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#1 Nov 02 2009 at 1:23 PM Rating: Default
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will u still have to group up to lvl, or will it be like other games where u solo and do quest to lvl up (which i prefer) i hate seeking for parties all the time so it would be more fun for me. i'm gonna keep playing wow for the time being no need to keep lvling up on ffxi if i'm gonna play ffxiv. i just hope u can solo
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#2 Nov 02 2009 at 2:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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No worries, the new guildleve system will make solo leveling much easier. SE has stated they are making the game much more solo-oriented than ffxi.
Personally I think the idea of doing so much soloing in an MMO kind of defeats the purpose, but I understand the need to be able to play when you don't have hours at a time to devote yourself to the game.
#3 Nov 02 2009 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
will u still have to group up to lvl, or will it be like other games where u solo and do quest to lvl up (which i prefer) i hate seeking for parties all the time so it would be more fun for me. i'm gonna keep playing wow for the time being no need to keep lvling up on ffxi if i'm gonna play ffxiv. i just hope u can solo


Have you been reading/watching interviews, and referring to this Forum..especially Elmer's updates? That all answers your questions.
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#4 Nov 02 2009 at 6:04 PM Rating: Decent
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this would be the first day i looked into it, do u have any links i can look at?
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#5 Nov 03 2009 at 8:49 AM Rating: Good
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Nobody will be grouping or soloing to "level up".

There are no levels in FFXIV.

:p
#6 Nov 03 2009 at 1:13 PM Rating: Decent
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no levels now im confused lol
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#7 Nov 03 2009 at 2:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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The way they're setting up the game, Taz, is that the whole "leveling system" has been removed in favor of a "skill system". Instead of gaining levels, you gain skills with various weapons which, in turn, unlocks abilities the higher you are. This can be anything from special melee attacks to spells. The same seems to be true for crafting (though, skilling up in that will probably require work on the craft rather than attacking monsters).

As for whether we'll have solo or group play, it looks like they're leaning towards group play with a decent amount of soloable content for those that either don't have the time to play or those that just like to go it alone.
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#8 Nov 03 2009 at 2:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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There is another thing that might be worth mentioning, since I'm going to assume that you probably wont want to go and dig this little tidbit up. SE appears to be leaning very heavily on quest (Guildleves as they are properly called) based progression. Party play will still hold a strong place in FFXIV according the SE, but you will join a party in the completion of distinct goals, rather than the ephemeral "kill monsters until satisfied".

This is just a personal opinion - and worse, based on a 'feeling', there is very little substantiating evidence - so please do not take this as fact. However, I get the impression that SE is trying to use quests as a mode of actual weapon direct-progression, rather than side-effect progression. The difference being, in side-effect progression, you get experience (skill) for completing a quest. In direct-progression, the quest helps you to unlock abilities and progress through the story of the world all at once. But perhaps I am reading my hopes and dreams into SE's words.
#9 Nov 03 2009 at 3:39 PM Rating: Good
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I've found in MMOs that offer a viable solo path to endgame, most people just solo. If this will be the case in 14, count me out. Especially if it involves hundreds of quests or "leves" to kill 10 beetles and deliver this rolanberry pie to some lady 100 yards away and then return.

And yea, there is no "leveling up" your character per se... but you are still "leveling up" your weapon skill, which will probably control what kind of gear you can equip, and what kind of mobs you can kill... so pretty much the same thing IMO.

Edited, Nov 3rd 2009 3:44pm by xXMalevolenceXx
#10 Nov 03 2009 at 4:29 PM Rating: Decent
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well i dont need to be able to solo the whole game, parties are fun and all i just don't have hours some days to play so i like to solo sometimes. ok so i understand the skill and all but does the skill increase ur mp and hp also plus ur other stats? sorry if i don't look it up like i said don't have a lot of time sometimes so just quicker to ask questions.
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#11 Nov 03 2009 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I've found in MMOs that offer a viable solo path to endgame, most people just solo. If this will be the case in 14, count me out. Especially if it involves hundreds of quests or "leves" to kill 10 beetles and deliver this rolanberry pie to some lady 100 yards away and then return.

