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Summons, they do exist!Follow

#1 Dec 24 2009 at 9:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Ifrit:
http://cache-foo-08.gawkerassets.com/gawker/assets/images/9/2009/12/ss16.jpg
http://cache-foo-05.gawkerassets.com/gawker/assets/images/9/2009/12/ss5.jpg

Bahamut (Maybe):
http://cache-foo-07.gawkerassets.com/gawker/assets/images/9/2009/12/m008.jpg
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#2 Dec 24 2009 at 10:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Makes me nervous, I don't like summons as just bad guys or allusions.
#3 Dec 24 2009 at 11:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Dude... no. No way in **** they'll make summons that big, first. Second, I highly doubt you'll be able to summon Bahamut. Third, that doesn't look anything like Ifrit.
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#4 Dec 24 2009 at 11:01 PM Rating: Decent
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The first looks more like a balrog rather than Ifrit.

Also, all three look like cut scenes, not game play.

Hard to call summons based on this information.


HOWEVER, that being said, summoning is like THE Final Fantasy flagship ability throughout all the games. I can't see how they would possibly skip over it for FF14. Might not be in release (it wasn't for FF11), but I believe it will be there somehow, someway.

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#5 Dec 25 2009 at 3:55 AM Rating: Decent
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****, very **** pics.
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#6 Dec 25 2009 at 5:19 AM Rating: Default
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Your 'Ifrit" screenshots = maybe. Ifrit will exist in the game but he doesn't necessarily have to be a summon. But it's possible. As for him being too huge; remember that the actual summoned Ifrit could be smaller than the Ifrit boss you must defeat to obtain it.

Your 'Bahamut' screenshot = no chance. Just a dragon.
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#7 Dec 25 2009 at 5:57 AM Rating: Good
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Hard to call summons based on this information.


Just because there are summons in the game, doesn't mean they'll be summon able by adventurers. Smiley: wink2
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#8 Dec 25 2009 at 6:10 AM Rating: Decent
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That's just an undead dragon :(
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#9 Dec 25 2009 at 6:27 AM Rating: Good
According to what we've learned recently, the beastmen have godlike beings that they can invoke, so that's more likely than these being summoner summons.
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#10 Dec 25 2009 at 9:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah that's what makes me worried. Though anyone else think we now have some clue towards the term for "summons" in this game? Just judging from the new information added...

Quote:
It is nigh on ten years since the fearsome beings known as the primals first appeared in these lands. Ten years since they were summoned forth by the destructive ambition of the beast tribes. Ten years, and still those tribes, drunk on the power granted them by the primals, continue to wreak havoc upon the free peoples of Eorzea.


Of course this is all speculation, but that plus using a screenshot that looks very much like Ifrit for the background leads me to believe that summons will be called "primals" in XIV.
#11 Dec 26 2009 at 11:35 AM Rating: Excellent
Tanaka did say at Gamescom that there were currently no plans for a specific Summoner class, but the summons themselves (or whatever they end up calling them) would be important to the storyline of FFXIV.
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#12 Dec 26 2009 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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Sounds kind of like enemy summoners that we have to defeat. Even if we don't get an actual summoner job class, it sounds like kind of cool lore to have primal tribes summoning forth Ifrit and Shiva to impart destruction on Eorzea (sp?) for us to stop.
#13 Dec 26 2009 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm really positive the thing in the first screenshot is one of the Banzoku summons. Look at the thing that is summoning it. That's green, nasty skin, not armor. It's totally a Banzoku, and it scares me. (Whether the summon is actually Ifrit or not, well, who knows...)
#14 Dec 26 2009 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
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SE wrote:
It is nigh on ten years since the fearsome beings known as the primals first appeared in this land. Ten years since they were summoned forth by the destructive ambition of the beast tribes. Ten years, and still those tribes, drunk on the power granted to them by the primals, continue to wreak havoc upon the free people of Eorzea.


It's almost certain that the giant fire monster is one of these primals, and it's likely that the dragon is too. They are indeed summons, they might even be new iterations of our old favorites, but it's far more likely that we'll fight them as bosses than we are to control them ourselves.

Running off of that, I'd speculate that if they ever did release a summoner player class, it would consist of weaker "primals" or perhaps a rival group of entities.
#15 Dec 26 2009 at 5:38 PM Rating: Decent
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If you guys havent noticed yet I suggest looking more closely at the disciplines system.

