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#52 Dec 14 2009 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
katmandu wrote:

Is it possible that he's talking about prepaid cards for time spent playing the game, rather than subscription fees? That is, instead of paying $15 a month, you pay $X for a certain number of hours of playing. I think other MMOs use this frequently as another option besides the subscription, and as I recall it was never much available for FFXI. I think that makes a lot more sense in the context of subscription fees and disc purchase, and given the numerous other quotes from developers that there wouldn't be sale of in-game items.


No, he's not talking about prepaid time cards. He's talking about virtual items that you receive after you pay real money. What kinds of items and what (if any) impact they'll have on gameplay are yet to be seen.

At some point you have to take the blinders off and try to not be so naive. You can't rationalize around greed. Wada is looking at it from the money angle, and FFXIV won't be the first game to offer in-game items for real money. Blizzard recently started doing it with vanity pets (aka items that don't give players any kind of advantage in the gameplay end of things but are otherwise kind of neat).

The primary issue is that if you're going to be a successful game developer these days, you have to focus your attention on making the best games, not the most money. The games market is huge. There will always be money to be made.

Recently an interview with Blizzard's CEO was published. He talked about gameplay.

SE's head honcho talked about money.
#53 Dec 14 2009 at 12:53 PM Rating: Decent
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having something nice which ppl dont have might cause others to be jealous.
but the thing is, purchasing some virtual items to make yourself better in a game which might seems stupid to me.

if some1 can buy a kraken club from the Money Shop for 200USD, that completely ruins the game.
if this article was not mis-translated, SE should really reconsider their point of view on this, as this is not the right way to stop RMT and gilsellers.

I dont have a good plan for SE to stop the RMT, but think about it, even if a player can purchase items from the Money Shop, you will not be able to stop someone from selling to other players.

i think they probably gonna associate the "money shop" and "pay-per-use" thing with the new announced Crysta.
for casual players, you could purchase "game hours" instead of paying for a monthly fee.
if that is associated with in game items... they better just selling items that do not have any attributes... like maybe a "Green Santa's Hat" for 2USD, while other players can still quest the "Red Santa's Hat"
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#54 Dec 14 2009 at 12:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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WoW is doing it right so far, they have the two non-combat pets, race/faction change and server transfers off the top of my head. None of which has any impact on your or anyone else's playing short of maybe Envy of the nifty Pandaren pets


If there HAS to be a shop, this is the only type of shop I would find acceptable.
#55 Dec 14 2009 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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Zemzelette really covered it from all angles. I don't have much to add.

Something I'd highlight:

Quote:
so we would like to introduce more pay-as-you-use items into the game.

"Items" is an incredibly vague term, especially in a translated interview. I'll bet there are a dozen words he might have used that could be legitimately translated into "items," and fifty more that could be translated incorrectly. He may well have said something like "services" instead of items.

Still, it sounds like the article writer at least understood it to mean in-game item microtransactions. That doesn't mean he's right.

Quote:
We thought that it would be a benefit for users, but that we wouldn’t have to charge. We soon learnt that there are a lot of people who want that kind of model

Did he just say that we demanded to be charged for services we were getting for free? Lulz.

Vaagan wrote:
If the Cash Shop items help to make the game become more convenient (e.g.: Scroll of Reraise x99 for $5, or Super-Mega-Ultra-Hi-Elixir x99 for $5), then so be it if some other people are willing to pay the cash.

I think that's crossing a line. The moment I have to stop and think, "Should I farm for three hours to get these scrolls, or should I just pay the $5? That's only like 20 minutes of work," the experience is ruined. It's no longer a game or another world.

The only kind of transactions I would find tolerable are ones for purely cosmetic items, and I would still be extremely annoyed to have them in the game. I also probably wouldn't quit over charging for services such as world transfers a la WoW, but it would still be pretty **** outrageous. Those are customer services... the kind that should be part of the arrangement between any customer and service provider.

AureliusSir wrote:

Recently an interview with Blizzard's CEO was published. He talked about gameplay.

SE's head honcho talked about money.

Are you talking about Bobby Kotick? Wada can only stay up at night dreaming about being as big a ******* as that guy.
#56 Dec 14 2009 at 1:41 PM Rating: Decent
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If this happens, it will probably only be fluff items (Hopefully >.<). Farming NMs should remain the same, but Fluff items could possibly be paid for in either a lot of Crysta/Gil, or RL money. Note that although someone's post above says something about an example of "X99 Elixer: $5", I am not for that. I mean, that's what the shops were for. With that being said, things like chocobo food, decor, holiday based items, etc. can be put in as a decent shop that wouldn't run any problems. Because those items are not really NEEDED by players, just WANTED, we won't take a large hit with something like that.

