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Realistic Drops and maybe a Grouping system?Follow

#1 Jan 17 2010 at 9:56 AM Rating: Default
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    Realistic Drops


I've always wanted realistic drops from mobs. When I kill a boar...I damnwell expect to be able to get a boar head from it. Not a 1/10 chance that it will drop it's head for me. Think about how nice that would be while leveling. You see a monster with a sword, shield and armor. You should be able to kill that monster and these items are now available to you to use.

How about defeating a lizard and the leather worker being able to skin it. A bone worker being able to loot the bones. A cook being able to loot the meat. An alchemist being able to loot the eye balls and the various other secretions alchemists insist on using in their potions. I'm not saying you HAVE to be this specific trade to actually loot these items. It was just used for example purposes.

I don't like the idea of logging points and mining points. If you go into a forest you should be able to cut from any tree. If you go into a mine you should be able to start mining in any spot. Why should one tree drop different kinds of wood? Better yet...why is the tree next to it unable to be harvested for wood?

    Grouping system


I found grouping in XI started out very well upon release, but as the years went by it was harder and harder to get into groups at lower levels and being certain jobs. Blizzard, has found a solution to this problem and I think SE should take a good look at the system they had created. It's pretty amazing.

The system itself allows you to queue into the dungeon system for certain dungeons OR random ones under a role of your choosing. Like a tank, DD or healer. Which it reaches cross server to select people for the jobs and then puts them together in the dungeon without ever having to do any of the negotiation. Upon completion of the random dungeon you gain a reward. Reward for doing work...what a novel idea. Of course this system doesn't prevent you from doing your own leg work and forming your own groups for those of you who feel the need to. It's just a better system for our gaming society in which there are far more followers then leaders.
#2 Jan 17 2010 at 12:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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If you want drops to be realistic, then you should also be willing to put up with the hour it takes to prepare and loot the carcass. Boar heads are also big, so you can only carry one at a time.

Obviously they wouldn't do that, because they have to consider the trade-off between realism and fun. They considered it with the old system too, and the uncertainty actually adds to the appeal in most cases. It's why gamblers keep gambling.

Guaranteed drops would only lower the value of those drops, anyway. It would be the same amount of work for you in the end.
#3 Jan 17 2010 at 12:18 PM Rating: Default
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For grouping, i think that SE has already mentioned something about being able to solo, group up with just 1-3 others and still get wong-chi points(new exp) equal or close to equal that of a full fledged 6 person party so i think SE has a really good solution to that. On the plus side, i think there will be many other ways to level up or get stronger sort of like quests, guildleves and such but i'm not sure how far that will go or what methods SE will give us to advance ourselves.

The auto grouping for dungeons in Diablo2 is certainly a great feature and it works perfectly for that game but i don't think that it would have a place in a big mmorpg like ffxiv, just my opinion on that matter.
#4 Jan 17 2010 at 12:31 PM Rating: Good
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Keep in mind, that if they implemented 100% drops, they would have very little value in the player market, due to the accessibility.

Quote:
The auto grouping for dungeons in Diablo2 is certainly a great feature and it works perfectly for that game but i don't think that it would have a place in a big mmorpg like ffxiv, just my opinion on that matter.


Blizzard also uses the auto grouping tool for dungeons in WoW, and it works extremely well. SE could benefit from such a system if they have an abundance of dungeons, like WoW. If they don't have as many instanced dungeons/missions/events/etc, it would probably be of little use.
#5 Jan 17 2010 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good
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::nudge Keeper:::
He's talking about WoW's new Dungeon Finder tool.
For a game with Instanced group content, Appropriate doesn't even scratch the surface. It took one of the biggest thorns in the side of grouping and just fixed it with a lazy snap of it's fingers. It's one of those things you just know your going to start seeing everywhere.

But whether or not we see it in XIV is largely dependant on whether or not group content is Instanced. Even if it is, I don't think you'll be seeing it right away. Unless they already happened to have this system in the works, it would require some truly epic scrambling on Squeenix's part to deliver for release.