Summoning could very easily be a part of the Discipline Of Magic catigory. For example when you look at the Disipline of war it shows various melee combat classes

Archer / RNG
Lancer / DRG
Gladiator / WAR or maybe PLD
Marauder / THF
Pugilist / MNK

Disciples of magic and land are both blank at the moment.
But given the example a Disciple of magic could be any of these.
WHM
BLM
RDM
SMN
SCH
DNC
PUP
BLU
BRD

Anything I am missing?

Its also entirely possible that they have combined some classes together such as thf and cor.
If you think about it a Pugilist might have the option of having a puppet or a Gladiator could have the ability to charm pets. Its hard to say how many skills each class will have and how they will be organized until we get our hands on the game.

Edited, Dec 26th 2009 6:46pm by thorazinekizzez
#16 Dec 26 2009 at 6:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Should have mentioned Leviathon too. I think it was the first trailer where he could be seen coming out of the water over the boat.
#17 Dec 26 2009 at 8:15 PM Rating: Good
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or it was a giant sea monster
#18 Dec 26 2009 at 8:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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or it was a giant sea monster


Hold on let me see if I have tree-fitty!

Seeing how CoP and ACP turned out, I do hope we get a Summoner class.
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#19 Dec 26 2009 at 9:27 PM Rating: Decent
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http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbadvance/file/560436/21966


Do some of those jobs look familiar?

(job list from the tactics advanced).

Couple of the moogle classes probably not, but take a gander at the skills and spells list from this game. The Illusionist, Summoner, Elementalist, Morpher, Beast Master and Sage may all either be part of the classes o end up having similar skills of those classes in the game as that end up being in the desciples of the land.

The idea behind those is that they have skills relating to the enemies and elements of the land, and I think that may be part of the gathering discipline, being able to tame monsters, use magic relating to the land, like aero.

Or even being able to change into different types of beasts. That would be fun for exploration and gathering :D.
#20 Dec 27 2009 at 5:13 AM Rating: Default
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If they couldn't get Summoner right in XI, and XII, but got it in X, the question is more about if SE dares backtrack to the good days, or if they'll keep trying new things and fail.

I'd rather they don't include Summoners at all in XIV than they attempt something new that obviously won't work.
#21 Dec 27 2009 at 5:53 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Disciples of magic and land are both blank at the moment.
But given the example a Disciple of magic could be any of these.
WHM
BLM
RDM
SMN
SCH
DNC
PUP
BLU
BRD


PUP and BRD aren't mage classes.

Quote:
If they couldn't get Summoner right in XI, and XII, but got it in X, the question is more about if SE dares backtrack to the good days, or if they'll keep trying new things and fail.


SMN from FFXI was pure win. FFXII left something to be desired but was still relatively cool. The FFX summon system was one of the most basic summon systems in the FF series. I have no idea why it's held up as the best one when it's sub-standard to FFIII or FFVI and yes, even FFXI.

/rant
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#22 Dec 27 2009 at 5:56 AM Rating: Good
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BRD aren't mage classes.


What is a Bard? A miserable pile of secrets?
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#23 Dec 27 2009 at 6:09 AM Rating: Decent
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What is a Bard? A miserable pile of secrets?


To answer this I must first get so drunk that my brain is damaged enough to answer it...

/uno momento


...


oS, faftah oreadng qestion me sez taht BRRRRD ees not magik ror meleeeee but insatead be support.
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#24 Dec 27 2009 at 6:16 AM Rating: Good
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oS, faftah oreadng qestion me sez taht BRRRRD ees not magik ror meleeeee but insatead be support.


In that case, whm isn't a mage either.. it's a healer. rdm can't be mage.. since it's an enfeebler, healer and support.

As far as SE goes, they considered bard to be mage (songs werent't listed under "magic" for no reason!)
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#25 Dec 27 2009 at 6:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Actually, Bard doesn't consume MP when singing/playing songs.

No mana = Not a mage.

EDIT: Actually sorry... I'm just in a foul mood and starting typing before I had calmed down haha. Ignore me~ yeah... good good.

Merry xmas.

