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Please tell me FFXIV will do away with farming!Follow

#1 Jan 12 2010 at 10:07 AM Rating: Decent
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I can understand the need to farm items to craft with. But I don't want another game where you have to farm hours on end to get gear to level. Almost every new MMORPG that I played you make enough in game money as you level to get max level with out the need to farm other then crafting. I am not going to play FFXIV if SE makes it another farm fest!
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#2 Jan 12 2010 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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There will always be some sort of grind in MMORPGS, its inherent, but hopefully it won't be as dull as farming to make money. It will always take a long time to get rare or high level equipment, but I hope they design a mechanic that allows you to repeat a more entertaining task.
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#3 Jan 12 2010 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
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I think it's going to be easy to make gil in Final Fantasy XIV but it'll still require countless hours of work to do. There's going to be alot of different ways to make gil so i'm sure that it'll satisfy every type of player.



Edited, Jan 12th 2010 11:52am by KeeperOfTheStaff
#4 Jan 12 2010 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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Making money in XI was too tedious in the sense that you NEEDED to farm in order to buy equipment.

What I'd like to have is some sort of balance where you could do minimal farming and be able to buy decent equipment as you level along, but you'll have to put more effort in order to get the top notch gear.
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#5 Jan 12 2010 at 11:04 AM Rating: Default
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I never farmed for money specifically in XI.

I just did BCNMs/KSNMs and on occasion NM hunting.

And I mined for materials to goldsmith with, and profited off of that.


I agree that it was harder to get money than most MMOs, but that doesn't mean that it was very hard in general, if you were smart about it.

Edited, Jan 12th 2010 9:15am by Kirbster
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#6 Jan 12 2010 at 11:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Kirbster wrote:
I never farmed in XI.

I just did BCNMs/KSNMs and on occasion NM hunting.

And I mined for materials to goldsmith with, and profited off of that.

Edited, Jan 12th 2010 9:13am by Kirbster


XIV will probably have more of a focus on this with the guildleves in place. Before traveling to BCNMs could take up to 45-1hr depending on where everyone was and how long it took people to get back from AFKs etc. Now you will just port to the location of the fight.


I also believe that guildleve raid/dungeon mobs will drop more materials and whatnot to pair with what seems a crafting heavy game.



Also, I never farmed either....just grew plants and mined.

Edited, Jan 12th 2010 12:19pm by burtonsnow
#7 Jan 12 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree to an extent. Though, in the early days of FFXI it wasn't so time consuming to get your gear. I seem to remember spending little time on obtaining gear. I blame it on deflation of crystal prices. Those first 30 levels or so the only real way of obtaining gil is through selling crystals. Back in the day crystals were worth a lot but the last time I played FFXI it seemed like the market was flooded with them.
#8 Jan 12 2010 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
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It's not true that you had to go farming for hours and hours to get gear in FF11. Sure you COULD do that if you wanted the best gear, but it was certainly not required for leveling.
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#9 Jan 12 2010 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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I hope they still have farming, just to a lesser extent. The difficulty (not hard, just harder then most other MMORPGs) to obtain gil is what made strolling through town in your new Haubergeon even more enjoyable. I think they should add more rare/ex NM drops; not NM's that you have to camp to get. For example when I got my Voyager's sallet and my highest job was level 50 I was the happiest you could be. Finding the right party and traveling all the way through Riverne Sites to fight a boss were very entertaining, but still hard and rewarding. Either way I never farmed during my time in FFXI, but still made a load of money, although I do agree there was a bit too much focus on gil in FFXI. I got my gil from:

Camping NMs (Mee Deggi, Hoo Mjuu, etc)
Taking advantage of the economy during inflation/recessions
BCNM 40 Royal Jelly

I could honestly sell a pair of O Kote during inflation for 20 million gil on Seraph, and although I haven't played in almost 2 years, I'm willing to assume it's not even 1 million now.
#10 Jan 12 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Default
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Whaa whaaa whaaa, I want to play FFXIV, but I don't want to do anything that needs more effort then slamming my face into the keyboard, whaaa whaaa whaaa


Sigh you don't deserve FFXIV, go play WoW.
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#11 Jan 12 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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lol I remember leveling my THF to 63 just to do Castle Oztroja for 50 days of playing time trying to save up for a Eurytos' bow for my ranger.

It took forever and I never reached the magical 5.5 million- 6million needed. Then my friend quit for WoW and gave me 10mil and saved me another 20 days playing time in Castle Oztroja.

