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#1 Dec 23 2009 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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One of the things I have been quietly speculating about FFXIV ever since they said leveling wont be a part of the game is that you would instead be leveling your guild by doing all kinds of quests. And in the mean time as you did that you would gain skills that would permanently upgrade your character much like Ultima Online. So the best of both worlds, Open Sandbox MMO, with Hardcore level grinding to improve your guild.

I think this approach makes allot of sense since it allows you to solo to your hearts content but you would always be thinking about your guild when you did. The more you do the more you benefit your guild the stronger everyone gets and the more resources it will have. Its a fantastic way to make a group environment even though you can solo as much as you want. You would still be contributing.

I guess the only time a system like this would suck is if you were ever kicked from your guild. Well anyway I notice sometimes that before a new MMO comes out you can often learn what to watch for because Blizzard tends to be very reflexive. Warhammer online introduced the concept of large scale PVP in a modern MMO setting and I believe Blizzard Wasted little time in beating them to the punch with lake WinterGrasp.

Well if you take a look at this link and scroll down a bit. Cataclysm is expecting, guess what, a guild leveling system of sorts.

The bonuses for leveling your guild seem closer to the guild leveling in Warhammer. Perhaps this is a late feature or they didn't see it as necessary until now.

Now I realize this is just a bunch of speculation however I bet you that Cataclysm will be Blizzards answer to counter FFXIV. To bad Blizzard never bothered to add a Campaign system to WoW for I would enjoy that very much lol...

edit: Also, An open Sandbox MMO like Ultima Online with a really intricate, versatile, guild leveling system would be an extremely fresh experience. It would be quite an amazing thing to see in action.

Edited, Dec 23rd 2009 2:24pm by thorazinekizzez
#2 Dec 23 2009 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
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There are a few MMOs that are adding some form of guild leveling, Aion being the most recent, I believe. However, I'm thinking that if they make being in a guild too central to the gameplay in FFIV, then it will turn alot of FFXI fans off.

One of the nicest things about the linkshell system is you can unequip it and equip another shell. Being able to exit a shell too cool off has prevented a lot of heated conversations from blowing up, in my experience. It also allows people to join the shells that are doing certain activities without having to give up doing activities that the particular shell does not want to do. Similarly, you are not forced to run with a linkshell that is doing an event that you have no interest in just because that's what the shell is doing. And sometimes you just want to play and not deal with a linkshell at all.

If the guild system in FFIV is dependent on players developing it as it seems, then it likely won't be possible to be members in more than one, and that advantage goes away. You might argue that making guild members more dependent on each other helps to build group dynamics, but I've never seen a game with more group dependency and dynamics than FFXI, and it is the one that gives you the greatest freedom of any MMO I've seen when it comes to guild membership. I suspect there's a connection there.
#3 Dec 23 2009 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Well an open sandbox MMO would feel more like EVE or Ultima online. Your right it would be a drastic change. However it would also separate this MMO from the WoW style of play. I agree though, changing link-shells was important in FFXI but so would having a decent customizable filter system for various chat channels wouldn't you agree?

I think one of the things that many people in the MMO industry, including Blizzard themselves, have been saying that in order to beat or compete with WoW you have to make something that is not like WoW. An Open sandbox MMO would be one way to do it. You would end up with a much more political game that is for sure. Considering that a blacksmith really would be just as important a class as a warrior in that style of environment because everything would be more about dealing with people and collecting resources. Allot of your time would be spent crafting things to raise your guild level ect.
#4 Dec 23 2009 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Thora: I can see what you are saying, the only issue I have is that it will cause issues in which one member of the guild has done more leveling than another and how do you balance that out? In WoW you have problems in guilds now where people that put more gold or items into the Guild Bank are peeved at folks that just take things out. Same sort of deal with a leveling system for your virtual communities.
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#5 Dec 23 2009 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
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It seems counter productive for SE to rid players of levels and experience, replacing it with skills and such gained from weapons, only to add the same system to your guild.