Edited, Dec 27th 2009 12:29pm by ChelseaSMN
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#26 Dec 27 2009 at 7:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Mana=mage... Yes songs are listed under magic, but so is ninjutsu and i'm sure you wouldn't consider NIN to be a mage...
#27 Dec 27 2009 at 8:20 AM Rating: Good
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I'm sure SMN will appear in XIV at some point. I can't think of a FF game that doesn't have summonable monsters in some form.

Maybe they just couldn't find a way to make it work, or are waiting to see how existing classes fit in before announcing new jobs.

Remember, we don't know how many classes there are yet. I think we have the 5ish crafting classes, and 5ish normal classes that we know of.

They may only release 5 more fighting jobs at launch. That still makes 15 classes for us to play with, which is more than enough for a brand new MMO in my opinion.
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#28 Dec 27 2009 at 8:30 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I'm sure SMN will appear in XIV at some point. I can't think of a FF game that doesn't have summonable monsters in some form.


Just wondering, can anyone confirm for sure that every Final Fantasy has had some sort of summoning? I know you can usually unlock a boss to summon (or a certain character was a summoner, or you could become a summoner, etc.) but I can't remember if any didn't include this. I think all the FF titles do except maybe Crystal Chronicles, spinoffs etc
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#29 Dec 27 2009 at 8:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Mana=mage... Yes songs are listed under magic, but so is ninjutsu and i'm sure you wouldn't consider NIN to be a mage...


If Ninja's were all about ninjutsu, they would be mages.. but it's more of a gimmick than anything. Paladin's aren't considered mages now are they?

Quote:
Maybe they just couldn't find a way to make it work, or are waiting to see how existing classes fit in before announcing new jobs.


Exactly. Pet jobs have always been problematic for developers (not just Square), so instead of releasing a pet class right at the start of game when the developers aren't sure about how even the current classes will be used (players tend to find out different approaches to seemingly obvious features), they decided to wait and see how the classes turn out. That way it's much easier to create a balanced pet class that's not either too overpowered nor gimp.



Edited, Dec 27th 2009 5:44pm by Hyanmen
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#30 Dec 27 2009 at 11:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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You guys are making me feel old. :p
Summoning magic wasn't around until FFIII.
It essentially got the boot in X-2 for storyline reasons, but the spin-offs tend to keep them on rather religiously.

On the one hand, I tend to like Summoners in most other Final Fantasies.
On the other hand, I could not have been more unhappy with XI's Summoner.

Granted, I played it before the time of the lower-level avatar fights, smn burn, scholar, split bloodpacts, and favor; so I'm speaking of the dark days. Still, however favorable the outlook may seem currently, I can't determine what's the result of genuine education and what's end-of-the-road customer gratification. It's not abnormal for an MMO company to dangle some cookies along with those carrots just to ensure playerbase retention when a product is in it's winter.

If SE can pull it off, and pull it off well, I think some form of summoning would be nice. But, if they can't, or even if they aren't sure if they can, I'd prefer they stayed the deities of our foes.

Edited, Dec 27th 2009 1:02pm by Zemzelette
#31 Dec 27 2009 at 12:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I might be sorely mistaken but I recall reading not too long ago that smn got a pretty sizable boost. Your summons actually provide party buffs or some such right?
#32 Dec 27 2009 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Well when talking in terms of the classes FFXIV is going to have just remember it's related to equipment. Equip a staff and you can cast black magic, equip a wand and you get white magic, toss on a shield and you're a pld.

If going off of the know weapons in FFXI here is the list;

Axe = Beastmaster
Great Axe = Warrior
Sword = Paladin
Staff = Black Mage
Wand = White Mage
Dagger = Thief
Scythe = Dark Knight
Great Katana = Samurai
Katana = Ninja
Lance = Dragoon
Bow = Ranger
Fist = Monk
Gun = Corsair
Book = Scholar
Animator = Puppermaster

When talking about what job is and isn't we need to remember in terms of equipment too.

