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Armor Value DiscussionFollow

#1 Jan 11 2010 at 9:28 PM Rating: Good
95 posts
We all know that weapons will dictate what kind of 'class' or 'job' your character will represent. This provokes an intriguing question. Say you have a skill level in sword at 50 and a skill in staff at 25(this is assuming that you progress 'level' wise through using your weapon). Will switching items make you a lower 'level' and more vulnerable to monsters you were currently fighting or will armor perhaps dictate some sort of 'level' value as well? I just say this because there has to be a difference in the hit value between a little rabbit and a big dragon later game and I don't think weaponry should decide that difference. Post your thoughts and comments please!
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#2 Jan 11 2010 at 9:36 PM Rating: Decent
660 posts
I'm wondering if there will also be STR, DEX, VIT, etc values that also 'level up' as you gain skill levels for your weapon. I remember in XI, even while skilling a level 0 weapon as a level 75, you still had an advantage over, say, a level 1 person just starting with said weapon because your natural stats are higher at 75. That might be a way to add some survivability when switching to lower weapons, but I'm not too sure on that.

Armour will definitely play a role, since, again, a level 75 wearing updated gear had better defence than a level 1 player. I'm still thinking that natural stats will play a role somewhere, but perhaps not. Because then if you were in a party of new players and you were more experienced with higher stats, but with the same 'level' armour, you would have a greater advantage over the other players.

I've run around in a circle here, but you've piqued my interest on how SE will deal with this matter.
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#3 Jan 11 2010 at 9:40 PM Rating: Decent
19 posts
I believe it will be as simple as that. You will be weaker since your skills with it are lower. That is not counting each equipment individually.

Ej. Your clothing each have different stats and by switching your weapon like you portrait will lower your attack meele power but your defense will remain the same. In the other hand, your mind, probably staff related to mage, will increase aling any set os skills that staff will allow you to use at that level
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#4 Jan 11 2010 at 11:15 PM Rating: Excellent
736 posts

Well, in your ye olde systems, different types of armor where in and of themselves a Skill that had to be trained, were tied to a Stat-based prerequisite, or included pros and cons that controlled how it could be practically used.

For example, you needed to go to the trainer and spend some points getting Heavy Armor 3 so you could wear the armor you just picked up. Or you needed a certain amount of Strength in order to bear the weight of heavier armor. Or wearing heavy armor decreased your spellcasting potential by a certain amount to the point an inexperienced mage would be completely crippled by midlevel tanking armor.

I don't really know how translatable any of that is to a more modern MMO. Which is dandy, because I never really found any of them particularly appealing. But, the general idea is that armor typically is limited somehow, even in a level-less skill-based system, and there are oodles upon oodles of ways to do that.

Edited, Jan 12th 2010 12:29am by Zemzelette
#5 Jan 11 2010 at 11:18 PM Rating: Decent
121 posts
There's also been suggestions tossed around (can't remember where from) that certain types of armour may require certain skill levels with certain kinds of weapons. I think it very unlikely that we will see a mage running around in plate as a viable job/armour combo. What they may do is associate certain stat increases with certain weapons. So gladiator type weapons will see str/vit/dex (maybe) type skill ups and thaumaturge type weapons will see int/wis/cha(maybe) type skill ups. I kinda like this idea - the way I see it panning out is that certain armours have stat requirements and instead of offering further bonuses, you get a bonus elsewhere. Perhaps acc, or ability cooldowns etc.

This will put us in the need of situational or multiple gear sets again. Which I'm okay with as long as I'm not required to gear swap like FFXI. I had like four sets of gear for my thf alone (I had a tp building set, a ws set, a solo'ing set with xbow and appropriate bolts, and an o shi- eva set). To say nothing of my rdm and nin sets for various scenarios. Do not want.
#6 Jan 11 2010 at 11:43 PM Rating: Decent
4,775 posts
I think that your armor choice will boost your skills and attributes. For example, a mage tunic would increase your INT/MND stat because it's a side effect of wearing the tunic. The same rings true for those that wear a Hauby armor, your str/dex/atk stats go up. It just makes sense to me. Magic is enchanted gear. Heavy tanking armor raising your endurance and STR because it's so **** heavy. More flexible chainmail gear can build your Sstr, dex, atk etc. The type of shield you use could benefit would moves you learn to block. Say you take less damage if you're using a kite shield than a buckler especially with a huge troll swinging down his hammer right on your head.
#7 Jan 12 2010 at 12:07 AM Rating: Good
343 posts
I haven't played Darkfall since release, so I don't remember exactly which stats are tied to which weapons, but you'll get the rough idea.