FFXI gil was real hard to come by. Of course, once you had it, it was really nice.
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#12Skeptic, Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 1:20 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I am completely against this Thread. /end
#13Skeptic, Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 1:21 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Not only does this Thread Fail, but I am completely against it.
#14 Jan 12 2010 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I think difficulty of obtaining gil and how entertaining it is to do so should be separated out.
I do like gil taking a while to acquire, but I also think farming is kind of a dead-end mechanic. At it's core, it just isn't an entertaining activity. I don't think mindlessly porting it from game to game for the sake of tradition is really doing the genre any favors.

Don't get me wrong, farming has it's place. It appeals to zoners and is a game of chance that rewards players monetarily while acting as a resource control for crafting. But I think you could split that into two or three separate activities and end up with something more entertaining with even better economic controls. For example; You could introduce Gambling to appeal to zoners and provide a game of chance with monetary rewards, and control crafting resources through the Disciplines of Land (and whatever entertaining mechanics they have in store for us there).




Edited, Jan 12th 2010 3:00pm by Zemzelette
#15 Jan 12 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
I was fond of non-crafting careers in FFXI (mining, fishing, chocobo digging, etc)

I would've made a living off gardening if it weren't such a fickle thing. And having to log on EVERY day for a whole month, unless you wanted to yield a whole lot of useless crap, was ridiculous. In FFXIV there needs to be more of a science to these things, instead of planting on the New Moon and watering on certain elemental days and harvesting when the wind blows from the East or some stupid nonsense. If real gardening were like that, I suspect half the population would have died from starvation.

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#16 Jan 12 2010 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
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I started in 2004 and back in the day if you had a under equipped job. Most party's would tell you go farm and come back when you have the proper gear. When I first started I spent countless hours/days farming crystals, then bat wings, then lizard skins ect. Just to get gear so I could level my job.

Now take WOW I just started up a WOW account and so far at level 18 I didn't have to farm a single item. I made enough money to buy gear, food, drink, arrows, what ever I needed. Just from leveling in the game.

That's the way most new games are, and that's the way it should be. The only thing farming is, is a HUGE time sync. To keep you playing the game longer. I don't think they should totally take out farming. But at least make it a option, not a requirement!

(This is more or less what I wanted to say earlier I was just way over tired!)
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#17 Jan 12 2010 at 3:29 PM Rating: Default
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To the OP, if you evaluate the changes to FFXI, you'll likely see less of a grind to earn gil in terms of job leveling stuff. FoV in particular really changed that for me and I'm sure a lot of people. The reason why any of what I said was relevant is because SE is bringing over what worked well in FFXI over to FFXIV. That means Guildeves will emulate FoV, probably just improved. One of those reasons, the game is being designed for solo play in mind instead of placing a book in a random zone with no adjustments made to the mob's location.

I truly believe that the Guildeves system in general will include quests and normal solo play will also be key to earning gil too. I don't mean millions, just enough to take care of yourself, purchase food, meds, repair weapons, etc. I also think the Guildeves system will bring back instanced zones like BCNM/ENM's to make gil with other players.

Overall, gil shouldn't be as much as a problem in FFXIV if everything SE said was true. It's not a casual game if earning gil requires so much thought and research, you have to be a dedicated full-time player to figure it out. Those that have secrets in FFXI don't want to share because they know they found a loophole that hasn't been plugged yet. I'll reference the bats in Zi'tah for this. Earning gil shouldn't require an Economics major to do well. I assume SE has figured that out from other MMO's.

edit: typos, prob still have more ><

Edited, Jan 12th 2010 3:40pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#18 Jan 12 2010 at 3:36 PM Rating: Default
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hopefully questing will be a good source of money like dailies in WoW. But there will always be farming for high demand in items required to craft. So there will be a farm grind for those who choose to make their money that way.
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#19HocusP, Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 4:00 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Gil wasn't hard to come by and it didn't "require" you to farm. Farming was just the most common method people used because of a variety of reasons. SE did a good job by giving you beastman and kindred seals as you leveled, and you could easily make money off that. You also gained conquest points, if you were smart enough to get signet every time you leveled up, and you could make gil off of that as well. It wasn't as easy to get money like on other MMOs, but it wasn't "hard" either. Since it was harder than some other games to get money though it made items more special, which most people enjoyed once they finally got what they wanted.
#20 Jan 12 2010 at 5:27 PM Rating: Default
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Just for clarification, I bot, sell gil, buy gil, MPK, party naked through the dunes, power level, play as a Ranger, quit when they nerf it and complain, play as a Beastmaster, quit when then nerf it and complain, make posts for and against RMT, monopolize NMs, create elitist groups, run casinos, steal gil, hack accounts, and stare at you awkwardly with my left eye.