As far as summons go, I would like it to be like older Final Fantasy. I would like to see summons replace the 2hr ability. In other words every job has a class specific summon that comes out, cast buff on individual/party, damages monster, then goes away and can be resummoned in 2 hours.
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#33 Dec 27 2009 at 2:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Axe = Beastmaster
Great Axe = Warrior
Sword = Paladin
Staff = Black Mage
Wand = White Mage
Dagger = Thief
Scythe = Dark Knight
Great Katana = Samurai
Katana = Ninja
Lance = Dragoon
Bow = Ranger
Fist = Monk
Gun = Corsair
Book = Scholar
Animator = Puppermaster


Great Sword = GM/sometimes DRK

Seeing this list, I wonder if we'll have a class that actually uses GS as a main. I think we're long past the age of Cloud Strife/Dante wannabes so it won't be so bad.
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#34 Dec 27 2009 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
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RaideLeonn wrote:

Great Sword = GM/sometimes DRK

Seeing this list, I wonder if we'll have a class that actually uses GS as a main. I think we're long past the age of Cloud Strife/Dante wannabes so it won't be so bad.


I bet 1000 gil with you right now that there will be plenty of xXSeiphorothXx in FFXIV regardless of great sword as a main weapon lol
#35 Dec 27 2009 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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I bet 1000 gil with you right now that there will be plenty of xXSeiphorothXx in FFXIV regardless of great sword as a main weapon lol


You're on!
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#36 Dec 27 2009 at 4:19 PM Rating: Decent
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thorazinekizzez wrote:
I might be sorely mistaken but I recall reading not too long ago that smn got a pretty sizable boost. Your summons actually provide party buffs or some such right?


The problem is that Summoner suffer from too many penalties.

Their advantages are the following:

Safe from getting hit.
Can fight without giving TP.
Can fight without gaining TP.

The problem is that these usefulnesses disappear fast.

What use is there in not getting hit if others are getting hit and the healer uses curaga? Same MP cost for healer, so there is no gain from this ability in a party setting.

What use is it to not feed TP if there is any other party member already doing so? This also looses all benefit in a regular party.

Fighting without gaining TP? Well, good in same situation as above. On monsters you have no other jobs dealing damage.

So take any random event and you are almost guaranteed to have no benefit from SMN only benefits.



Then there are the penalties.

Perpetuation.
Mana costs.
Global timers.
No resting.
Short buff durations.
Weak buffs.
Split on avatars so you never have access to all spells.
While a BLM pays MP for damage that can be resisted, SMN pays MP for damage that can completely miss.


Overall in any situation where you are playing Summoner, you'll be facing multiple of these penalties. Which is the whole problem with Summoner.



Imagine a SMN who paid ZERO MP for BPs, but still had a global BP timer. That would be roughly as unbalanced as allowing THF to SA from any direction. (Which really never was any big problem, SE just thought it was more correct to sneak attack from behind)

Imagine a SMN who paid MP for Wards that actually lasted 5 min each and had semi-decent potency. That would be like playing BRD, but have your songs last longer because you paid MP.

Imagine a SMN who could have a pet out doing nothing, and it had no perpetuation during this time and you could rest. No balance problem there either.


There are dozens of ways to make SMN less awkward and terrible without even nudging on balance. Question is why SE allows the job to stay at the bottom for so long, but then they haven't shown much skill at improving BST either.
#37 Dec 27 2009 at 4:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Hey Mellowy.

Most game companies worth their salt would have responded to your complaints years ago. I know its hard to balance a game around listening to the vocal minority but in the case of smn they really haven't been paying much attention. Lets hope that this kind of carelessness is not repeated in FFXIV.

I haven't played in about a year though so my question was if they did buff smn since the last time I played. I suppose, if they did, judging by the tone of your response that the adjustment was not sufficient.
#38 Dec 28 2009 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm having trouble figuring out where the resemblance to Ifrit is in this pic. Is it just because it has some red~ness around it and has horns? Ifrit never even once crossed my mind with that pic until you mentioned it, and I still dont see it...
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#39 Dec 28 2009 at 3:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
If going off of the know weapons in FFXI here is the list;

Axe = Beastmaster
Great Axe = Warrior
Sword = Paladin
Staff = Black Mage
Wand = White Mage
Dagger = Thief
Scythe = Dark Knight
Great Katana = Samurai
Katana = Ninja
Lance = Dragoon
Bow = Ranger
Fist = Monk
Gun = Corsair
Book = Scholar
Animator = Puppermaster


My money is on Beastmaster getting a whip this time around like in the earlier versions.
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#40 Dec 28 2009 at 4:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Arestia wrote:



I'm having trouble figuring out where the resemblance to Ifrit is in this pic. Is it just because it has some red~ness around it and has horns? Ifrit never even once crossed my mind with that pic until you mentioned it, and I still dont see it...


