negative individuals, and I don't think forced-grouping effects the rate of those unhelpful individuals. It just forces people to interact with them, which is just irritating.
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#20 Oct 23 2009 at 4:15 PM Rating: Good
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For the sake of politeness


You know, that's actually something very unique to FFXI. And it certainly made the community look better. You act polite or you won't get exp. Very effective way to make people behave. If you didn't, people would remember you and you would lose your rep, sooner or later.

Another thing is the fact that XI favored leveling only one character. If you lost your reputation, it was almost impossible to get it back. Sure, you could make a new character, but it is much more painful to do in XI than in other games for obvious reasons. It's a good way to get rid of the worst asshats, at least in endgame. Take some other game and the morons could just reroll and nobody would know that's the guy who ninja'd the lewt.
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#21 Oct 23 2009 at 5:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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You're so biased it's almost hard to believe you can't see it yourself.


pot, kettle, etc.

Yes, I'm so terrible in my bias, having quit XI because I was unhappy with it and going on to play WoW and Aion, and eagerly awaiting the Old Republic MMO. Please, enlighten me with your infinite wisdom, my philosopher king.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2009 4:26pm by Kirbster
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#22 Oct 23 2009 at 7:31 PM Rating: Default
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Kirbster wrote:
Quote:
You're so biased it's almost hard to believe you can't see it yourself.


pot, kettle, etc.

Yes, I'm so terrible in my bias, having quit XI because I was unhappy with it and going on to play WoW and Aion, and eagerly awaiting the Old Republic MMO. Please, enlighten me with your infinite wisdom, my philosopher king.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2009 4:26pm by Kirbster
Just because you had a positive experience where you played does not mean all of us did.

But we could just continue to be ******** to eachother, and make snide, sarcastic remarks as well. That'll work too.
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#23 Oct 23 2009 at 8:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Zackary wrote:
Kirbster wrote:
Quote:
You're so biased it's almost hard to believe you can't see it yourself.


pot, kettle, etc.

Yes, I'm so terrible in my bias, having quit XI because I was unhappy with it and going on to play WoW and Aion, and eagerly awaiting the Old Republic MMO. Please, enlighten me with your infinite wisdom, my philosopher king.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2009 4:26pm by Kirbster
Just because you had a positive experience where you played does not mean all of us did.

But we could just continue to be @#%^s to eachother, and make snide, sarcastic remarks as well. That'll work too.


It's when people are spouting out opinions as facts and then calling the people who refute those opinions "biased" that we get to make fun of them.
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#24 Oct 24 2009 at 2:45 AM Rating: Default
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
It's when people are spouting out opinions as facts and then calling the people who refute those opinions "biased" that we get to make fun of them.
It's not just my opinion, obviously. You know, since people agreed with me above. :)
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#25 Oct 24 2009 at 3:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Coming from someone who has had about 6 years of FFXI and 3 years of WOW, I'll throw my two cents in.

I feel that generally, FFXI's community was better because you were forced to spend more time together. I know I went off on a lot of people in WoW for being idiots because they were replaceable. In FFXI, especially now, if you **** someone off, there's a good chance it's going to hinder your personal goals somewhere down the road. You were going to see that level 35 rdm who ****** you off in Garliage on his 75 Pld shouting for a mission you need, and you won't get that mission done because you told him he was retarded.

I think at the core, both communities are about the same. It's due to the way FFXI makes you interact with people at every level bracket, and not just 80, like WoW does, that makes you think twice before you tell someone how much of a dumbass you think they are.

Plus, in WoW, anyone can talk to anyone else in town at any time through the use of the General/Trade Channel. And I remember seeing countless flame wars, spam, and all other forms of internet stupidity taking on it's purist form in those channels.

Anyways, that just my two cents.

Edited, Oct 24th 2009 5:25am by Jayenel
#26 Oct 24 2009 at 4:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's not just my opinion, obviously. You know, since people agreed with me above. :)


Lots of people in the world believe in imaginary creatures too.. it still doesn't make it a fact that they exist.

