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How will the solo experience be?Follow

#1 Jan 12 2010 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Will I be able to actually solo to max level in this new incarnation of Final Fantasy online. That was one of the main reasons I left to begin with.

THanks in advance for any replies.
#2 Jan 12 2010 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't understand why you would want to play a massively multiplayer game alone to max level. I think there should be some soloing but only when your waiting on a party. If you want to solo to max level there's plenty of FF games you can do that in. Every other one besides XI
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#3 Jan 12 2010 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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I think there will be certain caps you can reach via solo play, but I do not think everything will be obtainable by solo play (certain areas, quests, drops, etc)

Edited, Jan 12th 2010 3:21pm by burtonsnow
#4 Jan 12 2010 at 2:17 PM Rating: Good
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I agree with mezlabor, its a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing game. Not a single player role playing game. Solo should most definitely be an option but it has to have it limits. This is coming from someone who in FFXI leveled beastmaster the most hardcore of all jobs in the entire game to level 68 and then had to quit the game because of changes in my life. So yeah solo should be an option but not every job should be able to solo to cap maybe 1 or 2 out of the entire list of jobs there could possibly be. Solo should also take more time than leveling in a group.

Edited, Jan 12th 2010 3:25pm by TheFlyingGoat
#5 Jan 12 2010 at 2:21 PM Rating: Good
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No arguments with the above posts, however, the benefit of an MMO is that sometimes I do want to group instance. My concern is that I was basically unable to solo combat unless the mob was well below my level in ffxi.

I don't expect the gear, rewards or loot one would get in a group effort, just want to be able to enjoy the game on my own on those days when I'm not in the mood for the 3 hour instance or whatever.
#6 Jan 12 2010 at 2:30 PM Rating: Good
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mezlabor wrote:
I don't understand why you would want to play a massively multiplayer game alone to max level. I think there should be some soloing but only when your waiting on a party. If you want to solo to max level there's plenty of FF games you can do that in. Every other one besides XI


I never have understood people who disparage those who wish to play solo.

First of all...why should you care? Mind your own business. But there are a lot of reasons someone might want to solo in an MMO. You have to keep in mind that there are many aspects of an MMO that appeal to everyone whether or not you play with others. Things such as the continuous nature of an MMO...most single player RPGs you can purchase and beat within a week but with an MMO the storyline is continuous. Also, people may like the social aspect of MMOs what with guilds and such...you don't need to play in groups to take advantage of that. There's also a competitive nature with most MMOs, even without PvP, that could appeal to anyone that you don't get with single player games. Those are just the reasons off the top of my head and I'm sure there are more.

As for the OP's question, as far as I know they haven't said to what degree you can solo just that the game will be more casual friendly than FFXI...but don't take my word for it, go look for the answer in the interviews.
#7 Jan 12 2010 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Khurr wrote:
No arguments with the above posts, however, the benefit of an MMO is that sometimes I do want to group instance. My concern is that I was basically unable to solo combat unless the mob was well below my level in ffxi.

I don't expect the gear, rewards or loot one would get in a group effort, just want to be able to enjoy the game on my own on those days when I'm not in the mood for the 3 hour instance or whatever.


One thing I remember reading is that you will be able to choose different styles of guildleves based on what you want to do. Say you only have 1 hour of time, you can choose solo player leves that have an estimated completion time of 30 mins and get 2 of them done. Or say you want to focus on crafting for that day but still want to progress your sword skill, there will be a way to get it done....**** probably even a leve that will help you do both tasks at the same time.
#8 Jan 12 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Default
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go play an rpg and solo.... wats the point of an mmo....
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#9 Jan 12 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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They said you can do Guildleves solo and have people come to help you at any time. These will likely have EXP as a possible reward.