When you take it in context the similarities becomes much clearer. Watch the video and check out some of the newer screenshots on the official site. There's even one where he/it is featured with a giant ball of flame, reminds me of one of Ifrit's signature attacks.

EDIT: Looking around at other sites people have mentioned something I hadn't noticed at first. The creature summoning Ifrit (if it is him) is using a staff with horns like the summons and embedded with two red gems. Perhaps a little peak into what we can expect with the new weapon system. It'd be nice to see weapons with designs that play off the skill or magic they teach.

Edited, Dec 28th 2009 5:39pm by Redyoshi
#41 Dec 28 2009 at 5:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't see how everyone is still referring to FFXI classes while talking about FFXIV... Ninja, beastmaster, dragoon...etc.

There will be an Archer, Lancer, Gladiator, Marauder, Pugilist. We don't know about the mages yet. And no, Lancer =/= Dragoon, Marauder =/= Warrior...etc...

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#42 Dec 28 2009 at 5:53 PM Rating: Decent
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The classes are likely to grow over time, and I highly doubt a summoner class will be available. The summons sound like more of a protector over different groups (one per group) for the beastmen. I assume it is the same for the players. I would love to see a summon for each faction in the game... so your race/faction choices determine summon choice as well. They would be great help for soloing if any class could use them, and soloing seems to be more pushed for by SE this time.

I am hopeful for some ninja/samurai type of class, a time/red mage support class, and a death knight type of class in the launch.
#43 Dec 28 2009 at 9:59 PM Rating: Good
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thorazinekizzez wrote:
Hey Mellowy.

Most game companies worth their salt would have responded to your complaints years ago. I know its hard to balance a game around listening to the vocal minority but in the case of smn they really haven't been paying much attention. Lets hope that this kind of carelessness is not repeated in FFXIV.

I haven't played in about a year though so my question was if they did buff smn since the last time I played. I suppose, if they did, judging by the tone of your response that the adjustment was not sufficient.
Yeah, they have been buffed since you left, but anyway, Mellowy is definitely one of those vocal minorities. At least on my server, SMN's are ******* amazing. I've literally asked people to change from apparently "more useful" jobs to SMN because SMN is more useful for some fights, and the list isn't small.

Infact, I'd like my LS to have more SMN's. There is simply so many opportunities that are made pathetically easy by throwing more SMN's at it. I can think of many times where we were down and out, and a smn or two have held onto a monster for a long time - or even killed it - where the apparently better jobs failed.

Despite Mellowy's carefully negative comparison of SMN's "advantages vs penalties", Summoner in XI isn't a bad job. Maybe it was back in the days of only one blood pact per minute, but now days it's a sick job. There is a ls called AstralFlow on my server that is literally all SMN's, and they get amazing stuff done considering they literally just throw pure smn's at a fight. Sure a lot of it is due to the amazing-ness of Astral Flow but that is a part of the job afterall.

SMN = awesome. Dunno why alla smns seem to be self-loathing, maybe it's just other servers opinions on them, but on Unicorn we love them.
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#44 Dec 29 2009 at 3:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Redyoshi wrote:
Arestia wrote:



I'm having trouble figuring out where the resemblance to Ifrit is in this pic. Is it just because it has some red~ness around it and has horns? Ifrit never even once crossed my mind with that pic until you mentioned it, and I still dont see it...


When you take it in context the similarities becomes much clearer. Watch the video and check out some of the newer screenshots on the official site. There's even one where he/it is featured with a giant ball of flame, reminds me of one of Ifrit's signature attacks.

EDIT: Looking around at other sites people have mentioned something I hadn't noticed at first. The creature summoning Ifrit (if it is him) is using a staff with horns like the summons and embedded with two red gems. Perhaps a little peak into what we can expect with the new weapon system. It'd be nice to see weapons with designs that play off the skill or magic they teach.

Edited, Dec 28th 2009 5:39pm by Redyoshi



I still think it's this guy:

http://www.rpgfan.com/features/ffxi_tour/ffxi_tour-14b.jpg

It's has a fat humanoid form with horns. If you look at the ffxiv pictures in the bottom middle you'll a skinny bone structure going into the pelvis region, which those dragons have and not Ifrit.
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#45 Dec 30 2009 at 5:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Oooh. It'd be cool if they got ore into Greek mythology, and included Hades, Apollo, and a bunch of others.