For the most part I agree this whole node business is kind of dated.
The Disciplines of the Land are in the same situation as the Disciplines of the Hand, traditionally the content they're intending to serve as a main course were feeble sidedishes. They would have to transform dramatically to be considered fun and engaging activities in their own right. Who knows? Maybe the solution will end up being more intuitive?


/edit: God, I'm slow.
Just scratch out that entire first paragraph and add a "What Jubs said".

Edited, Jan 17th 2010 2:07pm by Zemzelette
#6 Jan 17 2010 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Drop rates are such a core mechanic for MMOs there is no way SE will remove it. It's what balances the persistent world. If you could get 120+ boar heads a hour it would have no value unless the recipes for boar heads used 30...which is not very "realistic".

Edited, Jan 17th 2010 2:09pm by pearlsea
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#7 Jan 17 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Default
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I know nothing about WoW so i didn't know it had that feature aswell but i do know that it has alot of instances so that makes sense. For the auto group in ffxiv it could work really well with the guildleve system since there will be types of those of every variety and in large quantities but it wouldn't matter to much since players will want to pick who they group up with instead of auto stuck with a bunch of weak players or poorly skilled/knowledged players that won't really benefit your group that much. It could be hurtful rather than helpful because some instances might require alot of knowledge about how to complete it and the language barrier, that would suck trying to use the auto translator to communicate during communication intense instances but there would probably be a certain only language feature to counter that. I feel that something like that would be ignored by the majority of the more skilled/knowledgeable players.
#8 Jan 17 2010 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Keep in mind, that if they implemented 100% drops, they would have very little value in the player market, due to the accessibility.


Well there are other ways to get around that. Such as making more items for the crafting requirement or making the items used for more then just crafting. I just like to know I'm getting something for effort. Imagine you needed 100 ribs for a chest piece. In my system you know you're going to get 10 ribs per kill. So you go kill 10 lizards. bang you get what you needed for your craft and you move on.

Under the other system you need 5 ribs. Well you go out and kill 30 lizards and you finally get your 3rd rib. Yay!! 2 more to go!


#9 Jan 17 2010 at 4:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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do remember that the percent chance is equivalent to the success of finding the item.

Example: You can go and kill 10 lizards as stated but not every lizard has healthy skin. What if you kill one and find out is sick, for example, which happens a lot in nature. Therefore you discard that skin and try again . . .

What if the Department of Commerce catches you selling dangerous items? you can go to jail! or not? :P
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#10 Jan 17 2010 at 5:10 PM Rating: Good
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100% drop rates, no death penalties, what's next? Everyone running at Flee speed because travel is boring with ranged attacks where headshots are 1 hit kills?
#11 Jan 17 2010 at 5:10 PM Rating: Good
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Not to be negative, but there is a flaw in your idea of "realistic" droprates, first of all, you are hunting with a weapons, like swords, firaga, maces and the likes. Chances are the the hide, bones, meat will be destroyed in the process, thus the random droprate is slightly more realistic, than getting 100% chance on all drops. (Within reason of course.)
#12 Jan 17 2010 at 6:55 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I've always wanted realistic drops from mobs. When I kill a boar...I damnwell expect to be able to get a boar head from it. Not a 1/10 chance that it will drop it's head for me.


Not just a "Boar head", you need to find a "Pristine Boar Head". You just got carried away and smacked the beast so hard that you crushed it's skull. Time to find another boar....
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#13 Jan 17 2010 at 7:10 PM Rating: Decent
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While I disagree with the 100% drop rate, I do agree a higher drop rate on stuff like that would be a good idea, especially things like hide and meat, may be 1/2 or 1/3 drop is good enough, 1/15 to get some meat is a little silly at times.

Surely it doesn't take 15 tries to learn the fact that "if you want a boar head, don't crack its skull with your 2-handed axe"
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#14 Jan 17 2010 at 10:09 PM Rating: Decent
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im very positive i got TWO wyvern skulls from one wyvern kill before lol (not joking)

more realistic is good, but not TOO realistic, if you party for 3hours on lizards, u will probably get like 20 lizard heads per person, then all those lizard heads would most likely go to NPC coz u will probably find thousands of them on AH already.

and if you want to be realistic, should we be able to fetch the corpse after we kill a mob and see what we could find, instead of auto drops after it's dead?
and they should make leaping lizzy wears the leaping boots in FFXIV so you could actually get them when you kill her.
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#15 Jan 17 2010 at 11:54 PM Rating: Good
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mjv wrote:
Not to be negative, but there is a flaw in your idea of "realistic" droprates, first of all, you are hunting with a weapons, like swords, firaga, maces and the likes. Chances are the the hide, bones, meat will be destroyed in the process, thus the random droprate is slightly more realistic, than getting 100% chance on all drops. (Within reason of course.)