Example:
Santa Outfit (Chest, Legs, Head)- 100,000 Gil or $5.00USD.
Red Leather Chocobo Saddle (Male)-1,000,000 Gil or $9.99USD.

My point is..the option to pay with two types of currency, game, and RL, should be available if it ever happens. But deep inside I kind of feel it won't. Someone also stated that the CEO has no idea what he's talking about because he's so busy, etc etc which is quite true. I mean...that's like finding the owner of the McDonalds franchise and asking him about his store out in another country. He has a lot of stuff going on right now, and I'm pretty sure that, like stated above, he hasn't even walked in the room to see how FFXIV was doing. Wasn't rapture before he took the CEO seat, anyway?


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#57 Dec 14 2009 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
Borkachev wrote:
Are you talking about Bobby Kotick? Wada can only stay up at night dreaming about being as big a ******* as that guy.


Mike Morhaime
#58 Dec 14 2009 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm honestly not worried, don't see why everyone is freaking out. Nothing has even been confirmed and it can be a miss-translation. As you always hear from MMO Developers, nothing is ever set in stone and "we can't release that information". I would think it would fall under that category. And if a cash shop does emerge, I can't see it giving any real edge combat wise. It would be mostly aesthetic stuff or items that save time.

I remember FFXI having the teleport rings for Sandy, Bastok and Windy. I could see items like that being in the cash shop. They could also be crafted. The crafted version would be tradeable and the bought version would not. If someone buys scrolls of re-raise in the cash shop, then so what? It will have a cooldown on it and could not be spammed. There could be different hairstyle coupons, moghouse furniture, mount skins and more. On the quick topic of mount skins, I think all colors (yellow, blue, red, green and black) will be available in the main game. I would think other unique colors or skins would have to be bought if they did go that route. One example could be the armored black chocobos in FFXI. Those are just some rough ideas.

Saying that any hopes of playing this game in the future has gone down the toilet is pretty lame. It means that you had little faith in SE to begin with; so why do you bother even looking up info on the game and then toss it aside on one of Wada's thoughts. I think people are getting frustrated of waiting for a new batch of info and it's making them go over the edge =)

For now, let us all go (/follow) the walking NPC in Port Jeuno.
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#59 Dec 14 2009 at 2:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
No, he's not talking about prepaid time cards. He's talking about virtual items that you receive after you pay real money. What kinds of items and what (if any) impact they'll have on gameplay are yet to be seen.

At some point you have to take the blinders off and try to not be so naive.


I find it interesting that you say what he is and is not talking about with such certainty. Anyone else remember the "Beta key" included with FFXIII? When dealing with anything translated from another language you have to allow some margin of misunderstanding. Anyone who has studied a second language can tell you that things are almost never able to be translated literally (depending on the languages), some assumptions must be made by the translator.

I will wait until we actually see what kind of online store they offer or until we get further clarification from SE before deciding weather to call foul. And I don't think that reserving judgment until the facts are present qualifies as being naive.
#60 Dec 14 2009 at 3:48 PM Rating: Default
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“In our first MMO we didn’t set up the transaction model that well. We thought that it would be a benefit for users, but that we wouldn’t have to charge. We soon learnt that there are a lot of people who want that kind of model, so we would like to introduce more pay-as-you-use items into the game.”


I'm not really understanding where this is such a huge deal. So people who prefer transactional models get something to look forward to in FFXIV, and everyone else can ignore it. Or they may catch interest and open up their wallets for some novelty items or whatever, like I admittedly found myself doing with Shin Megami Tensei Online. When it's done well, it works.

I'm not going to pretend Wada isn't being a money-grubbing CEO, but out of the several different ways he and a portion of SE are completely disconnected from their customers, I don't see this as one of them. Maybe he's overplaying how much people want a microtransactional model, but remember that is the model of choice in Asian countries specifically, notsomuch in the West. Some of you people say you hope FFXIV will be the best most popular MMO ever and in the same breath don't want SE to expand its playerbase. Make up your minds.

Frankly, unless it's handled very poorly (in which case I'd also expect other aspects of FFXIV to be handled poorly and so this one won't stand out as a unique one), I don't really see any good reason not to include this sort of optional model. From a business perspective, there is only money to be made, and if it turns out to suck, nothing is really lost. It's just catering to a different demographic that may otherwise be uninterested, and any claims that this will take away from or somehow hurt the rest of us is based on 100% wild speculation.