And yea, there is no "leveling up" your character per se... but you are still "leveling up" your weapon skill, which will probably control what kind of gear you can equip, and what kind of mobs you can kill... so pretty much the same thing IMO.

Edited, Nov 3rd 2009 3:44pm by xXMalevolenceXx


Personally I'll be partying with a few rl friends, whether solo is viable or not :). Of course we'll also always accept the random person to tag along.
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#12 Nov 03 2009 at 5:39 PM Rating: Good
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I never understand the mentality of paying a monthly fee to play by yourself. If that's your only interest, just pay for a **** site. And just like the MMO archetype we're discussing, you can do a webcam session every once in a while.
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#13 Nov 03 2009 at 9:01 PM Rating: Decent
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i said i didn't need to solo all the time. but on the days when i don't have time to group its nice to be able to solo some of ur xp and what not.
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#14 Nov 03 2009 at 9:07 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I never understand the mentality of paying a monthly fee to play by yourself. If that's your only interest, just pay for a **** site. And just like the MMO archetype we're discussing, you can do a webcam session every once in a while.


He didn't say he wanted to just play by himself all the time just that he hated partying all the freaking god **** time just for exp or rather to do anything in FFXI.
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#15 Nov 03 2009 at 9:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Tazblackferret wrote:
ok so i understand the skill and all but does the skill increase ur mp and hp also plus ur other stats?


From what little I've read here, I think the general theory is the skill you have with a particular weapon will determine what gear you can equip, and the gear will have +stats on it.

For example, say you have 50 skill in wands, maybe there is a cloth body piece that requires 50 skill with wands, that gives +60mp and +4int.
#16 Nov 04 2009 at 12:10 AM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I never understand the mentality of paying a monthly fee to play by yourself. If that's your only interest, just pay for a **** site. And just like the MMO archetype we're discussing, you can do a webcam session every once in a while.



lol, sometimes it's worth coming to this site /clap
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#17 Nov 04 2009 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I never understand the mentality of paying a monthly fee to play by yourself. If that's your only interest, just pay for a **** site.

Yet you seem to understand the mentality of paying a monthly fee to stand around a virtual city waiting to actually play the game.

I guess we'll never understand each other. :(
#18 Nov 04 2009 at 5:06 PM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
I never understand the mentality of paying a monthly fee to play by yourself. If that's your only interest, just pay for a **** site.

Yet you seem to understand the mentality of paying a monthly fee to stand around a virtual city waiting to actually play the game.

I guess we'll never understand each other. :(


I'm hoping that wasn't a reference to ffxi, because then I'm soooo going to have to own you.
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#19 Nov 04 2009 at 6:38 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
I'm hoping that wasn't a reference to ffxi, because then I'm soooo going to have to own you.

It was. I was mocking the level of gloss needed to make either of those jokes. Also, you're soooo not going to own me.

Yeah, I get that you can do other activities while waiting for a party in FFXI, but I ignored that entirely just as lolgaxe ignored that people primarily solo in solo friendly games because a group isn't feasible, not because they're **** bent on soloing. In order for either comment to work you have to ignore the full details of the situation, but that makes the comments far less humorous.

Now I've killed it. Happy?
#20 Nov 05 2009 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
I never understand the mentality of paying a monthly fee to play by yourself. If that's your only interest, just pay for a **** site. And just like the MMO archetype we're discussing, you can do a webcam session every once in a while.
One word: chafing

Edited, Nov 5th 2009 2:47pm by shintasama
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#21 Nov 05 2009 at 9:11 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
I never understand the mentality of paying a monthly fee to play by yourself. If that's your only interest, just pay for a **** site. And just like the MMO archetype we're discussing, you can do a webcam session every once in a while.



ffxi is the only one i've seen that makes u group for xp other mmo's are solo friendly as far as i've seen so your statement makes no sense
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#22 Nov 06 2009 at 5:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Tazblackferret wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
I never understand the mentality of paying a monthly fee to play by yourself. If that's your only interest, just pay for a **** site. And just like the MMO archetype we're discussing, you can do a webcam session every once in a while.



ffxi is the only one i've seen that makes u group for xp other mmo's are solo friendly as far as i've seen so your statement makes no sense


That was FFXI's 'hook'.