****, beat me to it. I'll simply add that, during life-or-death fights (which is what every battle is for an adventurer), you're likely to maim the creature that you're fighting. This includes skin, bones, skull, armor, weapons and/or any other equipment. As a magic-user, pieces of the body/equipment can be frozen, burned, melted, shattered, and many other possibilities.
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#16 Jan 18 2010 at 12:15 AM Rating: Good
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Auto-grouping is lame in my opinion. I don't see how it encourages group work other than the fact that you're in a group...all this results in is random people grouped together running around mindlessly -- atleast that's how i see it but maybe i understood the explanation wrong. Seriously though, it wasn't that hard finding groups in FFXI -- the people that found it difficult were the ones too lazy to make their own groups. Plus the soloability FFXIV is going for means its more lenient with what you "need" in a party, whereas in FFXI (for the most part anyway) a WHM was necessary and to some extent a RDM or BRD, otherwise you needed to think outside the box and find people willing to venture out of the realm of routine...
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#17 Jan 18 2010 at 12:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Pretty much what I was thinking, and have you seen what water crystals do to cooking ingredients? ...... Hmm... I see potential there, we can cast flood on sheep and heat the liquified meat and sell as meat slurpies!

Here is an example for the others.

Fire magic: would incinerate and turn things into ashes in worst cases, armors and weapons would melt and warp.

Ice magic: Shattered, then there is also the problem of thawing the sucker out and getting the right choice bit's you wan't out, also. Flashfreezing, I would suspect that would to crack the bones/armor/weapons.

Wind: Well, this would slice things into ribbons, perhaps this would not be so bad on meat if you want ground beef.

Earth: The ultimate tenderizer, use now to stamp enemies arms into flat coins! or make a mess of more squishy creatures.

Lightning: Works almost exactly like fire, if it strikes metal with a high enough voltage, the metal starts to superheat and melt, and living creatures tend to catch on fire and internally boil.

Water: Liquified!!! Or drowned, but imagine this. You have a baloon, and you fill it with too much water. What happens? POP! it bursts.

blunt weapons: well they crush stuff, especially bones and dent in armor. You might then say. "Buth it's a crushing weapon, no way can it damage the skin, meat or organs" That is far from the truth, people getting smashed by a hammer tends to get broken skin, not as much from a cut, but it still happens. Then theres the the fact that you don't wan't to sell or take a bite out a big juicy hamburger with bone splinters imbeded in it.

Slashing/pircing weapon: Says itself, you still damage the skin, still can break and crack bones, can still pierce organs. when crafting, you wan't choice and pristine materials, I would hate to have a bow made of bone made with a cracked bone, when you try to use the bow, it snaps, same goes for cookin. If the recipy says 1 leg of lamb weighing X grams, then you don't pick up part of a charred leg of lamb and start cooking, if you do you will have very unhappy buyers.

Also as Deila pointed out, You are an adventuerer, you are not going to spend hours salvaging what you can from the creatures you slay, you will just give it a quick look over and see if there is anyhting that looks unharmed or easy to pick off. Arguably you with FFXIV you can chose crafters to adventure with, which still sounds like if you bring a leatherworker to the party, he will be able to salvage the creature for a creater chance at body drops off of animals, So I wouldn't be too worried about stupidly low droprates if you have a leatherworker.

Edited, Jan 18th 2010 2:12am by mjv
#18 Jan 18 2010 at 1:18 AM Rating: Good
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Y'know what would probably be an interesting addition? If there was an option for "farming" that you could switch between. An "adventuring mode" and a "farming mode", where you deal less damage to the creature as you fight it simply to ensure an increased drop rate. Who knows, maybe BEING a leather worker or skinner will actually increase the drop rates because you know what to look for, how to work around damage, and can let others that you're partied with know what to avoid, just like mjv mentions.