All of you people claiming SE is "alienating" you by introducing an option you don't like are just as bad as the millions of Americans who insist that a public healthcare option is being "forced" on them. You're just itching to lash out at every little thing SE does and get kudos from the other Chicken Littles every time you repeatedly point out that you're probably maybe not going to buy FFXIV EVAR (see also: no male Miqo'te? SKY IS FALLING!). There are legitimate things to complain about and debate here, you don't need to inject yourselves into every thread with the same asinine psuedo-signature repeatedly just to distract the rest of us from having a mature discussion. If you're really not going to buy FFXIV, just commit to your decision, play something else, and shut up forever.
#61 Dec 14 2009 at 4:07 PM Rating: Decent
LeodegranceMCIII wrote:
Quote:
No, he's not talking about prepaid time cards. He's talking about virtual items that you receive after you pay real money. What kinds of items and what (if any) impact they'll have on gameplay are yet to be seen.

At some point you have to take the blinders off and try to not be so naive.


I find it interesting that you say what he is and is not talking about with such certainty. Anyone else remember the "Beta key" included with FFXIII? When dealing with anything translated from another language you have to allow some margin of misunderstanding. Anyone who has studied a second language can tell you that things are almost never able to be translated literally (depending on the languages), some assumptions must be made by the translator.

I will wait until we actually see what kind of online store they offer or until we get further clarification from SE before deciding weather to call foul. And I don't think that reserving judgment until the facts are present qualifies as being naive.


Because back in preschool I learned a song that goes, "One of these things is not like the other, one of these things is not quite the same..." and when applied in context to the translation, "item transactions" != prepaid timecards.
#62 Dec 14 2009 at 4:12 PM Rating: Decent
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I searched the net for about a hour, and there is only one other site I can pull up aside from this one that has that same translation.
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#63 Dec 14 2009 at 4:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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TraumaFox wrote:
Quote:
“In our first MMO we didn’t set up the transaction model that well. We thought that it would be a benefit for users, but that we wouldn’t have to charge. We soon learnt that there are a lot of people who want that kind of model, so we would like to introduce more pay-as-you-use items into the game.”


I'm not really understanding where this is such a huge deal. So people who prefer transactional models get something to look forward to in FFXIV, and everyone else can ignore it.


I doubt that something like this could just be ignored. In a multiplayer game, options used by anyone affect everyone.

The most dramatic scenario is one where you need to purchase RMT items to be effective in the game. I doubt they'd do anything that brazen, but even in a middle ground scenario where money is an alternate route to things easily available by other means, it makes for an ugly situation. Suddenly you're competing towards the same goals with people who can simply buy their way to success, and the same pressure is put on you.

The other problem with this is that the company is double-dipping. Our monthly fees are quite generous for the services they provide. If they start cutting services previously paid for by that fee and charging extra for them, that's a pretty good reason to get upset as a consumer.

Segregating the playerbase into RMT and non-RMT servers would help address the first problem, but not the second.

Quote:
From a business perspective, there is only money to be made, and if it turns out to suck, nothing is really lost.

I think there's plenty that could be lost. The FFXI community feels... strongly about RMT, and if the suits at SE aren't aware of that then they haven't been paying much attention. The developers have also been promising a forceful stance on the issue in both games. Adding something like this to appeal to a minority could do considerable damage to the game's reputation (and playability, as explained above).

Quote:
Some of you people say you hope FFXIV will be the best most popular MMO ever and in the same breath don't want SE to expand its playerbase.

[...]

You're just itching to lash out at every little thing SE does and get kudos from the other Chicken Littles every time you repeatedly point out that you're probably maybe not going to buy FFXIV EVAR (see also: no male Miqo'te? SKY IS FALLING!). There are legitimate things to complain about and debate here, you don't need to inject yourselves into every thread with the same asinine psuedo-signature repeatedly just to distract the rest of us from having a mature discussion.

Who has said either of these things? Who in this thread is behaving this way?
#64 Dec 14 2009 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
I honestly think he is talking about FF merchandise, and not in-game items. I could be wrong, but there is a ton of FF merchandise out there. I googled "Final Fantasy merchandise" and got this:
" Results 1 - 10 of about 1,250,000 for Final Fantasy Merchandise. (0.27 seconds) ". I obviously can't speak for Wada, but it is feasible.

As far as the sub payment model, it is pretty big in the Asian market. People buy units of game time (usually hours) at a set price. Then you play till your units run out and buy some more. It's pay for play really. I had to do it for Chinese Aion. Not a bad model at all if you think about it.
#65 Dec 14 2009 at 5:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wada douchebag
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#66 Dec 14 2009 at 5:52 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
Wada douchebag


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#67 Dec 14 2009 at 5:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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lulz
#68 Dec 14 2009 at 7:35 PM Rating: Good
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@Borkachev
+1 for saving me a lot of time and typing to come up with a propper, comprehensive, and polite response.