It was far more community based than all other MMO's.

I can see XIV being the same. All those single player MMO's (Aion, WoW) are just boring after a few days. They don't have the content of an offline game, and they aren't as entertaining as XI.
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#23 Nov 06 2009 at 8:29 AM Rating: Default
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Likibiki wrote:
All those single player MMO's (Aion, WoW) are just boring after a few days. They don't have the content of an offline game, and they aren't as entertaining as XI.

Many players would disagree with you--in fact the majority would. Calling them single player player MMOs is also wholly disingenuous.
#24 Nov 06 2009 at 11:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
Likibiki wrote:
All those single player MMO's (Aion, WoW) are just boring after a few days. They don't have the content of an offline game, and they aren't as entertaining as XI.

Many players would disagree with you--in fact the majority would. Calling them single player player MMOs is also wholly disingenuous.


This is a person who prefers FFXI, on a FFXI forum, talking about FFXIV.

Is it really that hard to see what I meant by "they aren't as entertaining"?

It was expressing my personal preference, and therefore the preference of probably a lot of other people who prefer FFXI to, say, WoW. We will like the same things.

And Aion *is* single player. It's quicker to exp solo than it is in one of the group areas. The only reason to group in the abyss is for self defence. The only recognised party areas, are instances. Which, really, don't count as you're not really partying, you're focused on a goal. There's no laid back "lol you missed your ws on that colibri, loldrk", it's "WTF YOU MISSED GTFO OF MY LEGION".

In conclusion, it's Friday. Let's have some cake.
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#25 Nov 06 2009 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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Likibiki wrote:
Allegory wrote:
Likibiki wrote:
All those single player MMO's (Aion, WoW) are just boring after a few days. They don't have the content of an offline game, and they aren't as entertaining as XI.

Many players would disagree with you--in fact the majority would. Calling them single player player MMOs is also wholly disingenuous.


This is a person who prefers FFXI, on a FFXI forum, talking about FFXIV.

Is it really that hard to see what I meant by "they aren't as entertaining"?

It was expressing my personal preference, and therefore the preference of probably a lot of other people who prefer FFXI to, say, WoW. We will like the same things.

And Aion *is* single player. It's quicker to exp solo than it is in one of the group areas. The only reason to group in the abyss is for self defence. The only recognised party areas, are instances. Which, really, don't count as you're not really partying, you're focused on a goal. There's no laid back "lol you missed your ws on that colibri, loldrk", it's "WTF YOU MISSED GTFO OF MY LEGION".

In conclusion, it's Friday. Let's have some cake.
I LOVE CAKE!!1!
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#26 Nov 06 2009 at 7:06 PM Rating: Good
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I personally started playing XI because you had to party with other players in order to progress through the game. I really hope a similar system is still going to be in place in XIV, because if it's not then I will simply buy XIII and play by myself. Granted I stopped playing XI last year due to RL commitments I never had a problem finding a party or group of people to go do something. It wasn't always what I wanted to do but to me that is part of playing a community based game.

I also am not sure how I feel about the skill point system of "leveling". I really like the job and level features of XI. Although I could do without the limit break quests as I had multiple characters.

All in all I am very excited about XIV I just hope they don't go overboard with the solo aspect of the game. Because as others have said I don't want to pay a monthly fee to play a game I could play off line for the most part.

Just my take on the subject.
#27 Nov 06 2009 at 9:46 PM Rating: Good
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I'm just going to be pointing out the nonsense; I'm sorry if this is found to be too rude.
Likibiki wrote:
This is a person who prefers FFXI, on a FFXI forum, talking about FFXIV.

This is doubly weird.
1. But this isn't an FFXI forum. Depending on the scope you were intending it's either an FFXIV forum or a MMORPG forum, but it's definitely not an FFXI forum.
2. Even then assuming this was an FFXI forum, how does that directly relate to talking about FFXIV? It doesn't connect.

Likibiki wrote:
Is it really that hard to see what I meant by "they aren't as entertaining"?

I get what you meant. You meant you and the minority of players like you don't personally find that type of game play appealing.

