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Give the dunes a second chance in 14?Follow

#1 Dec 17 2009 at 11:33 PM Rating: Default
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My vote.....

Please, god no!
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#2 Dec 18 2009 at 12:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Um... are you asking if I want to see deserts? I want to see a variety of different areas, so sure. =D
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#3 Dec 18 2009 at 12:39 AM Rating: Decent
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haha, not quite what I was getting at. The dunes was an area between all of the starting cities in XI where people were level 10-20 experiencing leveling in parties mostly for the first time. Lightly put, it was a noobfest filled with death, betrayal, deleveling, links, and just really bad party planning. There was one thing that made it all worthwhile though. If you could survive it, it would give a great feeling of accomplishment.. like you passed allowing you to proceed to the next step.. heading to Jeuno where the real adventures began.

It'll probably be inevitable that an area like that will exists. People will need to learn the basic party mechanics somewhere lol.
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Here are some pictures from the XI beta:
http://s1016.photobucket.com/albums/af289/Paranoidpuma/
Some cool pics of the Gigatoad and GM characters in there

Some old videos I made (Don't make fun of them, I was young at the time):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdxdzD3gNtI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3jUcsKt0E0

XI beta tester, played for 3 years, if you remember Superguy send me a PM
#4 Dec 18 2009 at 12:56 AM Rating: Good
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So...do you plan on not letting people group? Because at some point people are going to have to learn how to do it and when that happens the inevitable death and carnage will follow.
#5 Dec 18 2009 at 1:12 AM Rating: Default
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Because at some point people are going to have to learn how to do it and when that happens the inevitable death and carnage will follow.


Please read my entire post. What you stated was pretty close to exactly what I said at the end of it.

Quote:
So...do you plan on not letting people group?

Because I, above the developers of the game, has the power to do that! That's not to say that that power wouldn't have been awesome... I remember a few people in XI that should never have been invited to party no mater how scarce other party members were

Edited, Dec 18th 2009 2:20am by ParanoidPuma
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Here are some pictures from the XI beta:
http://s1016.photobucket.com/albums/af289/Paranoidpuma/
Some cool pics of the Gigatoad and GM characters in there

Some old videos I made (Don't make fun of them, I was young at the time):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdxdzD3gNtI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3jUcsKt0E0

XI beta tester, played for 3 years, if you remember Superguy send me a PM
#6 Dec 18 2009 at 1:22 AM Rating: Decent
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haha, not quite what I was getting at. The dunes was an area between all of the starting cities in XI where people were level 10-20 experiencing leveling in parties mostly for the first time. Lightly put, it was a noobfest filled with death, betrayal, deleveling, links, and just really bad party planning. There was one thing that made it all worthwhile though. If you could survive it, it would give a great feeling of accomplishment.. like you passed allowing you to proceed to the next step.. heading to Jeuno where the real adventures began.

It'll probably be inevitable that an area like that will exists. People will need to learn the basic party mechanics somewhere lol.
It won't be called the Dunes but every mmo has this place. I fully expect for 14 to have it's own version of the Dunes/Barrens etc...
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#7 Dec 18 2009 at 1:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Actually, I hope they do call it Valkrum Dunes just so I instantly know which area to avoid.
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#8 Dec 18 2009 at 2:02 AM Rating: Decent
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If transportation is as refined as I think it will be, there really won't be a place like the dunes in this game at all. The reason the dunes became the be all location is because of being the intersection point between two nations and the hub for sub job quests and the sea route to the other continent. If people can just teleport around even if in limited fashion, the likely hood of one particular spot becoming 'the' place to be will be decided more on the actual merits of the location rather than simple convenience that the dunes was. FFXI has lost the use of the dunes thanks to soloing getting easier and outpost warps being lower level.

If there are a lot of neccesary quests for advancements in a particular location or a treasure trove for weapons or something, only than will you likely see dunes 2.0. But since it seems most quests will use the guildleve system, I find that very unlikely.
#9 Dec 18 2009 at 2:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dunes was so much more fun when monsters didn't despawn. I get all teary eyed when I remember seeing 20+ dead people piled up at the Selbina zone. There was nothing like standing there watching people zone out of Selbina just to die before their screens loaded. I just wish I could go back and take screenshots. Took things like that for granted at the time.