@odinpingpong
+1 for saving me two seconds to type what I really feel.

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Edited, Dec 14th 2009 8:55pm by Rinsui
#69 Dec 14 2009 at 7:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah I remember seeing that, I actually prefer that model over a monthly subscription. I'm sure some people would probably lose out from that deal, specifically people that play 6+ hours a day. Though with that type of model, I don't see how personal shops would work. Don't think it would be fair to charge people while they have a bazaar up being AFK.
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#70 Dec 14 2009 at 9:36 PM Rating: Good
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The thing that concerns me so much is how everyone seems to automatically think that this "cash shop" is going to sell high end, relevent items/gear over additional "fluff" items that aren't needed, only wanted for vanity, and/or real life collectables based around the game, its series, or other games from the company. As we all know this has yet to be confimed and there could also be something lost in translation so we simply don't know yet what they plan to do.

Some of you mention that based on how they screwed up XI they'll probably do something stupid here too, and yet also claim to hope that they learned a lesson from XI. The problem is that you aren't showing much belief in that hope when you automatically start doggin' SE when we don't even have much evidence stating what they are actually going to do.

I understand SE screwed the pooch with XI. I won't argue that. I as well hope that they learned something and will make XIV better as a result. But that also means that I'm going to wait for better information. I wish that they would release some more on-point info and less vague stuff myself but until then I'll relax, take it all with a grain of salt, and wait for better information before going off the edge.

Maybe it's because I haven't beeen a big fan from the start. I started w/VII and went from there. I have yet to play I-III, VI, and X-2 and I'm currently playing IV. Maybe that's why I'm a little more relaxed and not chomping at the bit. I guess what I'm really trying to say is to have a little faith (I know, SE vagueness makes it hard) if you were hoping for a better FF MMO. Try and wait for more concrete information to base a more sound judgment on (again, SE makes this quite hard I know).

In the end I really hope, that despite all the hair pulling tension being built up and a little compromise from everyone, that XIV is something that we can all enjoy together

Edited, Dec 14th 2009 10:42pm by Lenaught
#71 Dec 14 2009 at 9:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Any why doesn't paying $180 a year to play a game, along with the original $60 purchase price, as well as the price of expansions, justify receiving any and every "fluff" item they spend my money to make for free?
#72 Dec 14 2009 at 11:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Mykha wrote:
Any why doesn't paying $180 a year to play a game, along with the original $60 purchase price, as well as the price of expansions, justify receiving any and every "fluff" item they spend my money to make for free?


While your point is understandable it's because fluff isn't essential to the game. It's extra stuff that they want to do. I agree, it should be free and done as token of gratitude for us choosing to play their game when we have many other choices. However, should they choose to charge for certain "fluff" items, as they are not essential to the game itself, then that is also their perogative. Greedy? Perhaps, but it's also their choice. It's also your choice to buy or not to buy. Some don't mind while others do. We all differ in our opinoins, which can be good and healthy, but lets try not to sweat the small stuff too much.
#73 Dec 15 2009 at 12:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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I can't tell if this will help or hurt.

Yesterday the Crysta currency went live for Japanese club members.
The following is a Google Translation of the only info I could find pertaining to this. It's a terrible translation, and probably adding more dodgy translation on top of a debate that's already about dodgy translation might do more harm than good. Regardless, I think it's relevant to the discussion. (and who knows, maybe the more japanese savvy forum-crawlers might be able to catch something?)



Source: http://release.square-enix.com/news/j/2009/12/qb5yn91jl.html


Quote:
Square Enix Co., Ltd. (Headquarters: Shibuya-ku, Tokyo, President: Yoichi Wada, Square Enix below) are available for various payments and services to expand our online content, "Square Enix Crysta (Christa)" We started operations in the country. At the same time, community service run by our Creator "Patikyassuru" in, from today, "Square Enix Crysta" start using the paid service, began implementing the system and in our membership site and online gaming in addition will.

To introduce this "Square Enix Crysta" is a new billing and settlement system with a wallet function. "Square Enix account" at various online content and services that support, you can use a simple user registration.
As the first step today, the easy user-designed character illustrations and 3D images and how to play a variety of community services, such as creators can communicate with other characters and dress up "Patikyassuru" in the "Square Square Crysta "We have started using the paid content providers. At the same time, a free membership site, "Square Enix Members", the official shopping site, "Square Enix e-STORE", online game "Fantasy Earth Zero" in, "Square Enix account" and "Square Enix Crysta" now universally available.