Plus from how they've been describing the game you'll be able to do a lot solo, the advantage of grouping being faster EXP and getting through some of the harder parts.
#10 Jan 12 2010 at 3:40 PM Rating: Decent
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I believe you will be able to solo to the max level but be left out on the better weapons/gear that a group can obtain by doing certain monsters or events. I hope it is this way because eventually those solo players that reached the max level branch out to play with other people after they are capped.
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#11 Jan 12 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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I hear people saying that if you don't want to party, don't play an MMO. Leveling is not the only reason an MMO exists. I like to solo level as well as party level. But i LOVE to do events and storyline with other people. Think of it this way as well, When you were apart of a LS, was the sole purpose of that LS to level? No.. that was to socialize, do events, help each other out. 9/10 time i leveled with people that were not in my LS. Let people solo level if they want to, not a big deal. It doesn't ruin the MMO experience for you. Also given the Choice i will probably try to level with a PT first, but if all else fails im not stuck just sitting there with my thumb up my.... you get the picture
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#12 Jan 12 2010 at 4:47 PM Rating: Default
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#13 Jan 12 2010 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
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I hope there is some solo content though. Nothing says fun like /sitting in Jueno for 3 hours waiting for a party invite or a shout from someone doing a quest/mission.
#14 Jan 12 2010 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Westyle wrote:
I hope there is some solo content though. Nothing says fun like /sitting in Jueno for 3 hours waiting for a party invite or a shout from someone doing a quest/mission.


/agree

At the very least have some sort of game for us to play in town (like the FFT towers game). Easily able to pause and resume game when we want.
#15 Jan 12 2010 at 6:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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I never have understood people who disparage those who wish to play solo.


I don't think people care as much about having solo content as much as they care about it being balanced. It's important to remember that MMO's are efficiency games. If solo v. group isn't properly balanced, and solo is more efficient than grouping, the ones who want to group won't be able to find anyone willing to do it. I think that is what people fear most. No one is AGAINST having solo content, they just want it balanced properly.
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#16 Jan 12 2010 at 10:10 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't mind group content. I'm just disgusted at overtuned group content that wipes out your group for a single mistake, when the content is a first mission, minor boss. Considering some of the early IT mobs in the game (Goblins, I'm looking at you.) this can apply easily to group leveling. Yeah, it's cool and all to group, but I've been in WoW raids that were more forgivable than some of the mobs you grind for XP in FFXI (Spiders, Goblins, Wyverns, I'm looking at you.) Miss a single Utsusemi cast, and kiss your tank good-bye.
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#17 Jan 12 2010 at 11:45 PM Rating: Good
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Hopefully a lot of the game will be solo friendly.

All of you who don't like the idea probably have enough time to play the game for long enough to find a party and do what you need to do. There are those of us who simply don't have that kind of free time. Making the same solo friendly would help SE's subscription numbers a LOT.
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#18 Jan 13 2010 at 12:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Miss a single Utsusemi cast, and kiss your tank good-bye.
Yeah, well it's not the developers fault that people decided to exploit a certain skill and use it for tanking. What do you want to happen? Have someone that's invulnerable to physical damage at certain times, and then when they aren't, something floats down and saves you? WoW raids are just inexplicably easy, so poor example on your part.
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#19 Jan 13 2010 at 12:42 AM Rating: Default
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I'll have to wait till the beta or the game comes out to give an opinion.
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#20 Jan 13 2010 at 1:58 AM Rating: Decent
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TheShadowWalker wrote:
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Miss a single Utsusemi cast, and kiss your tank good-bye.
Yeah, well it's not the developers fault that people decided to exploit a certain skill and use it for tanking. What do you want to happen? Have someone that's invulnerable to physical damage at certain times, and then when they aren't, something floats down and saves you? WoW raids are just inexplicably easy, so poor example on your part.


I doubt that much. Watching Paladins get ripped apart for 50%+ more of their life isn't very fun, and if you can't find the rare Paladin, you risk watching your NIN get destroyed, or potentially have a Double Attack+Sickle Slash combination destroy your WAR. Having a monster that only one class can tank without fear of serious error isn't exactly quality balancing. Neither is designing the WAR class to tank effectively only with the best gear and most optimal party selection possible.

Not even mentioning the fact that ignoring all their one and two-shot abilities, you still have to deal with AoE poisons before you can even cleanse it with MP, AOE slows, AoE attack downs, monsters going to 90% or better damage reduction before you can purge it (with the two classes that can) and all kinds of fun, terribly thought out monster design that stacks the deck in the game's favor, and says '***** you.' to the concept of not introducing a special ability before a counter is available; because I'm sure you enjoy dying of poison in the Dunes at level 14, because Lizards are the safest XP, because Bomb Toss and Jet Stream will annihilate you.