Edited, Dec 18th 2009 3:16am by skuid
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#10 Dec 18 2009 at 2:24 AM Rating: Excellent
I want a dunes type place, mainly because I'm a *********... >.>;
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#11 Dec 18 2009 at 2:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dunes was so much more fun when monsters didn't despawn. I get all teary eyed when I remember seeing 20+ dead people piled up at the Selbina zone. There was nothing like standing there watching people zone out of Selbina just to die before their screens loaded. I just wish I could go back and take screenshots. Took things like that for granted at the time.


Speaking of which, I hope they go the WoW route for deaggro this time and not what they did to alleviate MPK in FFXI with despwns. When aggro is lost just have them walk back to the spwn location (or run I guess) and not despwn only to return back a bit later on. Id personally prefer they just do what they did before the MPK patch but the likelyhood of that happening isn't very good so between the two systems thats what id prefer :(. (I really miss the days of the crawlers nest nightmare when people brought Knight Crawlers to the entrance and watched everyone get ****** off from it.)
#12 Dec 18 2009 at 2:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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You know, there's good Dunes experience and bad Dunes experience. The good experience is where you are with a bunch of competent players and the carnage ends up being thrilling and at times, pathetic to the point of hilarity. The bad is when you're playing with people who you end up wondering how they even got the game installed.
#13 Dec 18 2009 at 2:55 AM Rating: Good
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The Dunes are always interesting, it's like the moment anybody steps into the zone on a low lvl job they forget how to party properly. I've seen I don't know how many people over the years with multiple 75 jobs do something completely ridiculous, lol.

And I always thought I was the only one who really missed pre-MPK patch, lol. Not that I ever MPK'd anyone, but it added a certain extra bit of danger to every party.
#14 Dec 18 2009 at 3:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yes! Please give us something like the Dunes again! And something similar to Crawlers Nest! I still remember loosing sneakinvis somewhere deep, deep inside while coffer-hunting, and somehow I managed to pull some guardian crawlers all the way to the central round chamber, (the one you drop down to from the Rolanberry entrance), where I finally died in the middle of 4 EXP parties. I didn't do this intentionally, and I felt really ashamed and sorry. But I almost fell out of my chair laughing.
#15 Dec 18 2009 at 6:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Speaking of which, I hope they go the WoW route for deaggro this time and not what they did to alleviate MPK in FFXI with despwns. When aggro is lost just have them walk back to the spwn location (or run I guess) and not despwn only to return back a bit later on.


Mmmm, I'd like for the monsters to walk back to the spawn locations without aggroing until they get back there too.. but only if they had the deaggro patterns they used to have. Mobs deaggro'd a lot more easily after the mpk patch for some reason.

I really don't want the deaggro pattern from WoW, being able to just run through hordes of enemys and not have to worry about the consequences at all; or being able to lose aggro simply by kiting anything, was very.. meh.
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#16 Dec 18 2009 at 7:36 AM Rating: Good
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I (until this point right now) secretly love the dunes. I like watching new players trip over themselves when they finally learn sneak attack. I love how awesome a new white mage feels just getting Cure II.

Sad that solo'ing was made so easy imo.
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#17 Dec 18 2009 at 7:44 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

Speaking of which, I hope they go the WoW route for deaggro this time and not what they did to alleviate MPK in FFXI with despwns. When aggro is lost just have them walk back to the spwn location (or run I guess) and not despwn only to return back a bit later on. Id personally prefer they just do what they did before the MPK patch but the likelyhood of that happening isn't very good so between the two systems thats what id prefer :(. (I really miss the days of the crawlers nest nightmare when people brought Knight Crawlers to the entrance and watched everyone get ****** off from it.)


Day one of Crawler's Nest: Get run over by 30 Crawlers that someone had trained to the entrance.
Day two: Bring Sneak potions. Problem solved.

Yeah, I understand trains are annoying and that people shouldn't attempt to MPK others, but the fact is with a little forethought, all of tha could be avoided.
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#18 Dec 18 2009 at 9:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I get all teary eyed when I remember seeing 20+ dead people piled up at the Selbina zone.