All speculation, of course.
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#19 Jan 18 2010 at 1:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Auto-grouping is lame in my opinion. I don't see how it encourages group work other than the fact that you're in a group...all this results in is random people grouped together running around mindlessly -- atleast that's how i see it but maybe i understood the explanation wrong. Seriously though, it wasn't that hard finding groups in FFXI -- the people that found it difficult were the ones too lazy to make their own groups. Plus the soloability FFXIV is going for means its more lenient with what you "need" in a party, whereas in FFXI (for the most part anyway) a WHM was necessary and to some extent a RDM or BRD, otherwise you needed to think outside the box and find people willing to venture out of the realm of routine...


If your still confused, WoW.com has very nice write-up.
http://www.wow.com/2009/12/08/patch-3-3-the-dungeon-finder-guide/

I agree, finding a group wasn't any harder than any of the older games I've played. But, take your own words to heart. "Think outside the box and venture outside the realm of routine", keep an open mind to changes the industry explores.
#20 Jan 18 2010 at 1:57 AM Rating: Good
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I would then sugest a more complex version of your idea, I was thinking a bit about that as well.I would then sugest spicing it up by saying, you are trying not to damage part A of the body, which might be the head, perfect for getting fangs, teeth, skulls and other such things.

You would have the options to avoid damaging certain parts of the body to increase droprates of something specifik.

Avoid head: would increase drops on, teeth, skulls, ect.
Avoid body: Would increase drops on, skins, meat, wool, feathers, ribs, ect.
Avoid legs: Would increase drops on, leg meat, femur bone, hoves, claws, ect.

Just to give an idea on how you could do it, if you wanted to make a system to increase drops on various parts.

also I strongly believe SE might make crafters able to increase drops on certain things, due to the fact they show images of what certain animals can drop on thier beastiary page, specificaly skins, hides and meat.

Here is for example an idea on how it might work.

cooks = meat and other edibles .
leatherworkers = skins and furs.
boneworkers = more drops on bones and teeth/fangs.
metalworkers = Possbily if there are golems (or worms) to smash that drop ores they will increase ore drops.
woodworker = if there are treants, they could possibly increase wood drops.
clothcrafter = perhaps increased drops of wool and plant fibers off of the apropriate monsters, and feathers.

Edited, Jan 18th 2010 3:07am by mjv
#21 Jan 18 2010 at 9:10 PM Rating: Decent
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the queue thing sounds awesome that would definitely improve the experience for a lot of people because you are right about there not being many leaders in ffxi. I was always a person that started everything up in ffxi.
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#22 Jan 19 2010 at 10:49 PM Rating: Good
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the uncertainty actually adds to the appeal in most cases. It's why gamblers keep gambling.


Not so fast. Don't assume that gamblers enjoy the act of gambling, because they generally don't. Gamblers keep gambling because they think (with their crazy gambler logic) that if they do, they'll win. If you want an MMO to play like a trip to the casino, that's fine, but that's not what most people would enjoy. Most people want consistent results. 100% drop rates would achieve this, but it's not the only way. As a simple example, "kill this three times and you will definitely get the item."

Realism for realism's sake isn't a good model to follow for games, but that doesn't mean that high and/or consistent drop rates are bad.

Further, the devaluing of drops isn't necessarily bad either. That only holds when you inject that mechanic into a game like FFXI. Sure, if you make Wyvern Skulls 100% drop, then people who farm them to sell will make less money. However, this will make it easier to for the people who need the skull itself to obtain it. If -everything- is easier to obtain, then you depend less on the sale of drops to get the things you need in the first place. Devaluing doesn't matter because proportionately everything is easier to obtain. Especially when compared to the economy in XI, I'd consider that a very good thing.

But on the subject of realism, if I'm hunting for certain body parts against mobs much weaker than me, realistically I'm going to exercise some sense and preserve those parts in the battle.