Square Enix has started the game as the online shopping sites and online community management, is working actively to create new entertainment experiences that leverage the network. This "Square Enix Crysta" can upgrade the infrastructure and services by expanding our online content and the introduction of the common account, a wide range of quality content in the future / the effort to provide a wide range of services for customers We hope to promote.


1. "Square Enix Crysta" about
"Square Enix Crysta (Christa)" is "Enikkusuakaunto Square" is a common billing and settlement systems available we can get. "Enikkusuakaunto Square" management system, "Square Enix Crysta" a charge (purchase) that, "Enikkusuakaunto Square" You can make payments and purchase price for the service or item to use . ※ There is a maximum charge amount. Crysta amount of six types of charge (500 yen, 1,000 yen, 2,000 yen, 3,000 yen, 5,000 yen, 10,000 yen), and Payment by credit card, WebMoney, three types of mobile payments.
1 Crysta = 1 yen charge (purchase) is possible.

"Starting today," Square Enix Crysta "content available"
● Community Service Creators "Patikyassuru"
Into the hands of game characters, items
● free membership site, "Square Enix Members"
Buy Abataaitemu, such as
Official shopping site, "Square Enix e-STORE" in games and music CD, buy the book
● online game "Fantasy Earth Zero"
Only currency in the game, "Aube" buy


2. "Square Enix account" for
"Square Enix account" is a 2009 account of the common authentication available to a variety of online content and services provided by Square Enix group was introduced in January, anyone can register for free. In addition, purchase a separate security tokens, you can dramatically improve security in the one-time password login using billing and settlement. Are currently provided "Patikyassuru" and "Square Enix Members", "Square Enix e-STORE", "Fantajiasuzero", and "PlayOnline" in addition to a one-time use, the next square Square Group, we like to provide content for the service, one will provide an environment to access your account. (Http://account.square-enix.com/manual/jp/about.html)
Registration site: http://account.square-enix.com/regist/


3. "Square Enix Members" on
"Enikkusumenbazu Square" is a free membership site run by Square Enix. Flash games in the motif of our games and wallpapers, high-performance 3D avatars, create a profile page, where you can enjoy exchanges with other users. In addition, "Square Enix Crysta" It is possible to buy digital content, such as using Abataaitemu. The official shopping site, "Square Enix e-STORE" on CD and music video games and shopping, and also services of Square Enix, "Square Enikkusuakaunto" login ID · stays password .
Since around the 14th day in December 2009, "Square Enix Members" login ID · If you have a password, "Enikkusuakaunto Square" by doing a simple procedure to migrate to services like this can enjoy. Also, 2009 December 13, was chosen until the day your billing and settlement system "Menbazukoin" If you have said, "Square Enix Crysta" take any steps you can make your transition to one 1 Crysta Nearby coins available at the same value as before. (Http://member.square-enix.com/jp/)


4. "Patikyassuru" about
"Patikyassuru" is simply an illustration of a 3D character designed to become a user, and enjoy the interaction with other characters move freely and dress up a variety of online play in one sense a new aggregate From community character. "Square Enix Crysta" using the game of getting a valuable item for the character slots "Castle" you can play with. (Http://www.partycastle.net/)


5. "Fantasy ground zero" for
Service was launched in 2006 two month "Fantasy Earth: The Ring of Dominion," while inheriting the view of the world, reborn as a completely new style online games, games run by pot Corporation MMORPG (massively multiplayer Akushonrorupureingugemu) is. "Square Enix Crysta" can only be charged the in-game currency using Orb, you will be able to use the in-game items available only in some of the Orb. "Enikkusumenbazu Square" login ID · who use the service had been using this password, 2009 December 14, after day, "Enikkusuakaunto Square" to perform a simple procedure to move in, you can enjoy a variety of services as before. Also, "Menbazukoin" If you have said, "Square Enix Crysta" take any steps you can make your transition to 1 Crysta Nearby 1 coins are available at the same value as before. (Http://www.fantasy-earth.com/)




Note: "Patikyassuru", are the little 3d avatars SE club members can create for use on SE's website. As far as I can grasp, it's kind of like Gaia Online for the SE fanbase.

Note2: it's also worth noting Fantasy Earth is the Free-to-Play model. Although SE sold the publishing rights to Gamepot, who switched it over from the subscription-model SE was originally using to the F2P model currently in use. Likely this is what the "games run by pot corporation" is referring to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_earth_zero

Edited, Dec 15th 2009 1:42am by Zemzelette
#74 Dec 15 2009 at 12:57 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
While your point is understandable it's because fluff isn't essential to the game. It's extra stuff that they want to do. I agree, it should be free and done as token of gratitude for us choosing to play their game when we have many other choices. However, should they choose to charge for certain "fluff" items, as they are not essential to the game itself, then that is also their perogative. Greedy? Perhaps, but it's also their choice. It's also your choice to buy or not to buy. Some don't mind while others do. We all differ in our opinoins, which can be good and healthy, but lets try not to sweat the small stuff too much.