Edited, Oct 24th 2009 10:13am by Hyanmen
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#27 Oct 24 2009 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
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It's not just my opinion, obviously. You know, since people agreed with me above. :)


Lots of people in the world believe in imaginary creatures too.. it still doesn't make it a fact that they exist.


God may be fake, but to doubt the flying spaghetti monster is ludicrous!
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#28 Oct 24 2009 at 10:49 AM Rating: Default
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Unlike most MMORPGs, players of FFXI are nice, friendly, and willing to put the group's happiness before their own.


Guess you're using on of these:

http://maaadddog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/beergoggles.jpg
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#29 Oct 25 2009 at 12:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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From Pikko:

Quote:
When we get closer to launch and the forums begin to populate more, we'll be posting some community guidelines for XI veterans to follow. The older community members of XI have gained a bit too much snark for a new community and I want to avoid the general "chasing off" behavior that sometimes gets out of hand in the case of older communities. Hopefully this will help us build a great community.


Well, it is just like any community... you got to have your old snarkies around, just like you need those puppy-eyed kids.

NOW GET OFF OF MY **** LAWN!

**** whippersnappers...


/em shakes his cane at the Aion players....

I remember in my day when we had to WALK to Jeuno... uphill... in the snow... without Sneak or Invis... Just to earn the RIGHT to ride a chicken.
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#30 Oct 25 2009 at 2:49 PM Rating: Default
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The **** it wasn't. The structure of XI pretty much forced people to work with others. As a result, we had a strong, helpful community. Granted, this was strongest in the pre-ToAU days, but seriously?


The community feels more like if they have the same goal, then they work together. If not, then they couldn't care less about you. There are of course people who offer to help, but in general most people won't lift a finger unless they themselves need what the person asking for help needs.

For example, have you ever seen a WAR offer to change to WHM to heal the party because the RDM wanted to take a break from healing and nuke instead? No, you haven't.
#31 Oct 25 2009 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Mellowy wrote:
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The **** it wasn't. The structure of XI pretty much forced people to work with others. As a result, we had a strong, helpful community. Granted, this was strongest in the pre-ToAU days, but seriously?


The community feels more like if they have the same goal, then they work together. If not, then they couldn't care less about you. There are of course people who offer to help, but in general most people won't lift a finger unless they themselves need what the person asking for help needs.

For example, have you ever seen a WAR offer to change to WHM to heal the party because the RDM wanted to take a break from healing and nuke instead? No, you haven't.
We could also go into how XI just feels like a "nicer" and "more mature" community because the jackasses and retards voices aren't heard as loudly. If they had server-wide channels, you can bet your *** you'd see a lot more of them a lot more often.

That's WoW's vice. The channel system.
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#32 Oct 25 2009 at 7:46 PM Rating: Default
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It's when people are spouting out opinions as facts and then calling the people who refute those opinions "biased" that we get to make fun of them.


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#33 Oct 26 2009 at 10:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Zackary wrote:
We could also go into how XI just feels like a "nicer" and "more mature" community because the jackasses and retards voices aren't heard as loudly. If they had server-wide channels, you can bet your *** you'd see a lot more of them a lot more often.

That's WoW's vice. The channel system.


Honestly, if you are going to say that the channel system is "WoW's vice", you would be suggesting FFXI has a better communication system in place to minimize global numbnuts, no? A better communication system would definately (in some respect, large or small) lead to better community (because XSerphirothX isn't telling XxxCloudxxX how he ****** his mom last night over global chat).

It feels "nicer" and "more mature" because you don't have to deal with (or avoid) everyone on the server at once. Also, most MMO's reward the person who can adapt the most asshat-ery of an attitude through the "im a baddazz...fear mez purplz gear, biznitch" global mentality, whereas in FFXI you were more apt to watch your tone and attitude knowing full well that server reputation could easily bar your progress in-game. When there are reminders such as this, you tend to get a more pleasant environment to play in...unlike the majority of MMO's where if you become isolated through your attitude, you can simply solo to Cap and PuG all the content (which is what makes WoW such a magnet to morons such as this).
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#34 Oct 26 2009 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Ryneguy wrote:
Zackary wrote:
We could also go into how XI just feels like a "nicer" and "more mature" community because the jackasses and retards voices aren't heard as loudly. If they had server-wide channels, you can bet your *** you'd see a lot more of them a lot more often.