What I take issue with is you creating a blanket generalization that all games in that format are boring and implying that is felt by anything beyond a minority of players.
Likibiki wrote:
It was expressing my personal preference, and therefore the preference of probably a lot of other people who prefer FFXI to, say, WoW. We will like the same things.

1. Saying "a lot" is being disingenuous, because it carries the connotation of significantly higher portion than what reality reflects, a minority.
Likibiki wrote:
And Aion *is* single player. It's quicker to exp solo than it is in one of the group areas. The only reason to group in the abyss is for self defence. The only recognised party areas, are instances. Which, really, don't count as you're not really partying, you're focused on a goal. There's no laid back "lol you missed your ws on that colibri, loldrk", it's "WTF YOU MISSED GTFO OF MY LEGION".

Your mistake putting it in the same category as WoW then, not mine. WoW is not a single player game. It's an MMORPG with solo options.
#28 Nov 06 2009 at 9:52 PM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:

Your mistake putting it in the same category as WoW then, not mine. WoW is not a single player game. It's an MMORPG with solo options.



It could also be seen from the view point of a solo'ing game with MMORPG options. I'm not trying to argue, I'm just pointing out the fact that depending on the play style one is attracted to either side could be "correct".
#29 Nov 06 2009 at 11:46 PM Rating: Decent
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jegzus wrote:
It could also be seen from the view point of a solo'ing game with MMORPG options. I'm not trying to argue, I'm just pointing out the fact that depending on the play style one is attracted to either side could be "correct".

Except there are some issues.

I suppose you could technically call WoW a solo game with MMORPG options, but no reasonable person would do so. You could also technically say FFXI is a solo game with MMORPG options simply because you can farm and craft all by yourself. Both games are strong enough on the MMORPG aspect though that this is a rather ridiculous notion. Technically a spec of dust can be said to be gigantic, because size is relative, but if asked to describe the size of a spec of dust, most reasonable people will say something akin to "small." Technically if you were to punch me in the face, my face could be said to be battering your fist, but that is not very reasonable. If asked to classify WoW, most reasonable people will say it is an MMORPG, not a single player game, not a solo MMORPG, not making any special distinction--an MMORPG within the same general category as FFXI.

This is why you don't treat hyperbole as serious discourse.

Edited, Nov 6th 2009 11:50pm by Allegory
#30 Nov 07 2009 at 1:09 AM Rating: Decent
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I really don't see why you're raging so hard about Lilibiki's opinion :(
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#31 Nov 07 2009 at 1:39 AM Rating: Decent
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fandalg wrote:
I really don't see why you're raging so hard about Lilibiki's opinion :(

Not so much an opinion as intellectual dishonesty, that's the problem.

It was disingenuous to call WoW (or any of the games that play somewhat similarly, such as LoTRO, WAR, etc.) a single player MMORPG, basically an outright lie. It was also a rather flagrant lie to say that these games don't have the content of an offline game, when most have well over that by most reasonable metrics.

I just don't like when people speak dishonestly. It's a pet peeve.
#32 Nov 07 2009 at 2:26 AM Rating: Decent
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I think I'd prefer you clarify the word "players" in your initial statement of the following:

Allegory wrote:
Many players would disagree with you--in fact the majority would. Calling them single player player MMOs is also wholly disingenuous.


Are you referring to the majority of all video game players in the world? Of all MMO players? Of FFXI players? Aion/WoW players? A combination of the two? Also, your numbers ARE including the number of people that have quit said MMO's as well, right?
#33 Nov 07 2009 at 2:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Deila wrote:
Are you referring to the majority of all video game players in the world? Of all MMO players? Of FFXI players? Aion/WoW players? A combination of the two? Also, your numbers ARE including the number of people that have quit said MMO's as well, right?

MMORPG players was the intended context, and to clarify even further I mean pay to play games. the context was also in regards to those currently playing an MMORPG. I'm not sure why we would count people who don't play any MMORPG, whether they quit or never even started.
#34 Nov 10 2009 at 11:37 PM Rating: Good
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From what I can tell most people don't mind partying if they have the time. The few times I ever had a full 8 to 12 hours to play ffxi I fully enjoyed spending my day exping in several different parties. The problem is when you have a job, school, family or whatever and you start getting addicted to the game and want to progress substantially in the handful of hours you have available each night.