I don't think many of us have problems with paying for "fluff" items that do nothing, like the kung fu panda in WoW. We're worried about stuff that's actually useful being rmtable.
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#75 Dec 15 2009 at 2:21 AM Rating: Default
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We just have to wait for Square Enix to clarify all of this. There's nothing to worry about in my opinion since there'll be a subscription fee. The worst case scenario will most likely be the option to buy stuff like the Tidal Talisman, fashion, appearance changes, server transfers, mini expansions and things of that nature with real money. Edit:Color removed.

Edited, Dec 15th 2009 3:25am by KeeperOfTheStaff

Edited, Dec 15th 2009 5:44am by KeeperOfTheStaff
#76 Dec 15 2009 at 3:45 AM Rating: Good
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KeeperOfTheStaff wrote:
The worst case scenario will most likely be the option to buy stuff like the Tidal Talisman, fashion, appearance changes, server transfers, mini expansions and things of that nature with real money.


See...that can't be the worst possible scenario since we have already thought of worse.

Fact is we don't know what is happening and after all the crap that SE put its customers through and still does with FFXI many of us don't trust that SE will make a good choice about this.
#77 Dec 15 2009 at 3:50 AM Rating: Default
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
I don't think many of us have problems with paying for "fluff" items that do nothing, like the kung fu panda in WoW. We're worried about stuff that's actually useful being rmtable.


But there is no information in this saying that useful items will be RMT'd by SE (I know there isn't anything saying they won't be either). It's for this reason that I'm so confused about why people, who are supposedly holding hope that SE has learned (even a little bit) from their mistakes and are looking forward to the next installment of FF Online, seem to be going bonkers over this like SE sold its soul to RMT w/o any real proof yet as to what will and will/not be sold. I don't want big ticket items to be sold as much as the next guy but I'll still give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise.

Again, yeah they fouled up XI but that is a different game. They now have more experience in this field and have developed it for the PC first and will port it to the PS3 (to my current understanding). This alone should allow them to do things in XIV that they couldn't do in XI. Besides, they want to take this in a different direction than XI too.

Maybe I'm actually just being too optimistic for once in my life. :\
#78 Dec 15 2009 at 3:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Hm. I do have a lot of problems with Tidal Talisman-like stuff, since it

a) provides a real benefit
b) arguably took absolutely minimal programming effort to implement
c) is available only for a lot of money

Maybe I'm too conservative, as I actually would feel screwed?
#79 Dec 15 2009 at 3:54 AM Rating: Decent
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We just have to wait for Square Enix to clarify all of this. There's nothing to worry about in my opinion since there'll be a subscription fee. The worst case scenario will most likely be the option to buy stuff like the Tidal Talisman, fashion, appearance changes, server transfers, mini expansions and things of that nature with real money.


Please don't post in red...

Edited, Dec 15th 2009 4:58am by Poubelle
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#80 Dec 15 2009 at 4:01 AM Rating: Default
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Rinsui wrote:
Hm. I do have a lot of problems with Tidal Talisman-like stuff, since it

a) provides a real benefit
b) arguably took absolutely minimal programming effort to implement
c) is available only for a lot of money

Maybe I'm too conservative, as I actually would feel screwed?


I think for reasons like this is why it is hard to pin down what is fluff and what is not. I'd actually consider this to be fluff. It only allowed you to bypass a ship ride or a porter NPC. I don't see that as any real benefit. Obviously you, and some others, would seem to disagree and that's cool too.

In the end though I hope they change their minds about possible in game items of any type being sold, fluff or not. It just seems too easy to **** people off.

We should lite the Elmer signal to try and get a better understanding of this mess.
#81 Dec 15 2009 at 4:09 AM Rating: Good
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It isn't difficult to "pin down what exactly fluff is."

A teleport is an advantage. A non-combat pet is not an advantage.

It's pretty clear which one is fluff.
#82 Dec 15 2009 at 4:39 AM Rating: Good
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Yogtheterrible wrote:
KeeperOfTheStaff wrote:
The worst case scenario will most likely be the option to buy stuff like the Tidal Talisman, fashion, appearance changes, server transfers, mini expansions and things of that nature with real money.


See...that can't be the worst possible scenario since we have already thought of worse.


Taking into account that there is a subscription fee i speculated that it wouldn't go beyond what i typed above. I just don't think an item mall where you buy items with real money such as: weapons, armor, recovery items, success rate type items and stuff that has an impact on gameplay or the economy will ever be present in Final fantasy XIV but it could happen.