It'll be nice if we can target various body parts in XIV in the first place.
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#23 Jan 20 2010 at 5:44 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:


Further, the devaluing of drops isn't necessarily bad either. That only holds when you inject that mechanic into a game like FFXI. Sure, if you make Wyvern Skulls 100% drop, then people who farm them to sell will make less money. However, this will make it easier to for the people who need the skull itself to obtain it. If -everything- is easier to obtain, then you depend less on the sale of drops to get the things you need in the first place. Devaluing doesn't matter because proportionately everything is easier to obtain. Especially when compared to the economy in XI, I'd consider that a very good thing.


The fairly harsh supply and demand-driven economy is actually one part of XI I really enjoyed and hope follows through into XIV, and with crafters and gatherers supposedly playing such an integral part in the game, devaluing has more of a chance of crippling any sort of economic system than not, especially if leves are an easy, steady source of consistent income for purchasing items.

Edited, Jan 20th 2010 3:54am by Kirbster
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#24 Jan 20 2010 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
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Well, I can understand that sentiment, and I certainly am not suggesting that you make things so easy to get in the game that you rob all sense of accomplishment from actually getting them. However, the danger lies in making the challenge one of dedication rather than the development of some skill, which is what XI did. If you have great gear in XI, it could mean that you became very competent at analyzing the market and finding the most efficient ways to make money. That's true for some people, probably like you and myself, but not most people (and let's face it, not everyone can have that kind of success by the system's design). Most people who have great gear worked their asses off for it. *or got very lucky, or bought gil, or took advantage of the aid of others

Which is not to say that there is no merit to that. It can make people feel accomplished in that they learn that if they set goals and work hard, they can follow through and reach them. A lot of the people who really did enjoy XI will probably fondly remember that aspect of the game-- for them, it made them feel better about themselves. Unfortunately, that's a pretty redundant and relatively immature goal since you already have a plethora of goals to explore that can build other more tangible competencies. Throwing your weight behind that kind of practice in a game is like killing one bird with two stones.

Edited, Jan 20th 2010 7:23am by Kachi
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#25 Jan 20 2010 at 12:54 PM Rating: Good
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Not so fast. Don't assume that gamblers enjoy the act of gambling, because they generally don't. Gamblers keep gambling because they think (with their crazy gambler logic) that if they do, they'll win.

You inspired me to look into this a little more closely, and I found it quite interesting.

It turns out that compulsive gamblers don't derive the same enjoyment from gambling that normal people do. I think your argument applies very well to them, but you can't generalize that point to the other 98% of the population.

There can be no doubt that the average person enjoys gambling. Thirty-six million people don't go to Las Vegas each year because they all think they're going to win the jackpot. The increased pleasure that comes from random rewards has been established in psychology for a century, and it applies very naturally to video games.

If gambling rewards were certain, say if you got fifty cents out of the slot machine every time you put in a quarter, people would still play them, obviously. But the pleasure of playing them would evaporate extremely quickly. It would become like going to work. You would punch in every morning, pull the lever all day, and go home at the end with your bag of quarters... the same size every day.

Quote:
Further, the devaluing of drops isn't necessarily bad either.

Definitely not. Pretty much by definition, it's a neutral thing: in a functioning economy, the price of goods will adjust to the point where you're getting the same profit for the same amount of work. My point is that if we're choosing between ~10 random drops an hour for 1,000 gil each and 100 certain drops an hour for 100 gil each, the random drops are going to be more enjoyable.

The question of whether desirable items in general (equipment, spells, and so on rather than the loot that creates them) should be made more accessible is really a whole other issue. The developers could make gear cheaper and easier to get without increasing drop rates, and they could make it harder to get without decreasing them. It takes a complex interaction between player behaviour/population, crafting system, drop rates, item usefulness, and other things to determine the overall "flavor" of the economy.

But yeah, in general I agree that FFXIV's economy could be made a little more accessible to casual players. Elite items are still important to have, though.

Edited, Jan 20th 2010 1:11pm by Borkachev
#26 Jan 20 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Just wanted to chime in and say that Final Fantasy XI's current system has made duos and trios all easy mode with Fields of Valor. I speak from experience of duo leveling both of my accounts; Galka and Tarutaru. With Fields of Valor I am getting roughly 4-6k experience points an hour. Sometimes more and sometimes less depending on the grouping of monsters in proximity as well as what type of mobs these are. Square Enix has done an awesome job of totally changing Final Fantasy XI to be more than player friendly to casual and hardcore a like.