I don't guess I've been in the game long enough to remember those times, lol. But, I have played long enough to remember the great beach parties that no longer exist because of the RMT Gobs. It always kinda saddened me to see that players were replaced with mobs.
#19 Dec 18 2009 at 10:13 AM Rating: Decent
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The funny thing about the dunes, is that it's not a desert. It's a beach. People always seem to think of it as a desert, though. I don't know if that's because it's a poorly designed beach with way too much sand, or because of the agony that people associate with the dunes being less like a trip to the beach than being stuck in a desert.
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#20 Dec 18 2009 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Ah I remember a long time ago in Crawlers' Nest on Asura. There were two mages that aggroed the entire bottom level and pulled everything into the "secret room". I was lucky enough to survive but carnage did ensue and it was quite the experience. I miss the pre-patch days of actually having think before before you act because you were either A) too far from the zone to zone it or B) didnt feel like wiping just to get aggroed again on wake up fun times fun times.


Edited for some spelling.

Edited, Dec 18th 2009 11:25am by TheFlyingGoat
#21 Dec 18 2009 at 10:23 AM Rating: Default
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There are a few places in the world with sand dunes that appear like deserts. Like here for example:
http://www.travel-images.com/namibia109.jpg

That place is called Skeleton Coast. If you checkout the wiki page for it, there's even a mention of a rusted ship hull, sort of like the one in the dunes in XI.

Most of the areas in XI are based on real places from around the world. I haven't looked into this, but does anyone know a place (website, article,...etc) that discusses this?
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Here are some pictures from the XI beta:
http://s1016.photobucket.com/albums/af289/Paranoidpuma/
Some cool pics of the Gigatoad and GM characters in there

Some old videos I made (Don't make fun of them, I was young at the time):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdxdzD3gNtI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3jUcsKt0E0

XI beta tester, played for 3 years, if you remember Superguy send me a PM
#22 Dec 18 2009 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
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I actually liked the dunes for the most part, but when things went bad in the dunes... they were BAD.
#23 Dec 18 2009 at 1:19 PM Rating: Default
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I get what you're asking now so I'll post again.
I liked some of my experiences in the dunes, and I hope there is a universal "newbie" grouping area where people are all learning the ropes ad working together. but maybe they could make it a little easier for newbies? Still forcing them to group with high HP monsters but also very weak offensively... something along those lines. teaching them the game without kicking their asses.
personally I think for example valkurm dunes was a little early to add undeads patrolling the area lol. it's just a little brutal.

I know FFXI is not meant to be for casuals but some people just can't deal with that frustration. i think in the beginning you should be able to get in a group of newbies (it is a low level area...) and still be able to succeed. When you have a bunch of incompetent players and the environment is working against you with tons of aggro... I think it's just way too early for that at level 10 like in FFXI.

most of my memories are good but I have a lot of depressing ones too... groups never even getting started because everyone is dying just trying to get together at a camp and so forth. don't wanna see that anymore until people know a little about the game and can counter aggro and such at later levels.



Edited, Dec 18th 2009 2:24pm by Poubelle
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#24 Dec 18 2009 at 1:44 PM Rating: Good
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Mmmm, I'd like for the monsters to walk back to the spawn locations without aggroing until they get back there too.. but only if they had the deaggro patterns they used to have. Mobs deaggro'd a lot more easily after the mpk patch for some reason.

I really don't want the deaggro pattern from WoW, being able to just run through hordes of enemys and not have to worry about the consequences at all; or being able to lose aggro simply by kiting anything, was very.. meh.


Yeah thats what I meant. But than all of a sudden I can see that being exploited easily unless they go the WoW route and not have them be targettable till they return back to the spwn location. Part of the reason they decided to do despawns is because otherwise you might have mobs so far away from their zone, it would take forever for them to return and meanwhile they are just sitting there like ducks when they can't aggro. After someone loses aggro whether by logging or zoning they should have them not targettable and have them sprint. This way they still keep the danger aspect of aggro without the despawning behavior in FFXI currently.
#25 Dec 18 2009 at 2:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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I remember in early 2004 or so, me and my friends were leveling in Crawlers when a water elemental popped. We freaked out and called for help and to our utter amazement, like 20 Japanese players suddenly came out of nowhere and owned the thing, saving our lives. We were in complete awe and it was pretty cool. Smiley: grin
#26 Dec 18 2009 at 2:17 PM Rating: Good
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Ha ha, your own personal saviors, and just as quickly as they appeared they were gone....
#27 Dec 18 2009 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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i love the dunes.

It was a great entry area, beautiful and full of interesting enemies. Without chains and enemies walking back(plus random gobs walking up to your party) i'm sure everyone would like it.

don't let a few... or a lot of bad experiences ruin your fun. We would have hated any beginner party area...
#28 Dec 18 2009 at 4:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Kind of skipped most of the posts, Sorry if this is just a repeat of someone elses post.