you forgot about inspecting people without asking first, and then doing it repeatedly when they ask you to stop. double points if the person is jp!

more on topic, i think farming is inherent in a game like this. any game with random drops will have farming of some kind. the issue at hand is how they handle it. they could make it a 100% drop off of something thats the equivalent of a boss at the end of a dungeon, or make it something thats made out of a relatively common drop, but takes a number of these common drops in order to manufacture.
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#21 Jan 14 2010 at 1:26 AM Rating: Good
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Threx wrote:

Making money in XI was too tedious in the sense that you NEEDED to farm in order to buy equipment.

What I'd like to have is some sort of balance where you could do minimal farming and be able to buy decent equipment as you level along, but you'll have to put more effort in order to get the top notch gear.



You do realize that your second statement is exactly the way 11 worked, don't you? It was never hard or expensive to get mediocre gear in 11. It was the good stuff that was in the expensive (relative term) range.
#22 Jan 14 2010 at 3:15 AM Rating: Default
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When consider farming , ppl just look into the part of making money by selling said Items. IF look more into it its much more then that:

Item sold over AH mostly consumable by:
- Direct consumbtion (Food).
- Crafting Support (Equips, Meds)
- Finished product (NM equipable drops)

Most ppl dont know what to farm end up farming more then what the market really need -> undercutting -> more time needed to reach the needed gils. while they could have farmed something else or crafted something else for the sake of AHing or NPCing

Quote:
I can understand the need to farm items to craft with.


There will be always someone who dont want to go out and kill mobs so he can get drop and craft, and rather buy it of someone else. As long as these ppl exist (including myself) farming will have its value.

Just my 2cents
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#23 Jan 14 2010 at 6:21 AM Rating: Default
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DsComputer wrote:

You do realize that your second statement is exactly the way 11 worked, don't you? It was never hard or expensive to get mediocre gear in 11. It was the good stuff that was in the expensive (relative term) range.


I shouldn't have used the word "decent" gear, my bad.

What I meant was it was impossible to get gear where people /checking you wouldn't be thinking, "you gimp," without dedicating more than minor time to farm.
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#24 Jan 14 2010 at 7:31 AM Rating: Decent
I'm not talking about gil here, but I'd really like it if the creatures you killed would drop decent wearable armor for your current level (and not 20 levels below you). You and the mob are both within a certain level range (if we even use levels in FFXIV), so why not get a decent piece of armor that you can upgrade right there on the spot once in a while? I always hated the lack of really good drops after hours of killing beastmen in FFXI.

Edit: Wow, rated down for this simple opinion? I didn't insult anybody and would certainly be open to discussion on the matter. Smiley: frown


Edited, Jan 17th 2010 10:42am by Chialing

Edited, Jan 17th 2010 10:43am by Chialing
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#25 Jan 14 2010 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
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FFXI's problem was never that it was too hard to make money, it was that it had too few decent armor options. Hauby's and Scorpion Harnessess wouldn't have cost as much (or have been mandatory by player standards) if there were lesser, respectable pieces at the same level.

For example, if you were a heavy melee you most likely went from Royal Knight's Chainmail at 55 (Str/Dex+2 Atk+3) to Haubergeon (Str/Dex+5 Atk/Acc+10 Eva-20) at 59. There's NO comparison between those two pieces, Hauby clearly stomps the RK chain. However what if at 57 there had been a body piece w/ Str/Dex+3 Acc/Atk +6? At that point Hauby most likely would not have been mandatory (out of necessity, because that's all there was worth wearing).

Also, I loved the Beastmen/Kindred Seals and BC/KSNM Mechanic of FFXI and would love to see it return.

Edited, Jan 14th 2010 11:08am by renasci
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#26 Jan 14 2010 at 11:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Overlord Chialing wrote:
I'm not talking about gil here, but I'd really like it if the creatures you killed would drop decent wearable armor for your current level (and not 20 levels below you). You and the mob are both within a certain level range (if we even use levels in FFXIV), so why not get a decent piece of armor that you can upgrade right there on the spot once in a while? I always hated the lack of really good drops ater hours of killing beastmen in FFXI.