Quote:
Please don't post in red...
I won't use the color option when i type from now on. I removed the colored text from my post.



Edited, Dec 15th 2009 6:14am by KeeperOfTheStaff
#83 Dec 15 2009 at 5:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks, and... let's hope you are right!
#84 Dec 15 2009 at 7:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It isn't difficult to "pin down what exactly fluff is."

A teleport is an advantage. A non-combat pet is not an advantage.


I can't even imagine why there's any disagreement there. Being able to travel more quickly is a substantial advantage. It's not merely cosmetic. Personally I don't really even like the idea of paying for additional cosmetic stuff, but I'm a lot more tolerant of that kind of practice than I am with selling stuff that actually alters the way you play the game.

I wasn't even happy with the Ballista royale prizes they offered long ago.
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#85 Dec 15 2009 at 11:53 AM Rating: Default
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Honestly I think everyone is blowing this little interviews way out of proportion. It alwasy seems like people focus on a single sentence without taking in context of the entire paragraph.

"Wada won’t rock the boat too much, though – the shrewd accountant in him says the business model for FFXIV will be the now-traditional mix of subscriptions and item transactions, plus sales of the game on disc.

“The basic model hasn’t changed.” But he says the firm has learnt lessons. “In our first MMO we didn’t set up the transaction model that well. We thought that it would be a benefit for users, but that we wouldn’t have to change. We soon learnt that there are a lot of people who want that kind of model, so we would like to introduce more pay-as-you-use items into the game.”

I'm reading "now-traditional" as what you see now, monthly fee with a mix of server changes and race changes. There isn't a company right now that you can buy gold from or actually good armor from so it would be traditional.

As for the lessons learned part I believe he is referring to the early days of FFXI in which you had random servers and only one character per content ID. They learned through trial and error that people want server changes even at a cost. They've also learned people do like item codes packaged with SE mercandise as well as smaller DLC scenarios. If they didn't they wouldn't have sold!

Also it's funny how everyone brings up the Tidal Pendant but nobody says anything about the Harpicord included in the piano soundtrack or the in game items given to those who went to fan fest. People bought tickets for fan fest and didn't even go just to get the item, that is what started it all.

Basically it's going to be more of the same when it comes to FFXIV as said in the interview that Wada isn't going to rock the boat too much because he is a business man first and has to know were to draw the line on what consumers want and don't want. If he didn't he would lose customers and money.

Edited, Dec 15th 2009 11:08am by dyvidd
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#86 Dec 15 2009 at 11:59 AM Rating: Decent
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"Yesterday the Crysta currency went live for Japanese club members.
The following is a Google Translation of the only info I could find pertaining to this. It's a terrible translation, and probably adding more dodgy translation on top of a debate that's already about dodgy translation might do more harm than good. Regardless, I think it's relevant to the discussion. (and who knows, maybe the more japanese savvy forum-crawlers might be able to catch something?)"

This is really something alittle different. For those who are Square-Enix Members you basically get alittle Avatar with select items to customize with. When you purchase an SE game you enter in the UPC code and you get X amount of points used to purchase higher tier items. That is basically how the NA model is.

In Japan I think they are going for a more interactive experience much like Playstation Home.
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#87 Dec 15 2009 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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One the mystical third compromise hand, we could zero in on that "pay-as-you-use" moniker, and hope we're talking about fluff items.


There is another (mystical) option, if it is a bad translation (trying to think optimistically here)

Quote:
“In our first MMO we didn’t set up the transaction model that well. We thought that it would be a benefit for users, but that we wouldn’t have to charge. We soon learnt that there are a lot of people who want that kind of model, so we would like to introduce more pay-as-you-use items into the game.”


Since they're discussing transaction models, and later he mentions how it is 'now traditional' There is perhaps a slim chance that it is a poor translation and what he is referring to is Monthly subscriptions, and Pay as you use subscriptions (which is to say, hourly)

That would make sense in the context of the phrase in a few ways. First, FFXI's subscription service is a pain in the *** to set up, many people disliked having to navigate through playonline as opposed to a website. It IS standard in many MMO's to have hourly payment models in addition to subscription.

The circumspect part of course is the mention of adding 'pay as you use items into the game' and the only way I can reconcile that would be if it actually was referring to say... time cards you buy in a store.