And you've barely started the game.
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#21 Jan 13 2010 at 12:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Yogtheterrible wrote:
mezlabor wrote:
I don't understand why you would want to play a massively multiplayer game alone to max level. I think there should be some soloing but only when your waiting on a party. If you want to solo to max level there's plenty of FF games you can do that in. Every other one besides XI


I never have understood people who disparage those who wish to play solo.

First of all...why should you care?


The only way I would even come close to caring is if you are getting the same XP as my group while soloing by yourself.

But really, I don't care how you personally play the game, not even 0.00001 ounce of care tbh. I think you should be able to solo to max weapon skill if you want, just at a gimped rate as opposed to party. Then you can enjoy the solo experience for a longer period of time.
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#22 Jan 13 2010 at 1:03 PM Rating: Good
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I would really like to see them find a balance between solo and PT. Make it so that it is possible to solo, but add more of a benifit to the PT experience. I hear the whole "why would you want to play solo in a MMO??" argument all the time. Do people craft in groups (prior to stupid Evolith lol)? Do people farm in groups all the time? There are many solo aspects to online games, I think people have the right to level solo if the feel like it (personally I like to group, that is how you meet people and make friends to help with missions and quests and such).

FFXI actually got a lot easier to solo with FoV. My GF went from 1-60 on MNK solo, and we just recently started to party a little more to gain exp faster. She could have easily made it to 75 with enough time spend at it... but it is way more fun to group with friends.
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#23 Jan 13 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent
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I think City of Heros did it well (before they messed it all up) It would work for this game too. WHen you enter a mission it would create mob pulls based on the size of your party, the larger the party the larger the mob pulls. You can also set the difficulty from -1 level to +3 levels. Thats the mob level compared to the mission holder. Effectively you can solo to cap in that game but its slow. The fastest best xp is always getting into big groups that run the highest difficulty missions.
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#24 Jan 13 2010 at 1:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I think grouping should get 1.5 to 2 times the rate of exp/skillups vs soloing.

I just don't want to sit in Jeuno staring at the fountain for 3 hours while waiting for a group. =/
#25 Jan 13 2010 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't understand why you would want to play a massively multiplayer game alone to max level. I think there should be some soloing but only when your waiting on a party. If you want to solo to max level there's plenty of FF games you can do that in. Every other one besides XI


Probably has more to do with the playerbase and their willingness to exclude jobs from group play.
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#26 Jan 13 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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mezlabor wrote:
I think City of Heros did it well (before they messed it all up) It would work for this game too. WHen you enter a mission it would create mob pulls based on the size of your party, the larger the party the larger the mob pulls. You can also set the difficulty from -1 level to +3 levels. Thats the mob level compared to the mission holder. Effectively you can solo to cap in that game but its slow. The fastest best xp is always getting into big groups that run the highest difficulty missions.


Big groups? So in CoH a group of 18 pugs gets more XP than 6 pugs?

I hope they make 6 the "ideal" number again, although anywhere from 3-9 should suffice for "acceptable" group XP, letting 6 be the ideal.
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#27 Jan 13 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent
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City of Heroes had no Raid function whatsoever. The max party size was 8. Xp does diminish based on the size of the party but because the encounters scale up the larger the party gets. It trades off and winds up working out better if you get larger parties. Not only do the mob pulls get larger but the frequency of high xp mobs like Lt.s and Bosses increase the larger the party gets as well. For instance if you go in a mission solo you wont ever pull a boss. You need at least 2 or 3 people to pull a boss I dont remember which. The larger the party gets the more Bosses and Lts get pulled with each mob spawn.