Although, summoning Athena would probably be used the most if it was a summon, knowing a lot of nerds love it when there are hot in-game characters/summons.
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Spiderpalm, level 32 Undead Warlock of the server Lightbringer.
#46 Dec 30 2009 at 7:54 PM Rating: Decent
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2,890 posts
Izaacpaul wrote:
Oooh. It'd be cool if they got ore into Greek mythology, and included Hades, Apollo, and a bunch of others.

Although, summoning Athena would probably be used the most if it was a summon, knowing a lot of nerds love it when there are hot in-game characters/summons.


I really try not to think about the names of the summons too much in the FF universe. Allot of them are really not even remotely accurate to their namesake. Shiva for example is supposed to be a man and he does not do ice damage lol.. They pull from allot of things though but IMHO with Greek mythology its even harder for me separate the in game mythology vs the the actual mythology for some reason.

I guess even still calling Zeus to do tons of lightning damage sounds pretty cool. I always thought that Ramuh was supposed to be Zeus but that is apparently Hindu inspired.

And on another Quick note about speaking of FFXI jobs. If you prefer we can just talk about various previous final fantasy games that have the same classes. FFV had the full blown job system that IMO gave the most direction to the design of FFXI. Marauder is actually a rogue class or THF, if you will, and I would not be surprised if it has a sneak attack and all of its other staples such as "mug" and "steal".

But only time will tell right :)
#47 Jan 02 2010 at 6:57 PM Rating: Decent
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102 posts
Quote:
Tanaka did say at Gamescom that there were currently no plans for a specific Summoner class


Oh ho hoho..... they say that now, but when I get done with SE I think they'll have changed their minds

/does whatever it takes to have summer as a unique playable class
/fixes the previous statement to say, "..Does pretty much whatever.."
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Here are some pictures from the XI beta:
http://s1016.photobucket.com/albums/af289/Paranoidpuma/
Some cool pics of the Gigatoad and GM characters in there

Some old videos I made (Don't make fun of them, I was young at the time):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdxdzD3gNtI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3jUcsKt0E0

XI beta tester, played for 3 years, if you remember Superguy send me a PM
#48 Jan 03 2010 at 12:37 AM Rating: Good
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743 posts
thorazinekizzez wrote:
Shiva for example is supposed to be a man and he does not do ice damage

I got so confused the first time I saw Shiva depicted as a multi-armed dude.
#49 Jan 03 2010 at 12:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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11,630 posts
LordFaramir wrote:
Yeah, they have been buffed since you left, but anyway, Mellowy is definitely one of those vocal minorities. At least on my server, SMN's are @#%^ing amazing. I've literally asked people to change from apparently "more useful" jobs to SMN because SMN is more useful for some fights, and the list isn't small.

Infact, I'd like my LS to have more SMN's. There is simply so many opportunities that are made pathetically easy by throwing more SMN's at it. I can think of many times where we were down and out, and a smn or two have held onto a monster for a long time - or even killed it - where the apparently better jobs failed.

Despite Mellowy's carefully negative comparison of SMN's "advantages vs penalties", Summoner in XI isn't a bad job. Maybe it was back in the days of only one blood pact per minute, but now days it's a sick job. There is a ls called AstralFlow on my server that is literally all SMN's, and they get amazing stuff done considering they literally just throw pure smn's at a fight. Sure a lot of it is due to the amazing-ness of Astral Flow but that is a part of the job afterall.

SMN = awesome. Dunno why alla smns seem to be self-loathing, maybe it's just other servers opinions on them, but on Unicorn we love them.


Are you high?

You say that SMN is amazing and no longer like in the old days of a one BP per minute. But I can't in any way read that your groups of SMNs use wards or spirits. To me it sounds like you are either killing something in 3 minutes with astral flows, or you are slowly using 70 or 75 BPs to kill it. I can't even see you mentioning any favors or situations where you'd use them.

I'm sorry for thinking a job having 100 unique moves but uses 5 of them is broken. It isn't like any of them get outdated by leveling up either, your level 1 BPs are still great... you just can't use them due to the global timer system.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2010 7:36pm by Mellowy
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