Personally I find guild levels and such systems to be no more than gimmicks meant to excite players but add nothing of substance.
#6 Dec 23 2009 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Personally I find guild levels and such systems to be no more than gimmicks meant to excite players but add nothing of substance.


You just somehow managed to describe 99% of currently released MMO's

And people always fall for those gimmicks. Funny.
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#7 Dec 23 2009 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Moonkissed wrote:
Thora: I can see what you are saying, the only issue I have is that it will cause issues in which one member of the guild has done more leveling than another and how do you balance that out? In WoW you have problems in guilds now where people that put more gold or items into the Guild Bank are peeved at folks that just take things out. Same sort of deal with a leveling system for your virtual communities.


Its possible that the system would need to be more advanced than WoWs guild system. I cant imagine it working in such a way where it would be ultra political either. But all of the problems mentioned above can be solved in various ways and if the system is completely different then the old problems we know from WoW guilds might not even apply anymore. What if your nation is a "guild".

Did you ever feel cheated when your nation did particularly well in campaign?
What about when the astral candescence was taken back from the beastmen hord? Was that not an example of one side winning a conflict vs another where everyone reaps the benefits?

I just have this gut feeling with the way the class system includes gathering and crafts as main classes rather than just "professions" and the mentioning that you will not be leveling then FFXIV definitely seems lean more toward an open sandbox style world.

Yogtheterrible wrote:
It seems counter productive for SE to rid players of levels and experience, replacing it with skills and such gained from weapons, only to add the same system to your guild.


IMHO to me its still the same thing in the base sense. You are still leveling up a skill instead of a job. It was like that in Ultima Online. The advantages would be remarkable though in that there would not need to be a form of level sync. Everyone always gains skill no matter what they are doing.

Without levels then Monsters would scale in a much more realistic fashion too. Rather than paying attention to what level everything is that you are fighting you would be paying attention to what you are fighting. A Dragon will always be a dragon for the most part right?

One of the really odd things about a system with no levels and only skills is a greater potential for some decent PVP since open sandbox style games tend to be much more even in terms of PVP combat. Though I don't really know if I want PVP in this style of game it is an interesting point.
#8 Dec 24 2009 at 7:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Thor: I see what you are saying. I guess I need to think a bit more outside the box on this one. I can dig that.
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#9 Dec 24 2009 at 8:34 AM Rating: Decent
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They mention in the guildleves section on the main page that leveling up your guild will allow access to harder to reach locations in the world. They say forbidden locations in some cases. Instances perhaps?

interesting...
#10 Dec 24 2009 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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I wouldn't mind some kind of system where guilds had a reputation with the cities, better rep ment minor discounts from NPCs and access to some leves within the city, that other guilds might not get if they don't work for the rep.

Perhaps public transorpt from that city will even take you to more places.
#11 Dec 26 2009 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent
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zurinadrg wrote:
I wouldn't mind some kind of system where guilds had a reputation with the cities, better rep ment minor discounts from NPCs and access to some leves within the city, that other guilds might not get if they don't work for the rep.

Perhaps public transorpt from that city will even take you to more places.


Ill have to take a look again but I believe that transportation options are a part of your guilds ability. Reminds me of a more generous version of the out post warping system. Once earned everyone in the guild can partake.
#12 Dec 26 2009 at 9:35 PM Rating: Good
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when you say GUILD do you mean the group of people you play with?

or GUILD as in GUILDLEVES which appears to be a system in place to make custom adventures similar to assault in FFXI?

I think GUILDLEVES will be our way to track character progress. You take on a guildleve that is tailored for a "swordmaster" you finish the quest and you rank up your guildleve and become a little more proficient as a swordmaster.

The Guildleve system further explains that you'll be able to mix and match differnt Leves to customize what type of mission or adventure we will partake in.

I don't however think we'll be doing quests solo or grouped to level our linkshells or the equivalent.
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