Edited, Jan 13th 2010 3:23pm by mezlabor
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#28 Jan 13 2010 at 2:17 PM Rating: Good
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I just hope that I can group up with friends to get fast and good exp, but when I don't have enough time for full-scale parties that there are things to solo that may be less exp, but at least I'll get something.
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#29 Jan 15 2010 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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I hope the solo experience in FFXIV will be reasonable at least. I loved playing BST in FFXI while chatting with my ls or friends and exploring the world. It was relaxing and I liked feeling self-sufficient. Solo play in an MMO isn't necessarily antisocial.
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#30 Jan 16 2010 at 1:40 AM Rating: Decent
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I, for one, would like to be able to solo for decent exp when I can't find a party.

I agree that groups should recieve more exp per person that solo play, but I just wish the difference in exp gained was CONSISTENT.

In XI, at low levels you can get a group doing 3k/hr and consider it a good party. Or you can go ahead and solo easy preys for about 1.5k/hr, which is about half of what you get from a good group. That's a 2:1 ratio.

However, at high levels, good exp parties gain well over 6k/hr, while soloing still gets you the measly 1.5k/hr. That's a 4:1 ratio at best. Comparing solo with merit parties can be well over 6:1 ratio.

The higher level you are, the suckier it is to solo when compared to grouping. I hope this ratio of 2:1 group:solo remains consistent throughout the levels.
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#31 Jan 16 2010 at 1:50 AM Rating: Good
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SE claims that they will have a balance between solo and group content so that the grind for skills isn't as hardcore in XI. I've heard of people taking four years to get to 75 without a single party for EXP and without BST, so it's not like everyone who plays an MMO does it to play with other people on that level. Soloing is quite normal, especially when you're fed up with parties and just want to accomplish things on your own for any indefinite amount of time. Time constraints may also be a reason.

To answer your question...yes, you should be able to. It's not going to be easy if that's also what you're asking, but if you want to solo to max skills on your own, I'm sure you'll find a way.
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#32 Jan 16 2010 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
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My thought on soloing......

Sometime I solo, sometimes I don't. In FF11 I always wished for more soloability because of waiting for party. Someone said that when seeking is the only time you should solo, but in 11, if you didn't find a party, you would die trying to solo anything worth killing. Of the multiplayer aspects of MMO's, I enjoy the linkshells and guilds most. Battling in parties is fun when you can find one or when you need to meet a certain goal, but there's nothing wrong with wanting to solo mobs tougher that "Too Weak" while you wait for someone to have a spot for a Buffer in their party. If you desperately need constant player interaction find a cool linkshell and make some new friends. I'm hoping that 14 will give me a better chance for soloing, I always found it annoying that fighting Even Matches would almost always end in death in 11, if it were really even I'd at least stand a chance.
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#33 Jan 16 2010 at 8:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Here is what I don't get, everyone wants to accomplish something during leveling in the span of a couple of hours because they don't have alot of time to play but when it comes to end game everyone is ok when the raids take 6+ hours to finish.

Or how everyone wants to solo because it's a pain to get a group to level but when it's end game getting 18+ people together for a few hours isn't a big deal.

Sorry but these double standards are just funny to me.
Said this in another post but it's works here too.
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#34 Jan 16 2010 at 11:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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<.<; ...and I thought it was weird in the other thread too.
Where are you getting this impression?

I can't think of a casual game that has an endgame activity that requires a 6 hour sitting.
The overall content might be around the 10 hour mark, but this is tackled in multiple sittings.

Through the power of instancing, it's possible to reserve your progress from one night to another. Casual game devs make good use of this, bending over backwards to chop these activities up into bite-sized chunks for your thoughtful consumption over the course of a week or so. There are well defined 'stopping' and 'starting' points. You are well rewarded throughout the encounter, so you don't have to get to the 'end' to make your time spent worth something. Sometimes they even go so far as to offer a teleport at the entrance that will take you to the last point of progress.
#35 Jan 17 2010 at 12:09 AM Rating: Good
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dyvidd wrote:
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Here is what I don't get, everyone wants to accomplish something during leveling in the span of a couple of hours because they don't have alot of time to play but when it comes to end game everyone is ok when the raids take 6+ hours to finish.

Or how everyone wants to solo because it's a pain to get a group to level but when it's end game getting 18+ people together for a few hours isn't a big deal.

Sorry but these double standards are just funny to me.
Said this in another post but it's works here too.