I was a fan of the dunes, it was a great way to find out who was worth parting with and who to avoid :P I found a great party for leveling my dragoon there that got me 5 levels in one day.

Though it might not end up happening the same way this time around, the leve system might just make this type of meat grinder, guantlet area, obsolete. I suspect there will be low level group based leves that are easy enough for players to cut thier teeth on and get a feel for the grouping system before things get tough.
And if all else fails the group handycapped will still be able to solo for skills.
#29 Dec 18 2009 at 7:31 PM Rating: Decent
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The dunes was awesome the first time,and terrible. Its where we all got to be noobs. Its where we all learned how to play the game. For me me the highlands and south gusta were where I first partied starting at around 9-10,but that lasted breifly. I learned everything about what to do,and what not to do there. There will almost certainly be someplace like that.
#30 Dec 18 2009 at 8:18 PM Rating: Default
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Come to think of it. Maybe it's only terrible in everyone's minds because we had to keep re-experiencing it over and over on new jobs despite no longer being new.
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#31 Dec 18 2009 at 10:38 PM Rating: Default
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Hey I liked the dunes. I have good memories of being a noob, but I befriended many people by the time I got to dunes level. I also have a very high tolerance for bad parties and I also seem to get a lot of good dune parties.
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#32 Dec 19 2009 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
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I for one would like to see a Dunes like area (just not so freaking bright). It was a good learning experience for everyone on pt dynamics. To be honest most of my experiences were good and fun. The only bad experiences I had in Dunes was as a pld.

I took I don't know how many jobs through there and to be honest enjoyed it every time. Especially later in the game when people knew what they were doing and you would just fly through the lvls. My first time there was with some LS mates. We were in highlands because we didn't know about Dunes. Another LS mate told us we should be in Dunes and we just responded with, "Dunes, where's that?"

However, with the ease of transportation you may not have that kind of experience. We shall see.
#33 Dec 19 2009 at 2:55 PM Rating: Decent
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I really liked the Dunes. Yeah, newbs died left and right. One time a joined a Spanish party (right after the EU release), we were all level 11-13, and for some reason they thought they could take on a leech. As soon as things went south, I ran for Selbina, used Benediction (I was a WHM) and made it to the zone while the rest of the party died.

If all the zones were this much of a challenge to level in, the game would keep me a lot more interested. I'd take the Dunes over grinding off Colibri any day. Yeah, I've probably died in the Dunes more than any other place, but I had fun doing it.

Having fun isn't about being able to level in the fastest most efficient manor (that gets tedious and boring fast), its more about working together to discover ways to survive and level at the same time.

Anyway, I think so many FFXIV players are going to be veterans from the get-go from playing FFXI or other MMOs, that the noob ignorance we saw at the Dunes in FFXI won't be anywhere as bad.
#34 Dec 19 2009 at 5:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Pikko wrote:
I remember in early 2004 or so, me and my friends were leveling in Crawlers when a water elemental popped. We freaked out and called for help and to our utter amazement, like 20 Japanese players suddenly came out of nowhere and owned the thing, saving our lives. We were in complete awe and it was pretty cool. Smiley: grin
I remember those days.

I also remember that once I got high level enough, and I was bored, I would play "Dunes Defender" (or "Khazam Defender", depending). I'd just stand at the zone line Sleepga-ing trains and picking them off one by one with nukes, to the cheers of my fellow players... Because the same had been done for me!
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#35 Dec 19 2009 at 6:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Alexander had a Tarutaru Red Mage Guardian, who was always helping people out getting past Dunes. It seemed like that was the only thing he ever did.



In the early days, Dunes was the best thing to get party play started. There was an overflow of people so even the bad / inexperienced ones could get a party. It was Boot Camp and most people learned to play the game there.

Later when the number of low level players went down and solo play became more interesting for a lot longer, the glory of the Dunes faded. New players missed the original Boot Camp and caused a lot more headaches at higher level parties.

I really hope that FFXIV will have a Dunes zone, but I fear this won't be the case since Squaresoft indicated that they will offer more casual solo play.
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#36 Dec 21 2009 at 11:40 PM Rating: Good
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I remember the first time I zoned into the dunes, at this point I knew next to nothing about true game mechanics etc...and since I had for the most part easily soloed most enemies on my way to level 10 I figured the Star Bat ahead posed no real threat, much less to a full party!