I would rather have it where mobs only dropped materials to craft items...it just is more realistic this way and includes the crafting game more into it (like they've stated a want for).
#27 Jan 14 2010 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
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On the topic of farming; no, it should not be done away with; that's the foundation of an economy. Party A supplies the materials, Party B refines it, Party C crafts it into a final product.

FFXI's players took it further where Party D would take it upon themselves to import the refined goods and make a profit off that (think moving goods from Jeuno AH to city ones; such as level appropriate gear for the Khazam mandy parties, or silver/mythril/gold beast coins to Bastok for a hefty markup to people like me who alwasy forgot to bring coins for the SSG doors and would go to Norg for them)

It's not like that was the only source of income either. Aside from supply chain there was BC/KSNMs, NM drops, gardening, playing the AH, Dyna currency, Ancient Beast coins and even player run Casinos(even if most people hated the spam they generated).

Also, don't forget that ever present mule that would sit en-route to sky with powders and oils to price-gouge you for forgetting your own. I bet that guy made a ton of money.

That's not an exhaustive list either, the money was there if you knew where to look. For my part I was consistently too lazy to farm for any long stretch of time so I made my money off of BC and KS's. It's the sort of activity that was catered to my play style as I leveled many, many jobs and thus had a steady supply of them.
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#28 Jan 14 2010 at 11:50 AM Rating: Decent
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BCNM's were good sources of income, but I always had issues with finding a good group of people to do them with.

I would like to see a system where you could engage a BCNM type mob with 1 person and get 2 drops, or 2 people and get 6 drops, or 3 people and get 10 drops, etc etc, with the difficulty increasing proportionally to the number of players, and also the drops of the superior goods (equipment for example) also increasing and the crafting materials drop rate decreasing likewise.
#29 Jan 14 2010 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Meh, I always had ppl help with BCNMs even if they didn't have orbs, but usually they did.
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#30 Jan 14 2010 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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This may sound odd but I don't want to make enough money for everything I need just by playing through the game. Money just doesn't hold the same value in games like that. In FFXI I really watched how I spent my money because every bit of gil was important. Ideally I'd want a nice balance where you can buy most common items by just playing through the game, but if you want some higher class gear you may have to do some farming. It's all about balance, I don't want to farm for 5 hours a day to get enough gil to buy the things I need, but I also don't want to easily afford everything just by leveling.
#31 Jan 14 2010 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Farming is actually required for having a player driven crafting industry. Without farming, how would the crafters get their materials?
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#32 Jan 14 2010 at 1:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd like the simple perishables (potions, antidotes) to be way more affordable, stackable, and useful. In FFXI they were way too expensive, took a lot of space, long activation time, and you could only use them on yourself. I'm fine with foods costing some as you are getting major stat bonuses.

For the most part they were useless, at least in comparison to past FF games.
#33 Jan 14 2010 at 2:33 PM Rating: Default
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I want the Treasure caskets taht drop random items taht are temporary and only in the zones that you are in.

Temporary items are awesome in ffxi right now. Temp TP wings, potions, rememdies, etc.

Then just crafting items should drop from animals. Armor or weapons are fine to drop from other beastmen that actually use that armor or weapon. Otherwise, keep armor and weapon drops to NM's or beastmen.

On a side note: why did that crypt ghost have on a pair of slacks?
#34 Jan 14 2010 at 4:25 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd like to see something to the effect where I could Invest gil. at the guilds, into another craftsmen s craft or crafts,

they could set it up at the guilds them selves, and as someone Invests In that persons craft at a fair price, the crafter could see lower prices from merchant shops and for guild synthisis assistnce.

and be able to see and track threw the guilds a long term investment that would grow the more gil. I threw at him/her and as their skills progressed, allowing both parties to profit.

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#35 Jan 15 2010 at 8:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Darkpsychosis wrote:
I'd like to see something to the effect where I could Invest gil. at the guilds, into another craftsmen s craft or crafts,

they could set it up at the guilds them selves, and as someone Invests In that persons craft at a fair price, the crafter could see lower prices from merchant shops and for guild synthisis assistnce.

and be able to see and track threw the guilds a long term investment that would grow the more gil. I threw at him/her and as their skills progressed, allowing both parties to profit.




Investing gil would be a RMT/gil-seller paradise.