Again, that's praying it's the 'bad translation' angle.

katmandu wrote:
Is it possible that he's talking about prepaid cards for time spent playing the game, rather than subscription fees? That is, instead of paying $15 a month, you pay $X for a certain number of hours of playing. I think other MMOs use this frequently as another option besides the subscription, and as I recall it was never much available for FFXI. I think that makes a lot more sense in the context of subscription fees and disc purchase, and given the numerous other quotes from developers that there wouldn't be sale of in-game items.


eh, i missed this post first glance through the thread D;

Edited, Dec 15th 2009 2:20pm by renasci
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#88 Dec 15 2009 at 4:31 PM Rating: Good
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Had to reply to this(sorry I don't come here often)

Likibiki wrote:
So I got a bit naughty and downloaded a new disc 3. Yeah, I know.


This is perfectly legal and is exactly what is intended by personal use. You bought and own the game but one of your discs broke. It's perfectly ok to make a copy for your own use if you own the original product.
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#89 Dec 15 2009 at 4:35 PM Rating: Default
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Those of us who have been enormous fans of the FF franchise since the days of the NES are always excited about word of new offerings from SE. Those of us who were drawn to FFXI by its association to the franchise only to feel left wanting were excited by the announcement of a new FF MMO, but the hope was always that it would take the best parts of FFXI, address the most glaring deficiencies in FFXI, and then wrap everything around a shiny new game and voila...what FFXI could/should/would have been if the developers had had a little bit more foresight.

However, there remains that old saying: "First time, shame on you. Second time, shame on me."

I'm watching these forums and other releases about FFXIV and it seems that for each detail they offer the stirs up a bit of the since-waned enthusiasm, they offer two more that make me think, "Ya, still clueless."

Will FFXIV make money? Absolutely. Will SE get any money from me? At this point, it's doubtful.


my thoughts
#90 Dec 15 2009 at 7:26 PM Rating: Decent
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I know this is speculation, but if it falls to a 'cash-shop' model, I don't like it. The reason 'cash-shop' modeled MMO games work, is they are generally 'free subscription' - so you can rationalize the 5-15 bucks of the game per month on cash-shop items a lot easier. Also, you don't have to 'pay for the game' initially.

So in this new SE model, from a 'salesman perspective' it's brilliant.

Charge for game - Check!
Charge for use of game that they already bought - Check!
Charge for items in game that become necessity - Check!

I bet if this model takes place, and 'gear' can be bought from the cash shops, SE will quickly abandon their long-valued "side-grade" gear introductions in favor of "newer gear is always better" model, since people will be far more inclined to spend on gear that is "better".

Also, this kind of points back to the theory so-very-many-people had about Micro-Expansions basically being 'cash-shop' items in disguise, to lure people in for their testing of this 'new model'.

I'm not against cash-shop entirely, it works on free-subscription games, but if they are triple-charging as sated in the original post of this thread, its total BS - talk about making me not want to play before the game even comes out ;(
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#91 Dec 16 2009 at 6:01 AM Rating: Good
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If it is translated right, I still cant see SE giving anything important in this ingame shop. It may jsut be something like what they currently have with XI, buy a necklace from SE store and you get a tidal talisman ingame to warp to jeuno. Or buy the Chocobo plush toy and get a giant chocobo to put in your moghouse. As long as the real money items you can buy are things like this and not say, a speed belt or aces helm, I really don't see any problem with it.
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#92 Dec 16 2009 at 6:18 AM Rating: Good
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you can't charge for something in a Beta product. Meaning if they were to add a cash shop, and it would be after the games release, meaning the items won't be at all essential, by which I mean the Beta testers enjoyed the game fine without it.

This is if they even add one which they probably won't.
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#93 Dec 16 2009 at 6:55 AM Rating: Default
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well i played a beta for a game that had ingame buying was a shooter and they just basically gave you threw email gifts alot of the stuff, plus **** tons of the ingame money so you could basically have your hand at anything in it. but of course at the end it is all gone:( lol. but really don't think it will be issue like lot are saying we are probably worry'ing for nothing, but at least it is showing SE and all the game companies how we feel bout even the smallest incling of a possibility of it. but i still bet they will start to add things in little by little. like that pendant they added like 4years into game play in ffx11. wont be right away if they do is my quess they will wait till we playing it and sucked into it b4 tossing in a few items here and there>< .. but again just my speculation.
#94 Dec 21 2009 at 2:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Levish wrote:
WoW is doing it right so far, they have the two non-combat pets, race/faction change and server transfers off the top of my head. None of which has any impact on your or anyone else's playing short of maybe Envy of the nifty Pandaren pets
Blizzard was pretty clear when they said they were adding in purchaseable items that NONE of them would be required for gameplay, and that they were all novelties.

I'd disagree about race change not being a gameplay change (If you like to PVP a lot, chances are one day you'll race change to Undead or Human.) but other than that, they've done a fine job of sticking to this.
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