{Interesting Fact} Did you know that 4-6k was relatively normal experience points per hour to get to 75 pre-ToAU? Bar bones and weapon party camps. Solo most of the time or duo all the time, you are doing as good as a 6 member party back in the day.

And I can say that they will achieve great success with the same system in Final Fantasy 14. Realistic drops? Well they already show somewhat realistic ideals in Final Fantasy 11 by not allowing gil to drop off of non-beastmen mobs, as well as equipment bar Notorious Monsters. If you had a 100% chance of getting every single drop from a monster it would make a MMO dull and boring. Part of the reason most people play MMOs is because it's like going to Casino but without losing your money; only your time. Everyone hopes for that rare item to drop; it doesn't and it causes disappointment. But Final Fantasy 11 being the game that it is; or the series, you continue on until you get that elusive drop that you so desperately need.

The series and MMOs in general keep players entertained and in the end that is all that matters. It doesn't matter how it is achieved as long as the players are having fun. Final Fantasy 11 has succeeded in many ways and so shall Final Fantasy 14. I shall remain playing both. Final Fantasy 11 for those still ever elusive chances at endgame HNM gear and Salvage, Limbus. And Final Fantasy 14 because it will be the first MMO minus Aion that I've been at since launch. Cannot wait to start my adventures with friends of the old Vanadiel and someday maybe new friends of the new Eorzea.

Edited, Jan 20th 2010 2:49pm by Excenmille
#27 Jan 21 2010 at 1:15 AM Rating: Decent
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@Borkachev

I should probably save this reply for later when I can give it more attention (and figure out how to say more with less), but by then I may not have a chance.

Firstly, I haven't reviewed the research reported in the article you linked, but I'd be very surprised, even in such a small sample, if the findings applied to all pathological gamblers. Probably there are statistically significant findings, which do not necessarily indicate that pathological gamblers are qualitatively different from "normal" gamblers. In other words, some people in the one group are noticeably different from those in the normal group beyond mere coincidence, but that doesn't mean that they are completely different animals.

Quote:
There can be no doubt that the average person enjoys gambling. Thirty-six million people don't go to Las Vegas each year because they all think they're going to win the jackpot. The increased pleasure that comes from random rewards has been established in psychology for a century, and it applies very naturally to video games.


I had actually explained the phenomenon you're referring to about a week ago in a debate with someone in another thread; however, I'd say it's a misapplication of this principle to say that random rewards are more enjoyment-inducing than consistent rewards.

For starters, there is actually plenty of doubt that the average person enjoys gambling. Certainly many people enjoy it on rare occasion. Others find it to be stressful and unpleasant.

The fundamental problem with random rewards is that especially within games, they almost never occur within the same context as "UNEXPECTED HOTPOCKET." Or winning a huge prize that you had no expectation of winning. Because generally when you get something great, it wasn't truly random or unexpected-- you were looking for it, probably quite attentively. When you found it, your reaction wasn't "OH MY GOD, I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!!!" but, "FINALLY! ABOUT **** TIME!" That's because while you will get that dopamine rush (eventually), up until then you're also likely experiencing a lot of stress. Not all stress is bad, and some people will enjoy it, but a lot of people will just get frustrated and terminate the behavior, as you can commonly see in player complaints.

Random feedback and unexpected rewards are not really the same thing, and while random feedback has been supported in the psychological literature, the science that the very lax "phat loot" article you cited references paints a very incomplete picture of human motivation. (It's not a bad article. It just shouldn't be applied too broadly.)