There will never be 100% reconciliation on this because you will always have a ton of people that can play 24/7 and a ton of people that can only work play time in between other things in life.

It is very difficult to have group play and solo play co-exist in a "perfect" way. If you can progress at a good rate by soloing, then the entire community will likely solo because its more efficient than organizing groups. However, if the solo play takes too long to progress, then half the player base gets frustrated because they feel inclined to do group play in order to advance through the game in a reasonable manner.
#35 Nov 11 2009 at 12:39 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
MMORPG players was the intended context, and to clarify even further I mean pay to play games. the context was also in regards to those currently playing an MMORPG. I'm not sure why we would count people who don't play any MMORPG, whether they quit or never even started.


Well, I would have to say that in regards to the "majority of players who play heavy solo MMO's", we can't say for certain that they ENJOY the game. I continued to play FFXI because my friends were there. I couldn't get missions done because everyone had done them and/or the level cap was too much of a pain to get a group together for. I couldn't farm decent enough funds because all the good farming places are heavily camped. I didn't have enough funds to up my crafting any further.

It really did become, as someone said above, a glorified chat program. I won't even go INTO end game. I'm sure we've all experienced that. So then, I am one example against a majority (not of a single player MMO, but an MMO in general). Can we say for certain that each player in those MMO's is enjoying him or herself? I think that some people tend to cling onto MMO's until the next good one pops up. Some people think they're having fun (feel free to discount this one if you feel that "thinking" you're having fun counts). And many people enjoy the social aspect. Some players cling to hope that the MMO's content will finally please them.

I'm starting to get long-winded. Long story short, we can't know for certain that every single player in a solo-heavy MMO (let alone a majority) feels that the game he or she is playing is still fun. Not, of course, unless we could poll every single player in an MMO for the main reasons they stay in the game (and hope that they're honest about it).
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#36 Nov 11 2009 at 1:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Deila wrote:
Allegory wrote:
MMORPG players was the intended context, and to clarify even further I mean pay to play games. the context was also in regards to those currently playing an MMORPG. I'm not sure why we would count people who don't play any MMORPG, whether they quit or never even started.


Well, I would have to say that in regards to the "majority of players who play heavy solo MMO's", we can't say for certain that they ENJOY the game. I continued to play FFXI because my friends were there. I couldn't get missions done because everyone had done them and/or the level cap was too much of a pain to get a group together for. I couldn't farm decent enough funds because all the good farming places are heavily camped. I didn't have enough funds to up my crafting any further.

It really did become, as someone said above, a glorified chat program. I won't even go INTO end game. I'm sure we've all experienced that. So then, I am one example against a majority (not of a single player MMO, but an MMO in general). Can we say for certain that each player in those MMO's is enjoying him or herself? I think that some people tend to cling onto MMO's until the next good one pops up. Some people think they're having fun (feel free to discount this one if you feel that "thinking" you're having fun counts). And many people enjoy the social aspect. Some players cling to hope that the MMO's content will finally please them.

I'm starting to get long-winded. Long story short, we can't know for certain that every single player in a solo-heavy MMO (let alone a majority) feels that the game he or she is playing is still fun. Not, of course, unless we could poll every single player in an MMO for the main reasons they stay in the game (and hope that they're honest about it).



Ok, well I know I've had a couple of glasses of wine, but I can't be so drunk as to have absolutely zero idea as to whatyou tried to say. Actually, if I really think about it, the last ~10 posts made about zero sense to me even though I triple read them. I guess at least the phrase "intellectual dishonesty" made me lol.
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#37 Nov 11 2009 at 4:38 AM Rating: Decent
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I suppose you could technically call WoW a solo game with MMORPG options, but no reasonable person would do so.



I must be unreasonable.

WoW (to me) was more like a solo game/chat room combo. The only real need for grouping are the instances.

I went 1-60 mostly solo grind. I stopped doing most quests pretty early. They were all the same. Kill # of "mob".

The pleasure is in the journey not the destination.

The grind = journey

end game = destination



Edited, Nov 11th 2009 5:54am by Nalamwen
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