That's WoW's vice. The channel system.


Honestly, if you are going to say that the channel system is "WoW's vice", you would be suggesting FFXI has a better communication system in place to minimize global numbnuts, no?
That's pretty much what I was getting at, yeah.
Ryneguy wrote:
It feels "nicer" and "more mature" because you don't have to deal with (or avoid) everyone on the server at once. Also, most MMO's reward the person who can adapt the most asshat-ery of an attitude through the "im a baddazz...fear mez purplz gear, biznitch" global mentality, whereas in FFXI you were more apt to watch your tone and attitude knowing full well that server reputation could easily bar your progress in-game. When there are reminders such as this, you tend to get a more pleasant environment to play in...unlike the majority of MMO's where if you become isolated through your attitude, you can simply solo to Cap and PuG all the content (which is what makes WoW such a magnet to morons such as this).
I don't really have a whole lot of contact with people outside of my guild anymore, so you may or may not be right. I'm not exactly in a position to argue with it.

Edited, Oct 26th 2009 3:20pm by Zackary
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Thank god I stopped playing MMOs.
#35 Oct 29 2009 at 12:31 AM Rating: Good
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I played FFXI from NA release on PC, up until WoW release. I quit WoW a couple years later, and went back and played FFXI for about a year. My experiences were varied.

Early on, FFXI's community was amazing. Everyone was helpful(or at least tried to be -_-), and most people looked out for one another. If a party member was slacking, people would try their hardest to help that person improve.

Early on in my WoW career, it was pretty much the same deal. At release, WoW's leveling time was no where near what it was today, and it would take a decent amount of time to hit cap, if you weren't trying to just blow through content. While entirely solo friendly, people constantly grouped, did dungeons, and helped each other out.

Now, I believe the reason the two games shared similar experiences to me, is because it was just new to everyone(minus the Japanese population on FFXI). Not many people knew what they were doing, where they were going, what did what, etc, and I'm willing to bet either game was a first MMO for a lot of people.

Eventually, WoW grew to be rather large in the first few years. People figured everything out. What classes did the best damage, the best tanks, the best healers, the optimal spec for each class, best gear choices, all that jazz. This lead to elitism. Nobody likes it, but where "the best" can be attained, it breeds. You also ran into the asshats who just didn't give 2 gil about anyone but themselves. I hate these guys, but they exist.

I eventually quit WoW, and go back to good old FFXI. Quite a bit as changed. ToAU has been released, along with a few new classes I've never experienced. I get back into playing, catching up on all I've missed. This time around, not everyone is as nice as they used to be. I also find the elitests, the asshats. In fact, the term "lol<insertclasswithwyvernhere>" all over the place. I wasn't sure which game I was playing. Albeit, it's not as severe as WoW, but I was taken aback.

Honestly, in my opinion, what it all boils down to is population. You'll find more elitests and asshats in WoW simply because the population there is enormous. Not to say that if we boiled it down to percentages, that the two games would be in a dead heat, but I'd be fooling myself to assume I don't find any in FFXI.

I truly hope that once FFXIV is released, the community is fantastic. With one massive group of people who are extremely confused, have no idea what's going on, and enjoy getting killed with other people. I have every intention of starting an LS/Guild/Clan/Club House full of people who aren't what my entire post despises.
#36 Oct 29 2009 at 1:51 AM Rating: Decent
Kirbster wrote:
Quote:
I don't think XIV's community will be so great now that the game isn't harshly punishing people for being selfish loners like XI did. What do you think?


