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Do we really want HNM times changed?Follow

#52 Dec 10 2009 at 11:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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HNMs where only one or two people walk away with something is a no-no. However many people an event is designed to require should, in turn, pay out equally.
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#53 Dec 11 2009 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't know, I actually liked the fact that only a few good items drop, and you allot it to your LS mates based on contribution. It's more satisfying when you and 7 others help one of your LS mates get an item, and they in turn help you later on. I would feel a bit spoonfed if I got something everytime an HNM dropped, perhaps everyone should get money and a few people get items.
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#54 Dec 11 2009 at 4:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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On the other hand, it's stupid seeing some guy getting what he wants and then flipping everyone the bird the next day, quitting for RL because he achieved his "goal", or conveniently being busy/AFK when they could use them. Warm and fuzzy feelings do jack for me, personally. I'd rather get gear, cash, or in this case, perhaps some kind of stat booster since we're not running off the usual levels. "They'll help me for something I want later!" is too flimsy a pretext for lack of reward.
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#55 Dec 11 2009 at 6:11 PM Rating: Decent
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For me it was more about trust than a fuzzy feeling. It was knowing that I can trust my LS mates enough that they would never do such a thing. You just have to pick the right LS or roll with people you are more familiar with. Can't say I've had same experience as you, but I think those cases are more rare.

Most of the time, to get any item of high value, LS members had to have put in many many hours in helping out to the point that they deserved it with no strings attached anyways.
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RNG Gration solo: http://pingpongwww.livejournal.com/15532.html
#56 Dec 11 2009 at 7:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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It can be both.
A NM defeat can be rewarding for every participant and you can have sufficient circumstances that activate the social component of Multiplayer play. For example, currency systems. Foes drop tokens that can be redeemed for prizes or gil, in conjunction with a larger boss fight that drops 'loot'. Every participant is rewarded for their time and effort, but, there are also additional rewards that have to be socialized and organized around.

I say this cautiously, however.
Because I'm sure to most posters here the words "Limbus" and "Dynamis" will spring to mind automatically, and they aren't the best example of this tactic in action. Dynamis currency doesn't drop frequently enough to be rewarding for every participant, and the rewards of doing Limbus are skewed horribly in the NM drop's favor undermining the value of the currency to the point it's 'the bunk reward'.

Edited, Dec 11th 2009 8:32pm by Zemzelette
#57 Dec 12 2009 at 4:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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We'll just say I hate player run point systems because it's rare leaders properly assign point values to items and sometimes go ******* insane on requirements. Not to mention said points become useless if the group goes poof. Saying just to find new friends or a new LS isn't so simple, and starting from scratch anywhere you go if you find you don't click can get pretty demoralizing.

So, the more the game can avoid player politics, the better. Could be point systems. Could be weekly quests. Could be your pop, your drop. I don't really care. Just none of the drama of super rare spawns or super rare loot, but also no super insane requirements to appease the no-lifers just because they feel more entitled, but aren't necessarily more skilled.
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#58 Dec 13 2009 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Personally I prefer a game that's just fun to play. Rewards are nice, but when they become the reason you're playing, that defeats the true purpose of playing a game. So it'd be nice if MMOs depended less on the crutch of rewards to keep people playing, but that requires actually developing some dynamic content. Admittedly that's not the easiest task when you're trying to get years of play out of a single game, but nowadays the hardware is more capable of handling diverse content. Bit of a tangent, but just to highlight that what I'm about to say about rewards is much less important than the actual gameplay (i.e., fighting, crafting).

Rewards are really only necessary to keep people playing once the play content no longer becomes fun. That said, given some need, or at least inevitability that there will be rewards, it's very important that they are carefully constructed and not too challenging to obtain. When rewards become too competitive and difficult to obtain, it fosters a climate that reduces enjoyment for everyone, both because of the negative peer climate, and because it increases the likelihood of inducing what's called the overjustification effect. For those too lazy to google it, basically it's when getting a reward for doing something actually makes you enjoy it less.

As far as rewards go, the only really important thing is that there is some consistent feedback for your progress. In FFXI, for example, this is problematic because feedback does not match progress well. Having excellent gear is generally the standard for feedback, but having excellent gear often does not convey competence. As a result, the reward process that drives goal development is poorly reinforced. i.e., you're led to develop goals that you think you want to achieve but end up meaning very little to you.

Bottom line there is that what players need (hardcore players especially) is a game that lets them develop their personal skills, and where the feedback (e.g., level, gear, rank) matches their skill level, not hours played.
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#59 Dec 13 2009 at 7:23 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:

Bottom line there is that what players need (hardcore players especially) is a game that lets them develop their personal skills, and where the feedback (e.g., level, gear, rank) matches their skill level, not hours played.


That hits the nail on the head for me.

Every expansion needs to contain more difficult encounters, while not buffing current players.
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FFXIV - Currently Playing on Selbina Server
Name: Itachi Akatsuki (THM)
LS: UnitedBBQ

www.guildwork.com - best guildhosting site period

FFXI - Pingpong - Retired 2007
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?6988
75rng | 75nin | 75blm | working on RDM
RNG Gration solo: http://pingpongwww.livejournal.com/15532.html
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