Is there a double standard? I think the problem here is that you've overgeneralized and lumped everyone into the same category. I know personally I'm not "OK" with having most raids take 6+ hours to finish, that seems ridiculous to me. By that same token I don't object to that kind of content being available for people who do have that kind of patience/time. When it comes to stuff like that I think it's up to the individual player to decide what their limits are (ala people throwing up trying to kill a certain NM in FFXI).

I'd say the majority of people who are advocating for solo content just want balance. We want the option to set out on our own and still be able to accomplish something. I don't know if it's changed significantly since I last played FFXI seriously, but "solo" back then was pretty much an exercise in futility. Unless you were BST (and even then) chances are you were fighting EP and DC for tiny bits of XP with a high risk considering the little reward (dying could actually leave you worse off then when you started). That's NG to me.

Ultimately we're not asking for the entire game to be solo, so I don't see the contradiction.
#36 Jan 17 2010 at 1:18 AM Rating: Decent
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How about viable Duo/trio-ing? In FFXI you were very limited, basically to blm and bst for doing that. Sometimes I just want to play with my friend or gf without a bunch of people on top of worrying about bad EXP at the same time.
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#37 Jan 17 2010 at 8:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Well using WoW as an example, of course, I remember the big 20 man raids such as Naxx requiring 8hours to finish within a week or your markers reset. My guild only had one day to actually be able to do this so it would have to be a straight 8 hour run.

When we complained about it the most common response from the boards was "shut up and color", raids are for hard core players and not casual. Yet these same players flame bomb any post about how people would like xp bonuses for player who want to group up to xp. I just don't get it.

As for the actually solo experience I would expect it to be like the current model of FFXI, Field of Valor helps fill the time between xp invites and still yields good xp for soloing. Also Star Trek Online has a unique feature for forced grouping. When you enter your instance zone for quest, who ever is in there auto goes to your party.
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#38 Jan 18 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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So your "double standard" is made by taking the views of some hardcore World of Warcraft players, and merging them with the opinions expressed here? That hardly sounds like an accurate representation of anyone involved.

Even as you presented it, I don't see the double standard. People who may only have 1-3 hours at a time to play a game won't have time to get a party, so they want to solo, and admit that people who do have the time to party should earn more experience. Meanwhile, some people who play the game often enough to hit endgame like to run parties that last a long time.

That doesn't sound like a double-standard at all. That sounds like different play styles from different people. I bet that for all of those 18 people willing to run that 6+ hour instance, you can find 100 players who are...offline. Because they haven't got 6 hours to devote to gaming right now, they're working/studying/out with friends. It's not like once a casual gamer hits endgame, he suddenly goes through a magical transformation into a hardcore player who never leaves his computer. I really don't understand your point.
#39 Jan 18 2010 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
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kateko wrote:
So your "double standard" is made by taking the views of some hardcore World of Warcraft players, and merging them with the opinions expressed here? That hardly sounds like an accurate representation of anyone involved.

Even as you presented it, I don't see the double standard. People who may only have 1-3 hours at a time to play a game won't have time to get a party, so they want to solo, and admit that people who do have the time to party should earn more experience. Meanwhile, some people who play the game often enough to hit endgame like to run parties that last a long time.

That doesn't sound like a double-standard at all. That sounds like different play styles from different people. I bet that for all of those 18 people willing to run that 6+ hour instance, you can find 100 players who are...offline. Because they haven't got 6 hours to devote to gaming right now, they're working/studying/out with friends. It's not like once a casual gamer hits endgame, he suddenly goes through a magical transformation into a hardcore player who never leaves his computer. I really don't understand your point.


I think you may be missing his point. In WoW raids reset every week. Most raid guilds will dedicate the whole week to ONE instance, doing 2 hours on monday, 3 on wednesday, 3 on fri, etc etc. Basically most of these instances have "wings", so on monday wing 1 will be complete. etc etc. This leaves options for casual (it gives them a whole week to finish). But as well say you have the hardcore guilds who want to do 3 different instances a week. They will spend 6-8 hours a night completing each raid.


As a "casual" player without any guild i've basically skyrocketed to the top of the game in terms of skill/damage because of these options.
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