There will be some noticeable differences in the very beginning. I think that as long as we avoid a 'Barrens chat' idiot zone syndrome we should be alright. Just discourage that kind of crap. Not saying that fresh blood is bad, but **** if I want the typical WoW player tendencies to become the norm for XIV, instead of a more reserved, polite, helpful community that encourages teamwork.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2009 2:52am by Kirbster


Barrens chat was different from Jeuno/Whitegate shout spam how exactly?
#37 Oct 29 2009 at 2:29 AM Rating: Good
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Barrens chat was different from Jeuno/Whitegate shout spam how exactly?


Only difference I noticed was the lack of <Insert star of Walker Texas Ranger> jokes in Whitegate.

Which itself is a huge plus. But still.

Edited, Oct 29th 2009 4:30am by Jubs
#38 Oct 29 2009 at 5:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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People will be people regardless of game, and given the recent *********** of a thread "reviewing" Aion in =10 where the community matter came up, I'll pretty much reiterate it's what you make of it. Some days will be good. Some days will be bad. It's easier than **** to point your finger at the vocal idiots, but for every one of them, there's a good chance there's numerous quality people you'd never even notice unless the game was forcing you to interact with them. In a way, I'd also call the Linkshell system a curse since endgame almost always became an "Us vs. Them" deal where cooperation between groups was very rare.
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#39 Oct 29 2009 at 7:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Jubs wrote:
Honestly, in my opinion, what it all boils down to is population. You'll find more elitests and asshats in WoW simply because the population there is enormous.


This.

The problem is not the elitists and asshats though, its just the asshats OR the elitists. Is a community better because it has less asshats and too many elitists or vice versa? I wouldn't even consider it a community issue. We're all just a bunch of people who may or may not have something else in common outside of the fact that we like(or somewhat dislike) spending our time(or waste of it if thats how you feel) sharing content. If you do not want to share this content weather you're an asshat OR an elitist then you aren't for the community.

There will probably be a smaller learning curve in XIV, but I am almost certain that you will see the return of the war/whm who doesn't know how to type in /party. There will be no shortage of rdm/war who (heal) (No thanks!) and whm/war who fail to understand what the /heal command does. It is going to happen, again. A few years from now most of you will still be ******** and many more of us will come away with other good or bad experiences. Take it for what it was back then and not in light of what you now know.

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#40 Oct 29 2009 at 10:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Honestly, people keep on lauding FFXI for having a great community. I would have to say it was en par with WoW...simply with different qualities


This is very true*. Things may of changed since I left XI about 2 years ago, but people were horribly rude and nasty. They are actually the reason I quit. People were just terribly rude. Most of them were adults, it was the younger players that were nicer. One younger player just started, and we invited him to our LS because someone in our group (shamefully a "friend" of mine at that point around 24yrs old) told the younger player to quit and go kill himself because he wasn't doing well in the dunes. This is an example of many things I saw in XI. When I got into an HNMLS, another bard (a 27yr old woman iirc) started telling me exactly what to do instead of giving me tips (as if I wasn't already lvl 75). She was very rude and stubborn.

I currently play in an adult guild on WoW. They are the most polite people you have ever played with. The drop anything to help you accomplish something, they go completely out of their way. In WoW I have noticed that there are many more younger players that sometimes do not act right, but that is out of ignorance, not being rude. Many of them I point out the proper way to ask and they very often say sorry and correct things.

Now just because XI is like that, I am not assuming XIV will be. I do not blame the XI community, I blamed the game. The game was so intense and time draining, people didn't have time to deal with mistakes. They were too much of a setback and so people became focused and particular. They were elitists because they had to, not because they wanted to. If XIV is as casual as they say, I believe we'll see a community much more like WoW. People relaxed in playing a game, not getting frustrated trying to grind.

*=I would like to mention that I completely ignore /trade and /general in WoW. Those channels are filled with idiots and I wish Blizzard did a better job of monitoring these channels as XI was good about open channels like that. It was mentioned earlier to stay out of these channels. I believe that is the best advice.

EDIT: I do want to point out that these experiences are my personal ones, and I am not generalizing on the actual community, but demonstrating how the XI community acted in my eyes.

Edited, Oct 29th 2009 12:16pm by Gikkers
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