Edited, Jan 15th 2010 3:20pm by insanekangaroo
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#36 Jan 17 2010 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
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You don't really need to farm in most new MMOs, but that is usually because you settle for less. XI was notorious for forcing parties and parties implied you had to care about your performance, which in the end lead up to only best armors being acceptable. And as we all know, the price of things are proportional to how good they are. (or rare)
#37 Jan 17 2010 at 5:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Mellowy wrote:
You don't really need to farm in most new MMOs, but that is usually because you settle for less. XI was notorious for forcing parties and parties implied you had to care about your performance, which in the end lead up to only best armors being acceptable. And as we all know, the price of things are proportional to how good they are. (or rare)


The best wasn't exactly needed. You didn't need a scorpion harness to level up, you didn't need a hauby. They were nice to have, but they weren't necessary to level. Farming was fine in ffxi, I'd say make everything about 15% easier to get, that way it's not a walk in the park, but it's still a little easier than in ffxi.

The first job was always the hardest, but after you got one 75 having enough gil to buy equipment for other jobs was a breeze.
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#39 Jan 17 2010 at 7:01 PM Rating: Decent
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I like having to work for stuff. When I first started FFXI in 2004 I didn't know much about MMOs. I bought a million gil thinking that it was part of the game itself. Didn't realise it was against the TOS even as my viewpoint was changed, because it was more fun to struggle through sh*t to get stuff than having it handed to me.

If they make FF14 a dumbed down version of FF11 I will be disappointed. I liked being forced to work with others and plan ahead.

I think the problem is that people want cool stuff fast and if they can't do the 14-16 hour days the college students can do to get stuff they get upset. I had my fair share of 14-16 hour days, but later in the game (when I could only manage an hour or two a day online unless it was the weekend) I managed to get a full set of Morrigan's (mining/farming up the ingots myself) in good time, mostly because I had planned ahead (I had all 12 ingots before I had a single body piece).

Remember when CoP was hard and you got through it? It was absolutely horrible but you felt like you accomplished something at the end. Remember the Aht Urghan missions? Probably not.



Edited, Jan 17th 2010 9:10pm by Meara
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#40 Jan 17 2010 at 7:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Farming is fun. Breaks up the game a bit, is another option of something to do when you're sick of people (which is a fairly common experience).

More variance to farming would be cool. Have to do something different depending on crafting skill etc.
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#41 Jan 17 2010 at 8:15 PM Rating: Default
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insanekangaroo

Investing gil would be a RMT/gil-seller paradise.


I can only hope that sqeenix has learned from XI and has taken a pro active approach to dubious activities and has a forward thinking approach, rather than a defensive one towards its game design.

perturbs me to think options could go unexplored just to combat what you mentioned.
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#42 Jan 17 2010 at 9:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Overall, gil shouldn't be as much as a problem in FFXIV if everything SE said was true. It's not a casual game if earning gil requires so much thought and research, you have to be a dedicated full-time player to figure it out. Those that have secrets in FFXI don't want to share because they know they found a loophole that hasn't been plugged yet. I'll reference the bats in Zi'tah for this. Earning gil shouldn't require an Economics major to do well. I assume SE has figured that out from other MMO's.


I'm not so sure that I want it made easier to obtain gil. The thing about FFXI that I loved most was the challenge. Every turn had dire consequences or great rewards, and it was completely up to you to decide which. Something I found most interesting throughout my entire career is the fact that only occasionally did I see people out farming their gil. I found it pretty hard to believe that the servers' entire populous gardened their way to wealth.


#43 Jan 17 2010 at 11:31 PM Rating: Good
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336 posts
My only problem with farming in FFXI was that there wasn't really enough places to encompass the player base. I think an open world environment rather than just the large maze of hallways that is FFXI could have alleviated this a little.
#44 Jan 19 2010 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
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11,630 posts
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I think the problem is that people want cool stuff fast and if they can't do the 14-16 hour days the college students can do to get stuff they get upset. I had my fair share of 14-16 hour days, but later in the game (when I could only manage an hour or two a day online unless it was the weekend) I managed to get a full set of Morrigan's (mining/farming up the ingots myself) in good time, mostly because I had planned ahead (I had all 12 ingots before I had a single body piece).


A good MMO would have the following setup:

Fun items are easy to get.
Strong items are hard to get.


The fun items will keep you playing, while you slowly build up your power with strong items.

SE sadly put "fun" things like k.club as very rare, even though it is mostly just RNGs and DRKs that get anything great out of it. Bahamut staff is another example of "allows you to participate in ballista with -3 perp on all avatars" that requires a bit more work than just signing up for ballista.
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