Needless to say it tore us to pieces, a lesson learned indeed.
#37 Dec 22 2009 at 12:04 AM Rating: Decent
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I loved the dunes, a great place to learn about game mechanics and teach others. My first party ever taught me how to SC and it was a great experience. Also was a place where I met a very large amount of friends.
#38 Dec 22 2009 at 12:06 AM Rating: Default
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I hope its just like the first, variety of everything at start, then expansions for bigger areas.
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#39 Dec 22 2009 at 1:13 AM Rating: Decent
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I sure hope there's a 'dunes'. There's nothing greater than being able to go somewhere you know there will be noobs and show them what your level 75 character can do. Plus, if you ever played on Alexander, you can never forget Ojin, the taru whm that I saw almost everytime I leveled a job in the dunes. I seriously doubt he got any higher than 50, I only ever saw him in the dunes and I never saw any new gear. And yet, people always knew he was somewhere in the dunes offering random Raise's and a little bit of powerleveling before he saw the next shout for another raise.

Nothing is better for the community too. After leveling in the dunes, you had a pretty good idea of the people that level at the same time and pace as you. You also know which people should never get an invite to your groups.
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#40 Dec 22 2009 at 4:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Plus, if you ever played on Alexander, you can never forget Ojin, the taru whm that I saw almost everytime I leveled a job in the dunes. I seriously doubt he got any higher than 50, I only ever saw him in the dunes and I never saw any new gear. And yet, people always knew he was somewhere in the dunes offering random Raise's and a little bit of powerleveling before he saw the next shout for another raise.


I forgot his name, but he always ran (still runs? idk) around as a Red Mage in AF armor.
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#41 Dec 22 2009 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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Ahh.. Nostalgia. I've played FFXI almost since NA release and I really miss the good old days. Overpopulated servers and overpopulated zones. Now you can log on, level sync yourself a party, and then go XP. On one hand it's so much better on a day-to-day basis, but when you sit down and think to the old days and consider the game as it is now, it seems like it was so much better back then.
#42 Dec 22 2009 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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The Dunes are always interesting, it's like the moment anybody steps into the zone on a low lvl job they forget how to party properly. I've seen I don't know how many people over the years with multiple 75 jobs do something completely ridiculous, lol.

I think a lot of it is two-fold.

1. Not knowing the job you are playing.
2. Only having a handful of the tools available to your job at that level.

Between the two problems, even skilled players can have trouble properly pulling their weight if they don't adapt.
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#43 Dec 22 2009 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Garlaige Citadel best noobie zone ever. The trains that used to go to the zone were unbelievable. Parties would stop for upwards of an hour because people couldn't stop bringing all the aggro to the zone and wait long enough for them all to go back to spawn point. And I loved every second of it!

Edited, Dec 22nd 2009 3:54pm by ShawnFFXI
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#44 Dec 22 2009 at 4:39 PM Rating: Decent
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I wouldn't mind. Basically it was a place where all nations could meet up..?
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#45 Dec 22 2009 at 7:04 PM Rating: Decent
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I loved the Dunes back in 2004. The agony of it was great fun, plus everyone went through it like a rite of passage. I rather miss that part of the game. Back then we were all happy and learning. Now everyone is jaded, bitter, and clique-y.

Of course, I don't play FF11 anymore. Just waiting anxiously for FF14!

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#46 Dec 22 2009 at 9:36 PM Rating: Decent
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So...do you plan on not letting people group? Because at some point people are going to have to learn how to do it and when that happens the inevitable death and carnage will follow.


This EXACTLY.

In Final Fantasy XI, this massive carnage and death occurs at level 10-20. Lots of players who are unfamiliar with their roles get forcefully taught what they have to do correctly in what situations, or YOU DIE!

In World of Warcraft, this death occurs at the maximum level. No one parties to level up, so no one knows their roles in a group setting.

I love FFXI for killing me early, and making me powerful early, rather than WOW making you smart and powerful late-game.
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LS: Fallentrinity, SkyTrinity, Farplane

#47 Dec 24 2009 at 10:31 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
34 posts
InsideTheAsylum you took the worlds right out of my mouth. I started soon after the NA release and though I did enjoy the game all the way up to my "retirement", it was best when it was new. Everything was fresh and exciting, you didn't know what beastmen seals were for, and you put on your first subligar with a reaction of "what the ****?".



Edited, Dec 24th 2009 11:38pm by drkhume
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