In Darkfall, there are no character levels. You use a 1hand sword over and over again and your sword skill goes up, increasing the damage you can deal out with a 1hand sword. But at the same time your stats like stamina will also go up from blocking with the sword, and the higher your stamina goes up, the less damage you take from incoming blows.

Also if you crafted/gathered; mining(swinging a pick 1,000 times) improved your strength, which in battle would help increase damage output. Gathering herbs, increased your intelligence or mind thus improving your magic attack or defence in battle.

Another thing was as you reached milestone levels of battle skills (magic/weapons) more spells, skills would open up.

And as far as durability of gear and weapons, that was tied to your skill level. As you became more skilled with a weapon it was supposed to deteriorate slower than if you're using it for the first time.

Basically everything you did in game would increase stats, which would have effects on battle, in addition to the straight up weapon skill levels.

If FFXIV is going the sameSimilar route (which so far the info is beginning to sound like it may be similar to Darkfall's mechanics.), than there's your theory to think about.
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#8 Jan 12 2010 at 6:09 AM Rating: Decent
181 posts
Pugilist has five current known types of weapons: Hora, Cesti, Himantes, Metal Knuckles and Baghnakhs, I speculate that each of these weapon types will have levels in some shape or form. At certain levels of certain types of weapons you'll unlock skills, magic and abilities. Now on to ability points, these are what would be used to level the skills, magic and abilities with so that makes two forms of experience points that you'll be able to gain.

Based upon the level of a weapon like Hand-to-Hand you'll be able to equip armor so to equip better armor you'll have to be a certain level in your Hand-to-Hand weapon. This could go another way also: Say a piece of armor says "Requires Shattering Fist Lv.10", you'll have to level the weapon type for example Metal Knuckles (the only weapon type that unlocks Shattering Fist) then you'll have to level up your shattering Fist ability to level 10 (probably only used for the really specialized gear.) To go further you might be able to be better in and gain added bonuses in certain types of armor, like Scout Armor proficency Level 1-50 (either have to level it up or it's already at the maximum level). There will probably be limits in this armor type "pfoficency" if multiple types of can use different types of armor. Like Pugilist is the most proficent in Scout armor and the cap is 50 but if a Pugilist uses the chain armor type then it'll only be able to cap out at 25 (25 levels below the maximum proficency cap).

Edited, Jan 12th 2010 7:51am by KeeperOfTheStaff
#9 Jan 12 2010 at 6:49 AM Rating: Decent
237 posts
With a proficientcy based skill system I have a feeling that As we get better with a weapon we grow stat wise as well as skill. I think this will over lap into the armor system as well. Say you need 50 str to wear this heavy armour, Maybe a "Warrior" class character will be able to equip this particular item early on. However a "Mage" class will be able to wear it as well but at a later time in thier development.

So are there classes in the game? Well yes of course! Like all Final Fantasy games, there will be classes/jobs. Robert didn't explain if there was a job class. His tones expressed that there is some form of job system, but the only need for the system will be to help determine what you can and cannot use. What I did find interesting though is that any character can use almost any piece of equipment in the game that they meet the requirements for. For example, a warrior can wear cloth and a mage can wear armor. The downfall though is that your stats aren't going to compliment what you are wearing, so it is going to make you weaker.

From that interview (i believe it was during the german electronic show with the FFXIV alpha build)
it seems to be heading in that direction. What we have yet to see is what kind of attributes the armor will bestow our characters. Will heavy armor penalize "Magic" stats to the point that it would hinder efficient nuking or healing? Will cloth armor provide melees with higher evasion / parry rates to the point we can balance that with the lack of defence?

SE is stating that there aren't "levels" in their game. But thats not entirely true. It's just hidden in the equipment. I have a feeling that if you took a noob player and a person thats been in game for a year. totally naked vs a rabbit their chances of survival are equal. The high level difference comes from the time spent building up a character to be proficient with a set of gear. So the vet has the upper hand vs the huge dragon as opposed to the noob standing naked or even in decked out gear vs the same dragon.

(not sure if you ever played EvE online, but just because you fly the biggest baddest ship, if you haven't trained the correct skills to pilot that cruiser, you might as well be flying the starter frigate. You'll be ineffective. I think this is how the FFXIV armoury will work)
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