Anyway, my point is that those same dopamine responses are best triggered not by drop mechanics, but combat mechanics. It's much better to hinge the "gamble" on the fight, rather than what happens after the fight. Likewise, randomness has a place in the combat. I won't go into all the details, but basically that's because it's better for you to have some control over the result. You can control whether you win or lose, but generally not whether the enemy will drop or not.
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#28 Jan 23 2010 at 11:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Don't forget that 100% drops doesn't automatically mean everything is easy to get, just stuff from easy to find monsters. Just because Chaos Wyrm Skulls are a 100% drop doesn't mean you don't have to go to The Sanctuary of Untime and dodge Ultimate Objects to find the wyrms' lairs and actually bring one down. It makes sense that early materials like Poofy Sheep Hides and base metals like copper be easy to get. That way low level gear and items are easy to get, and you can actually play the game for a few levels instead of farming right away.

Not only that, some drops don't make sense at 100%. 100% of crawlers aren't currently getting ready to spin a cocoon, so they won't all have silk on them. The Vicious Oysters your experience party is fighting aren't all going to have pearls, either. Many pieces of equipment can require drops like these to balance it out. The surplus of 100% drop materials can be used to make consumables, which shouldn't be particularly expensive anyway in my opinion (except the high level ones of course).

As far as the equipment you see sapient monsters fighting you with, that's a bit harder. You don't want to be falling over all the extra swords you've picked up from killing a few beastmen, and just saying "oh it's made for beastmen so you can't use it because they have weird hands" is a huge cop-out. Saying it's all such low-quality that it's useless is too, but at least then it's vendor trash. Maybe it's been enchanted through strange rituals to their protector gods and only the servants of those gods can use them? Still a cop-out, but hey, I'm trying. Plus, then you have new options, like using certain semi-expensive items to disenchant them or desynthing them.
#29 Jan 25 2010 at 7:05 PM Rating: Decent
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As mention earlier in the topic, the crafters and gatherers should have higher drop rates. They know what they are looking for and how best to kill the animal without damaging the piece they need. Leather workers have an increased chance of getting skins from a corpse.

I always like to refrence Star Ocean 4 when dealing with drop rates.(I know it's probably not the only game with this system, it's just one of my favorites) The herbalist in the party gains a skill called 'Botany' which increases the change of drops from plant type monsters. (Sorry mandies but that flower on your head is mine) Simple as that. Give a crafter an increased chance at the items he needs. It could rank up as you get higher in your craft aswell. 'Botany I' increases low level drop rates, 'Botany II' slightly increases the 'Botany I' effect in addition to increasing the medium level drop rates. This makes crafters good party members as well, everyone likes extra drops.
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#30 Jan 26 2010 at 7:45 AM Rating: Decent
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I like the idea of crafters getting higher drop rates for materials used in their crafts, and the rate increases with level of the craft.

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#31 Jan 26 2010 at 9:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Has anyone ever played Bard's Tale? It is an old fantasy RPG satire. One of the best parts about it was the items the mobs dropped. Killing a wolf for example would usually result in drops of "Red Hooded Cloaks" and "Partially Digested Cookie Baskets".
#32 Feb 04 2010 at 12:13 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
remember pulling in aquarius thinking it was a ****** steel shell then when it hit me for like 300 i knew something was wrong and it slaughtered us...then a 75rdm/nin and 75bst/whm aggro'd it...but they could handle it, it was just me(75drk/sam with my **** def) and a 75nin/sam skilling up...always hated that NM (and K.A. ********** ******* never drops that belt and you always need like 20 people..for lumin cloth YAY!))


I thought this was funny so I thought I would share it.
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#33 Feb 04 2010 at 3:13 AM Rating: Good
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I used to think the way you (the OP) did with regards to drops. I was like 'hey I just killed a Black Tiger and didn't get a single fang! Why when it clearly has two in its freaking mouth!'

And then I played LOTRO and WAR and AoC and I got drops *everytime* and I mean for *every* kill. It's to much, like someone says it decreased the items value in the player base and you end up selling the crap to an NPC for pennies. I'd rather get good items some of the time, although I do resent having to level a whole other job just to improve my chances. I much rather the 'gatherer' jobs have this advantage than one class alone, which is going to make it more realistic and I hope, make it easier for you to focus on one type of item, making it easier to craft.

Tanner - Specialized in skinning - Uses those skins for Craft.

This is how I hope to see it working and having the deciples of the land in there (as of yet no details) it will more likely be a woodsman or hunter who deals with harvesting animals.
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